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thetawave
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Registered: 08/03/13
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Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub.
#21908445 - 07/07/15 06:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hello fellow growers.
I made a thread on the contams board a week back diagnosing the strange looking mycelium in my monotub. I was advised that this is tomentose mycelium.



Assuming that this is correct, this looks like some damn strong mycelium. Its growing white mountains and valleys on top of the coir/verm/coffee/gypsum substrate. This is multispore GT by the way. It looks past ready to fruit, so I am planning to do this within the next days.
I have done my fair share of reading on casing, and I think I will NOT case this tub as many say casing is just adding to the contamination factor. But then again, looking at the bumpy terrain of this tub it seems like casing may give me a more even pinset.
What do you guys think? Is this mycelium, firstly? Secondly, would a 50/50 casing be beneficial in this case?
Thank you.
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 7,205
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: thetawave]
#21908785 - 07/07/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Definitely tomentose growth. I've read about people that can get great fruits from this type of growth, but I would let it consolidate until there isn't any exposed coir, especially on the sides of the tub. Casing layers are tricky in that you have to make sure you balance the pH properly or it will just be an open vector for contaminates to grow on. For this tub, it would definitely help create an even pinset, given the look of the tub.
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sisomsO
Luigi



Registered: 06/05/14
Posts: 449
Loc: Purgatory
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: Psilosoulful] 1
#21908846 - 07/07/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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No need to case it. You're golden. Hopefully your damn strong mycelium, which it is, will cover that little patch of coir in the next day or two. Then fruit it.
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DeTwizzle
Anyone


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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: sisomsO]
#21909221 - 07/07/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have a tub like that. I cased mine and it has been in fruiting coditions for 8 days without popping one primordial knot. Wondering if it is even gonna fruit.
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CarlosDanger
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Registered: 05/14/14
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: DeTwizzle]
#21909322 - 07/07/15 11:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I believe it's mycelium, the tomentose type, i used to think that it was a different organism living alongside the mushrooms. Some people spray peroxide on it for some reason
Yea i agree with you, this time let it fruit. Casing isn't necessary, but worth the extra effort imo
Casing adds to the contamination factor, but in a negative way as one of the purposes is to reduce the chance of contamination. To me it holds in water, and allows for better pin formation.
GT grew really aggressive and a little fuzzy for me too, i bet the coffee suped it up even more. 
Can i ask what pasteurization method you used, and how you mixed you substrate with your spawn?
The bare spot in the back looks like it should have been colonized by then
Edited by CarlosDanger (07/07/15 11:37 AM)
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sisomsO
Luigi



Registered: 06/05/14
Posts: 449
Loc: Purgatory
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: CarlosDanger]
#21909402 - 07/07/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've read that casing gives a minimal effect on cubensis unless it is PE or APE. You want to consolidate, which you have already done, to PE, APE, azurescens, cyans, things of that nature, and case them as well. I am a noob, but I think you should fruit it bro. Good luck!
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: sisomsO]
#21909422 - 07/07/15 12:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've read that 90% of the advice In this thread is pure garbage.
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sisomsO
Luigi



Registered: 06/05/14
Posts: 449
Loc: Purgatory
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: bodhisatta]
#21909425 - 07/07/15 12:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Then lay it on us. Show us the way. Should OP not fruit it right now?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: sisomsO]
#21909454 - 07/07/15 12:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Casings are not tricky nor do they increase contamination risk unless you sucks at them. They can benefit all cubes if done right but are not needed. Tomentose and rhizomorohic are the two biggest things noobs get concerend for no reason about. On a bulk substrate you really get neither you just get colonization. Sometimes you'll get some rhizomorphs but rhizo and tomentose really show up more on agar and grain spawn. On substrates its just colonization as far as I'm concerned. You could nitpick it but why? The growth I see on the tub looks thick like the substrate was either above field capacity a bit or bacteria in the spawn. Or both.
That uncolonized slot is really suspect. And casing layers need not be PH balanced if they are casings that are known to just work as is.
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CarlosDanger
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: bodhisatta]
#21910130 - 07/07/15 03:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Casings are not tricky nor do they increase contamination risk unless you sucks at them. They can benefit all cubes if done right but are not needed. Tomentose and rhizomorohic are the two biggest things noobs get concerend for no reason about. On a bulk substrate you really get neither you just get colonization. Sometimes you'll get some rhizomorphs but rhizo and tomentose really show up more on agar and grain spawn. On substrates its just colonization as far as I'm concerned. You could nitpick it but why? The growth I see on the tub looks thick like the substrate was either above field capacity a bit or bacteria in the spawn. Or both.
That uncolonized slot is really suspect. And casing layers need not be PH balanced if they are casings that are known to just work as is.
What do you mean the growth looks thick from being above field capacity? just curious.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: CarlosDanger]
#21910167 - 07/07/15 03:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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if a substrate is a little past field capacity it usually will still colonize but the mycelium get's a little bubbly and thick. bacteria is also strongly encouraged by over wet substrates but usually not so much so that it causes a problem other than lower yield and early retirement to contaminant mold.
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thetawave
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Registered: 08/03/13
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: CarlosDanger]
#21910557 - 07/07/15 04:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
CarlosDanger said: I believe it's mycelium, the tomentose type, i used to think that it was a different organism living alongside the mushrooms. Some people spray peroxide on it for some reason
Yea i agree with you, this time let it fruit. Casing isn't necessary, but worth the extra effort imo
Casing adds to the contamination factor, but in a negative way as one of the purposes is to reduce the chance of contamination. To me it holds in water, and allows for better pin formation.
GT grew really aggressive and a little fuzzy for me too, i bet the coffee suped it up even more. 
Can i ask what pasteurization method you used, and how you mixed you substrate with your spawn?
The bare spot in the back looks like it should have been colonized by then
Carlos, for this tub I used 7qt of wheat berry spawn with coir/verm/gypsum, I mixed it all up (no layering) and then put down a layer of substrate on top. The substrate was pasteurized using Franks tek (in qt jars).
Thank you for all the advice guys. I have changed my mind and I'm thinking now that a casing layer would definitely be beneficial in this case because its bumpy as hell. And since the tub is looking a bit questionable, I might as well try my hand at casing for the first time  Also, the patch in the back is now colonized - I would say the top is about 98% colonized now. I will wait a few more days before casing... and then give you guys an update 
Thank you again. I am proud to finally be a part of this awesome community!
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thetawave
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: bodhisatta]
#21910569 - 07/07/15 04:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: if a substrate is a little past field capacity it usually will still colonize but the mycelium get's a little bubbly and thick. bacteria is also strongly encouraged by over wet substrates but usually not so much so that it causes a problem other than lower yield and early retirement to contaminant mold.
Strangely enough, the substrate in this tub was on the dryer side. I had read that field capacity is tested by squeezing the substrate until only a few drops fall, and thats how I did mine. But now I read that field capacity is the maximum amount of water that the material can hold, which means squeezing water out would make it under field capacity...
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 7,205
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: thetawave]
#21911022 - 07/07/15 06:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thank you for all the advice guys. I have changed my mind and I'm thinking now that a casing layer would definitely be beneficial in this case because its bumpy as hell. And since the tub is looking a bit questionable, I might as well try my hand at casing for the first time 
Good idea man, It's nice being able to harvest all the fruits at once rather than harvesting randomly mature fruits throughout the sub. How are you gonna make your casing layer, with peat moss/verm or just verm? I've been reading around to see if hydrated lime is completely necessary as a pH buffer but some people add it and some people don't, so I'm not sure at this point. I guess just experiment with and without it and see what works best! Good luck and keep us updated.
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Ganon
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: bodhisatta]
#21911239 - 07/07/15 07:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: I've read that 90% of the advice In this thread is pure garbage.
woot woot
go bodhisatta
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Edited by Ganon (07/07/15 07:08 PM)
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: thetawave]
#21911322 - 07/07/15 07:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
thetawave said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: if a substrate is a little past field capacity it usually will still colonize but the mycelium get's a little bubbly and thick. bacteria is also strongly encouraged by over wet substrates but usually not so much so that it causes a problem other than lower yield and early retirement to contaminant mold.
Strangely enough, the substrate in this tub was on the dryer side. I had read that field capacity is tested by squeezing the substrate until only a few drops fall, and thats how I did mine. But now I read that field capacity is the maximum amount of water that the material can hold, which means squeezing water out would make it under field capacity...
Always squeeze to field capacity before putting into jars/bags. If you do a search you'll find substrate too wet is basically all over, whereas substrate too dry is pretty rare. You'd much prefer a little too dry over too wet. I seriously recommend you squeeze until drops are coming out.
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bugman
buggy


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Loc: united kingdom
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: Mad Season]
#21911815 - 07/07/15 08:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: if a substrate is a little past field capacity it usually will still colonize but the mycelium get's a little bubbly and thick. bacteria is also strongly encouraged by over wet substrates but usually not so much so that it causes a problem other than lower yield and early retirement to contaminant mold. so this is correct then?
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 7,205
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: bugman]
#21911858 - 07/07/15 08:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bugman said: Quote:
bodhisatta said: if a substrate is a little past field capacity it usually will still colonize but the mycelium get's a little bubbly and thick. bacteria is also strongly encouraged by over wet substrates but usually not so much so that it causes a problem other than lower yield and early retirement to contaminant mold. so this is correct then?
Yeah sounds about right but I'd really like to know how people make their casings now lol. There's a lot of conflicted info out there? Bodhisatta said that casings are fine as is, but I've read that they need to be pH balanced because peat moss is too acidic. I don't want to mess up my next monotub. Can any TC's chime in on this?
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: Psilosoulful]
#21911913 - 07/07/15 09:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you can just get the pH between 8 and 8.5. That's ideal. Squeezed to field capacity
Edited by Mad Season (07/07/15 09:32 PM)
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thetawave
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Re: Need some advice with tomentose mycelium monotub. [Re: Mad Season]
#21949301 - 07/15/15 08:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quick update - tub lost due to contamination. Its getting too hot here, 86-90... will need to wait till fall for the next tub! Thanks for all the help.
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