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nwalker248
Solo Trekker



Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 396
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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'is this actually real or just the drug' 2
#21906092 - 07/06/15 05:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just something to think about. We are we are 100% deterministic. Every non-drug induced thought you've ever had has come from chemicals you had in your body; Free will isn't something scientifically valid.
When somebody asks 'Is this all real or is it just the drug', it makes no sense. Every experience and general perception is in a way, just a mix of and a balance of interacting chemicals. When you add different chemicals, all it does is change the balance. A psychedelic experience is no more real than normal life, only that this is almost the 'optimal' balance to keep you sane (well, that's how I see it. When they get knocked is when mental illness can manifest. Imagine your sanity in a constant trip). Meditation, Mental work, drugs, they all do the same thing to change someones perception.
There's lots to be said on the subject of free will and perception, and this is quite an airy esoteric, and very scientifically simplified way to put it. But It has a point I feel.
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Edited by nwalker248 (07/06/15 05:03 PM)
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
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Re: 'is this actually real or just the drug' [Re: nwalker248]
#21906213 - 07/06/15 05:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's one way of looking at it, but its not the only way nor is the way I choose.
I believe in free will, to quote Bentinho Massaro "There is nothing but free will".
Its kind of hard to explain but when you get rid of the idea of seperation and stop imagining that you are something separate that is controlled by your brain chemistry, you can realize that your own freedom is fundamental to reality.
Another way of putting it is that free will is the dieform soul's ability to direct itself toward whatever it pleases.
Determinism is irrelevant from this point of view. Don't get caught in thinking your point of view is the final truth, because there's always another way to look at things.
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nwalker248
Solo Trekker



Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 396
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: 'is this actually real or just the drug' [Re: Deviate]
#21906382 - 07/06/15 06:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: That's one way of looking at it, but its not the only way nor is the way I choose.
I believe in free will, to quote Bentinho Massaro "There is nothing but free will".
Its kind of hard to explain but when you get rid of the idea of seperation and stop imagining that you are something separate that is controlled by your brain chemistry, you can realize that your own freedom is fundamental to reality.
Another way of putting it is that free will is the dieform soul's ability to direct itself toward whatever it pleases.
Determinism is irrelevant from this point of view. Don't get caught in thinking your point of view is the final truth, because there's always another way to look at things.
Just to comment on that last part. Honestly, with a lot of what I say It's not a case of believing it or devoting myself to them at all. When it comes to the unknown and things I can't really 'overstand' I just throw ideas out that people may be able to get something from. Best to keep yourself as open as possible to ideas I say.
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Eggtimer
HotSauce Lover

Registered: 05/04/13
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Re: 'is this actually real or just the drug' [Re: nwalker248]
#21907040 - 07/06/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You don't know enough not to have free will.
If you don't like the idea you have no free will well you can choose not to believe it 
Ought implies can but you don't have to so that's kinda like freewill.
As far as drugs just being in your head wellllll The whole program is in your head start to finish. Every single thing you see around you right now probably came out of someones head. Language came out of someones head and it wasn't always here. Language replaces reality with itself and makes you think language is reality. Reality came before language though. The better question "is anything real at all."
-------------------- It's all for the s
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,808
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Re: 'is this actually real or just the drug' [Re: nwalker248]
#21907142 - 07/06/15 08:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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When somebody asks 'Is this all real or is it just the drug' it does make sense.
On any normal day the chemicals in their brain and normal and allow for normal function. When you add chemicals into the brain (drugs) that balance is temporarily changed and effects result.
Drugs amplify experience. If there were no drugs, those amplified experiences would not be experienced which is why I would say that yes, it is the drug.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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ergoticmandala



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Re: 'is this actually real or just the drug' [Re: sudly]
#21908518 - 07/07/15 07:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I agree with OP because we have DMT in our systems which can release by people doing certain things. So just meditating which can change perception is not drug induced, so I would say yes the drugs may change brain chemistry but they might not always have been what changed our perception. Remember placebo effect, that dosen't change brain chemistry with drugs
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qweqaz
Break-through


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Re: 'is this actually real or just the drug' [Re: ergoticmandala]
#21910537 - 07/07/15 04:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Edited by qweqaz (07/07/15 04:56 PM)
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
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Re: 'is this actually real or just the drug' [Re: nwalker248]
#21910803 - 07/07/15 05:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nwalker248 said: We are we are 100% deterministic.
No we aren't. It might seem that way sometimes, and it can be a convenient excuse for all kinds of nonsense, but quantum physics is probabilistic, not deterministic, and everything stems from it, including the next word that I
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Starless
Faux Philosophe



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Re: 'is this actually real or just the drug' [Re: PrimalSoup]
#21910881 - 07/07/15 05:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
nwalker248 said: We are we are 100% deterministic.
No we aren't. It might seem that way sometimes, and it can be a convenient excuse for all kinds of nonsense, but quantum physics is probabilistic, not deterministic, and everything stems from it, including the next word that I
I still suspect that quantum mechanics has a predictable pattern like everything else, we just don't have the technology or understanding to see it yet. This pattern may lie in superstring theory, multiverse theory, dark matter and energy, or an as yet undiscovered scientific idea. Hyper-dimensional fractal patterns resonating at high frequencies would be extremely difficult to make sense of, and could easily be mistaken as probabilistic, especially if we are confined to a measly 3-brane. Just
-------------------- Think, it ain't illegal yet. - George Clinton Substances I have allegedly taken: Cannabis (bud, edibles, and concentrates), Mushrooms (P. Cubensis), LSD, ETH-LAD, ALD-52, DMT, MDMA, Mescaline (Peruvian Torch), 25I-NBOMe, Salvia Divinorum (10x), Syrian Rue, Amanita Muscaria (10x), Cocaine, Nightshade (Henbane). All posts are hypothetical or entirely fictional.
Edited by Starless (07/07/15 06:00 PM)
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
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Re: 'is this actually real or just the drug' [Re: Starless]
#21912272 - 07/07/15 10:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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"Everything else" is a result of quantum action, an illusion of Newtonian determinism in the macro realm, and not a valid intuitive guide to some underlying structure...

It doesn't of course mean that QM is the last word, but so far it's stood the test of time.
Psychedelics OTOH can bring that indeterminacy to the foreground so it's really no surprise it's such a surprise to experience it directly.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (07/07/15 10:33 PM)
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