|
Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
|
Re: Transgender children [Re: qman]
#21951863 - 07/16/15 12:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said: http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/i-am-jazz/
http://www.people.com/article/transgender-teen-jazz-jennings-i-am-jazz
A new show started last night on TLC, I actually watched it and did enjoy it, the main character "Jazz" is very likable. It addressed many of the issues you guys are now discussing. The show is going to be on every week.
Awesome. I saw her on ABC in a documentary, I thought she was very likeable too.
Also I had no idea you watched tlc? you surprise me more and more each day qman
|
Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
Loc: Geospatial inversion.
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
|
Re: Transgender children [Re: Moonshoe]
#21951871 - 07/16/15 12:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Moonshoe said: Nothing in my post suggests any of the things you read into it, nor do any of those statements you made reflect how I feel or my beliefs in the slightest.
You totally misunderstand what I am saying and why I am saying it, and you read pretty dramatically off-target stuff into what I am saying.
Read my post again, it doesn't say what you think it does nor does it suggest what you think it does.
I am being dead serious. I think trans people today show a trend that will continue into the future, and more and more of this kind of biological modification to match how people want / feel their identities to be will become more and more common and available, advanced and normalized.
People WILL design their own genders. They WILL replace body parts with machine parts because they prefer that identity. People WILL change their skin color and height medically. Etc.
Thats what I am saying. NONE of that suggests I hate trans people, think they are freaks, or want to deny them medical care.
What you say has nothing to do with the sexual differentation in biology.
That's awesome tho, me too.
Edited by Beanhead (07/16/15 12:36 PM)
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Transgender children [Re: Moonshoe] 1
#21951888 - 07/16/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Your comments on trans people, in the past, have helped me to form a composite of somebody who feels they are being magnanimous toward us when they are making statements about us which amount to mockery. In many ways you are worse than an overt transphobe, because you claim to be an ally even as you say things which stoke transphobia and justify our oppression.
Look, you did it again. You called being trans a "lifestyle". You don't understand that the clinical and neurological substance of transgender identity is more than an aesthetic preference. You don't comprehend the medical necessity of transitioning, that its neurological basis is far deeper-set than, say, a furry's sexual obsession with anthropomorphic cartoon animals. You think it is appropriate, in this discussion, to describe the existence of healthy trans people as evidence that bizarrely dehumanizing social changes are upcoming. Transhumanism is a very interesting subject, but it is inappropriate to draw a link here. Whether you, personally, are a bigot or not, you are speaking, at quite some length I might add, and with a tone of intellectual authority, on a subject for which you display gaping ignorance, in a way which encourages bigotry in others.
Edited by Sophistic Radiance (07/16/15 12:55 PM)
|
daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
|
|
Quote:
BlindSophist said:
Quote:
daytripper05 said:
Quote:
BlindSophist said: I didn't watch the whole documentary that OP posted, but if the five minute clip I did watch at his behest is any indication, even public broadcasting is highly prone to misrepresenting and sensationalizing the clinical experiences of trans people.
If you already admitted you don't know any other trans people IRL, then how can you claim the documentary is misrepresenting an entire group of people that don't actually know? Honestly though. You sound like all-knowing source for trans people, yet seem incredibly closed minded. You also come across with a ton that since you are trans and the rest of us are not (presumably), you are the only one that can truly have an opinion or anything to say in the matter. You even go to great lengths to "correct" the way people say things.
In all seriousness, if you really wish to change peoples' views and opinions on a touchy subject, you should change the way you talk to people and show others the same level of respect you wish for yourself and other trans people. No flames or trolling here. Just some friendly words of wisdom to help further your cause.
I know a lot of trans people online and I am under no obligation to spare your or anybody else's feelings. I don't need to watch a documentary to know what I'm talking about any more than I need your advice on how to talk about it.
For one, I wasn't saying you should watch any documentary. I was saying that if you want to change people's views and opinions about trans people, you need to change the way you present yourself. Otherwise, you literally are wasting your time and just typing online for your own benefit because nobody will take you seriously.
I see this all the time in the feminist circles as well. Feminists and trans people want correct everyone's nomenclature and oppressive behavior, yet when presented with criticism and debate it's always dismissed.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
|
Tone policing is not "debate". I will debate anybody who provides a substantive challenge to my views. Telling me to "present myself differently" is not that. It is an insult.
I present to you: the bird.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Sophistic Radiance (07/16/15 01:37 PM)
|
daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
|
|
I read the entire thread, all your replies, clicked your links, read your sources, all of it. I wasn't challenging you on that, because I think you present that side well. But yet when I presented with a piece of criticism that was genuine, you (inherently) turn it into an insult. Perhaps "tone" was the wrong word, but if you read what I said you get the point. No use making a semantical argument when there isn't one to be had.
|
daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
|
|
Quote:
BlindSophist said: I present to you: the bird. 
Have a nice day. 
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
|
Oh. Well, thanks. I don't honestly mean to make it personal, but it is. I can't help that. I just want people to stop talking and thinking about trans people in ways that justify their marginalization and oppression. That might make me seem "oversensitive" but trust me, the fact that I am willing to speak up about this stuff makes me, if anything, under sensitive.
And I'm sorry if I offended with that "the bird" comment, I meant it in humor.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 4 hours, 13 minutes
|
Re: Transgender children [Re: Crystal G]
#21952122 - 07/16/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
qman said: http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/i-am-jazz/
http://www.people.com/article/transgender-teen-jazz-jennings-i-am-jazz
A new show started last night on TLC, I actually watched it and did enjoy it, the main character "Jazz" is very likable. It addressed many of the issues you guys are now discussing. The show is going to be on every week.
Awesome. I saw her on ABC in a documentary, I thought she was very likeable too.
Also I had no idea you watched tlc? you surprise me more and more each day qman
I have to keep up with this new transgender world . For the record, I have no issue with the transgender people, if it makes them happy and they're not hurting anyone, good for them.
|
daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
|
|
Quote:
BlindSophist said: I just want people to stop talking and thinking about trans people in ways that justify their marginalization and oppression. That might make me seem "oversensitive" but trust me, the fact that I am willing to speak up about this stuff makes me, if anything, under sensitive.
I wasn't even saying you are oversensitive or under-sensitive. I was just saying that you would go a lot further in your mission just either agreeing to disagree, and when people are genuine, make a real attempt to see their point. You may never agree, but at least make the hypothetical. I did when I clicked on this thread. I was skeptical, but watched the documentary. I read your links. So that part of the education worked, but I started getting lost right when I chimed in. So really just some friendly words to help you further your cause.
Hope this comes out well. Hard to convey "tone" over text.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
|
Sophie's a lot more adamant than Rose and Macey. Rose kind of disappeared and Macey doesn't seem to give a fuck what any of you think.
--------------------
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
|
I will admit, I have a bad habit of taking out my frustration on people online. When people say that kind of fucked up stuff IRL, I just let it fly. There's no benefit to making a point of contention out of it with people in my personal environment. But it bothers me, and it sticks. When text and anonymity or semi-anonymity come into play, and I can carefully analyze the words of others and consciously prepare my own, the gloves come off and I can turn into a bitch. I've been working on dialing it back a bit, but it's hard.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
|
Quote:
BlindSophist said: I've been working on dialing it back a bit, but it's hard.
Don't. You have work to do. Embrace the bitch just as I embrace the asshole.
--------------------
|
Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
Loc: Geospatial inversion.
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
|
Re: Transgender children [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#21952207 - 07/16/15 02:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
daytripper05 said: I see this all the time in the feminist circles as well. Feminists and trans people want correct everyone's nomenclature and oppressive behavior, yet when presented with criticism and debate it's always dismissed.
It's hard because it hurts !
But you're right, they can be very hateful at times.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
BlindSophist said: I've been working on dialing it back a bit, but it's hard.
Don't. You have work to do. Embrace the bitch just as I embrace the asshole.
Oh please no XD. That's beyond bitchmode.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Transgender children [Re: Beanhead] 1
#21953326 - 07/16/15 06:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
BlindSophist said: I've been working on dialing it back a bit, but it's hard.
Don't. You have work to do. Embrace the bitch just as I embrace the asshole.
You better watch it, you might give me ideas. There are now 17 people ignoring me. I've got a ways to go before I catch up with your butthurt prestige legion.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
|
You have miles and miles to go young Padawan to get to my level of ignorance
--------------------
|
Blend
afferent orchestra


Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 2,949
|
|
I am not transgendered, and I know zero transgendered people personally. I will readily admit that clearly I have very little experience in that area. I don't know what transgendered people go through mentally, so I don't feel like I have a valid opinion, though I believe adults should be free to do as they please provided they aren't hurting anyone else. Adults being keyword.
Regardless of when sex and gender are decided in a person's life, I don't consider children to be sexual beings, and I refuse to. Therefore I do think this is a decision to be made later in life and absolutely not before puberty. I don't mean for this to come across as being hostile to transgender people, because I don't feel that it is. I'm respectful of most sensible people. But yeah, I have a chip of my own on my shoulder about children being viewed as sexually responsible, and though it may conflict with your own experience, that's not an issue I see myself budging on.
It should be illegal for any person to have sex reassignment surgery before a certain age. In my opinion 18 would be ideal, but definitely not before age 16.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Transgender children [Re: Blend]
#21953534 - 07/16/15 07:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Nobody thinks kids should get SRS.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Blend
afferent orchestra


Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 2,949
|
|
Nice, glad we're all on the same page there. I skimmed the thread and didn't watch the vid. My indolence tek is sick.
|
ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,866
Loc: Foreign Lands
|
Re: Transgender children [Re: zappaisgod]
#21954279 - 07/16/15 11:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
BlindSophist said: I've been working on dialing it back a bit, but it's hard.
Don't. You have work to do. Embrace the bitch just as I embrace the asshole.
whose asshole?
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
|
|