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OfflineAlmond Flour
...get off my lawn!
Male


Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! * 1
    #21908632 - 07/07/15 08:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Every single time some state tried to move forward with Marijuana....the federal government showed up with automatic assalt rifles willing to squash any states move against the federal government and their laws.

With this whole cake issue in Oregon, they have violated the constitution. They have squashed a couples right to free speech with a gag order, and have ruined their business because of the homosexual agenda.

I demand that the federal government respond accordingly. This is now about something else entirely. This is about our freedoms. This couple did nothing wrong and now because a couple of homosexuals went.....cried because their "feelings were hurt" and have caused devastation against a couple who were simply practicing their faith. The Oregon government pissed all over our basic rights as Americans

What are the odds Obama will protect our constitution?


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:


Edited by Almond Flour (07/07/15 08:04 AM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Almond Flour] * 1
    #21908641 - 07/07/15 08:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:greatjob:

some cake idiot's didn't want to put some penises on their customer's cake so some couple decided to draw attention to their shoddy business practices, and you're mad at them?

oh right. well, the dumb cake maker's probably should have just worked with and done what their customer's wanted, otherwise, bad publicity is sure to follow...especially if they won't do "gay weddings" (cakes, that is). that's frankly putting out a message that they don't care about their business and that they're gonna treat people like crap whenever it suits their religious belief's.

i hope it got brought to court and they got told to shut the fuck up, and i hope their business suffer's for it.


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InvisibleshLong
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Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 25,330
Loc: 'sconsin Flag
Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21908650 - 07/07/15 08:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

As soon as they're willing to not cater to anyone who eats shellfish, has had a divorce, wears mixed fiber clothing, and/or has a garden with more than one type of plant in it, then I'll take them seriously...
They'll be out of business, but at least then I'd respect their religious freedoms since they're not discriminating.


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OfflineAlmond Flour
...get off my lawn!
Male


Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 11,340
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: shLong]
    #21908655 - 07/07/15 08:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:


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OfflineAlmond Flour
...get off my lawn!
Male


Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Almond Flour]
    #21908657 - 07/07/15 08:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

This bullshit is PROOF. This isnt about gay marriage. Its about...

"You better get on board with the moral revolution.....Or else" \


Fuck you Oregon


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:


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InvisibleshLong
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Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 25,330
Loc: 'sconsin Flag
Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Almond Flour]
    #21908658 - 07/07/15 08:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Why pick what passages of that stupid fucking chapter you choose to believe?
Don't you have a child out of wedlock?


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: shLong] * 2
    #21908690 - 07/07/15 08:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Almond's entire life is out of wedlock.


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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Almond Flour] * 1
    #21908759 - 07/07/15 08:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

That's why you have it plastered across the front door, " we have a right to refuse service to anyone". They don't have to make a fucking cake for someone of they don't want to. This is America, and they are running a business; they aren't slaves.


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InvisibleShins
Fun guy
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Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420]
    #21908772 - 07/07/15 08:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

greencrush420 said:
That's why you have it plastered across the front door, " we have a right to refuse service to anyone". They don't have to make a fucking cake for someone of they don't want to. This is America, and they are running a business; they aren't slaves.




Not anymore

the business was ordered to pay 135, 000 $ in damages to the gay couple.

Priests now have to perform gay marriages too or else.

Why do gays get these special privileges


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Shins]
    #21908781 - 07/07/15 09:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Fuck that
Customer: Make me a cake.
Business: No
Customer: I'm pressing charges then!
Govt: You must pay customer $135,000 in fines.
Fines for what? What fucking law was broken? What crime are you charging me with, bitch?

The gay marriage bullshit is a whole nother can of worms. I'm not even going to dip into the separation of church and state problem, in this thread.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420] * 1
    #21908790 - 07/07/15 09:07 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

greencrush420 said:
That's why you have it plastered across the front door, " we have a right to refuse service to anyone". They don't have to make a fucking cake for someone of they don't want to. This is America, and they are running a business; they aren't slaves.



that's for people who are unruly. don't give us any of that "freedom" crap. you wanna know freedom? you deny someone based on their race or creed, because you're free to, right? well they're also free to bad mouth your business, and get in as much in edge-wise as they can, and if the business suffer's well, you can blame freedom for that.

you don't deny someone's procuring of goods and services, because they're gay. it's not only immensely

stupid

idiotic

assholeish

baseless

retarded

asinine

foolish

unintelligent

ridiculous

but it's also just plain uncivil.

Quote:

greencrush420 said:

The gay marriage bullshit is a whole nother can of worms. I'm not even going to dip into the separation of church and state problem, in this thread.


because you can't.

you can't deny someone good and services based on their race or creed. we've ended segregation. you need to get a lead on this whole thinking thing.


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Almond Flour]
    #21908791 - 07/07/15 09:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

In each case, hasn't federal law superseded state law?


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Shins]
    #21908793 - 07/07/15 09:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:


Why do gays get these special privileges



because they shouldn't be denied those privileges that everyone else has, just because they're gay. priest's marry people, it's their fucking job.

America the Whiny.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Posts: 34,247
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma] * 2
    #21908804 - 07/07/15 09:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

No private sector business owner should ever have to do business with anyone they do not wish to.

It's better to know who the bigots are so you can take your money elsewhere.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibletrampis
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #21908821 - 07/07/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

So, they wouldn't make someone a cake because they were gay and according to their religious beliefs being gay is sinful... ?

I'm pretty sure that gluttony is mentioned more often in the bible than homosexuality.

Maybe this was just God's way of punishing their business that is essentially built on sin.

:shrug:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21908829 - 07/07/15 09:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

sure they shouldn't HAVE TO. the price of freedom. people are FREE to be segregating 18th century bigots with innate complex's of the human mind's inability to reason.

but people should certainly know to take their money somewhere else...and  stupid thing is if that ever happened, you'd see it in the news "this business poor business, all because of this new thing called Gayness! come support this local business because of what the gay people did to it!"

"oh yeah, i hate gays and this new propaganda, so i'll go and support this confectionery for the right's to people not having to like or support gaydom in America!"

i don't think that they should have been fined, but i certainly think that their business deserves to suffer, if they aren't going to cater to everyone like a business should.


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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21908835 - 07/07/15 09:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:frankly:
That's tough shit. If they want a cake that bad, they are FREE to buy it somewhere else. I damn well could have a debate on seperation of church and state, but you are clearly such an intellectually undeveloped, ignorant imbecile,  that I would be wasting my time and effort by trying to change your point of view. You want the Government in your business, restricting your rights, and poking their nose where it doesn't belong? Good for you. Why are you a member of a site, where almost everybody, is against the oppressive level of control that the government exerts over our day to day lives? Are you just here to troll? 50 thousand posts, and all you can do is troll?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21908851 - 07/07/15 09:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
"oh yeah, i hate gays and this new propaganda, so i'll go and support this confectionery for the right's to people not having to like or support gaydom in America!"




You have to take the bad with the good. Businesses that discriminate likely won't do well long term. In the mean time, you've given the bigots a cause.

I don't want my money going to closet bigots. You still don't force people to do business with anyone.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420]
    #21908890 - 07/07/15 09:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

greencrush420 said:
:frankly:
That's tough shit. If they want a cake that bad, they are FREE to buy it somewhere else. I damn well could have a debate on separation of church and state, but you are clearly such an intellectually undeveloped, ignorant imbecile,  that I would be wasting my time and effort by trying to change your point of view. You want the Government in your business, restricting your rights, and poking their nose where it doesn't belong? Good for you. Why are you a member of a site, where almost everybody, is against the oppressive level of control that the government exerts over our day to day lives? Are you just here to troll? 50 thousand posts, and all you can do is troll?



:blah:

they got charges brought on them, which shouldn't have happened, and i explained that already. did this gay couple have any say in this fine? i mean, they didn't sue them. no, what they did was report them (however they did so, doesn't really bother me considering i hate bigots anyway), and guess what, it appears there are anti-discrimination laws in Ireland (this isn't even America; so many times i'm told to fuck off to Canada from here, but lookie loo look at this... an American debate is important for Ireland right?) "the rule of law says there shall be no discrimination in the commercial sphere", and not only that (which i was frankly unaware of; and anti-discrimination laws is a touchy subject) but apparently the idiot baker's were in contractual agreement with the couple to make the cake, and they just didn't anyway.

now look, Sparky. if they were in a contract with them, the couple could have sued anyway...but they didn't...what happened is the media got a hold of this, and now everyone's got their say AND this bakery has to face discrimination charges (same thing would apply to a white person or a Cherokee Indian or whomever else being denied from a African or Asian establishment), and they have to because they discriminated against someone in their business. commerce cannot be denied when you're in business, first off, that's basically 101. but let alone the inherent idiocy of it all, guess what else, they'll be lucky if they don't get fined, but even if they get let off those charges, the couple can still sue. they were obliged to make the cake when they made the agreement to the customer to make it.

now peddle off now.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21908895 - 07/07/15 09:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:

You have to take the bad with the good. Businesses that discriminate likely won't do well long term. In the mean time, you've given the bigots a cause.

I don't want my money going to closet bigots. You still don't force people to do business with anyone.



that's just it though, OP and other's are just gonna use this ammunition, when it's not even pertinent to anything other than their agenda which isn't even in the sphere's of business... it's just politics. stupidity.


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Invisibletrampis
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21908903 - 07/07/15 09:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)



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InvisibleShins
Fun guy
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Registered: 09/15/04
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21908906 - 07/07/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

People should be able to discriminate in commerce all they want.  That is obviously a stupid law.

breaking a contract is not good though.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Shins]
    #21908918 - 07/07/15 09:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

sure they should, anti-discrimination law's, like i said are touchy, i mean, even in and of itself, it's a touchy sort of law that shouldn't be necessary. surely though it's been necessitated.

and they did make a contract so, even if they weren't fined, they'd still get sued. good. fuck them and their old dried up ways.


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Shins]
    #21909008 - 07/07/15 10:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

greencrush420 said:
That's why you have it plastered across the front door, " we have a right to refuse service to anyone". They don't have to make a fucking cake for someone of they don't want to. This is America, and they are running a business; they aren't slaves.




Not anymore

the business was ordered to pay 135, 000 $ in damages to the gay couple.

Priests now have to perform gay marriages too or else.

Why do gays get these special privileges




I hadn't heard anything about this story but if this is ture, that is OUTRAGEOUS! 

A persn has a righ tnot ot make a fucking cake if he doesn't want to.  If this bakery was part of a corporation, then I would say they would have to do what the customer ordered, because a corporation doesn't have a or any other thoughts other than "make money".  But if it's just a mom and pop bakery and they don't want to make a cake for ANY FUCkING REASON, they shouldn't have to.  OUTRAGEOUS!

And what fucking damages?  You got an article or something?


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21909011 - 07/07/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I couldn't read a word of that. Re-type, coherently, please.

I did catch some shit about Ireland. How are you bringing Ireland into the conversation? This happened in the United States, therefore, Irish law does not apply.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420]
    #21909061 - 07/07/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

you know, i forgot OP mentioned Oregon,  unfortunately however he didn't post a link to the story, so i found a link at the top of the page on Google of the exact same story, just one in Ireland. :grin: which i find amusing but...seriously if you can't read simple English...sorry.

but i'll give a cliff notes version if you can't read my previous posts.

1: business do not operate to turn down customer's; it's stupid. that's first and foremost

2: i do not know about this story's detail's more, but i'll assume they were contractually obliged to make the cake; either way "Under Oregon law," the state agency said in a statement, "Oregonians cannot be denied service based on sexual orientation. The law provides an exemption for religious organizations and schools, but does not allow private business owners to discriminate based on sexual orientation, just as they cannot legally deny service based on race, sex, age, veteran status, disability or religion.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Shins]
    #21909207 - 07/07/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

greencrush420 said:
That's why you have it plastered across the front door, " we have a right to refuse service to anyone". They don't have to make a fucking cake for someone of they don't want to. This is America, and they are running a business; they aren't slaves.




Not anymore

the business was ordered to pay 135, 000 $ in damages to the gay couple.

Priests now have to perform gay marriages too or else.

Why do gays get these special privileges




Special privileges? Marriage only for straight people is a special privilege. Exemption from anti-discrimination laws for religious reasons is a special privilege.

If you own a business, you must comply with the law, including ones that mandate that you cannot discriminate based on certain traits or characteristics. You are free to not operate a business if you are unwilling to comply with the law.

And you are totally full of shit about that priest thing. Source?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #21909229 - 07/07/15 10:59 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

greencrush420 said:
That's why you have it plastered across the front door, " we have a right to refuse service to anyone". They don't have to make a fucking cake for someone of they don't want to. This is America, and they are running a business; they aren't slaves.




Not anymore

the business was ordered to pay 135, 000 $ in damages to the gay couple.

Priests now have to perform gay marriages too or else.

Why do gays get these special privileges




I hadn't heard anything about this story but if this is ture, that is OUTRAGEOUS! 

A persn has a righ tnot ot make a fucking cake if he doesn't want to.  If this bakery was part of a corporation, then I would say they would have to do what the customer ordered, because a corporation doesn't have a or any other thoughts other than "make money".  But if it's just a mom and pop bakery and they don't want to make a cake for ANY FUCkING REASON, they shouldn't have to.  OUTRAGEOUS!

And what fucking damages?  You got an article or something?




A persn has a righ tnot ot make a fucking cake if he doesn't want to.
Not they don't.

Every state in the country has public accommodation statues that say business cannot discriminate based on race, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, and others. Some states cover sexual orientation, some don't. There is nothing radical about these laws,  and what happened to this business resulted from them breaking a law that every business in the country is obliged to follow.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909253 - 07/07/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

greencrush420 said:
That's why you have it plastered across the front door, " we have a right to refuse service to anyone". They don't have to make a fucking cake for someone of they don't want to. This is America, and they are running a business; they aren't slaves.




Not anymore

the business was ordered to pay 135, 000 $ in damages to the gay couple.

Priests now have to perform gay marriages too or else.

Why do gays get these special privileges




Special privileges? Marriage only for straight people is a special privilege. Exemption from anti-discrimination laws for religious reasons is a special privilege.

If you own a business, you must comply with the law, including ones that mandate that you cannot discriminate based on certain traits or characteristics. You are free to not operate a business if you are unwilling to comply with the law.

And you are totally full of shit about that priest thing. Source?





Priests refusing is discrimination too.

The law is stupid.  Buisinesses shoukd be ablt to discriminate all they want.  If someone asks me to renovate their deck I should be able to say no for any reason I want.  I shoikdnt be obligated to to business with anyone.


Have you ever heard of a discriminatory lawsuit from a straight couple before?  This is certainly special privileges,  just like how my city lines the street with rainbow flags and paints the crosswalks rainbow.  Those are special privileges.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909262 - 07/07/15 11:07 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

§ 659A.400¹
Place of public accommodation defined
(1) A place of public accommodation, subject to the exclusions in subsection (2) of this section, means:
(a) Any place or service offering to the public accommodations, advantages, facilities or privileges whether in the nature of goods, services, lodgings, amusements, transportation or otherwise.
(b) Any place that is open to the public and owned or maintained by a public body, as defined in ORS 174.109 (Public body defined), regardless of whether the place is commercial in nature.
(c) Any service to the public that is provided by a public body, as defined in ORS 174.109 (Public body defined), regardless of whether the service is commercial in nature.

§ 659A.403¹
Discrimination in place of public accommodation prohibited
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, all persons within the jurisdiction of this state are entitled to the full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of any place of public accommodation, without any distinction, discrimination or restriction on account of race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, marital status or age if the individual is 18 years of age or older.
(2) Subsection (1) of this section does not prohibit:
(a) The enforcement of laws governing the consumption of alcoholic beverages by minors and the frequenting by minors of places of public accommodation where alcoholic beverages are served; or
(b) The offering of special rates or services to persons 50 years of age or older.
(3) It is an unlawful practice for any person to deny full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of any place of public accommodation in violation of this section. [Formerly 30.670; 2003 c.521 §1; 2005 c.131 §1; 2007 c.100 §5]


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909267 - 07/07/15 11:09 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I know its the law.

the law is stupid.

it being law doesn't mean its right.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Shins]
    #21909277 - 07/07/15 11:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

If someone asks me to renovate their deck I should be able to say no for any reason I want.  I shoikdnt be obligated to to business with anyone.





dude you have the right deny someone asking you to build them a deck, whether under the table or not, it's all fine and dandy... (well not literally) this applies to PUBLIC business outlets... JESUS.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909280 - 07/07/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


Priests refusing is discrimination too.

The law is stupid.  Buisinesses shoukd be ablt to discriminate all they want.  If someone asks me to renovate their deck I should be able to say no for any reason I want.  I shoikdnt be obligated to to business with anyone.


Have you ever heard of a discriminatory lawsuit from a straight couple before?  This is certainly special privileges,  just like how my city lines the street with rainbow flags and paints the crosswalks rainbow.  Those are special privileges.




Nobody is making priests marry gay people. Gimme a break. Religious organizations are exempt from public accommodation laws.

You know these laws go both ways? It doesn't say you can't discriminate against gay people. It says you can't based on sexual orientation. Straight people are covered just as much as gay people.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909289 - 07/07/15 11:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The problem isn't simply saying i can't make you a cake or do your deck. The problem is saying I can't make a cake because you're gay. Or catholic. Or Pakistani. Or black.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909440 - 07/07/15 12:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Using force to enact their desired social changes, renders the forcers no better morally than the forcees.

Plus, it feeds the hatred of those forced. Laws like that might get you your cake, but it makes the problem worse.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909451 - 07/07/15 12:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

yes, absolutely right. i was thinking the same thing; well put LDS.

it's basically a political motive for these shenanigan's.

but unfortunately, those, the so-called bigots, they embrace the same motivation, a political motivation against them...so how can this be solved?


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21909475 - 07/07/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
so how can this be solved?




Time.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909484 - 07/07/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Using force to enact their desired social changes, renders the forcers no better morally than the forcees.

Plus, it feeds the hatred of those forced. Laws like that might get you your cake, but it makes the problem worse.




These laws exist because discrimination happens. Yah, maybe it's easy to find another bakery. But, what if every bakery doesn't want to serve gays. What if a restaurant doesn't let black people in. Unfortunately, the free market does not solve every problem and without legal recourse, there can be (and have been) situations where entire groups of people are essentially second class citizens.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909490 - 07/07/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

what about the fact that this absurd religious dogma is encased in our culture seemingly in stone, and that gays and lesbians have no dogma and simply have no other choice to stand up for themselves, and can't rely on anyone else to help them but their own sexes and genders (a terrible syndicate of coalition's to even deal with from the inside, let alone from the perspective held on them already in society); how can that be solved? time? how can time erase dogma?


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21909521 - 07/07/15 12:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Damn,
I am always surprised how troubled most peoples minds are with petty shit,
how conflicted peoples minds are, to have a problem with anyone who isn't negatively effected you life,


I just find it so petty,


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909525 - 07/07/15 12:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Using force to enact their desired social changes, renders the forcers no better morally than the forcees.

Plus, it feeds the hatred of those forced. Laws like that might get you your cake, but it makes the problem worse.




These laws exist because discrimination happens. Yah, maybe it's easy to find another bakery. But, what if every bakery doesn't want to serve gays. What if a restaurant doesn't let black people in. Unfortunately, the free market does not solve every problem and without legal recourse, there can be (and have been) situations where entire groups of people are essentially second class citizens.




That doesn't change a word of what I said.

I despise bigots, homophobes, sexists and racists. I despise those who use force on them.

Your examples don't change the fact that force isn't the way.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: SunnyD]
    #21909529 - 07/07/15 12:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

AddyZomeD said:
Damn,
I am always surprised how troubled most peoples minds are with petty shit,
how conflicted peoples minds are, to have a problem with anyone who isn't negatively effected you life,


I just find it so petty,



yeah, it's sick.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21909532 - 07/07/15 12:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
what about the fact that this absurd religious dogma is encased in our culture seemingly in stone, and that gays and lesbians have no dogma and simply have no other choice to stand up for themselves, and can't rely on anyone else to help them but their own sexes and genders (a terrible syndicate of coalition's to even deal with from the inside, let alone from the perspective held on them already in society); how can that be solved? time? how can time erase dogma?




The old dogs die off. In the meantime, not having these absurd laws removes one of the legs the forcees are standing on.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21909544 - 07/07/15 12:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Well, as far as I know, gay people didn't have a lot of trouble getting cakes until recently, so in some ways we are regressing.

Read the court order. The people who own the bakery not only refused service AFTER the gay couple had arranged to have the cake made, they bakery then went public stating that they do not serve gay people. One of the bakery owners told one of the gay customers "your children are an abomination."

http://www.oregon.gov/boli/SiteAssets/pages/press/Sweet%20Cakes%20FO.pdf


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909548 - 07/07/15 12:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

maybe there is a time for the laws to change. but this has all resulted from desperation. i don't understand how people cannot understand this concept. the pure misanthropy to people by idiot's because of their insanity and their stupidity has done it's damage.

but as i said, perhaps the time is coming for the laws to change. since the playing field is more equal now.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909549 - 07/07/15 12:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

So what? They should be free to serve who they wish and to not serve those who they don't wish.

Those who are disgusted by their behavior are free to not give their money to homophobes.

Why would you be in favor of giving money/support to assholes?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909551 - 07/07/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Well, as far as I know, gay people didn't have a lot of trouble getting cakes until recently, so in some ways we are regressing.

Read the court order. The people who own the bakery not only refused service AFTER the gay couple had arranged to have the cake made, they bakery then went public stating that they do not serve gay people. One of the bakery owners told one of the gay customers "your children are an abomination."

http://www.oregon.gov/boli/SiteAssets/pages/press/Sweet%20Cakes%20FO.pdf



yeah that's my main point. it's pure stupidity, and then moreso, they're agreement was in place...they didn't follow through. there is a civil case already, regardless of gay anything or no.

then that tidbit is very telling as well. that frame of mind is certainly abominable. like their brain's have been drilled hole's in.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21909552 - 07/07/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
maybe there is a time for the laws to change. but this has all resulted from desperation. i don't understand how people cannot understand this concept. the pure misanthropy to people by idiot's because of their insanity and their stupidity has done it's damage.

but as i said, perhaps the time is coming for the laws to change. since the playing field is more equal now.




No, this has resulted from force. People don't like being told what to do. A lesson the government has yet to learn.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909571 - 07/07/15 12:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
So what? They should be free to serve who they wish and to not serve those who they don't wish.

Those who are disgusted by their behavior are free to not give their money to homophobes.

Why would you be in favor of giving money/support to assholes?



but under an agreement they were obliged to make the cake...they should have made the cake and swallowed their pride.

did they at least pay them back, i wonder.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909606 - 07/07/15 12:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:

No, this has resulted from force. People don't like being told what to do. A lesson the government has yet to learn.



sure, it's force, it's reckless. but they had to subsist by force during much of modern society and then some...so even without going further back than even 60 years ago, there has been some form or another of force. this is a backlash, and i should say it grows, i think, with the backlash from the people whom are clearly misinformed about reality and are bigoted. because it's a war against each other, essentially.

there is animosity there.

i'm not saying it's right, i'm just explaining it's occurrence. sure it's force, no one likes it, that's why both sides are defending one another.

these conversation's about "freedom" already always end up in a tail spin if you try and justify the concept as universal, but then try and put into terms for two warring coalition's.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909607 - 07/07/15 12:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

This case is not about a wedding cake or a marriage. It is about a business’s refusal to serve someone because of their sexual orientation. Under Oregon law, that is illegal.

Within Oregon’s public accommodations law is the basic principle of human decency that every person, regardless of their sexual orientation, has the freedom to fully participate in society. The ability to enter public places, to shop, to dine, to move about unfettered by bigotry.




These laws have been around for decades, and are ubiquitous. The business owners were well aware of the law, and they decided that they were above the law. They insist that their religion gives them a special privilege to discriminate.

These law do exist to force bigoted people from discriminating. They exist because there have been times and places where discrimination was part of the culture and without legal force, change would be slow and remedy would be delayed.

If the business owners didn't like the laws that protect gay people, they can move to a state that doesn't have them. there's your freedom.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909629 - 07/07/15 12:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

None of which changes a word I said.

Force has merely made the problem worse and driven hatred deeper into people.

It has had the opposite of your desired result.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909637 - 07/07/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

point goes to luv.

it was not the intended result, i don't think. i think there needs to be thinking done on both sides of the issue, to be perfectly honest.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #21909648 - 07/07/15 12:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

What if the couple were straight but black.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21909657 - 07/07/15 12:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
point goes to luv.

it was not the intended result, i don't think. i think there needs to be thinking done on both sides of the issue, to be perfectly honest.




Of course it wasn't the intended result. I don't doubt that those who passed such stupid laws truly believed they were doing the right (or best) thing.

Yet the unintended result was the result they got. It has made things worse.

As long as laws like that exist, it will continue to get worse and people will continue giving their money to closeted bigots.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909667 - 07/07/15 01:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

well, he's stated it enough, i think it's well said: it doesn't change what word's he's used. but look, if it was a black couple, it'd get a similar reaction in Oregon, let's face it; it'll be the same outlash pretty much. different parties though. so how'd that change anything about the backlash, from not just the origin of the impropriety but also the after affects: in other words does the punishment here fit the crime?

that's what i think other people are perhaps pointing to as well, but Luv's point is that either way you're getting a worse result unless segregation become's simply outdated, although i'm paraphrasing. because that with that plan you can expect the least amount of damage i think is his point.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909669 - 07/07/15 01:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:

Of course it wasn't the intended result. I don't doubt that those who passed such stupid laws truly believed they were doing the right (or best) thing.

Yet the unintended result was the result they got. It has made things worse.

As long as laws like that exist, it will continue to get worse and people will continue giving their money to closeted bigots.



do you really think? simply witnessing their bereft emptyheadedness about reality does not really engage people's purport's about their culture's view's on homosexuality.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21909691 - 07/07/15 01:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:

Of course it wasn't the intended result. I don't doubt that those who passed such stupid laws truly believed they were doing the right (or best) thing.

Yet the unintended result was the result they got. It has made things worse.

As long as laws like that exist, it will continue to get worse and people will continue giving their money to closeted bigots.



do you really think?




If I say it, I believe it.


Quote:

simply witnessing their bereft emptyheadedness about reality does not really engage people's purport's about their culture's view's on homosexuality.




The bigots, racists, sexists and homophobes are empty headed. So are those that thought/think they can force others to not be bigots, racists, sexists and homophobes.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909699 - 07/07/15 01:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

well i am trying to see all sides on this issue to the best of my ability, and i can see nothing but absurdity so maybe you're right, there's nothing that can done save fending off idiocy.

but that is a good combination of categories there, what shall we call those emptyheaded who thought/think they can force others not to be those things?


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909703 - 07/07/15 01:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
well, he's stated it enough, i think it's well said: it doesn't change what word's he's used. but look, if it was a black couple, it'd get a similar reaction in Oregon, let's face it; it'll be the same outlash pretty much. different parties though. so how'd that change anything about the backlash, from not just the origin of the impropriety but also the after affects: in other words does the punishment here fit the crime?

that's what i think other people are perhaps pointing to as well, but Luv's point is that either way you're getting a worse result unless segregation become's simply outdated, although i'm paraphrasing. because that with that plan you can expect the least amount of damage i think is his point.




How are you getting a worse result? Fact not in evidence. Seems like the message has been sent that you can't discriminate against gay people in Oregon. I doubt black people in the south feel like finally being allowed to sit where they wish on a bus, or a restaurant was a worse result than the status quo which existed until these laws FORCED businesses to serve them.

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:

Of course it wasn't the intended result. I don't doubt that those who passed such stupid laws truly believed they were doing the right (or best) thing.

Yet the unintended result was the result they got. It has made things worse.

As long as laws like that exist, it will continue to get worse and people will continue giving their money to closeted bigots.



do you really think?




If I say it, I believe it.


Quote:

simply witnessing their bereft emptyheadedness about reality does not really engage people's purport's about their culture's view's on homosexuality.




The bigots, racists, sexists and homophobes are empty headed. So are those that thought/think they can force others to not be bigots, racists, sexists and homophobes.




They are welcome to still be bigots, they just can't act upon their beliefs if it means denying someone a service.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21909713 - 07/07/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
what shall we call those emptyheaded who thought/think they can force others not to be those things?




Naive idiots.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909726 - 07/07/15 01:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
They are welcome to still be bigots, they just can't act upon their beliefs if it means denying someone a service.




OK, drive the hatred deeper into people.

That's an amazingly stupid strategy, but enjoy your cake. Enjoy enriching the bigots.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909730 - 07/07/15 01:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

i think maybe it was purported that the result leading up from the preceding one (this latest instance for example) will exponentially grow until it's more and more undesirable. the fact that it's not a sustainable concept when even well-meaning parties partake in "forcing" (as luv calls it) things on individuals. but that's rather pithy, i'd say. you make a good point indeed people if they do nothing then they get walked over on.

personally, i do not know where i stand from the issue.

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
what shall we call those emptyheaded who thought/think they can force others not to be those things?




Naive idiots.



well, i think we can agree they're all idiots. so naive it is then.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21909741 - 07/07/15 01:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
"forcing" (as luv calls it) things on individuals. but that's rather pithy, i'd say.




If one is made to service one he or she does not wish to under penalty of law... it is force.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909746 - 07/07/15 01:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

if every bakery in the state was no gays allowed, then wouldn't gay people make their own bakery's and they certainly could make them gay only no?


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21909775 - 07/07/15 01:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
if every bakery in the state was no gays allowed,




Unlikely as most people aren't homophobes.


Quote:

then wouldn't gay people make their own bakery's




If they wish to.


Quote:

and they certainly could make them gay only no?




If they wish to and if the law didn't prohibit it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909779 - 07/07/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

interesting that you bring up the law. are you saying that the law, if so instated, should be followed and disallow them the gay-only business license?


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909791 - 07/07/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Christ, the free market is not the solution to everything, When you have discriminatory practices, a free market will lead to a segregated market place.

Look, these laws aren't going anywhere. They are in every state, and essentially say the same things give or take a protected class here or there. If you want to run a business serving the public in the US, you are gonna have to comply with these laws. If you don't like it, you didn't have to run a business. :cookiemonster:

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
if every bakery in the state was no gays allowed,




Unlikely as most people aren't homophobes




There are probably places and there certainly was a time when this was not true. I could see a situation where a group like Muslims were completely shunned where whole communities collectively refused to do business with them. Without these kind of laws, there would be no remedy


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909794 - 07/07/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

A gay only business would be just as illegal as a straight only business,


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21909797 - 07/07/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'm saying laws that require people to do business with people they don't wish to do business with, should not exist.

Amazingly enough, that's the same thing I've been saying throughout this thread.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909807 - 07/07/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

i admit i was just grilling you with admonishing tone for play. lol yes, my hypothetical could only be loftily construed upon.

Quote:

koods said:
A gay only business would be just as illegal as a straight only business,



oh look everyone is in agreement.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909815 - 07/07/15 01:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Christ, the free market is not the solution to everything,




Except it pretty much is.


Quote:

When you have discriminatory practices, a free market will lead to a segregated market place.




The discriminators will die off. In the meantime, the laws have deepened their hatred and simply caused it to be passed down to the next generation. While it might have been passed down anyway, it's simply given the bigots just one more reason to remain bigoted.

Your preferred solution is a failure and has made things worse.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909819 - 07/07/15 01:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It wouldn't surprise me if these marriage related businesses are full of nutty religious types. They are totally gay for that shit.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909823 - 07/07/15 01:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Wouldn't surprise me either, yet force is still the wrong path.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909868 - 07/07/15 02:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It's the government trying to remove discrimination towards a group of people. It has worked in the past, and it'll work in the future. If this site existed 60 years ago, you'd be talking about how the government made it where "colored" people could go into your business.

It's not saying that you can't dislike gay people, it is saying you can not discriminate them in a public place. The laws were put in place so no minority group is denied a service that the majority can get. The anti discriminatory laws are for public businesses. If you own a business on a cities property and are selling to all, you have to obey it. If you ran a business that wasn't public, then you can openly discriminate all you want.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Achillita]
    #21909888 - 07/07/15 02:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Achillita said:
It's the government trying to remove discrimination towards a group of people. It has worked in the past, and it'll work in the future. If this site existed 60 years ago, you'd be talking about how the government made it where "colored" people could go into your business.




It didn't help then, it's not helping now.


Quote:

It's not saying that you can't dislike gay people, it is saying you can not discriminate them in a public place. The laws were put in place so no minority group is denied a service that the majority can get. The anti discriminatory laws are for public businesses. If you own a business on a cities property and are selling to all, you have to obey it. If you ran a business that wasn't public, then you can openly discriminate all you want.




You should pay more attention.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909913 - 07/07/15 02:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I think it was a step in the right direction. Just like forced assimilation in schools in the 1960s. Doing so caused tons of people to be upset, but it lead to lower rated of racism over long periods of time.

From what I've seen, gay people aren't really hated by the youth. It's more like "whatever" or the youth embracing that it's okay. The future won't have many homophobes, but the real problem is the discrimination that happens up until the point that the youth own the businesses and corporations.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Achillita]
    #21909928 - 07/07/15 02:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Achillita said:
I think it was a step in the right direction. Just like forced assimilation in schools in the 1960s. Doing so caused tons of people to be upset, but it lead to lower rated of racism over long periods of time.

From what I've seen, gay people aren't really hated by the youth. It's more like "whatever" or the youth embracing that it's okay. The future won't have many homophobes, but the real problem is the discrimination that happens up until the point that the youth own the businesses and corporations.




Which is why I said the stupid would die off. Instead we've driven the hatred deeper into people. Now instead of just hating *insert group here* they also hate the government for forcing them to do that which they don't want to do.

Racism would have faded faster had the politicians been smart enough to understand people don't want to be told what to do.

It stiffens their resolve to continue hating.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909950 - 07/07/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

is there any pertinent literature, or anything that you signify to people to look into to become more knowledgeable of this wisdom you have shared with us to better understand it, this Racism Fades Theory?


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909960 - 07/07/15 02:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I agree, it can stiffen the hate for people already there, but I think that it shows the children it's not okay to discriminate.

And I doubt that racism would have ended much earlier! The US had over 100 years of discriminatory laws. The government pretty much demolished those laws. Expecting a group of ignorant people to change, while they preach their ignorance to their children and have laws(or lack of) laws to back them up won't work. It didn't work for so long, and that's why these laws had to be made.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21909974 - 07/07/15 02:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
is there any pertinent literature, or anything that you signify to people to look into to become more knowledgeable of this wisdom you have shared with us to better understand it, this Racism Fades Theory?




Isn't it enough to notice that younger humans are less racist, homophobic and sexist than their elders?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Achillita]
    #21909990 - 07/07/15 02:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Achillita said:
I agree, it can stiffen the hate for people already there, but I think that it shows the children it's not okay to discriminate.




That could have been accomplished quicker without the force of stupid laws.


Quote:

And I doubt that racism would have ended much earlier! The US had over 100 years of discriminatory laws. The government pretty much demolished those laws. Expecting a group of ignorant people to change, while they preach their ignorance to their children and have laws(or lack of) laws to back them up won't work. It didn't work for so long, and that's why these laws had to be made.




We'll have to disagree. I'm well aware that force doesn't accomplish what the forcers desire.

Racism will never end. The best one can hope for is to diminish it as much as possible. The laws didn't accomplish that. People growing did.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21910006 - 07/07/15 02:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
is there any pertinent literature, or anything that you signify to people to look into to become more knowledgeable of this wisdom you have shared with us to better understand it, this Racism Fades Theory?




Isn't it enough to notice that younger humans are less racist, homophobic and sexist than their elders?



i guess the further back you go the harder it may be, i admittedly presuppose, but based on what i've seen....


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21910017 - 07/07/15 02:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Seeing as I'm rapidly approaching 58, I'm going by what I've seen.

The younger generation, while consisting mainly of whiny self entitled twits, is less racist, sexist and homophobic.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21910034 - 07/07/15 02:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

now onto teh main issue, liberals.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21910088 - 07/07/15 03:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Seeing as I'm rapidly approaching 58, I'm going by what I've seen.

The younger generation, while consisting mainly of whiny self entitled twits, is less racist, sexist and homophobic.



Almost every generation says that the younger generation is fucked, or just whiny or something. I just think it's people realizing how arrogant kids can be(I'm pretty young, and holy shit they can be arrogant). But they're probably no more arrogant then the elders where at the same age. Just different contexts.

And while I agree being racist, sexist, and homophobic is very much on the decline, it wasn't this way for a long time. For hundreds of years racism was encouraged and enforced. While the government tried to stomp it out with laws, the majority of change comes from the children. Schools were instructed to teach that racism is wrong. That's what fundamentally changed, IMO. I can see your point on why denying anyone should be acceptable, but I don't think it's so much for the adults as it is for the children to see that doing so isn't okay.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21910117 - 07/07/15 03:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

greencrush420 said:
That's why you have it plastered across the front door, " we have a right to refuse service to anyone". They don't have to make a fucking cake for someone of they don't want to. This is America, and they are running a business; they aren't slaves.




Not anymore

the business was ordered to pay 135, 000 $ in damages to the gay couple.

Priests now have to perform gay marriages too or else.

Why do gays get these special privileges




Special privileges? Marriage only for straight people is a special privilege. Exemption from anti-discrimination laws for religious reasons is a special privilege.

If you own a business, you must comply with the law, including ones that mandate that you cannot discriminate based on certain traits or characteristics. You are free to not operate a business if you are unwilling to comply with the law.

And you are totally full of shit about that priest thing. Source?




Marriage is a union under god, not "a privilege for straight people". If they want to be financially one and the same under the law, then fine. That does not require a pastor.
The bible says that homosexuality is wrong, so why would you want to be married in a church, by a pastor, under god, when ALL OF THE ABOVE ARE AGAINST YOUR UNION? Explain that.
It's nothing but a piece of paper without gods blessing. It's essentially just a legal agreement between two men/women.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Achillita]
    #21910121 - 07/07/15 03:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Achillita said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Seeing as I'm rapidly approaching 58, I'm going by what I've seen.

The younger generation, while consisting mainly of whiny self entitled twits, is less racist, sexist and homophobic.



Almost every generation says that the younger generation is fucked, or just whiny or something. I just think it's people realizing how arrogant kids can be(I'm pretty young, and holy shit they can be arrogant). But they're probably no more arrogant then the elders where at the same age. Just different contexts.

And while I agree being racist, sexist, and homophobic is very much on the decline, it wasn't this way for a long time. For hundreds of years racism was encouraged and enforced. While the government tried to stomp it out with laws, the majority of change comes from the children. Schools were instructed to teach that racism is wrong. That's what fundamentally changed, IMO. I can see your point on why denying anyone should be acceptable, but I don't think it's so much for the adults as it is for the children to see that doing so isn't okay.




Actually, my point was that while they are in some ways worse, they are in some ways better.


Quote:

Schools were instructed to teach that racism is wrong.




Yup... taught. You teach, you do not force.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420] * 1
    #21910134 - 07/07/15 03:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

greencrush420 said:
Marriage is a union under god, not "a privilege for straight people". If they want to be financially one and the same under the law, then fine. That does not require a pastor.
The bible says that homosexuality is wrong, so why would you want to be married in a church, by a pastor, under god, when ALL OF THE ABOVE ARE AGAINST YOUR UNION? Explain that.
It's nothing but a piece of paper without gods blessing. It's essentially just a legal agreement between two men/women.




As long as marriage is licensed/regulated/sanctioned/permitted for straights, there is no valid reason to deny it to gays. Plus, the 14th amendment says you can't.

nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Plus, it wasn't just churches where gay marriage was illegal. It was all gay marriages in states with laws against them.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420]
    #21910138 - 07/07/15 03:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

greencrush420 said:

Marriage is a union under god, not "a privilege for straight people". If they want to be financially one and the same under the law, then fine. That does not require a pastor.
The bible says that homosexuality is wrong, so why would you want to be married in a church, by a pastor, under god, when ALL OF THE ABOVE ARE AGAINST YOUR UNION? Explain that.
It's nothing but a piece of paper without gods blessing. It's essentially just a legal agreement between two men/women.



this is probably only time i hope i have to say this because it's really stupid that i should have to and i don't even wanna get into the whole debacle of how the priesthood identify very lovingly about themselves and keep a lot of homosexual sex (among other's) repressed and indeed kept in the closet, as it were; there are gay Christian's and Catholic's too is basically what i'm saying.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420]
    #21910258 - 07/07/15 03:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'm sorry, the south had to be forced into not discriminating against blacks. Laws had to be passed. The national guard occasionally needed to enforce these laws. The south was not going to do this on its own.

Quote:

greencrush420 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

greencrush420 said:
That's why you have it plastered across the front door, " we have a right to refuse service to anyone". They don't have to make a fucking cake for someone of they don't want to. This is America, and they are running a business; they aren't slaves.




Not anymore

the business was ordered to pay 135, 000 $ in damages to the gay couple.

Priests now have to perform gay marriages too or else.

Why do gays get these special privileges




Special privileges? Marriage only for straight people is a special privilege. Exemption from anti-discrimination laws for religious reasons is a special privilege.

If you own a business, you must comply with the law, including ones that mandate that you cannot discriminate based on certain traits or characteristics. You are free to not operate a business if you are unwilling to comply with the law.

And you are totally full of shit about that priest thing. Source?




Marriage is a union under god, not "a privilege for straight people". If they want to be financially one and the same under the law, then fine. That does not require a pastor.
The bible says that homosexuality is wrong, so why would you want to be married in a church, by a pastor, under god, when ALL OF THE ABOVE ARE AGAINST YOUR UNION? Explain that.
It's nothing but a piece of paper without gods blessing. It's essentially just a legal agreement between two men/women.



That''s your opinion, and since it is guided by religious doctrine, it has absolutely no place in the public debate.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21910273 - 07/07/15 03:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

His opinion, though ridiculous, has as much place in the debate as yours.

Why is it that so many on the left want to stifle others? Seems rather archaic.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21910281 - 07/07/15 03:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

And really, if saying that god made marriage for you and not me, isnt a special privilege you've claimed for yourself, I don't know what is.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21910287 - 07/07/15 03:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Claiming that god made marriage for man and women is not a legitimate political or legal argument against gay marriage. That's why nobody made that argument in front of the courts, even though you know they wanted to.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21910301 - 07/07/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

He's still as entitled as you are.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21910312 - 07/07/15 03:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Everyone should sue women's only gyms for discrimination!


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21910315 - 07/07/15 03:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I love how all the tards crying special privilege have dropped out of the thread, I mean how can you get a perspective that maligned?


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Shins]
    #21910328 - 07/07/15 03:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Everyone should sue women's only gyms for discrimination!




You might have a case


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21910333 - 07/07/15 03:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Lol yeah right.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Shins]
    #21910340 - 07/07/15 04:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Everyone should sue women's only gyms for discrimination!




Everybody should point out to liberals that telling people what to believe and how to act and think, is as stupid as conservatives telling people what to believe and how to act and think.

Two sides of the same coin. The main difference seems to be liberals are more likely to resort to force.

Those telling others what to believe and how to act and think are contemptible.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21910389 - 07/07/15 04:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If you think that blacks were allowed into businesses that they had once been barred from for any reason other than the force of law, you are delusional.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21910394 - 07/07/15 04:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If you think society doesn't evolve, you are delusional.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21910419 - 07/07/15 04:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, society does evolve and one one the major reasons is through laws that force change


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21910615 - 07/07/15 05:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'm missing something here. So a cake business refuses to make a "gay cake". So the gay couple press charges? The fuck? Just go somewhere else , its the business owners decision who they want to do business with.

Yeah its fucked up that they refused service to a homosexual couple but maybe they where uncomfortable putting dicks on the cake. I dont know. It just seems a little extreme that because the business refused service to one couple, their business and life are going to suffer.

Wait they got charges against them? What charges and for real wtf?


--------------------
:mushdance:  :dancingbear:  :feelspokeman:


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: DOBAS]
    #21910686 - 07/07/15 05:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

So whats next? If you refuse to write, "Hey you! You Fucking ASSHOLE"  or Blah Blahhh blahh, or something vulgar on a cake. It could be anything, will you be charged because its a freedom of speech?

Shorty:peace:


--------------------
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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Shortknight]
    #21910713 - 07/07/15 05:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

no, it's nothing to do with that. it's to do with shibboleth of anti-gay rhetoric, and anti-gay belief's and ideal's, that are preventing people from living freely and civilly.

actually it doesn't even hardly have to with freedom of speech, it has to do with freedom of CHOICE.


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21910732 - 07/07/15 05:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Yeah, society does evolve and one one the major reasons is through laws that force change




Force. Always force.,

Change come to on your own is the way to go. Think back, did force work well on you?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21910753 - 07/07/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah but what, when my freedom of choice is that I like extremely offensive words/ activites that are are completely legal and want you to print it on my cake even if it upsets you? Who are you to say no following this precedence?

Shorty:peace:


--------------------
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Shortknight]
    #21910794 - 07/07/15 05:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Offensive people don't currently have "speshul" protections like some groups.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21911035 - 07/07/15 06:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Akira- you do not need to use apostrophies for plural words.  :cookiemonster: If it were only once or twice, I wouldn't have said anything but you are doing it repeatedly in every post, and you have made several posts on every page. Christ.

LDS- I am having a hard time understanding how younger generations would have become less racist without mandatory integration of public schools? Without exposure to people of different races there isn't really a way to nullify learned hate at stereotypes that were being passed on from generation to generation.

I don't know why this has become such a debate. Had the cake place said "We are sorry, we are unable to make this cake due to an overflow of orders" they wouldn't have had charges brought against them. Instead they said "We don't serve gays and your child is an abomination." That's discrimination which is illegal.

If they didn't want to put dicks on a cake they could have said "sorry, we do not specialize in these types of cakes but [insert cake company here] usually does more artistic and unique cakes. Here is their number. Congratulations!"

Then they post a sign that says "We do not make cakes with vulgar or obscene images or language. Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause."

Instead this company decided to break a contract and to deny a service based on sexual orientation. The end.


--------------------
"You are a ghost driving a meat coated skeleton made from stardust. What do you have to be scared of?"


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Patchouli_Savage]
    #21911063 - 07/07/15 06:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Gays are extremely well organized, well funded, very politically active and know how to mobilize attention to their issues.  For as small a group as they are, they get an amazing amount of political attention.

Personally, I could care less. Get married, don't get married.  Force people to do business with you that don't want to … sue them … be angry your whole life because life's not fair.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Patchouli_Savage]
    #21911079 - 07/07/15 06:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

i don't think i have been. i have been referring to people as their denominations, sort of identifying certain words for certain people as independent "Actor's" whom identify under an umbrella term such as "Christian's" or such.


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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #21911090 - 07/07/15 06:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Gays are extremely well organized, well funded, very politically active and know how to mobilize attention to their issues.  For as small a group as they are, they get an amazing amount of political attention.

Personally, I could care less. Get married, don't get married.  Force people to do business with you that don't want to … sue them … be angry your whole life because life's not fair.




The "Distress" they suffered after this event is astounding. Absolute bullshit. It would literally take a liberal, gay judge to accept their terms of "distress" and award that insane amount of money.

Lets get something else straight here folks. Being gay is not the same as being black. Being gay is a lifestyle choice. You hear me? A LIFESTYLE CHOICE


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Almond Flour]
    #21911110 - 07/07/15 06:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

even if it was (which it is only in as much as being straight is a lifestyle choice, and if that) what does that even have to DO WITH ANYTHING YOU LOONY-TUNES.


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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21911118 - 07/07/15 06:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
even if it was (which it is only in as much as being straight is a lifestyle choice, and if that) what does that even have to DO WITH ANYTHING YOU LOONY-TUNES.




Fast forward 25 years::::

Are you married bro? Hows your marriage? Do you want to get married?

You know marriage dont you? That thing between man-women, man-man, women-women, man-dog, woman-reptile. That marriage!

See how weird this gets. All im saying is if two men want to get married. Why cant a girl and her dog get married?


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Almond Flour]
    #21911119 - 07/07/15 06:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Almond Flour said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Gays are extremely well organized, well funded, very politically active and know how to mobilize attention to their issues.  For as small a group as they are, they get an amazing amount of political attention.

Personally, I could care less. Get married, don't get married.  Force people to do business with you that don't want to … sue them … be angry your whole life because life's not fair.




The "Distress" they suffered after this event is astounding. Absolute bullshit. It would literally take a liberal, gay judge to accept their terms of "distress" and award that insane amount of money.

Lets get something else straight here folks. Being gay is not the same as being black. Being gay is a lifestyle choice. You hear me? A LIFESTYLE CHOICE










Being catholic is a lifestyle choice. Being Gay is not.


Edited by Patchouli_Savage (07/07/15 06:51 PM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Patchouli_Savage]
    #21911137 - 07/07/15 06:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Why cant a girl and her dog get married?




you need to take a philosophy class or something, and understand how stupid you sound. what a ridiculously quandary...where does it end, if it's not in-between man and a women then it's liable to be woman and a dog soon enough! give it rest.

that isn't how thinking fucking works :lol: what you aspire to is the typical traditional family unit, the nuclear family, but little you seemingly understand is that that is all an illusion. the propensity for the inherent dumbness in your argument here is just astounding. but i wholeheartedly think you think you are onto something.


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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21911184 - 07/07/15 06:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Why cant a girl and her dog get married?




you need to take a philosophy class or something, and understand how stupid you sound. what a ridiculously quandary...where does it end, if it's not in-between man and a women then it's liable to be woman and a dog soon enough! give it rest.

that isn't how thinking fucking works :lol: what you aspire to is the typical traditional family unit, the nuclear family, but little you seemingly understand is that that is all an illusion. the propensity for the inherent dumbness in your argument here is just astounding. but i wholeheartedly think you think you are onto something.




Fuck moral relativity. You are full of it, and its a bullshit philosophy in and of itself.

I have taken a philosophy class. At one of the most liberal/hippie universities in our country.

All im saying is, the folks over at beastforum.com Claim

-They were born that way
-And some lobby politically to legalize human/animal love

Why cant they have marriage too? Love is love right? You bigot!


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Almond Flour]
    #21911218 - 07/07/15 07:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

moral relativism, no...i was talking about you getting your head on straight with these ridiculous arguments.

your dogma is morally relative.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Almond Flour]
    #21911228 - 07/07/15 07:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Patchouli_Savage said:
LDS- I am having a hard time understanding how younger generations would have become less racist without mandatory integration of public schools? Without exposure to people of different races there isn't really a way to nullify learned hate at stereotypes that were being passed on from generation to generation.




I didn't say anything about the public sector. I don't think the public sector should ever be allowed to discriminate.

My position was and is, that the private sector should not have laws mandating who they do or do not business with.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21911234 - 07/07/15 07:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Patchouli_Savage said:
LDS- I am having a hard time understanding how younger generations would have become less racist without mandatory integration of public schools? Without exposure to people of different races there isn't really a way to nullify learned hate at stereotypes that were being passed on from generation to generation.




I didn't say anything about the public sector. I don't think the public sector should ever be allowed to discriminate.

My position was and is, that the private sector should not have laws mandating who they do or do not business with.




They were not discriminating! This is the problem. They were being asked to take part in a homosexual wedding ceremony and instead they stuck to their faith.


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Almond Flour]
    #21911241 - 07/07/15 07:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

their faith is a bunch of putrid garbage if they can act so stupid.


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InvisibleChinChiller
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Almond Flour]
    #21911243 - 07/07/15 07:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Almond Flour said:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.




Now thats just absurd. There are a lot more people in this world than socialists, unionists,and jews to stand up for me god dammit.


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: ChinChiller] * 1
    #21911269 - 07/07/15 07:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I wanna open a cake shop and refuse every Catholic and make national news and watch Almond Flour flip his shit over someone discriminating against religion.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Shroomslip]
    #21911286 - 07/07/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

and then on the news take the Bible and boil it a crock pot of shit around a bunch of protesting Christians.


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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21911321 - 07/07/15 07:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
and then on the news take the Bible and boil it a crock pot of shit around a bunch of protesting Christians.




Now is that necessary? What are you 5 years old :rolleyes: Grow the fuck up, all of you. At LEAST even the most conservative of Christians dont pull bullshit such as this or make such remarks


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Almond Flour]
    #21911345 - 07/07/15 07:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

my religion entail's that i flagellate the Bible with a whip, and smash it with a hammer and then bury it it in dung, and then set the dung on fire, after some intense nipple twisting.


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Almond Flour]
    #21911365 - 07/07/15 07:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Almond Flour said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
and then on the news take the Bible and boil it a crock pot of shit around a bunch of protesting Christians.




Now is that necessary? What are you 5 years old :rolleyes: Grow the fuck up, all of you. At LEAST even the most conservative of Christians dont pull bullshit such as this or make such remarks



No instead they tell people how everything they do is wrong and they're going to suffer and burn for all of eternity unless they go give the church some money and enter into mass delusion with the rest. And that's the nice ones. Few hundred years ago they'd burn you alive or torture you to death.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


Edited by Shroomslip (07/07/15 07:29 PM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Shroomslip]
    #21911378 - 07/07/15 07:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Gilles de Rais was super nice BTW.


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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21912187 - 07/07/15 10:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I don't get your response. I did not state my opinion. I stated fact. Marriage, IS,  a religious act. Why would a homosexual couple want to be married by an institution that does not want to marry them, or recognize their union? I'm not against gay union, but I am against the government forcing churches to marry them. Let them get their legal marriage!  Basically, my problem is with the government poking their nose in the business of the church. Do you want the church poking their nose into the government?
My opinions have nothing to do with my religion, but with fact, so quit attempting to label me as an "ignorant christian", and discredit my opinions. Make a valid point to discredit mine, or shut up. What is my religeon? Do you even know? Do I have one? Quit building straw men.


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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Almond Flour]
    #21912207 - 07/07/15 10:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

They're never going to get it dude. They want to make it into something it is not.
The pastor does not want to marry them, so why would they want him to be a part of their special day?
The bakers does not want to bake them a cake, so why would they want him to be a part of their special day?
These people are just fucking stupid.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420]
    #21912227 - 07/07/15 10:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

marriage is a civil union, it's just so happens to be distributed by a religious institution, along with the state.

religious people have stupid irrational belief's that cannot be defended with any sound logic.


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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21912273 - 07/07/15 10:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

No, a civil union is a civil union. A marriage is a marriage. If they want to go to the fucking courthouse, then let them do so. I give zero fucks.
You keep dodging the point. Why THE FUCK, do these imbeciles want to be married by someone who does not want to marry their asses? And WHY THE FUCK, is the government in the middle of it?


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OfflineReposadoXochipilli
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Almond Flour]
    #21912310 - 07/07/15 10:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Almond Flour said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Gays are extremely well organized, well funded, very politically active and know how to mobilize attention to their issues.  For as small a group as they are, they get an amazing amount of political attention.

Personally, I could care less. Get married, don't get married.  Force people to do business with you that don't want to … sue them … be angry your whole life because life's not fair.




The "Distress" they suffered after this event is astounding. Absolute bullshit. It would literally take a liberal, gay judge to accept their terms of "distress" and award that insane amount of money.

Lets get something else straight here folks. Being gay is not the same as being black. Being gay is a lifestyle choice. You hear me? A LIFESTYLE CHOICE



your lifestyle choice is to remain ignorant about most realities in life, congrats on championing your embarrassing understanding of sexuality with such vigor that we can't even pretend you are trolling, unfortunately you are one of the few people that makes me want to use the ignore feature.


--------------------


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OfflinePatchouli_Savage
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420]
    #21912397 - 07/07/15 10:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

greencrush420 said:
No, a civil union is a civil union. A marriage is a marriage. If they want to go to the fucking courthouse, then let them do so. I give zero fucks.
You keep dodging the point. Why THE FUCK, do these imbeciles want to be married by someone who does not want to marry their asses? And WHY THE FUCK, is the government in the middle of it?




Even if you get married by a religious authority you still have to apply for and pay for a marriage license from the state. Marriage is indeed a civil union which requires permission from the government regardless of your faith.

Atheists get married. Are they less married than two christians who tie the knot?

Believe it or not, some gay couples identify as Christians and would like their wedding ceremony to reflect their faith.

I would like to know why it is so wrong for a priest to marry a gay couple when he probably just finished raping a child after communion?


--------------------
"You are a ghost driving a meat coated skeleton made from stardust. What do you have to be scared of?"


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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Patchouli_Savage]
    #21912441 - 07/07/15 10:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know anything about priests, as I am not Catholic. Evidently you are though, based on the certainty with which you speak of them. Enlighten me, how do you know that all priests are rapists and child molesters?


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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Patchouli_Savage]
    #21912462 - 07/07/15 11:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Marriage is not a civil union. A civil union is a civil union. You can say your vows before god, and be married. You don't have to go get the legal paperwork. You will know, and god will know, and that is all that matters for religious purposes.
I still have not gotten my answer. Why do these fools want to be married by someone who does not want to marry them?
Why is the government poking its fat ass nose into a religious issue?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420]
    #21912567 - 07/07/15 11:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

it's a civil contract. you can do it just with God alone and there is where all of your conniption gets left behind.


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OfflinePatchouli_Savage
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420]
    #21912632 - 07/07/15 11:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I gave you the answer. There are gay couples who identify as christian and want their marriage ceremony to reflect their faith. No, I am obviously not catholic, but it is no secret that the catholic church has been covering up child sexual abuse by priests for decades.

You didn't answer my questions.

By your logic are two atheists who say some words married if they say they are?

Are two people of the same gender married because they said some words but didn't get a document to state they are married?

The marriage license is what gives a spouse power of attorney in the event of a catostrophic medical dilema if there are no advanced directives on file. In the end, quite literally, that marriage license carries far more weight than saying some words into the air and calling it a day. I have known a lot of couples who were together for years but got married because of the benefits it offers, such as being able to put your spouse on your health insurance policy, because in such an instance as they were building a family, calling themselves married couples simply didn't suffice.

Sure, before we had to worry about silly things like advanced directives, taxes, and health insurance, some vows would have been enough. Now, it is not enough to say some words because the government couldn't give a shit what you feel in your heart if you do not have the paperwork to back it up.


--------------------
"You are a ghost driving a meat coated skeleton made from stardust. What do you have to be scared of?"


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OfflinePatchouli_Savage
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420]
    #21912693 - 07/07/15 11:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

greencrush420 said:

Why is the government poking its fat ass nose into a religious issue?





Taxes
Property ownership
Medical issues
Health insurance benefits
The children
Wills/inheritence/estate issues when someone dies
Various government benefits such as SS or VA benefits
Power of attorney issues that can arise if one had not been previously designated if POA is needed
Fuckin' money


--------------------
"You are a ghost driving a meat coated skeleton made from stardust. What do you have to be scared of?"


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420]
    #21913817 - 07/08/15 07:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

greencrush420 said:
I don't get your response. I did not state my opinion. I stated fact. Marriage, IS,  a religious act. Why would a homosexual couple want to be married by an institution that does not want to marry them, or recognize their union? I'm not against gay union, but I am against the government forcing churches to marry them. Let them get their legal marriage!  Basically, my problem is with the government poking their nose in the business of the church. Do you want the church poking their nose into the government?
My opinions have nothing to do with my religion, but with fact, so quit attempting to label me as an "ignorant christian", and discredit my opinions. Make a valid point to discredit mine, or shut up. What is my religeon? Do you even know? Do I have one? Quit building straw men.




Nobody is forcing churches to perform gay weddings. Don't lecture other people about strawmen in the same post as that big fat strawman.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420]
    #21913831 - 07/08/15 08:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

greencrush420 said:
No, a civil union is a civil union. A marriage is a marriage. If they want to go to the fucking courthouse, then let them do so. I give zero fucks.
You keep dodging the point. Why THE FUCK, do these imbeciles want to be married by someone who does not want to marry their asses? And WHY THE FUCK, is the government in the middle of it?




NOBODY IS FORCING CHURCHES TO MARRY GAY PEOPLE!!!

Quote:

Do you want the church poking their nose into the government?





No. But it happens all the time.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420]
    #21913849 - 07/08/15 08:09 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

greencrush420 said:
Marriage is not a civil union. A civil union is a civil union. You can say your vows before god, and be married. You don't have to go get the legal paperwork. You will know, and god will know, and that is all that matters for religious purposes.
I still have not gotten my answer. Why do these fools want to be married by someone who does not want to marry them?
Why is the government poking its fat ass nose into a religious issue?




"Marriage is special and it's only for a man and a woman" Right? Yes or No? You believe, in fact, that marriage is a special right reserved for straight people.

Just want to clear this up, so I can reference your answer next time someone claims gays are demanding special rights.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21913850 - 07/08/15 08:09 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

greencrush420 said:
I don't get your response. I did not state my opinion. I stated fact. Marriage, IS,  a religious act. Why would a homosexual couple want to be married by an institution that does not want to marry them, or recognize their union? I'm not against gay union, but I am against the government forcing churches to marry them. Let them get their legal marriage!  Basically, my problem is with the government poking their nose in the business of the church. Do you want the church poking their nose into the government?
My opinions have nothing to do with my religion, but with fact, so quit attempting to label me as an "ignorant christian", and discredit my opinions. Make a valid point to discredit mine, or shut up. What is my religeon? Do you even know? Do I have one? Quit building straw men.




Nobody is forcing churches to perform gay weddings. Don't lecture other people about strawmen in the same post as that big fat strawman.




Lies, it has happened in Canada, where this type of "Marriage" has been allowed for 10 years


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Almond Flour]
    #21913863 - 07/08/15 08:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Ok. Canada isn't the US.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21913870 - 07/08/15 08:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

actually, source that claim.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21914171 - 07/08/15 09:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

"By your logic are two atheists who say some words married if they say they are?"

Why would they do say words before god and then claim to be married if they are atheist? Your question does not make sense.

"Are two people of the same gender married because they said some words but didn't get a document to state they are married?"

No. THAT IS MY POINT. For the 10th time. Why would they want a ceremony before god if god, the pastor, and the church do not acknowledge their marriage.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420]
    #21914272 - 07/08/15 10:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

because they feel like God will accept them anyway.

you are really so :flowstone:


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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21914297 - 07/08/15 10:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Christianity has reformed hundreds and hundreds of times over a millennia , this will be another change eventually. Or it'll become something that the church tolerates. There are plenty of gay accepting churches already, My friend's father was a pastor of such. While it wasn't a catholic church, it shows that religion can very well be accepting of gay rights.

But Marriage isn't inherit only to christianity. It's not something that can "officially" be done only by a priest for a "true" marriage. Marriage has existed in nearly every religion and culture. So saying that a true marriage is under god is idiotic.


--------------------


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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420]
    #21914408 - 07/08/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

greencrush420 said:
"By your logic are two atheists who say some words married if they say they are?"

Why would they do say words before god and then claim to be married if they are atheist? Your question does not make sense.

"Are two people of the same gender married because they said some words but didn't get a document to state they are married?"

No. THAT IS MY POINT. For the 10th time. Why would they want a ceremony before god if god, the pastor, and the church do not acknowledge their marriage.




As has been said, there are chur hes who are open and accepting to the gay community.

If two christians can simply say some words and call it a marriage, then why can't two atheists? I did not say the atheists were speaking "before god" you did. I don't care what your faith is or what imaginary friend you claim to have said your vows in front of. No marriage license? You are not fucking married then. It's actually pretty simple. To say that straight christians can simply say some words, call themselves married, and it is so but nobody else can is fucking ludicrous. That is MY point.


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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Patchouli_Savage]
    #21917249 - 07/08/15 10:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:lolwut:
If there are churches who will accept them, then why don't they go get married there instead of trying to force their way in where they are not wanted? Duh.


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OfflineAchillita
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420]
    #21917361 - 07/08/15 10:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'm actually pretty sure the law exempts religious organizations to follow the laws. I actually don't remmeber anyone saying anything about the government forcing churches to marry gay people.

They are forcing state any sanctioned(and payed) priests to perform gay marriages.


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