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BristolMush



Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 25
Loc: Bristol Hills NY
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
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Shiitake first flush -Deformed?
#21908959 - 07/07/15 09:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hi all, I am a new grower and have my first shiitake blocks fruiting. They are supplemented sawdust the Stamets way (and strain). I am not sure if they are deformed? Any and all advice is greatly appreciated!
Edited by BristolMush (07/07/15 10:36 AM)
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BristolMush



Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 25
Loc: Bristol Hills NY
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
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I am adding a few more pics, would really appreciate any feedback!
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Jumpingfish
Stranger


Registered: 08/04/14
Posts: 211
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The longer stems mean that it needs more fresh air exchange. They don't look like mutants though. So my guess it's a fruiting issue not substrate/supplement problem.
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mcchieftan
Part man, part mushroom



Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 525
Loc: Norway
Last seen: 9 months, 1 day
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Hey bristol dude, I used to live there!
Congrats on your first shiitake, I'm afraid I can't offer you much advice because we're growing Kings but it looks like your yield is very low. What humidity is your fruiting environment, composition of substrate and duration of colonisation?
Gurt lush!
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BristolMush



Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 25
Loc: Bristol Hills NY
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
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Sawdust supplemented with oat bran and gypsum per Stamets. I colonized for 2 months, browned in bag. I started seeing pins so I stripped and rinsed them and put them in fruiting chamber (no cold shock). I am targeting 60% humidity in fruiting but have been actual around 70%. I FAE once per hour right now, and will increase once room has more blocks. I only have 12 blocks fruiting in a 250 sq' room so I did not think CO2 would be an issue yet. I can increase FAE and see if it helps.
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MajickMuffin
Edible Cult


Registered: 05/28/14
Posts: 4,345
Loc: North
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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For pinning and fruiting im reading that 65-85% relative humidity is optimal.
Id get your humidity to 75%. That right there could be your problem.
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frog48
Peasant



Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 612
Loc: France
Last seen: 13 days, 1 hour
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Re: Shiitake first flush -Deformed? [Re: BristolMush]
#21914534 - 07/08/15 11:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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How and how long did you sterilize the blocks?
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BristolMush



Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 25
Loc: Bristol Hills NY
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
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Re: Shiitake first flush -Deformed? [Re: frog48]
#21914550 - 07/08/15 11:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sterilized for 12hrs at 3 psi.
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forrest



Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 1,011
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Shiitake first flush -Deformed? [Re: BristolMush]
#21914685 - 07/08/15 12:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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did you smack your blocks around?
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frog48
Peasant



Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 612
Loc: France
Last seen: 13 days, 1 hour
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Re: Shiitake first flush -Deformed? [Re: BristolMush]
#21914697 - 07/08/15 12:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, 12 hours is ok if you started counting from the moment when the core temp of your sub was at 95 C. That was my problem, I had a pinset like that and it turned out to be not properly sterilized sub in combination with a spawnrate that was far too low. What's the spawnrate of these blocks?
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mcchieftan
Part man, part mushroom



Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 525
Loc: Norway
Last seen: 9 months, 1 day
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Re: Shiitake first flush -Deformed? [Re: frog48]
#21914736 - 07/08/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Also I was trying to get at the exact composition of your sub. From my research here on the forums shiitake tolerates only a relatively low (10% bran? Someone correct me?) level of supplementation. Over-supplementation results in mutations..
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Jumpingfish
Stranger


Registered: 08/04/14
Posts: 211
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Re: Shiitake first flush -Deformed? [Re: frog48]
#21914777 - 07/08/15 12:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sterilizing has no effect on pinset--only on preventing contams. Where did that myth get started? Unless you have a contam (invisible or otherwise) that is preventing your block from pinning? That seems unlikely though. I've had some good shiitake pinsets with just pasteurizing supplemented blocks.
Spawn rate and under supplementation could be a contributing factor though. Those pins don't look like mutants (over supplemented) at all. I'm currently experimenting with a tablespoon of flax for every quart of sawdust in combination with weak coffee water.
Also cold shocking is important even if you started to get pins. It will initiate more pinning depending on the strain. Physical shocking is also important. Smack the shiitake out of your block!
Edited by Jumpingfish (07/08/15 12:30 PM)
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frog48
Peasant



Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 612
Loc: France
Last seen: 13 days, 1 hour
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Re: Shiitake first flush -Deformed? [Re: Jumpingfish]
#21914957 - 07/08/15 01:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, I can assure you that if your block is not properly sterilized you'll have very little pins when you get it out of the bag. A healthy block will produce more pins than these, even if the conditions for pinning are not perfect. Well, that's at least my experience after seeing about 200 blocks failing to pin properly.
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Jumpingfish
Stranger


Registered: 08/04/14
Posts: 211
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Re: Shiitake first flush -Deformed? [Re: frog48]
#21915116 - 07/08/15 01:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Were those 200 bags properly pasteurized or improperly sterilized? Also were all those under supplemented also as you mentioned previously? How did you isolate your findings just to the sterilizing and your pinset?
The OP can also try soaking the 2nd flush 24 hours with cold shocking, then rinsing and smacking (physical shocking--you practically waterboard and cold torture the block), also with whatever environmental adjustments. Then if he/she gets a better pinset, the other factors (supplementation, sterilization) will be ruled out. That's saying, "if."
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Sagescruffy
CH



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 2,011
Loc: PNW
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Re: Shiitake first flush -Deformed? [Re: frog48]
#21915121 - 07/08/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hey op, what do you mean "I FAE once per hour"? I was under the impression fresh air exchange is supposed to be a constant.
-------------------- Love.  
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frog48
Peasant



Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 612
Loc: France
Last seen: 13 days, 1 hour
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Re: Shiitake first flush -Deformed? [Re: Jumpingfish]
#21915326 - 07/08/15 02:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ok, after screwing up shiitake for about a year now I'm more or less convinced the key to growing them successfully is your sterilization method, your spawnrate and to a lesser extend your subformula. In my opinion pasteurization for shiitake is not a viable option if your aim is kilo's and not mold.
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BristolMush



Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 25
Loc: Bristol Hills NY
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
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Re: Shiitake first flush -Deformed? [Re: forrest]
#21915427 - 07/08/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes, spanked them during the rinse when I took them out of the bags.
Edited by BristolMush (07/08/15 03:45 PM)
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Jumpingfish
Stranger


Registered: 08/04/14
Posts: 211
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Re: Shiitake first flush -Deformed? [Re: frog48]
#21915475 - 07/08/15 03:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
frog48 said: Ok, after screwing up shiitake for about a year now I'm more or less convinced the key to growing them successfully is your sterilization method, your spawnrate and to a lesser extend your subformula. In my opinion pasteurization for shiitake is not a viable option if your aim is kilo's and not mold.
No mold yet from pasteurizing shiitake blocks (193 more grows to go until 200 though. Not sure if I ever will grow that many). I don't even use those filter bags. I just use square plastic gallon ice cream containers. After 2 flushes, they go outside. Outside is where my problems are--with the slugs. Any good French recipes for slugs or escargot / snails without the shells? There's a plague of them in my location.
Anyway, I apologize going off topic.
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poofterFroth
Feel Like A Stranger



Registered: 03/15/14
Posts: 1,012
Last seen: 25 days, 1 hour
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Re: Shiitake first flush -Deformed? [Re: frog48]
#21915508 - 07/08/15 03:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
frog48 said: Ok, after screwing up shiitake for about a year now I'm more or less convinced the key to growing them successfully is your sterilization method, your spawnrate and to a lesser extend your subformula. In my opinion pasteurization for shiitake is not a viable option if your aim is kilo's and not mold.
I'm interested in what your sterilization process and substrates are. The few blocks I've pasteurized seem to colonize faster then my sterilized blocks..but I lost track of them after opening the bags so I can't comment on the fruitings...
I've been getting some shitty pinsets like OP, but attributed it to high temps. and probably low humidity. Seems that some of my more "exposed" blocks get the bad pinsets, while other blocks that are more crowded together create a better micro-climate on the cropping surface pin really well.
BristolMush, what temps. are you fruiting at?
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frog48
Peasant



Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 612
Loc: France
Last seen: 13 days, 1 hour
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Re: Shiitake first flush -Deformed? [Re: poofterFroth]
#21917739 - 07/09/15 01:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm sterilizing with this for about 18 hours, every run 40 bags (2.6 kg wet weight) Substrate: 2/3 sawdust (chestnut), 1/3 woodcurls from the local sawmill. I'm supplementing with 10 % bran and I add about 3% gypsum.

I'm experimenting with ash wood chips that we made on the property this winter with a shredder. First batches are incubating now. I got 10 bags out of 80 that got trich. May be the ash chips are a bit too funky? The ones that are ok are looking great, pop corning and browning after six weeks. As I said earlier key IMO is sterilization time. Before I ran the boiler for 8/9 hours at 2/3 psi. After discussion and consultation with several members of this community we brought up sterilization times and spawn rate. Although yields are not perfect yet (between 12 and 17 % aim = 20 %) things look much better then a year ago. Crop allows me to do two markets a week. Still having problems with oysters though but I'll do a write up on that in a separate thread soon because I'm squatting Bristol's thread. Poofter I can't really comment on pasteurization because I didn't even try it for shiitake. The only thing I know is that my blank bags last between 14 and 26 days before contaminating with trich. Shiitake is a slow coloniser and I doubt that you manage to have a pateurized bag colonized within the time frame of two weeks, because that's all you have. But may be I'm wrong, may be you can get a away with it when all conditions are perfect. But I still think it's not viable for a commercial operation. Bristol we're very off topic here. I apologize! Your fruiting temp might be an issue if it's not sterilization. Shiitake should fruit much cooler than incubation temp. With the high temps in Europe I'm having pinning problems too because there's not enough difference between incubation temp and fruiting temp.
I'm dunking the blocks to give them a coldshock wich I normally don't do. When they come out of the bag they go straight into the fruiting room.
By the way, my experience is that if you have in vitro pins after two months of incubation it's not a good sign. At least for the strain I'm growing. If I got pins before 21/2 months in the bag it's usually a sign that there's a contamination. My theory is that shiitake starts reproducing as a defense. But that's only a theory! Good luck for your second flush Bristol! Hope it cools down a bit!


This is a pic of two shiitake bags. Left one is not properly sterilized with a spawn rate of 4%, right one is sterilized 18 hours at a spawn rate of 10 % with home spawned rye grain (mycelia strain). Looks much better doesn't it?
Jumping Fish I'm a Dutch refugee living in France. Dutch cuisine is in general very very bad, but I could sent you recipes. Escargot with oysters mmmmm...
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