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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Registered: 11/05/03
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The Poor and Self-Sufficiency
    #2190617 - 12/19/03 03:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I have long noticed a recurring trend here is that people on welfare should not be made to do any sort of work to recieve their benefits. It seems that this carries over to other aspects of welfare life as well.

When I was growing up, I had numerous friends who were either on welfare or who were barely above the poverty line. I recall going to one friends house one time, and the parents complaining about not having enough money to buy all the food that they wanted. These people lived in a 2 story house (somewhat rundown) that had a large tool shed and about 2 acres of property, with 1 acre being hilly and the area surrounding the house being flat and growing grass, no trees.

I always wondered how people could say something like that, and not do what they can to produce their own foods. I have a 10x20' garden plot outdoors on my small piece of land and I manage to produce enough veggies and fruits that I end up giving alot of it away to my neighbors. I manage to can some of the food each year, and I trade some of my crop to local farmers who produce things that I don't have the spaces or the resources to grow (Apples, for example). Now I have an indoor garden with aloe plants that I harvest regularly and extract the aloe from, indoor vermicompost heap that I toss all of my food waste into, and my grocery bill is quite low. I also manage to hunt for a few days a year, depending on my schedule, and fill my freezer with venison, duck, goose, salmon and bass. Not to mention the delicious, very potent, cornmash liquor that I made from the corn in my garden

As an experiment, I tried to imagine myself as living in an apartment in a city, something of comperable size to a "project" apartment. I believe that alot of the poor people in this nation live in places where they can grow crops, but this is for the tenement dwellers.

I managed to grow enough indoor food that I didn't have to buy many veggies (Except somewhat exotic ones) from the store. I vermicomposted the waste from it and used it in future gardens.

If the people on welfare, as people here declare, are so anxious to work and get off of the system, why don't they take any job that htey can find, and produce as much for themselves as possible? I think that people on welfare, actually, everyone ideally, should try to produce as much for themselves as they can. I know right now that, should an incident happen where procuring food from the grocery store is impossible, I could eat well for many months with my canned foods, fresh indoorgrown veggies, and frozen and preserved meats.


--------------------
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: The Poor and Self-Sufficiency [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2190665 - 12/19/03 03:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

A long time ago, when humans lived in a more rugged situation(what I
like to call the "state of nature"), they were willing to do what
they had to do to survive. Oftentimes that included busting
their asses to hunt or farm. Nowadays, the majority of people
don't have to do such labor-intensive stuff.

I have come to the conclusion that most people will do what they
have to do to survive. People on welfare don't have to do much.
They have never been forced to do much, so they don't do anything.

We are much more picky today in what we are willing to put up with
than our ancestors were. We have become lazy.


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Registered: 11/05/03
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Re: The Poor and Self-Sufficiency [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2190681 - 12/19/03 03:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

That is actually the correct answer entirely. I bet if someone suggested to welfare people that they do everything they can to produce their own food, they'd balk and be upset. How dare they actually work for their keep!


--------------------
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: The Poor and Self-Sufficiency [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2190763 - 12/19/03 04:11 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

They have never been forced to do much, so they don't do anything.

By "anything" what do you mean?

We pay people welfare so we don't have thousands of starving people willing to do any work at any price, which would drop everyone elses wages through the floor.


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: The Poor and Self-Sufficiency [Re: Xlea321]
    #2190783 - 12/19/03 04:17 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Anything as in work. These people aren't out trying to find any job that they can to get off of public assistance, they want to either find a job that pays GREAT (with their lack fo training and education), or continue to live on welfare.

what a surprise that Alex doesn't comment upon welfare people doing what htey can to contribute... I seem to think in another thread he was horrified by this idea! Imagine, WORKING for what you have! Humph!


--------------------
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: The Poor and Self-Sufficiency [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2190825 - 12/19/03 04:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, imagine thousands of starving people willing to work for a bowl of soup of day. Soon MILLIONS MORE would be working for a bowl of soup a day as they lose their jobs when employers realise they can pay someone with a bowl of soup instead of paying a living wage.

Understand the problem?


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: The Poor and Self-Sufficiency [Re: Xlea321]
    #2190846 - 12/19/03 04:41 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, "The Grapes of Wrath" very clearly illustrated that point.

Alex, how about you stop fucking derailing threads? Hows that for a nifty new idea?

how about you ACTUALLY say "Wow, people on welfare making their own food, doing with what they have, saving money, thus being able to work jobs that pay less is great"? Of course not, you have to nitpick and get your idology in here as well. I realize that working for what you have is a horrible idelogy to have when you are a <censored>, but thats the way the world works. Would you liek it better if I said to let the grapes wither on the vine?


--------------------
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: The Poor and Self-Sufficiency [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2190892 - 12/19/03 04:59 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, "The Grapes of Wrath" very clearly illustrated that point.

What are you talking about?

how about you ACTUALLY say "Wow, people on welfare making their own food, doing with what they have, saving money, thus being able to work jobs that pay less is great"?

Because it isn't. If anyone wants to grow their own food that's great. If it's an excuse to cut welfare and make people work for less then it destroys everyone else's jobs. It really isn't that complex.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: The Poor and Self-Sufficiency [Re: Xlea321]
    #2190910 - 12/19/03 05:04 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Yes, imagine thousands of starving people willing to work for a bowl of soup of day. Soon MILLIONS MORE would be working for a bowl of soup a day as they lose their jobs when employers realise they can pay someone with a bowl of soup instead of paying a living wage.

Understand the problem?




Imagine the productivity gains if workers would work for a bowl of soup a day. Then shareholders (who are not obliged to lift a finger, BTW) could make even more money!

No wonder they advocate workfare!

Seriously folks...
If only people who constantly look for social parasites would concentrate on the money lending class...we might get somewhere.


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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Anonymous

Re: The Poor and Self-Sufficiency [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2190915 - 12/19/03 05:06 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

i'm interested in aloe-vera too.i love how they have the woody stem part growing out the middle.do you grow from the seeds or let them grow free?
whats your methods for storing and extracting the juice?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: The Poor and Self-Sufficiency [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2190923 - 12/19/03 05:08 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Imagine the productivity gains if workers would work for a bowl of soup a day. Then shareholders (who are not obliged to lift a finger, BTW) could make even more money!

Yeah it wouldn't it be GREAT!! Millions of starving people all working for a bowl of soup a day.

Sounds like Neocon paradise...


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: The Poor and Self-Sufficiency [Re: Xlea321]
    #2190991 - 12/19/03 05:53 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
Yes, "The Grapes of Wrath" very clearly illustrated that point.

What are you talking about?
Quote:


Well, their was a guy named John Steinbeck, and he wrote those thingies with words in them and paper and words and bindings and such. I believe they are called "books". The best book he wrote was called "The Grapes of Wrath". I'm actually sure you would like it, as it describes the Dust Bowl in America and the migration westward. When the thousands of people that left their homes in Oklahoma and elsewhere got to california, the wages were set at dirt cheap. You actually probably would like it.

how about you ACTUALLY say "Wow, people on welfare making their own food, doing with what they have, saving money, thus being able to work jobs that pay less is great"?

Because it isn't. If anyone wants to grow their own food that's great. If it's an excuse to cut welfare and make people work for less then it destroys everyone else's jobs. It really isn't that complex.




Alex, i'm gonna get banned if I reply to ya....

"Work for less"...
uhgh


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Registered: 11/05/03
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Re: The Poor and Self-Sufficiency [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2192781 - 12/20/03 01:24 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

carbonhoots said:

Understand the problem?




No wonder they advocate workfare!

Seriously folks...
If only people who constantly look for social parasites would concentrate on the money lending class...we might get somewhere.




I see. Well, lets say that the rich people STOPPEd lending money. Cars cost about 15K starting, houses about 60K, who'd be able to have houses and cars then? Only the rich people. Who'd pay into the coffers that pay outfor welfare if the rich people stopped working? Noone. If the rich stopped working, America would come to a screeching, grinding halt and all the rich people would continue to survive, and the poor leeches wouldn't. Now, the poor leeches currecntly aren't doing anything, so it's not even possible to ask what would happen if they stopped work, and how that would affect rich people.

Do you have a car loan? mortgage? If so, thank the rich.


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