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Invisibletrampis
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21908903 - 07/07/15 09:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)



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InvisibleShins
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21908906 - 07/07/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

People should be able to discriminate in commerce all they want.  That is obviously a stupid law.

breaking a contract is not good though.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Shins]
    #21908918 - 07/07/15 09:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

sure they should, anti-discrimination law's, like i said are touchy, i mean, even in and of itself, it's a touchy sort of law that shouldn't be necessary. surely though it's been necessitated.

and they did make a contract so, even if they weren't fined, they'd still get sued. good. fuck them and their old dried up ways.


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Shins]
    #21909008 - 07/07/15 10:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

greencrush420 said:
That's why you have it plastered across the front door, " we have a right to refuse service to anyone". They don't have to make a fucking cake for someone of they don't want to. This is America, and they are running a business; they aren't slaves.




Not anymore

the business was ordered to pay 135, 000 $ in damages to the gay couple.

Priests now have to perform gay marriages too or else.

Why do gays get these special privileges




I hadn't heard anything about this story but if this is ture, that is OUTRAGEOUS! 

A persn has a righ tnot ot make a fucking cake if he doesn't want to.  If this bakery was part of a corporation, then I would say they would have to do what the customer ordered, because a corporation doesn't have a or any other thoughts other than "make money".  But if it's just a mom and pop bakery and they don't want to make a cake for ANY FUCkING REASON, they shouldn't have to.  OUTRAGEOUS!

And what fucking damages?  You got an article or something?


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21909011 - 07/07/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I couldn't read a word of that. Re-type, coherently, please.

I did catch some shit about Ireland. How are you bringing Ireland into the conversation? This happened in the United States, therefore, Irish law does not apply.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: greencrush420]
    #21909061 - 07/07/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

you know, i forgot OP mentioned Oregon,  unfortunately however he didn't post a link to the story, so i found a link at the top of the page on Google of the exact same story, just one in Ireland. :grin: which i find amusing but...seriously if you can't read simple English...sorry.

but i'll give a cliff notes version if you can't read my previous posts.

1: business do not operate to turn down customer's; it's stupid. that's first and foremost

2: i do not know about this story's detail's more, but i'll assume they were contractually obliged to make the cake; either way "Under Oregon law," the state agency said in a statement, "Oregonians cannot be denied service based on sexual orientation. The law provides an exemption for religious organizations and schools, but does not allow private business owners to discriminate based on sexual orientation, just as they cannot legally deny service based on race, sex, age, veteran status, disability or religion.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Shins]
    #21909207 - 07/07/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

greencrush420 said:
That's why you have it plastered across the front door, " we have a right to refuse service to anyone". They don't have to make a fucking cake for someone of they don't want to. This is America, and they are running a business; they aren't slaves.




Not anymore

the business was ordered to pay 135, 000 $ in damages to the gay couple.

Priests now have to perform gay marriages too or else.

Why do gays get these special privileges




Special privileges? Marriage only for straight people is a special privilege. Exemption from anti-discrimination laws for religious reasons is a special privilege.

If you own a business, you must comply with the law, including ones that mandate that you cannot discriminate based on certain traits or characteristics. You are free to not operate a business if you are unwilling to comply with the law.

And you are totally full of shit about that priest thing. Source?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #21909229 - 07/07/15 10:59 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

greencrush420 said:
That's why you have it plastered across the front door, " we have a right to refuse service to anyone". They don't have to make a fucking cake for someone of they don't want to. This is America, and they are running a business; they aren't slaves.




Not anymore

the business was ordered to pay 135, 000 $ in damages to the gay couple.

Priests now have to perform gay marriages too or else.

Why do gays get these special privileges




I hadn't heard anything about this story but if this is ture, that is OUTRAGEOUS! 

A persn has a righ tnot ot make a fucking cake if he doesn't want to.  If this bakery was part of a corporation, then I would say they would have to do what the customer ordered, because a corporation doesn't have a or any other thoughts other than "make money".  But if it's just a mom and pop bakery and they don't want to make a cake for ANY FUCkING REASON, they shouldn't have to.  OUTRAGEOUS!

And what fucking damages?  You got an article or something?




A persn has a righ tnot ot make a fucking cake if he doesn't want to.
Not they don't.

Every state in the country has public accommodation statues that say business cannot discriminate based on race, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, and others. Some states cover sexual orientation, some don't. There is nothing radical about these laws,  and what happened to this business resulted from them breaking a law that every business in the country is obliged to follow.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909253 - 07/07/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

greencrush420 said:
That's why you have it plastered across the front door, " we have a right to refuse service to anyone". They don't have to make a fucking cake for someone of they don't want to. This is America, and they are running a business; they aren't slaves.




Not anymore

the business was ordered to pay 135, 000 $ in damages to the gay couple.

Priests now have to perform gay marriages too or else.

Why do gays get these special privileges




Special privileges? Marriage only for straight people is a special privilege. Exemption from anti-discrimination laws for religious reasons is a special privilege.

If you own a business, you must comply with the law, including ones that mandate that you cannot discriminate based on certain traits or characteristics. You are free to not operate a business if you are unwilling to comply with the law.

And you are totally full of shit about that priest thing. Source?





Priests refusing is discrimination too.

The law is stupid.  Buisinesses shoukd be ablt to discriminate all they want.  If someone asks me to renovate their deck I should be able to say no for any reason I want.  I shoikdnt be obligated to to business with anyone.


Have you ever heard of a discriminatory lawsuit from a straight couple before?  This is certainly special privileges,  just like how my city lines the street with rainbow flags and paints the crosswalks rainbow.  Those are special privileges.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909262 - 07/07/15 11:07 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

§ 659A.400¹
Place of public accommodation defined
(1) A place of public accommodation, subject to the exclusions in subsection (2) of this section, means:
(a) Any place or service offering to the public accommodations, advantages, facilities or privileges whether in the nature of goods, services, lodgings, amusements, transportation or otherwise.
(b) Any place that is open to the public and owned or maintained by a public body, as defined in ORS 174.109 (Public body defined), regardless of whether the place is commercial in nature.
(c) Any service to the public that is provided by a public body, as defined in ORS 174.109 (Public body defined), regardless of whether the service is commercial in nature.

§ 659A.403¹
Discrimination in place of public accommodation prohibited
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, all persons within the jurisdiction of this state are entitled to the full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of any place of public accommodation, without any distinction, discrimination or restriction on account of race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, marital status or age if the individual is 18 years of age or older.
(2) Subsection (1) of this section does not prohibit:
(a) The enforcement of laws governing the consumption of alcoholic beverages by minors and the frequenting by minors of places of public accommodation where alcoholic beverages are served; or
(b) The offering of special rates or services to persons 50 years of age or older.
(3) It is an unlawful practice for any person to deny full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of any place of public accommodation in violation of this section. [Formerly 30.670; 2003 c.521 §1; 2005 c.131 §1; 2007 c.100 §5]


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909267 - 07/07/15 11:09 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I know its the law.

the law is stupid.

it being law doesn't mean its right.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: Shins]
    #21909277 - 07/07/15 11:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

If someone asks me to renovate their deck I should be able to say no for any reason I want.  I shoikdnt be obligated to to business with anyone.





dude you have the right deny someone asking you to build them a deck, whether under the table or not, it's all fine and dandy... (well not literally) this applies to PUBLIC business outlets... JESUS.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909280 - 07/07/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


Priests refusing is discrimination too.

The law is stupid.  Buisinesses shoukd be ablt to discriminate all they want.  If someone asks me to renovate their deck I should be able to say no for any reason I want.  I shoikdnt be obligated to to business with anyone.


Have you ever heard of a discriminatory lawsuit from a straight couple before?  This is certainly special privileges,  just like how my city lines the street with rainbow flags and paints the crosswalks rainbow.  Those are special privileges.




Nobody is making priests marry gay people. Gimme a break. Religious organizations are exempt from public accommodation laws.

You know these laws go both ways? It doesn't say you can't discriminate against gay people. It says you can't based on sexual orientation. Straight people are covered just as much as gay people.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909289 - 07/07/15 11:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The problem isn't simply saying i can't make you a cake or do your deck. The problem is saying I can't make a cake because you're gay. Or catholic. Or Pakistani. Or black.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: koods]
    #21909440 - 07/07/15 12:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Using force to enact their desired social changes, renders the forcers no better morally than the forcees.

Plus, it feeds the hatred of those forced. Laws like that might get you your cake, but it makes the problem worse.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909451 - 07/07/15 12:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

yes, absolutely right. i was thinking the same thing; well put LDS.

it's basically a political motive for these shenanigan's.

but unfortunately, those, the so-called bigots, they embrace the same motivation, a political motivation against them...so how can this be solved?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21909475 - 07/07/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
so how can this be solved?




Time.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909484 - 07/07/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Using force to enact their desired social changes, renders the forcers no better morally than the forcees.

Plus, it feeds the hatred of those forced. Laws like that might get you your cake, but it makes the problem worse.




These laws exist because discrimination happens. Yah, maybe it's easy to find another bakery. But, what if every bakery doesn't want to serve gays. What if a restaurant doesn't let black people in. Unfortunately, the free market does not solve every problem and without legal recourse, there can be (and have been) situations where entire groups of people are essentially second class citizens.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21909490 - 07/07/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

what about the fact that this absurd religious dogma is encased in our culture seemingly in stone, and that gays and lesbians have no dogma and simply have no other choice to stand up for themselves, and can't rely on anyone else to help them but their own sexes and genders (a terrible syndicate of coalition's to even deal with from the inside, let alone from the perspective held on them already in society); how can that be solved? time? how can time erase dogma?


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OfflineSunnyD
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Re: Federal vs. Oregon...GAYS! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21909521 - 07/07/15 12:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Damn,
I am always surprised how troubled most peoples minds are with petty shit,
how conflicted peoples minds are, to have a problem with anyone who isn't negatively effected you life,


I just find it so petty,


--------------------
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This is the time in life I am living!
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