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drr

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
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Why is opium so elusive
#21906685 - 07/06/15 07:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Of all the drugs out there, this simple staple of the natural drug world should be more available. I wouldn't know where to get it and if I thought I did, I'd be afraid I was just being sold black tar heroin.
I don't know anything about the illegal opiate scene - I eat kratom once in a while and occasionally a friend will have a few vicodins or percocets or tramadols or even some tylenol 3s, and I will take advantage of the situation and eat a couple. I've never done heroin and I don't really want to. But I would really love to try smoking real opium one day.
Where can it be found in the US? Does anybody have it? Junkies? Or just hardcore drug collectors? Are there people who smoke opium but don't do heroin?
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highasfuk


Registered: 06/01/15
Posts: 349
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: drr] 2
#21906703 - 07/06/15 07:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just do some heroin its better
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drr

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: highasfuk]
#21906716 - 07/06/15 07:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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This is why I think there must be some drug elitist non-junkies out there smoking opium, there have to be some.
And no, I don't want to do heroin.
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Govam
Stranger
Registered: 05/23/15
Posts: 94
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: drr]
#21906767 - 07/06/15 07:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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/
Edited by Prisoner#1 (07/07/15 01:40 AM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: drr]
#21906811 - 07/06/15 07:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I had some in college about 40 years ago. I've put out feelers for more ever since. Never a hit. I don't really understand it. The shit is great but nobody has it.
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PLURAL
PLUR


Registered: 01/16/14
Posts: 31,320
Loc: PLUR
Last seen: 2 months, 28 days
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: drr] 1
#21906820 - 07/06/15 07:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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It probably is rare because heroin is more profitable to smuggle in.
Internet.
I got it a few times, all within a short period of time, a few years ago and havent seen it since.
-------------------- PLUR
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theonlysun81
Long Time Lurker, Recent Member


Registered: 05/11/12
Posts: 1,712
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: PLURAL]
#21906853 - 07/06/15 07:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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it is a weird question. I've got it at festivals, thats it.
the amish grow mad poppy plants too, i think they just refine it into heroin.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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I don't think the poppies they grow are opium poppies
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California
A E S T H E T I C S A T A N


Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 72,118
Loc: H A U N T E D H O U S E
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: zappaisgod]
#21906860 - 07/06/15 07:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I had some in college about 40 years ago. I've put out feelers for more ever since. Never a hit. I don't really understand it. The shit is great but nobody has it.
You could always you know, move to New Jersey. That shit has seemed to be there forever.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: California]
#21906864 - 07/06/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
California said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I had some in college about 40 years ago. I've put out feelers for more ever since. Never a hit. I don't really understand it. The shit is great but nobody has it.
You could always you know, move to New Jersey. That shit has seemed to be there forever.
Opium? Heroin is no problem but opium?
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theonlysun81
Long Time Lurker, Recent Member


Registered: 05/11/12
Posts: 1,712
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: zappaisgod]
#21906866 - 07/06/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I don't think the poppies they grow are opium poppies
the ones in the middle of their corn fields hidden from the roads are. In south easter pennsylvania the DEA is mostly concerned with the amish in regards to supplying poppies, weed and un taxed tobacco. they really take advantage of the not having to be regulated thing.
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 22,546
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Last seen: 2 minutes, 13 seconds
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Music festivals
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Malcolm_Xtasy
Oh baby what Is you doin??



Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 13,851
Loc:
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I stumbled across some opium my sophomore year of university. Haven't seen it since.
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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California
A E S T H E T I C S A T A N


Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 72,118
Loc: H A U N T E D H O U S E
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: zappaisgod]
#21906918 - 07/06/15 08:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Oh yeah. My bad.
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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the gov't grows poppies here
you think they're just mixing up random chemicals in the lab and coming out with that stuff
when all they have to do is do some extractions and throw some long lasting effects in there
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: Konyap]
#21907106 - 07/06/15 08:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Find old lady who grows poppies
score her pods at night, collect in early morning
?????
profit
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kakashi68
Connoiseur of Illicit Substances


Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 2,116
Loc: STRAYA
Last seen: 10 days, 6 hours
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there isnt really a demand for opium. Its quite costly. Because its so large and has very little demand unlike marijuana. The bulk makes it expensive to smuggle. so no one ends up buying it. This with the fact recreational users dont use it and junkies dont use it either because they would rather have cheap heroin. There is a niche for it but its EXTREMELY small.
-------------------- You know, just sometimes in between the first cigarette with coffee in the morning to that 400th glass of cornershop piss at 3am--you do sometimes look at yourself and think--this is fantastic. I'm in heaven. -Bernard Black
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: drr]
#21907524 - 07/06/15 09:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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When I lived in Thailand I used to hot knife, eat, drink opium quite often. It's very common all across Asia, Middle East, Eastern Africa, etc. Got some at a music festival a few years ago so I know it's around in the US. I've heard of people making it themselves too.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: kakashi68]
#21907525 - 07/06/15 09:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I fill that niche. Goddam that was a wonderful buzz. Heroin sucks. It makes me puke. IV Morphine is wonderful but I aint doing street dope in a dart ever. Codeine makes me puke even in low doses. But that opium...... She is a beautiful lady.
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drr

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: D.M.T]
#21907557 - 07/06/15 10:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
D.M.T said: When I lived in Thailand I used to hot knife, eat, drink opium quite often. It's very common all across Asia, Middle East, Eastern Africa, etc. Got some at a music festival a few years ago so I know it's around in the US. I've heard of people making it themselves too.
That's awesome. I guess the flip side of that coin is they'll cut your hands off if you get caught with weed?
Closest I've been, was a very strong poppy pod tea I drank once. It was 8 hours of pure euphoria, with some of the most pleasurable vomiting I thought was never possible.
I'd really like to smoke it, though.
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: drr]
#21907577 - 07/06/15 10:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Not in Thailand. The police probably wouldn't know it's weed. The flip side is it's like getting that Mexican brick you used to smoke in junior high. Well, most likely if you don't have a good hookup. I had a friend who grew weed in the communal garden and it was straight dank. The villages other gardeners thought it was hemp and never questioned it.
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JvF
Fletcher Detcher


Registered: 02/13/14
Posts: 2,662
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: D.M.T]
#21907583 - 07/06/15 10:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Make some yourself.
Buy some dried poppy pods online for decorative purposes
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,561
Loc: Utah
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: drr] 1
#21907596 - 07/06/15 10:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Don't you remember when this place went through a huge thing with people using pods? Seemed like tons and tons of members were buying pods. I think someone cracked down on that because it seemed to die out, but I bet that you can still get pods from somewhere. Or you can grow them.
However, do you really want to get involved with an opiate? You know how many people here have problems with opiates. You've seen the struggles people go through on here.
Do you really want to have those problems in your own life?
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JvF
Fletcher Detcher


Registered: 02/13/14
Posts: 2,662
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: nooneman]
#21907605 - 07/06/15 10:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: Do you really want to get involved with an opiate? You know how many people here have problems with opiates. You've seen the struggles people go through on here.
Do you really want to have those problems in your own life?
^^^^^ Even kratom is bad, people get WDs like a mofo on that.
Stick to the green mang
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LuSiD enthusiast
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/13
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: JvF]
#21907664 - 07/06/15 10:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
jfischer218 said:
Quote:
nooneman said: Do you really want to get involved with an opiate? You know how many people here have problems with opiates. You've seen the struggles people go through on here.
Do you really want to have those problems in your own life?
^^^^^ Even kratom is bad, people get WDs like a mofo on that.
Stick to the green mang
For a second i thought you said "stick to the green maeng" and forgot to add the "da", like i thought you thought a specific kratom strain wouldn't give wd.
-------------------- I'm addicted to coke, weed, booze, ludes and speed. Not LSD, you can't get addicted to LSD, it was built by scientists. I ain't got no demons that gonna get woke. In erowid we trust. Just take your damn pills and don't ask any questions, you'll be fine.
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drr

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: JvF]
#21907682 - 07/06/15 10:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: Don't you remember when this place went through a huge thing with people using pods? Seemed like tons and tons of members were buying pods. I think someone cracked down on that because it seemed to die out, but I bet that you can still get pods from somewhere. Or you can grow them.
However, do you really want to get involved with an opiate? You know how many people here have problems with opiates. You've seen the struggles people go through on here.
Do you really want to have those problems in your own life?
Quote:
jfischer218 said:
Quote:
nooneman said: Do you really want to get involved with an opiate? You know how many people here have problems with opiates. You've seen the struggles people go through on here.
Do you really want to have those problems in your own life?
^^^^^ Even kratom is bad, people get WDs like a mofo on that.
Stick to the green mang
About dried pods, yes I remember the hype and I had a friend who was using them, which is where I tried my one cup of strong pod tea, which I loved. But I never got around to ordering them at the time because I had access to all kinds of drugs, and it wasn't high on my list. But now I might consider it, if I could really make smokeable opium from the dried pods.
But I totally agree, on both of your points about playing with opiates.
I guess since it's so hard to come across, I figured it would be nice to try it, by chance - just to have a gram or whatever, to experiment with on a weekend or a few weekends.
I've been through it with kratom - I took it daily for a year and quit cold turkey. I don't really think it was that bad quitting, but I know opiates are a different thing. Now I will take kratom maybe once a month here or there, or less, it really doesn't matter. It isn't a daily thing, it hasn't become a problem again for me and I don't plan on doing it again regularly - it just doesn't appeal to me that much anymore. Same goes for alcohol - I use it sparingly, more than kratom, but at most once or twice a week, and not huge amounts at all. I keep some etizolam on hand in case I have a nasty anxiety attack, as a safety net for tripping, or for the odd saturday that I want to be a zombie. The only thing I want to do regularly, is smoke grass. I love it and it shines some light on my life. But I do like to experiment a little bit, and I do enjoy opiates here and there. I can't handle taking LSD every weekend anymore. or even... at all, LOL! I don't need to. When I do, it will be a special occasion. I like to do feel-good things once in a while, for the fuck of it, and not make a regular thing out of them. I think I have a pretty good balance going with my drug use but I see the need to be very cautious, and I definitely am.
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JvF
Fletcher Detcher


Registered: 02/13/14
Posts: 2,662
Loc: Chicago
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Quote:
LuSiD enthusiast said:
Quote:
jfischer218 said:
Quote:
nooneman said: Do you really want to get involved with an opiate? You know how many people here have problems with opiates. You've seen the struggles people go through on here.
Do you really want to have those problems in your own life?
^^^^^ Even kratom is bad, people get WDs like a mofo on that.
Stick to the green mang
For a second i thought you said "stick to the green maeng" and forgot to add the "da", like i thought you thought a specific kratom strain wouldn't give wd.

Thats not true?!?!?!###
Im fucked!!!!!
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Acaterpillar
A little mad...



Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 18,693
Loc: Down the rabbit hole
Last seen: 3 months, 27 days
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: JvF]
#21907698 - 07/06/15 10:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I thought I got some at a festival once; but after doing some reading online I'm suspicious that I was just sold an imitation. protip: If you're sold opium, taste it (don't eat it). Contrary to the floral smell, it tastes horribly bitter; Imitations will taste bland.
I got seeds this summer to try making some from scratch. Because of where I live, I've had to wait till fall.
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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Acaterpillar
A little mad...



Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 18,693
Loc: Down the rabbit hole
Last seen: 3 months, 27 days
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Quote:
LuSiD enthusiast said:
Quote:
jfischer218 said:
Quote:
nooneman said: Do you really want to get involved with an opiate? You know how many people here have problems with opiates. You've seen the struggles people go through on here.
Do you really want to have those problems in your own life?
^^^^^ Even kratom is bad, people get WDs like a mofo on that.
Stick to the green mang
For a second i thought you said "stick to the green maeng" and forgot to add the "da"
I thought the same thing. I just love the kratom too much maeng
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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TrippieHunter
Swagger of a cripple


Registered: 04/05/15
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i've seen it a couple times on the "other" internet. Not sure I would buy it, but it is there.
-------------------- Just remember keep the camera rolling and FILM THE POLICE!!! CLICK ME WHO'S SIDE ARE YOU ON? CLICK ME TOO! Let it go and you will trip into wonderland!
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MagicalOrangutan
Curious Cat



Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 3,538
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To hell with all opiates and opioids, united only by their similarly hideous nasty feeling highs and tendency to make people their slaves. Even people who claim to enjoy this class of drugs claim it messes with their stomachs and makes their skin itch, and is dependence causing very strongly and rapidly. Retarded. No I'm not a "drug elitist" either, I idioticly enjoy cocaine on occasion.
But it'd be nice to see all opiates/opioids vanish from existence or at the very least somehow only be used by people who have zero other good option for pain relief, although I feel that even morphine or heroin or oxycontin don't relieve genuine pain that well in my humble experience, certainly no more so than mere over the counter pain relief medications.
Let alone high quality indica weed, which also stops nausea instead of fucking CAUSING God awful terrible nausea like opiates/opioids seem to!!!
Overall point...this class of drugs in it's entirety is far more of a detriment than a benefit to mankind and feel most people of intelligence should agree with me, tho anyone should have the right to put that in their own bodies if they wanna
-------------------- On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky We all need more love, and mainly less hate Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye That makes the heart's eye cry Locked deep away in the skies of our minds It's all in the mind
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kakashi68
Connoiseur of Illicit Substances


Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 2,116
Loc: STRAYA
Last seen: 10 days, 6 hours
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Quote:
MagicalOrangutan said: To hell with all opiates and opioids, united only by their similarly hideous nasty feeling highs and tendency to make people their slaves. Even people who claim to enjoy this class of drugs claim it messes with their stomachs and makes their skin itch, and is dependence causing very strongly and rapidly. Retarded. No I'm not a "drug elitist" either, I idioticly enjoy cocaine on occasion.
But it'd be nice to see all opiates/opioids vanish from existence or at the very least somehow only be used by people who have zero other good option for pain relief, although I feel that even morphine or heroin or oxycontin don't relieve genuine pain that well in my humble experience, certainly no more so than mere over the counter pain relief medications.
Let alone high quality indica weed, which also stops nausea instead of fucking CAUSING God awful terrible nausea like opiates/opioids seem to!!!
Overall point...this class of drugs in it's entirety is far more of a detriment than a benefit to mankind and feel most people of intelligence should agree with me, tho anyone should have the right to put that in their own bodies if they wanna
you are so wrong. If we didnt have morphine there would be SO MUCH more suffering, nothing compares in pain relief.
-------------------- You know, just sometimes in between the first cigarette with coffee in the morning to that 400th glass of cornershop piss at 3am--you do sometimes look at yourself and think--this is fantastic. I'm in heaven. -Bernard Black
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ThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth


Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 11,904
Loc: All Good in Allgood
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: kakashi68]
#21908185 - 07/07/15 03:00 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I can't believe it's been two pages and no one's recommended botany . . .
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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MagicalOrangutan
Curious Cat



Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 3,538
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Morphine doesn't relieve pain any more than very good weed plus alcohol combination in my humble experience and besides, it overall makes me feel like shit. Different people react differently. But overall more people use this class of drugs to make losers out off themselves than to benefit themselves and like I said there's safer ways of relieving pain I feel, unless your physiology requires you to exclusively use opiates to relieve pain to a satisfactory extent.
-------------------- On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky We all need more love, and mainly less hate Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye That makes the heart's eye cry Locked deep away in the skies of our minds It's all in the mind
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PanzerCubed



Registered: 11/22/12
Posts: 2,285
Loc: Nauru
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Without opiates in the world i think a lot of stuff would not have happened, imagine having a giant gash in your back and only being handed a joint for pain relief or alcohol which is a lot more dangerous then pharmaceutical pain medication. 
As for opium i find doing it your self is a greater reward then finding some off the street, it is also a great feeling when you manage to harvest more then enough to last you the year.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: drr] 1
#21908230 - 07/07/15 03:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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MagicalOrangutan
Curious Cat



Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 3,538
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: Asante]
#21908239 - 07/07/15 04:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Opiates never were any miracle relief for pain for me then again I only ever had a dislocated shoulder pain, not any broken bones or such. I feel as though the overall horrid "high" that the class of drugs gives me wouldn't even be worth that anyways
-------------------- On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky We all need more love, and mainly less hate Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye That makes the heart's eye cry Locked deep away in the skies of our minds It's all in the mind
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daz01
Learning


Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 4,652
Loc: Scotland
Last seen: 7 hours, 55 minutes
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Opium rocks. I've smoked it free times, all from scoring my own pods. Much more euphoric and sleep-inducing than poppy pod tea, doesn't last as long though of course. It's so elusive because heroin is cheaper to produce in poppy-growing countries and if someone grows the poppies themselves, they probably keep it for themselves.
-------------------- Pain is temporary. It may last for a minute or an hour or a day or even a year but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it will last forever.
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already



Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
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Re: Why is opium so elusive [Re: daz01]
#21908350 - 07/07/15 05:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just when you're ready to tive up on finding illegal stuff, it finds you. I wanted an L connect for so long. Gave up, now I have one. Hell, I live in rural fucking Canada and I had my first(and only) sherm high a few weeks ago. It was great. Did I ever think I'd see that shit? LOL no
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ThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth


Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 11,904
Loc: All Good in Allgood
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Man, I ain't had any Wet since I was 14! I miss that shit.
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already



Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
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No doubt man. I can see now why there's so much negative propaganda about this one, it's too good of a high.
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hex_enduction
satta massa gana


Registered: 01/26/14
Posts: 12,051
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Sounds nuts. Can you compare it to the other dissociatives (if you've tried any) or is it in a league of its own? I highly doubt I'll ever sample the stuff.
On topic, opium is high up on my list to try. Sounds like crazy stuff. I think I've seen a tek somewhere on how to extract it from seeds or pods, seems fairly simple.
--------------------
Connoisseur said: oh ive cried on drugs sunshine said: Tragic. I told the cop not to do it but he didn't listen.
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LuSiD enthusiast
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/13
Posts: 4,325
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Quote:
XLCaps said: Just when you're ready to tive up on finding illegal stuff, it finds you. I wanted an L connect for so long. Gave up, now I have one. Hell, I live in rural fucking Canada and I had my first(and only) sherm high a few weeks ago. It was great. Did I ever think I'd see that shit? LOL no
That's so fucking true. Also when im meeting a dealer, I'll hit them up, they respond and set up time and location. I go there right on time and wait. 5 min. 10Min. 15 Min. I say fuck this and start my car up and its always immediately "alright walk over to my car I'm on x side of the lot."
-------------------- I'm addicted to coke, weed, booze, ludes and speed. Not LSD, you can't get addicted to LSD, it was built by scientists. I ain't got no demons that gonna get woke. In erowid we trust. Just take your damn pills and don't ask any questions, you'll be fine.
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praxadox
Stranger

Registered: 11/22/13
Posts: 19
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Quote:
XLCaps said: No doubt man. I can see now why there's so much negative propaganda about this one, it's too good of a high.
It never seemed as though the quality of the high had much to do with the propaganda, though. It has always been more about individuals taking way too much and having a negative response.
Edited by praxadox (11/22/15 03:35 PM)
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