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OfflinePatlal
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Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up * 1
    #21904703 - 07/06/15 09:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

There is only one solution for Greece and its called austerity. Massive cuts in order to bring back its economy.

They voted no...

Now Germany is pissed off because these assholes wont take responsibility for their own stupid decisions.

Instead they seem to be counting on a bailout from other countries or something... Assholes

What do you think of that attitude?

I


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #21904719 - 07/06/15 09:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

This American Life did an episode about the euro and about how Greece fucked up. Very educational

http://m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/455/continental-breakup


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #21904736 - 07/06/15 09:55 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
There is only one solution for Greece and its called austerity. Massive cuts in order to bring back its economy.

They voted no...

Now Germany is pissed off because these assholes wont take responsibility for their own stupid decisions.

Instead they seem to be counting on a bailout from other countries or something... Assholes

What do you think of that attitude?

I





what's that? the welfare state wants to stay on welfare instead of getting a job like everyone else


burn greece to the ground


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InvisibleSrirachi
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21904754 - 07/06/15 10:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I think it is a bunch of bullshit that people who loaned money to Greece expect that money to be paid back as agreed. Personally, whenever I borrow money, I try to find a way to fuck my kid into paying it back.

This is the attitude Americans voted for in the last 2 elections. We're next. The sum total of all the gold, silver, platinum, rhodium, and palladium the world has ever mined is worth less than the U.S. National Debt. In fact, if you throw in all the precious metals we know exist but have not mined, it still won't pay the debt.

Think about that - if the United States owned every shred of precious metal that ever was or ever will be mined, it still wouldn't be enough to pay off the National Debt.

I'm not surprised by Greece's attitude at all. The "Let me have it but make someone else pay for it" attitude is why they ass raped Cypress, it's why they're broke now, and it's why they won't make sacrifices to fix the problem.

Sadly, no one will learn anything. :shrug:


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21904757 - 07/06/15 10:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Austerity is a failed policy. Europe took took the path of austerity after the 2008 collapse, while the US took on one of stimulus. Which policy worked out better?

Conservative ideology is not the one you want to follow when you need to fix an economy. :cookiemonster:


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (07/06/15 10:06 AM)


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #21904766 - 07/06/15 10:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The hole argument for austerity was based on one research paper that turned out to be fraudulent. Greece made the right decision. You guys are just butthurt because you can't vote Putin into office for yourselves.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/04/grad-student-who-shook-global-austerity-movement.html


Edited by Mr.GuessWork (07/06/15 10:04 AM)


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InvisibleSrirachi
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21904770 - 07/06/15 10:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

So the solution to not having enough money is to borrow more money is what you guys are saying.

Holy shit, I didn't think anyone but a politician could think like that.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Srirachi] * 1
    #21904774 - 07/06/15 10:07 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Whether you like it or not, government spending has proven to be the best way to recover from economic downturns.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Srirachi] * 1
    #21904779 - 07/06/15 10:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The world debt-based economy doesn't work. You have a small handful of people (who own the banks / printing presses) forcing economic debt slavery on all of the citizens of Greece, based on decisions that were made by easily-corrupted asshats in their government.

The people of Greece did the right thing by saying "Oxi"

Fuck the IMF, they are truly evil.


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Srirachi]
    #21904781 - 07/06/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I don't understand the intricacies of the better plans, but observational evidence supports the idea that austerity clearly doesn't work.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21904787 - 07/06/15 10:12 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

People don't like to spend more money to fix a problem even if all the evidence and historical record shows that is exactly how these problems are resolved.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21904793 - 07/06/15 10:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Whether you like it or not, government spending has proven to be the best way to recover from economic downturns.




It's kind of like giving oxygen to a person who can't breathe well. When they recover they can breath on their own again. When you withhold oxygen, the person either dies or develops chronic problems that end up causing more problems  for everybody else in the long run.


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21904811 - 07/06/15 10:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
People don't like to spend more money to fix a problem even if all the evidence and historical record shows that is exactly how these problems are resolved.




At least Russia gets it.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21904828 - 07/06/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If Obama didn't stand up to the idiots in congress who insisted we follow Europe into austerity we would have had a double dip recession like Europe.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlineipraytomushrooms
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21904830 - 07/06/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Austerity is crippling for economies. The EU wants to impose harsher and harsher austerity measures, and as the Greek people have already seen, austerity does not work.

At least a default and exit from the eurozone will allow the Greeks to take fate into their own hands and for the economy to begin to grow in the future.

Americans and westerners as a whole (like Patlal) tend to have a lack of understanding in the situation and just write it off as the Greeks being lazy and needing to pay their debts, which is more or less impossible at this point due to the substantial amount of debt they've acquired.


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:leaf:


Edited by ipraytomushrooms (07/06/15 10:31 AM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21904832 - 07/06/15 10:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah it's like the Greek people infiltrated wall street to cause a global recession, then forced themselves to pay those same banks billions from their own pockets.

Stupid idiot head Greeks.

http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/greece-what-you-are-not-being-told-by-the-media/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Patlal]
    #21904836 - 07/06/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
There is only one solution for Greece and its called austerity. Massive cuts in order to bring back its economy.

They voted no...

Now Germany is pissed off because these assholes wont take responsibility for their own stupid decisions.

Instead they seem to be counting on a bailout from other countries or something... Assholes

What do you think of that attitude?

I




Give me one example where austerity has ever worked. Even the bankers have admitted it's not a solution.

Easier for the banks to blame the populace for their fuckups though


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InvisibleSrirachi
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21904842 - 07/06/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know how you do it, Pris. I'd be so banned...

I'm out. I'm going to go make some money instead of argue with people that believe paying interest is a good way to get rich.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21904845 - 07/06/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Private equity was once again at the center of the European crisis. Lending at ridiculously low rates to take advantage of people who just wanted a piece of the dream.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Srirachi]
    #21904850 - 07/06/15 10:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Srirachi said:
I don't know how you do it, Pris. I'd be so banned...

I'm out. I'm going to go make some money instead of argue with people that believe paying interest is a good way to get rich.




Actually it is really the only way to get rich. Without credit, the only people who can afford to buy something of value are people who are already rich. Credit is the cornerstone of every economy.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods] * 1
    #21904853 - 07/06/15 10:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Private equity was once again at the center of the European crisis. Lending at ridiculously low rates to take advantage of people who just wanted a piece of the dream.




1. Increase lending
2. Let bubble burst
3. Pull credit
4. Buy up everything for pennies on the dollar

Extra credit: get the same public you just screwed over to give you trillions and tell them to be grateful for it.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21904857 - 07/06/15 10:36 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Credit Is good. Unregulated credit is very bad.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21904860 - 07/06/15 10:37 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

^Ya. The idea is that money should be lent to people who will use that money to generate revenues that exceed the interest rate, so the borrow can pay the interest AND make a profit for themselves. The model has flaws in it, and it can be abused to everyone's detriment, but if you look at the history, credit actually evolved before currency did. That's because credit is necessary for economic function.


Edited by Mr.GuessWork (07/06/15 10:39 AM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21904866 - 07/06/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Without credit, it is very difficult for an economy to grow. It is very hard to create value.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21904882 - 07/06/15 10:46 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Interest on borrowed money is a newer idea though, and it's value is less clear to me. I guess it allows for higher levels of organisation to better manage credit on a larger scale, but it also creates a lot more potential for credit be abused. I'm guessing we'll get it figured out a little better over the next few centuries.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Srirachi]
    #21904922 - 07/06/15 11:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Srirachi said:
I don't know how you do it, Pris. I'd be so banned...

I'm out. I'm going to go make some money instead of argue with people that believe paying interest is a good way to get rich.



you're just gonna go an "make it" eh? just magic, poof! money!


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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21905004 - 07/06/15 11:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

op has no understanding whatsoever of the greek situation. or he just made the title so it would stir up his thread.


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #21905017 - 07/06/15 11:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Patlal is usually better informed and wiser than this with his political and economic topics. Maybe he's becoming an American.


Edited by Mr.GuessWork (07/06/15 11:42 AM)


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Vsnares.Zappa] * 1
    #21905030 - 07/06/15 11:46 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know why people are bashing austerity so much. It's actually the RIGHT thing to do BY FAR.

If anyone bothered to look at the numbers you would realize that the EU and the US had practically the same growth rebound. The ony difference is that the US endebte itself madly to get the same results.

In 2012, the EU suffered because of Spain, Greece and France but it only knocked off 1% growth compared to the US.

Whoever says that spending money you don't have  is the best way to get out of debt is mad.


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Offlineipraytomushrooms
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Patlal]
    #21905041 - 07/06/15 11:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:


Whoever says that spending money you don't have  is the best way to get out of debt is mad.




No one ever said that.


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:leaf:


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #21905063 - 07/06/15 11:59 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
There is only one solution for Greece and its called austerity. Massive cuts in order to bring back its economy.

They voted no...

Now Germany is pissed off because these assholes wont take responsibility for their own stupid decisions.

Instead they seem to be counting on a bailout from other countries or something... Assholes

What do you think of that attitude?

I




Give me one example where austerity has ever worked. Even the bankers have admitted it's not a solution.

Easier for the banks to blame the populace for their fuckups though




Bankers will never back austerity, dod you know why? Because they are the one's lending money with interest. When the government isn't spending more than it has, banks don't make money. The bread and butter of every bank on earth is debt.

Example 1: Canada.

After the bailout of 2009 (which was forced on us because the US did it first), the Conservative spent next to nothing every single year. No fancy multibillion dollar projects. Instead the paid the deficit year after year and lowered taxes everywhere. Guess what happened? Canada is in better shape than every other country and is attracting businesses from all over due to the lowest business tax rate (ever I believe). Sure it's not Greek austerity since we were better from the start but still, no spending, eliminate the deficit, lower taxes, attract businesses, people have more cash in their pockets.


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Patlal]
    #21905073 - 07/06/15 12:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
I don't know why people are bashing austerity so much. It's actually the RIGHT thing to do BY FAR.

If anyone bothered to look at the numbers you would realize that the EU and the US had practically the same growth rebound. The ony difference is that the US endebte itself madly to get the same results.

In 2012, the EU suffered because of Spain, Greece and France but it only knocked off 1% growth compared to the US.

Whoever says that spending money you don't have  is the best way to get out of debt is mad.




Austerity seems to have been working well for Greece, huh?

You need to use a bigger sample to get the right answer out of that argument you made. I'm pretty sure that the link I posted before referred to a study that was done on most of the countries world wide (at least all the major ones), and it showed that government spending works overall. I'm pretty sure there's a large body of evidence to support that. Did you know that the fraudulent study that was used to support austerity for Greece excluded economic data from Canada (among other major countries like Australia) to arrive at their bogus conclusion.

Spending money you don't have when you haven't got enough money to run the country is probably the only way to get out of debt. Economic growth requires investment.

Quote:

Patlal said:
I don't know why people are bashing austerity so much. It's actually the RIGHT thing to do BY FAR.




And why is it a good idea? Sure it's good for the EU in the short term, but it totally fucks Greece. They're way better off with the deal from Russia.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Patlal]
    #21905098 - 07/06/15 12:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
There is only one solution for Greece and its called austerity. Massive cuts in order to bring back its economy.

They voted no...

Now Germany is pissed off because these assholes wont take responsibility for their own stupid decisions.

Instead they seem to be counting on a bailout from other countries or something... Assholes

What do you think of that attitude?

I




Give me one example where austerity has ever worked. Even the bankers have admitted it's not a solution.

Easier for the banks to blame the populace for their fuckups though




Bankers will never back austerity, dod you know why? Because they are the one's lending money with interest. When the government isn't spending more than it has, banks don't make money. The bread and butter of every bank on earth is debt.

Example 1: Canada.

After the bailout of 2009 (which was forced on us because the US did it first), the Conservative spent next to nothing every single year. No fancy multibillion dollar projects. Instead the paid the deficit year after year and lowered taxes everywhere. Guess what happened? Canada is in better shape than every other country and is attracting businesses from all over due to the lowest business tax rate (ever I believe). Sure it's not Greek austerity since we were better from the start but still, no spending, eliminate the deficit, lower taxes, attract businesses, people have more cash in their pockets.





Canada economy improved because of the oil boom, and now it is suffering becasue of the bust.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #21905109 - 07/06/15 12:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe they can pay them back in gyros and dolmas. And if they'd quit smashing all their plates, they would probably be a lot better off economically.


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"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21905112 - 07/06/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Whether you like it or not, government spending has proven to be the best way to recover from economic downturns.





Wrong all it does is postpone the downturn until later, also making it worse.

this is so obvious even a liberal should get it.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21905120 - 07/06/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I totally agree that economic  growth requires investment

The problem is that it takes yearrs for investments to pay for themselves and turn a profit. Greece needs money NOW, not in 10 years when the investment starts paying off. Therefore if they would "invest" themselves to death before they saw profit if there is a profit left to have in the end...

The problem with Greece is time. They have none. Had they foresaw the problem 15 years ago (which I'm sure economists did) and invested for the future then, maybe it would have paid off. They clearly didn't. Instead, the Greeks get a 13th and 14th month pay. They literally had bonues for showing to work and some public servant could retire with a pension in their 40s... At some point, you have to live in reality too.

Also, nobody is better off with Russia


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21905121 - 07/06/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
I don't understand the intricacies of the better plans, but observational evidence supports the idea that austerity clearly doesn't work.






No amount of austerity can get greece, or anyone out of the debt holes they are in, but borrowing infinite amounts of money won't work either.  Greece's creditors has now cut greece off, so that is no longer an option.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21905126 - 07/06/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

koods said:
Whether you like it or not, government spending has proven to be the best way to recover from economic downturns.





Wrong all it does is postpone the downturn until later, also making it worse.

this is so obvious even a liberal should get it.




History proves you wrong


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21905129 - 07/06/15 12:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
There is only one solution for Greece and its called austerity. Massive cuts in order to bring back its economy.

They voted no...

Now Germany is pissed off because these assholes wont take responsibility for their own stupid decisions.

Instead they seem to be counting on a bailout from other countries or something... Assholes

What do you think of that attitude?

I




Give me one example where austerity has ever worked. Even the bankers have admitted it's not a solution.

Easier for the banks to blame the populace for their fuckups though




Bankers will never back austerity, dod you know why? Because they are the one's lending money with interest. When the government isn't spending more than it has, banks don't make money. The bread and butter of every bank on earth is debt.

Example 1: Canada.

After the bailout of 2009 (which was forced on us because the US did it first), the Conservative spent next to nothing every single year. No fancy multibillion dollar projects. Instead the paid the deficit year after year and lowered taxes everywhere. Guess what happened? Canada is in better shape than every other country and is attracting businesses from all over due to the lowest business tax rate (ever I believe). Sure it's not Greek austerity since we were better from the start but still, no spending, eliminate the deficit, lower taxes, attract businesses, people have more cash in their pockets.





Canada economy improved because of the oil boom, and now it is suffering becasue of the bust.




Oil is barely 5% of the Canadian economy


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21905132 - 07/06/15 12:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:

koods said:
Whether you like it or not, government spending has proven to be the best way to recover from economic downturns.




It's kind of like giving oxygen to a person who can't breathe well. When they recover they can breath on their own again. When you withhold oxygen, the person either dies or develops chronic problems that end up causing more problems  for everybody else in the long run.




Your analogy fails because the economy nevr did, and never will breathe on its own again.  It is on constant life support and is requiring more and more even just to stay alive then.


a better analogy is that giving heroin to a heroin addict makes them better for the time being, but unless you constantly keep injecting heroin the economy will experience withdrawal.  If you don't stop, tolerance will keep building until an OD.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21905141 - 07/06/15 12:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Whether you like it or not, government spending has proven to be the best way to recover from economic downturns.



Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

koods said:
Whether you like it or not, government spending has proven to be the best way to recover from economic downturns.





Wrong all it does is postpone the downturn until later, also making it worse.

this is so obvious even a liberal should get it.




History proves you wrong




No it doesn't.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21905145 - 07/06/15 12:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yes it does.

Government spending got us out of the Great Depression and led to the greatest expansion of wealth in the history of the world, and Keynesian economic theory has been practiced successfully ever since.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods] * 2
    #21905153 - 07/06/15 12:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The Canadian economy was notable in the last downturn in that its banking system was relatively unscathed, due mainly to tighter regulations.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21905165 - 07/06/15 12:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

koods, you're a liberal, so even if you studied this particular subject, you can't be trusted to not simply be parroting other liberal opinions, which makes you weak and stoopid.

right? that's how this works, i think.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21905177 - 07/06/15 12:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:

koods said:
Whether you like it or not, government spending has proven to be the best way to recover from economic downturns.




It's kind of like giving oxygen to a person who can't breathe well. When they recover they can breath on their own again. When you withhold oxygen, the person either dies or develops chronic problems that end up causing more problems  for everybody else in the long run.




Your analogy fails because the economy nevr did, and never will breathe on its own again.  It is on constant life support and is requiring more and more even just to stay alive then.


a better analogy is that giving heroin to a heroin addict makes them better for the time being, but unless you constantly keep injecting heroin the economy will experience withdrawal.  If you don't stop, tolerance will keep building until an OD.




Cool counter-analogy, but withdrawal causes more drastic problems than addiction does. Addiction has sneakier and more subtle dangers, but sudden withdrawal is deadly right away. Look at the rioting in Greece. You're better off buying time figuring out what to do about the subtle problems than you are by withholding needed help and causing heavy damage to the economy right away.


Quote:

akira_akuma said:
koods, you're a liberal, so even if you studied this particular subject, you can't be trusted to not simply be parroting other liberal opinions, which makes you weak and stoopid.

right? that's how this works, i think.




:lol: You're jumping the gun.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 1
    #21905251 - 07/06/15 01:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Greece is basically; when your heroin dealer stops fronting you and you're broke/a raging junkie.

the liberal socialists think that if you could just find more heroin everything will be ok, and that doing more and more heroin is a real solution.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21905254 - 07/06/15 01:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Yes it does.

Government spending got us out of the Great Depression and led to the greatest expansion of wealth in the history of the world, and Keynesian economic theory has been practiced successfully ever since.





You call it success?  You have extremely low standards then.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins] * 1
    #21905259 - 07/06/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah addiction to food and other necessities of life is just like being a heroin junkie


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: nicechrisman] * 1
    #21905275 - 07/06/15 01:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
Yeah addiction to food and other necessities of life is just like being a heroin junkie





I 'm talking about monetary heroin; loans.  The greeks have a problem with addiction;  they are addicted to spending other peoples money.

Now those other people are saying; "fuck you greece, youre not going to be able to pay us off, were not giving you ano more crack unless you get your spending under control.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21905279 - 07/06/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Greece is basically; when your heroin dealer stops fronting you and you're broke/a raging junkie.

the liberal socialists think that if you could just find more heroin everything will be ok, and that doing more and more heroin is a real solution.




Nobody said it was the real solution. They just said it was better. Raging junkies are bad for everybody's business. Satiated addicts are much more useful because they can still function.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: nicechrisman]
    #21905287 - 07/06/15 01:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

there for heroin


this systems crazy how it could do that and the only correcting is in the future with the mess or the getaway crime in the past. Still dont understand it.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21905289 - 07/06/15 01:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

And still vote democrat...


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Patlal]
    #21905296 - 07/06/15 01:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
I don't know why people are bashing austerity so much. It's actually the RIGHT thing to do BY FAR.

If anyone bothered to look at the numbers you would realize that the EU and the US had practically the same growth rebound. The ony difference is that the US endebte itself madly to get the same results.

In 2012, the EU suffered because of Spain, Greece and France but it only knocked off 1% growth compared to the US.

Whoever says that spending money you don't have  is the best way to get out of debt is mad.




When has right and wrong ever entered the arena of economics?

Ignoring the fact that austerity doesn't work, it's not even right.

Banks make shitty decisions.
economy blows up.
Give money to banks.
no money left.
???
Stupid welfare queens!


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21905301 - 07/06/15 01:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
And still vote democrat...




I think most of the junkies are dumb enough to vote republican even though it's against their best interests.


Edited by Mr.GuessWork (07/06/15 01:39 PM)


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21905304 - 07/06/15 01:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Banks were forced to give loans.  The ECB basically created "equality" in lending standards among the EU where greece was basically getting the same rates as germany...  another genius socialist idea.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21905317 - 07/06/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:

Shins said:
And still vote democrat...




I think most of the junkies are dumb enough to vote republican even though it's against their best interests.





Why would a junkie ever vote for anyone other than the one who gives them free heroin?   

The trick is to never start doing heroin in the first place, that's the conservative position.

Liberals say "look guys giving heroin to a withdrawing junkie makes them better!  See? Liberal economics works!


while in reality they are the heroin dealers who got the junkie hoked in the first place and are whi beneifit from the junkie needing more heroin constantly


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21905324 - 07/06/15 01:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Wow you should go to Fox news and see if you can sell them on this whole "liberal junkie" theme you've got going. I'll bet they'd eat it right up.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: nicechrisman] * 1
    #21905339 - 07/06/15 01:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

hooked on liberalism. LOL fucking seriously, really? damn the US and the rest of whole damn world is addicted to liberalism and not MY -ism, oh what ever shall i do!

we just can't get people off that liberalism and it's evil addictive Heroin like goodness!


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21905349 - 07/06/15 01:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Quote:

Shins said:
And still vote democrat...




I think most of the junkies are dumb enough to vote republican even though it's against their best interests.





Why would a junkie ever vote for anyone other than the one who gives them free heroin?   

The trick is to never start doing heroin in the first place, that's the conservative position.

Liberals say "look guys giving heroin to a withdrawing junkie makes them better!  See? Liberal economics works!


while in reality they are the heroin dealers who got the junkie hoked in the first place and are whi beneifit from the junkie needing more heroin constantly




Junkies are dumb. They do crazy shit like voting republican. I don't know what they're thinking.

We've kinda ridden the metaphor too far at this point though. Here's the problems with the argument anyway. You can't go back in time and not do heroine. The heroine addicts are there, and they need to be dealt with in a way that causes as little damage as possible. Giving them heroine alleviates withdrawal and prevents death in some cases. As long as they're not dying and taking the world with them in the process, then we have time to come up with a better solution. It's obvious that all the "solutions" suck. Some just suck less.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: nicechrisman]
    #21905350 - 07/06/15 01:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I hate fox news.

Economic liberalism; keynsian socialism  is a pyramis scheme.  It creates dependence on central bank debt similar to how heroin creates dependence on heroin from dealers, only the heroin/junkie analogy is much less worse than the economic situation,  its just a convienient analogy to help the average brain dead zombie american start to get the slightest clue.

Greece is your future.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Patlal]
    #21905353 - 07/06/15 01:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'm glad so many Democrats believe debt equals growth. It does. It equals growth in the incomes of the Republicans that own the factories all the Democrats work in.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21905370 - 07/06/15 01:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
...
Greece is your future.




Probably, but at least it's not the present.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21905372 - 07/06/15 01:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Liberals don't even want to try to get off the monetary heroin, they think they can keep borrowing and shooting exponentially more and more heroin forever.  Theyre not even saying the equivalent of "lets try methadone" they do not even admit they have a problem.

hard core libs are just like addicts who refuse to admit they even have a problem.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21905493 - 07/06/15 02:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Banks were forced to give loans.  The ECB basically created "equality" in lending standards among the EU where greece was basically getting the same rates as germany...  another genius socialist idea.





Banks were not forced to make loans. You are clueless.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Srirachi] * 3
    #21905502 - 07/06/15 02:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Srirachi said:
I'm glad so many Democrats believe debt equals growth. It does. It equals growth in the incomes of the Republicans that own the factories all the Democrats work in.




What does a rainbow look like to someone who can only see in black and white?


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Srirachi] * 1
    #21905513 - 07/06/15 02:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Srirachi said:
I'm glad so many Democrats believe debt equals growth. It does. It equals growth in the incomes of the Republicans that own the factories all the Democrats work in.




Jesus, get over yourself. The conservative track record when it comes to economics is so pathetic, it amazes me that you guys still act like you have any clue what you are talking about.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21905563 - 07/06/15 02:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Liberals don't even want to try to get off the monetary heroin, they think they can keep borrowing and shooting exponentially more and more heroin forever.  Theyre not even saying the equivalent of "lets try methadone" they do not even admit they have a problem.

hard core libs are just like addicts who refuse to admit they even have a problem.




Sure. Just look at the track record or democratic vs. republican state governments. Traditionally red states are being propped up by the wealth of traditionally blue states. The south is essentially a third world country that is lucky enough to have lost the civil war and gets to be part of a economic powerhouse driven by liberal economic policy.

Look at Kanas, which had a huge budget surplus under democratic leadership which was turned into a deficit by a republican governor. Look at California which had a devastating deficit turned into a surplus by a democrat in office.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21905954 - 07/06/15 04:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Yes it does.

Government spending got us out of the Great Depression and led to the greatest expansion of wealth in the history of the world, and Keynesian economic theory has been practiced successfully ever since.



This is insane.  Government spending prolonged the depression.  The Obama/ Dem Congress Porkulus bill did nothing to stimulate the economy which it still sucks.  The Porkuklus was a sop to unions and other welfare recipients and built almost nothing.  The econoomy should have recovered by now but it is utterly stagnant with the lowest labor force participation rate since women started entering the workforce in large numbers in the seventies.  GDP is not keeping up with population growth and wages are stagnant even in the face of the fact that the rest of the world is in the toilet.  Ignorant bullshit lies are not the way to go.  Fuck Keynes.  Go with Milton Friedman. 

The Greeks are panhandling bums.  The scheme by which you lend somebody money so they can pay back the other creditors has a name.  Ponzi.

The whole Euro idea was idiotic.  Why would all these states give up their sovereignty?  Crazy.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21905971 - 07/06/15 04:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Liberals don't even want to try to get off the monetary heroin, they think they can keep borrowing and shooting exponentially more and more heroin forever.  Theyre not even saying the equivalent of "lets try methadone" they do not even admit they have a problem.

hard core libs are just like addicts who refuse to admit they even have a problem.




Sure. Just look at the track record or democratic vs. republican state governments. Traditionally red states are being propped up by the wealth of traditionally blue states. The south is essentially a third world country that is lucky enough to have lost the civil war and gets to be part of a economic powerhouse driven by liberal economic policy.

Look at Kanas, which had a huge budget surplus under democratic leadership which was turned into a deficit by a republican governor. Look at California which had a devastating deficit turned into a surplus by a democrat in office.



New York City is almost entirely supported by the financial industry.  If they leave, and they can with the technology, it will totally collapse.  California is still bankrupt.  How many California cities have declared bankruptcy?  The state may be doing OK but that is because they transferred all the obligations to individual cities.  Their economy aint so great either.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21905974 - 07/06/15 04:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Srirachi said:
I'm glad so many Democrats believe debt equals growth. It does. It equals growth in the incomes of the Republicans that own the factories all the Democrats work in.




Jesus, get over yourself. The conservative track record when it comes to economics is so pathetic, it amazes me that you guys still act like you have any clue what you are talking about.



No it isn't.  The liberals have done tremendous damage.  You caused the housing crash


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21906049 - 07/06/15 04:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

i'd love to see your reaction to Capital in the Twenty-First Century :lol:

Quote:

The whole Euro idea was idiotic.  Why would all these states give up their sovereignty?  Crazy.




lol, they thought together they could size up the US.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21906054 - 07/06/15 04:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The problem is that so many of them were welfare state bums who thought they would be taken care of by daddy


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #21906062 - 07/06/15 04:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

People who give up their sovereignty do so because they fear being solely accountable for their own actions. By forming a group, they surround themselves with people to blame. A free man stands alone, with no one to blame but himself.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Srirachi]
    #21906114 - 07/06/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The problem is that so many of them were welfare state bums who thought they would be taken care of by daddy



they missed the memo on individual freedom,...daddy.

Quote:

Srirachi said:
People who give up their sovereignty do so because they fear being solely accountable for their own actions. By forming a group, they surround themselves with people to blame. A free man stands alone, with no one to blame but himself.



oh quit preaching please. yeah, you're Rambo and Europe are all just drunken cheese-eating snobs who all wanna pass their metaphorical buck onto someone else cause dey liberal with all their fancy luxuries while under massive debt (cough like the US cough), they just don't stand alone so they have everyone else to blame but themselves, only because words just work like that. brilliant. i'm convinced.

if you have anyone else that you need to trust, you're not gonna make it. you need to be hard as fuckin' stone with your trust and trust only that everyone is gonna be blamed, completely out of your control, by you, because they're there, and then you don't even trust that, because that ain't kosher. no you need to only trust that trust is an illusion. don't worry now. we've all got your back on that one.


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InvisibleSrirachi
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21906172 - 07/06/15 05:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You put my fries in there too, right?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Srirachi]
    #21906181 - 07/06/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

don't make me pull you over to put your head in it, as well. this is straight up real MAC-Donald's sheit going down.


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OfflineThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21906208 - 07/06/15 05:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:




You got a source for this strange ass claim that junkies vote republican?


--------------------
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[quote]Sheekle said:
[quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote]
u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21906350 - 07/06/15 06:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Banks were forced to give loans.  The ECB basically created "equality" in lending standards among the EU where greece was basically getting the same rates as germany...  another genius socialist idea.





Banks were not forced to make loans. You are clueless.





They were forced to make loans at the same rates as the rest of the European Union  Greece was getting the same rates as Germany when Germany has a very strong economy compared to greece.  Greece basically wants to leech off of Germany without doing much of anything to move towards getting their economy to a place where they can pay the EU back. 

They can't ever pay it back anyways,  like I've been saying for years; its a ponzi economy,  a pyramid scheme.  Its a game of musical chairs and greece missed a chair this round.  Who's next?

Puerto Rico is having similar problems as greece. They're talking about "bail ins" Cypress has already done it and it will most likely happrn in greece too.  The government/banks lock out and close allsnthe banks and just take a % of your bank accounts.  Greeks are already locked out of banks and allowed only to withdraw $50-80 a day.  BREAD LINES IN GREECE!  The socialists still don't get it as they are lining up all day to withdraw $50 a day to get enough to pay rent.

all the while the socilists are still oblivious/apathetic saying "we just don't have enough socialism yet" - a greek in a bread/bank line.  We haven't shot enough monetary heroin yet, if we coukd just keep these bubble highs going a bit longer I could retire off my real estate/stock investments.  Fuck the kids, ill be dead anyway, vote me some free shit too, send the bill to the damned kids after I'm dead.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21906393 - 07/06/15 06:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Meanwhile NATO Is inching towards war with Russia,  using military coups and terrorism in Ukraine because Ukraine took one look at the obviously broken European Union and said "fuck no!"

what did NATO counties do? Support Nazi military coups and terrorism in Ukraine to take over their government and make them say "YES"

Fucking brilliant,  and all the stupid zombies go "uuurggg puuutin mytrrr myrr" completely oblivious.  There is a real lack of accurate information,  information is targeted with scientific, military precision and manipulated to support missions, its conpletely insane and everyone is under the influence.  I'm surrounded by mind fucked people.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins] * 1
    #21906398 - 07/06/15 06:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Well that was wonderfully deranged and delusional.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #21906459 - 07/06/15 06:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The problem is that so many of them were welfare state bums who thought they would be taken care of by daddy




Is Antarctica is the only continent not wholly consisting of welfare bums?


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
    #21906461 - 07/06/15 06:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:




You got a source for this strange ass claim that junkies vote republican?




Nah. Best I could find was a source from 1980 saying that they found no significant correlation between drug use and democrat/republican self-identification. So it was 50/50 just before the reagon era.


Edited by Mr.GuessWork (07/06/15 06:35 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21906469 - 07/06/15 06:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The problem is that so many of them were welfare state bums who thought they would be taken care of by daddy




Is Antarctica is the only continent not wholly consisting of welfare bums?




Are you drinking again?


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21906536 - 07/06/15 06:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The problem is that so many of them were welfare state bums who thought they would be taken care of by daddy




Is Antarctica is the only continent not wholly consisting of welfare bums?




Are you drinking again?




Actually he's 100% right.

No penguins are on welfare in Antarctica


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Patlal]
    #21906604 - 07/06/15 06:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The problem is that so many of them were welfare state bums who thought they would be taken care of by daddy




Is Antarctica is the only continent not wholly consisting of welfare bums?




Are you drinking again?




Actually he's 100% right.

No penguins are on welfare in Antarctica




Well now hold up here.

There's got to be federal dollars going to penguin research and some of that could be food for the penguins. But even if there isn't, the preservation of their habitat is signficantly influenced by our federal dollars being spent doing research in Antarctica. We're practically subsidizing their housing.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #21906610 - 07/06/15 07:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Well that was wonderfully deranged and delusional.



lol, part/combination CNN, Al Jazeera, and Russian Propaganda.  :starbucks:


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21906682 - 07/06/15 07:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Well that was wonderfully deranged and delusional.



lol, part/combination CNN, Al Jazeera, and Russian Propaganda.  :starbucks:





Lol none of which I watch.

But you aren't really qualified to judge anyways.  Admit it, you have no idea about any of that.


Al jazeera is BBC arabic too by the way,  a british network.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21906748 - 07/06/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

i was just kidding, Shins.

i still think you have misappropriated information. Russia decided to annex Crimea, and that's all they aimed to do. Crimea is a part of Ukraine, regardless of it's history. they can leave, the Russian identifier's, to Russia if they choose. but instead they throw a fit, so they organize a coup to take over Crimea for Russia, and mock up "rebel's" to throw a counter-offensive to "anti-Crimean forces", so the country can fight against it's own people. then all the militia come out of the woodwork and it's a complete disaster. who shot down that plane, it was Russia.

wasn't it?

the going to the Euro seems to me to be a final straw that broke the camel's back, maybe not per se, but figuratively speaking.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #21906842 - 07/06/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The problem is that so many of them were welfare state bums who thought they would be taken care of by daddy




Is Antarctica is the only continent not wholly consisting of welfare bums?




Are you drinking again?




Actually he's 100% right.

No penguins are on welfare in Antarctica




Everyone living In Antarctica is a government employee


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21907030 - 07/06/15 08:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
i was just kidding, Shins.

i still think you have misappropriated information. Russia decided to annex Crimea, and that's all they aimed to do. Crimea is a part of Ukraine, regardless of it's history. they can leave, the Russian identifier's, to Russia if they choose. but instead they throw a fit, so they organize a coup to take over Crimea for Russia, and mock up "rebel's" to throw a counter-offensive to "anti-Crimean forces", so the country can fight against it's own people. then all the militia come out of the woodwork and it's a complete disaster. who shot down that plane, it was Russia.

wasn't it?

the going to the Euro seems to me to be a final straw that broke the camel's back, maybe not per se, but figuratively speaking.





Russia did not Annex Ukraine, The NATO EU Kiev junta annexed everything but Crimea.  CrimeA had a referrendum and voted overwhelmingly to succeed to Russia.  The Kiev junta did a mitary coup, they are the annexers.  Ukraine's old legitimate democratic government rejected joining the EU and took Ruisia's deal instead.  In response NATO/EU Supported the overthrow of Ukraine's democratic government,  and even sank to employing flagrant right wing literal nazis because they would support a deal with the EU.

Crimea succeeded to Russia largely because it looked at the coup and saw the writing on the wall.  All of the ethnic russians there feared the kiev nationalist nazi terror squads and seeked out Russias protection.

I'm not "pro Russian"  this is simply what actually happened.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21907082 - 07/06/15 08:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

there are people who want to join the EU. your "writing on the wall" analogy is convenient, but it overlooks the people who don't want to split Crimea apart and wish not to secede from Ukraine. let me ask you, are you saying that you think ALL of them are potentially affiliated, whether beknownst to them or not, with the Nationalist junta?


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21907149 - 07/06/15 08:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You don't get to go to the EU for support to overthrow the government in order to join the EU.  Why the hell would anyone want to join the blatantly broken EU anyway? Russia had a better deal and the legitimate government of Ukraine took Russia's deal instead.

So the EU supported the overthrew of Ukraine.  The spark was some very suspicious snipers who opened fire at a protest.  They were most likely EU provocateurs,  there is evidence elements in Ukraine were colluding with the EU for years trying to force Ukraine's enter into the EU.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21907169 - 07/06/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:lolsy:Russia is trashed.  Drunken louts and thugs


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21907176 - 07/06/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

did Ukrainian's take Russia's deal? i mean people, not the government. wasn't there a majority that wanted to join the EU?


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21907184 - 07/06/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
:lolsy:Russia is trashed.  Drunken louts and thugs





That's an irrational stereotype


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21907200 - 07/06/15 09:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The Russian puppet was a kleptocrat that the Ukrainian parliament and people tossed out.  The criminal fled rather than stand trial.  When Putin lost his puppet he invaded the Crimea to usurp yet more oil.

I think it is becoming pretty clear that if you aren't a welfare state you shouldn't join the European Union.  It was an idiot idea.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21907214 - 07/06/15 09:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
:lolsy:Russia is trashed.  Drunken louts and thugs





That's an irrational stereotype



There is nothing irrational or stereotypical about it.  It is fact.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/tmt/332164.html

A nation of drunks.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21907216 - 07/06/15 09:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

My old calculus teacher used to say that Russians had square wheels on their planes to keep them awake because they were always wasted as fuck lol.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21907225 - 07/06/15 09:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The Russian puppet was a kleptocrat that the Ukrainian parliament and people tossed out.  The criminal fled rather than stand trial.  When Putin lost his puppet he invaded the Crimea to usurp yet more oil.

I think it is becoming pretty clear that if you aren't a welfare state you shouldn't join the European Union.  It was an idiot idea.



well, things will become evident in the confusion itself eventually Steeps.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21907249 - 07/06/15 09:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
did Ukrainian's take Russia's deal? i mean people, not the government. wasn't there a majority that wanted to join the EU?





Ukraine had an elected government. That government rejected entering the EU and Instead accepted a better deal with Russia. 

There was never a vote to join the EU, any claims that it was a majority are complete misinformation.

The EU armed and suppoted a significantly nazi/ukranian nationalist military coup. The right-wing nationalists would then make up a significant part of the new government.

Crimea is a vast majority of ethnic russians,  it also happens to be an economic power center with lots of oil and a significant Russian naval base.

Now for those who don't understand;  Nationalists hate other ethnicities.  The coup government were fanatic Ukrainian Nationalists,  what does that spell for the ethnic Russians? A bad deal.


So Crimea rejected the EU Supported nationalist junta and instead voted to honor its partnership with Russia,  Ukraine's legitimate democratic government also made a partnership with Russia,  so by best measures, Crimea is way more in line with the Democratic majority of Ukraine.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21907296 - 07/06/15 09:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

so why aren't there mass deportation's to Russia?

PS: this is starting to sound like a Codec transmission.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21907317 - 07/06/15 09:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
so why aren't their mass deportation's to Russia?




??

There has been over a million Ukrainians who have fled to Russia as political refugees.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #21907324 - 07/06/15 09:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)



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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21907329 - 07/06/15 09:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

who's staying to support the junta?

that's what i'm asking you...are the people staying behind all Nationalists?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #21907340 - 07/06/15 09:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Italy of course would being second place. look at all the Wildebeest's.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #21907346 - 07/06/15 09:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:




Source?  As far as I know we haven't defaulted


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Mad_Larkin] * 2
    #21907364 - 07/06/15 09:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The Fed prints dollars.

The ECB prints Euros.

ECB is doing the equivalent of cutting off a US state if it were the fed.


The real question is; why are all these countries in debt and beholden to banks?  Countries can print their own money, why do we borrow from the ECB or Fed?

ill tell you why; the banks have bought the politicians and passed legislation to borrow from banks instead.

its massive scam so incredibly shocking it boggles the mind.


why the hell would Greeks ever want this?  Nationalists especially?!  We are truly living in an idiocricy


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21907372 - 07/06/15 09:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:flowstone:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21907381 - 07/06/15 09:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

and you think all this activity in Crimea is funnelled by the UN?


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21907406 - 07/06/15 09:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Not the UN, NATO.

It certainly appears that  NATO is going against its promise not to expand and encircle Russia.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21907453 - 07/06/15 09:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

oh sorry NATO. well, UN obviously wants a Ukraine entreaty by sorta dangling the carrot in front of their faces obviously, but you're saying that in false flag operation's by NATO (which let's face it, isn't official under the UN, but it's UN military. [i believe this is due to the Berlin Plus agreement]) they've been conspiring to funnel the Russian's into war with Ukrainian Nationalist's?


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21907695 - 07/06/15 10:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

In effect


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21907703 - 07/06/15 10:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

in effect.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21907713 - 07/06/15 10:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:




Source?  As far as I know we haven't defaulted



Even if this is true, a much higher GDP per capita can support a higher debt per capita.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21907714 - 07/06/15 10:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:




Source?  As far as I know we haven't defaulted




sources are at the bottom ur blind


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21907725 - 07/06/15 10:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I think the EU and IMF/ECB is btthrt because Crimea is a good part of Ukraine's economy, which is not great to begin with.  The EU lost a tasty host, Crimea could be funding Greece's bailout right now if it was part of the EU.  what a bad deal for Ukraine.  EU is btthrt it lost a potential host to leech.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21907743 - 07/06/15 11:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

well, course if you don't compete, you default the other player from losing. Russia ain't doing so hot either, by the way.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21907834 - 07/06/15 11:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

world war 3.....:crazy2:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #21907882 - 07/06/15 11:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

hey, private military contracts with private militia in the Middle East who's with...*assassin's come and snipe my ass*


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21908339 - 07/07/15 05:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Greece should dump the Euro and go back to its own currency, let tourism bring the country back to life.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #21908381 - 07/07/15 05:47 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vsnares.Zappa said:
world war 3.....:crazy2:




Costs me a grand.

muh

Greece destroyed germanys debt at one time in history

now return the favour ;o

*hides*  :shitstorm:


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #21908413 - 07/07/15 06:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I happen to be in greece right now, and from what I've seen of the greek people in general, they just aren't fit to run their own cities at all, much less country. Also it seems like no one works here evere, its like the shroomery minus drugs and common sense


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: qman]
    #21908599 - 07/07/15 07:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Greece should dump the Euro and go back to its own currency, let tourism bring the country back to life.






They should, but they are bound to fuck that up even worse if they insist on refusing to reform all the spending and socialism.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21908607 - 07/07/15 07:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

qman said:
Greece should dump the Euro and go back to its own currency, let tourism bring the country back to life.






They should, but they are bound to fuck that up even worse if they insist on refusing to reform all the spending and socialism.




At least it's their own destiny, let the currency determine the results of their fiscal responsibility.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: qman]
    #21908612 - 07/07/15 07:56 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The dracma will hyperinflate if they re-adopt it without making changes.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21908634 - 07/07/15 08:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Greece can't just rely on tourism. But this is what the banks get. They wanted to forego sovereignty in order to open markets and share profits, and now you have to share losses.
Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

qman said:
Greece should dump the Euro and go back to its own currency, let tourism bring the country back to life.






They should, but they are bound to fuck that up even worse if they insist on refusing to reform all the spending and socialism.




what do you think austerity is?


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Patlal]
    #21908656 - 07/07/15 08:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
I don't know why people are bashing austerity so much. It's actually the RIGHT thing to do BY FAR.

If anyone bothered to look at the numbers you would realize that the EU and the US had practically the same growth rebound. The ony difference is that the US endebte itself madly to get the same results.

In 2012, the EU suffered because of Spain, Greece and France but it only knocked off 1% growth compared to the US.

Whoever says that spending money you don't have  is the best way to get out of debt is mad.





dont forget that the growth that the US has seen is artificial, the government
spending hasnt done anything to boost the economy as koods claims and the
claims of lower unemployment is due to numbers juggling due to people being
dropped from the unemployment rosters now that their time has run out, it's not
from people going back to work, the job participation rate is even lower now
than in 2007-2010

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

http://nypost.com/2014/11/06/us-economic-growth-is-all-an-illusion/

koods talks a good game in his defense of obama but he really doesnt know
any better, but you know, when you're swinging from obama's dick you cant
just jump off because you've invested so much into getting the milk


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21908729 - 07/07/15 08:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Greece can't just rely on tourism. But this is what the banks get. They wanted to forego sovereignty in order to open markets and share profits, and now you have to share losses.
Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

qman said:
Greece should dump the Euro and go back to its own currency, let tourism bring the country back to life.






They should, but they are bound to fuck that up even worse if they insist on refusing to reform all the spending and socialism.




what do you think austerity is?





Greece rejected the EU Austerity deal.

if they try to go alone without changes, the austerity they feel will be even worse once their economy tanks again.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21908803 - 07/07/15 09:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
I don't know why people are bashing austerity so much. It's actually the RIGHT thing to do BY FAR.

If anyone bothered to look at the numbers you would realize that the EU and the US had practically the same growth rebound. The ony difference is that the US endebte itself madly to get the same results.

In 2012, the EU suffered because of Spain, Greece and France but it only knocked off 1% growth compared to the US.

Whoever says that spending money you don't have  is the best way to get out of debt is mad.





dont forget that the growth that the US has seen is artificial, the government
spending hasnt done anything to boost the economy as koods claims and the
claims of lower unemployment is due to numbers juggling due to people being
dropped from the unemployment rosters now that their time has run out, it's not
from people going back to work, the job participation rate is even lower now
than in 2007-2010

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

http://nypost.com/2014/11/06/us-economic-growth-is-all-an-illusion/

koods talks a good game in his defense of obama but he really doesnt know
any better, but you know, when you're swinging from obama's dick you cant
just jump off because you've invested so much into getting the milk




Job participation. Lol. It's hilarious that you have to go to that thinking you've got a winning argument. that number is a the ratio of people employed divided by the entire population over age 16. The reason that number has been falling (which it has been predicted to do for a decade) is because the baby boomers are retiring.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21908810 - 07/07/15 09:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

um... maybe you should check again, it covers working age people, not all people,
are you telling us that millions of baby boomers are able to retire at 55 now?


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21908814 - 07/07/15 09:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

it is the number of employed divided by the population over 16. It says it on the damn chart.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21908822 - 07/07/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/article/labor-force-projections-to-2022-the-labor-force-participation-rate-continues-to-fall.htm
Quote:

Of note is the fact that the drop in the labor force participation rate was just 0.6 percentage point during the 2007–2009 economic downturn whereas, between 2009 and 2012, since the end of the recession, the rate declined by another 1.7 percentage points. A major factor responsible for this downward pressure on the overall labor force participation rate is the aging of the baby-boom generation. (See figure 1.)




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NotSheekle said
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21908832 - 07/07/15 09:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/article/labor-force-projections-to-2022-the-labor-force-participation-rate-continues-to-fall.htm
Quote:

Of note is the fact that the drop in the labor force participation rate was just 0.6 percentage point during the 2007–2009 economic downturn whereas, between 2009 and 2012, since the end of the recession, the rate declined by another 1.7 percentage points. A major factor responsible for this downward pressure on the overall labor force participation rate is the aging of the baby-boom generation. (See figure 1.)








that doesnt say they've retired now does it. if your a business owner are you
going to hire and train someone that's 4 years from retirement?


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21908845 - 07/07/15 09:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

koods said:
http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/article/labor-force-projections-to-2022-the-labor-force-participation-rate-continues-to-fall.htm
Quote:

Of note is the fact that the drop in the labor force participation rate was just 0.6 percentage point during the 2007–2009 economic downturn whereas, between 2009 and 2012, since the end of the recession, the rate declined by another 1.7 percentage points. A major factor responsible for this downward pressure on the overall labor force participation rate is the aging of the baby-boom generation. (See figure 1.)








that doesnt say they've retired now does it. if your a business owner are you
going to hire and train someone that's 4 years from retirement?



Quote:

The movement of roughly 76.4 million baby boomers from participation rates above 80.0 percent to rates below 40.0 percent, typical of older age groups, will exert heavy pressure on the overall participation rate.10 BLS projects that, as a result of this demographic shift of baby boomers to older age groups, the labor force participation rate will continue to decline over the next 10 years.




yes. this means they are retiring. "baby boomers" are a population bubble and therefore as they move into retirement age, a greater proportion of the population than normal is retiring.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21908849 - 07/07/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/article/labor-force-projections-to-2022-the-labor-force-participation-rate-continues-to-fall.htm
Quote:

Of note is the fact that the drop in the labor force participation rate was just 0.6 percentage point during the 2007–2009 economic downturn whereas, between 2009 and 2012, since the end of the recession, the rate declined by another 1.7 percentage points. A major factor responsible for this downward pressure on the overall labor force participation rate is the aging of the baby-boom generation. (See figure 1.)








of course the 70 million out of work must all be retired baby boomers

Quote:

The participation rate of those in the 55-years-and-older age group rose to 34.5 percent in 2002 and increased by another 6.0 percentage points, to 40.5 percent in 2012. This group’s rate is projected to rise further, to 41.5 percent in 2022. Among the subgroups of older workers, 55-to-64-year-olds had a participation rate that stood at 61.9 percent in 2002 and increased to 64.5 percent in 2012.




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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21908858 - 07/07/15 09:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Lol baby boomers are actually coming OUT of retirement to take on part time jobs because they cannot affort to retire anymore.

Lol fail.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21908861 - 07/07/15 09:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

what you don't understand is that the population bubble of the baby boomers continues to age. the huge number of baby boomers will age into lower and lower participation.

the BLS spelled it out for you: "A major factor responsible for this downward pressure on the overall labor force participation rate is the aging of the baby-boom generation."


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21908866 - 07/07/15 09:35 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

increases in social spending for welfare and foodstamps must be an indicator of a
good healthy economy and everyone must be working cuz welfare

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/hhs-report-percentage-americans-welfare-hits-recorded-high


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21908872 - 07/07/15 09:37 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Lol baby boomers are actually coming OUT of retirement to take on part time jobs because they cannot affort to retire anymore.

Lol fail.




that's not what that data says. the age groups are fixed. people move through the age groups. So when a participation rate goes up in an age group it mean that younger people are retiring later than their older peers. This huge number of baby boomers are still retiring.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods] * 1
    #21908882 - 07/07/15 09:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
what you don't understand is that the population bubble of the baby boomers continues to age. the huge number of baby boomers will age into lower and lower participation.

the BLS spelled it out for you: "A major factor responsible for this downward pressure on the overall labor force participation rate is the aging of the baby-boom generation."





it spelled out that more and more are choosing to remain in the work force with
nearly half of those at retirement age choosing not to leave their jobs


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins] * 1
    #21908894 - 07/07/15 09:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Lol baby boomers are actually coming OUT of retirement to take on part time jobs because they cannot affort to retire anymore.

Lol fail.





dude... obama's dick, it's a great swing


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21908911 - 07/07/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

So, what is the problem? At the beginning of this conversation you were complaining that the participation rate was going down, and now you're complaining that its going up for people over 55. that doesn't change the fact that for demographic reasons more people are retiring than are available to replace them.

the BLS spelled it out for you: "A major factor responsible for this downward pressure on the overall labor force participation rate is the aging of the baby-boom generation."


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21908923 - 07/07/15 09:46 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

As the historical trends shown in table 3 indicate, the labor force participation rate of 16-to-24-year-olds has decreased sharply over the past couple of decades, especially since 2002. The participation rate of that age group was 63.3 percent in 2002 and decreased by 8.4 percentage points, to 54.9 percent in 2012. BLS projects that this rate will decline further, to 49.6 percent in 2022. The major factor producing this significant decrease has been an increase in school attendance at all levels, especially summer and secondary school and college. Among 16-to-24-year-olds, the participation rate for those 16 to 19 years was 47.4 percent in 2002, a rate that then decreased by 13.1 percentage points, to 34.3 percent in 2012. BLS projects that this rate also will decrease, to 27.3 percent in 2022.




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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21908925 - 07/07/15 09:46 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The fucked up economy is a much more "major force" than naby boomers.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21908944 - 07/07/15 09:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

lol retiring. what a wholly blemishing concept.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21908962 - 07/07/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
So, what is the problem? At the beginning of this conversation you were complaining that the participation rate was going down, and now you're complaining that its going up for people over 55.





the participation rate is going down but it's not because of all the retirees,
sure, that's a factor in it but with 40% of them choosing to remain after
retirement age so that dog dont hunt. we have an increase in the numbers on
government assistance with almost half the children in the US now being below the
poverty line, 20% of men and 24% of women now collecting foodstamps and welfare


this is what 8 years of 'spend your way out of debt' has brought us


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21908967 - 07/07/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

so that dog dont hunt




:lol: nah, dog WILL hunt!


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21908972 - 07/07/15 09:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

As evidenced by the greeks,  die-hard socialists like koods will continue to support out of control spending even as he is lining up all day every day in a veritable bread line to withdraw the state allotted $50 a day from the bank.

at that point koods will still be telling us how great socialism is.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21908978 - 07/07/15 09:59 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

money should certainly not be used for contrivances, and liberal advocate's do have the distinct instance's of doing that, to note.


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21909021 - 07/07/15 10:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

koods said:
So, what is the problem? At the beginning of this conversation you were complaining that the participation rate was going down, and now you're complaining that its going up for people over 55.





the participation rate is going down but it's not because of all the retirees,
sure, that's a factor in it but with 40% of them choosing to remain after
retirement age so that dog dont hunt. we have an increase in the numbers on
government assistance with almost half the children in the US now being below the
poverty line, 20% of men and 24% of women now collecting foodstamps and welfare


this is what 8 years of 'spend your way out of debt' has brought us




"A major factor responsible for this downward pressure on the overall labor force participation rate is the aging of the baby-boom generation."


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21909044 - 07/07/15 10:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

you keep repeating that and eventually you will believe it

because it's only 8% of 70 million baby boomers over a 10 year span. only 8%
and those figures still only cover working age americans, that's the 55-65 age
group for the baby boomers

Quote:

As the historical trends shown in table 3 indicate, the labor force participation rate of 16-to-24-year-olds has decreased sharply over the past couple of decades, especially since 2002. The participation rate of that age group was 63.3 percent in 2002 and decreased by 8.4 percentage points, to 54.9 percent in 2012. BLS projects that this rate will decline further, to 49.6 percent in 2022. The major factor producing this significant decrease has been an increase in school attendance at all levels, especially summer and secondary school and college. Among 16-to-24-year-olds, the participation rate for those 16 to 19 years was 47.4 percent in 2002, a rate that then decreased by 13.1 percentage points, to 34.3 percent in 2012. BLS projects that this rate also will decrease, to 27.3 percent in 2022.




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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21909049 - 07/07/15 10:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Boomers ship all our jobs overseas, then demand we work harder to pay for their bloated retirements.


--------------------


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21909064 - 07/07/15 10:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Boomers ship all our jobs overseas, then demand we work harder to pay for their bloated retirements.





dont forget the 'clinton surplus' which was clinton raiding social security of
the money the baby boomers put in, it's not a trust fund, it was a government
mandated retirement program


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21909073 - 07/07/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
you keep repeating that and eventually you will believe it

because it's only 8% of 70 million baby boomers over a 10 year span. only 8%
and those figures still only cover working age americans, that's the 55-65 age
group for the baby boomers

Quote:

As the historical trends shown in table 3 indicate, the labor force participation rate of 16-to-24-year-olds has decreased sharply over the past couple of decades, especially since 2002. The participation rate of that age group was 63.3 percent in 2002 and decreased by 8.4 percentage points, to 54.9 percent in 2012. BLS projects that this rate will decline further, to 49.6 percent in 2022. The major factor producing this significant decrease has been an increase in school attendance at all levels, especially summer and secondary school and college. Among 16-to-24-year-olds, the participation rate for those 16 to 19 years was 47.4 percent in 2002, a rate that then decreased by 13.1 percentage points, to 34.3 percent in 2012. BLS projects that this rate also will decrease, to 27.3 percent in 2022.







You keep ignoring he demographic reasons why the rate is dropping. Fewer people age 16-24 are working because more are going to school.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21909074 - 07/07/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Boomers ship all our jobs overseas, then demand we work harder to pay for their bloated retirements.





dont forget the 'clinton surplus' which was clinton raiding social security of
the money the baby boomers put in, it's not a trust fund, it was a government
mandated retirement program




LOL yep.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21909088 - 07/07/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

you keep repeating that and eventually you will believe it




I keep repeating it because the BLS - whose data you are misinterpreting - is explaining to you what is actually happening.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21909100 - 07/07/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Boomers ship all our jobs overseas, then demand we work harder to pay for their bloated retirements.




dont forget the 'clinton surplus' which was clinton raiding social security of
the money the baby boomers put in, it's not a trust fund, it was a government
mandated retirement program




And they just won't die, I want affordable houses :crankey:

That sounds like a scam. O.o


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21909104 - 07/07/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Boomers ship all our jobs overseas, then demand we work harder to pay for their bloated retirements.





dont forget the 'clinton surplus' which was clinton raiding social security of
the money the baby boomers put in, it's not a trust fund, it was a government
mandated retirement program




We've been robbing SS since the 60's


--------------------


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #21909152 - 07/07/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Young people aren't passing up jobs to go to school, they're going to school because its too hard to get a job.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Shins]
    #21909159 - 07/07/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Ok sure.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21909176 - 07/07/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Also why bother getting a job, slaving your life away and never buying a house.

Better said:

Fuck giving government money. I'll gladly work, i'm just not giving my money away other then for ludicrous taxes :kingcrankey:


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21909180 - 07/07/15 10:46 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Don't worry the wealth is gonna trickle down any decade now.


--------------------


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21909501 - 07/07/15 12:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Don't worry the wealth is gonna trickle down any decade now.




Lol


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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Beanhead]
    #21909504 - 07/07/15 12:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Beanhead said:


Fuck giving government money. I'll gladly work, i'm just not giving my money away other then for ludicrous taxes :kingcrankey:




We should just all stop paying our taxes. Fuck it.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: chopstick]
    #21909510 - 07/07/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

*mass arrest's, conviction's, arraignment's, bond's, lawyer's, and jail revenue.


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: chopstick]
    #21909516 - 07/07/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Quote:

Beanhead said:


Fuck giving government money. I'll gladly work, i'm just not giving my money away other then for ludicrous taxes :kingcrankey:




We should just all stop paying our taxes. Fuck it.




Nope, I pay my taxes. Fuck you asshole, pay your taxes.

I'm just not giving +50% of my paycheck away.

Working under the table is where it's at.


Edited by Beanhead (07/07/15 12:28 PM)


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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Beanhead]
    #21909530 - 07/07/15 12:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Beanhead said:
Quote:

chopstick said:
Quote:

Beanhead said:


Fuck giving government money. I'll gladly work, i'm just not giving my money away other then for ludicrous taxes :kingcrankey:




We should just all stop paying our taxes. Fuck it.




Nope, I pay my taxes. Fuck you asshole, pay your taxes.

I'm just not giving +50% of my paycheck away.

Working under the table is where it's at.




The majority of your taxes go towards useless bullshit. Taxes shouldn't be more than 5-10%. I'm paying 25% on my self employment taxes. It's insane. People in the weed industry can't even claim expenses on their taxes due to some outdated tax law, resulting in an effective tax rate of 50%+


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: chopstick] * 1
    #21909557 - 07/07/15 12:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

As long as half the workers pay no net federal income tax, it won't get any better.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Beanhead]
    #21909576 - 07/07/15 12:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Big banks, the EU and corporations are playing a money grabbing game regarding Greece.

Money grabbers from within Greece but especially outside it.

The common Greek citizen has nothing to do with this. (s)he hasnt partook in the wealth, they have just been making ends meet, under the sun, in a second tier economy.

These Greeks are now made to pay for the moneygrabbers' greed. As we speak they are hoarding food ready for dire dire times to come. Empty store shelves, most people transformed their gardens to produce veggies and even put pots on the roofs in an attempt to become self sustaining.

They have been sold out by the banks, by their government AND the EU. Others stuffed their pockets - they, the poor, are to pay the price.

And just about anybody, well mostly conservative Americans, in this thread takes a dump on them too.

You can deny this all you wish, cast doubt, shoot the messenger, whatever. I had my say, people think of this what you want, but remember: The rich got even richer and the poor even poorer. Thats the real story, and either you are an apologist of this or you support the common Greeks.




--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: chopstick]
    #21909642 - 07/07/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Muh I like infrastructure and stuff.

Over here the saying is:

If you are self-employed, you pay your workers rate double!

Ouch.

"People in the weed industry can't even claim expenses on their taxes due to some outdated tax law, resulting in an effective tax rate of 50% "

:crankey:


Edited by Beanhead (07/07/15 06:13 PM)


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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Asante]
    #21909646 - 07/07/15 12:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Big banks, the EU and corporations are playing a money grabbing game regarding Greece.

Money grabbers from within Greece but especially outside it.

The common Greek citizen has nothing to do with this. (s)he hasnt partook in the wealth, they have just been making ends meet, under the sun, in a second tier economy.

These Greeks are now made to pay for the moneygrabbers' greed. As we speak they are hoarding food ready for dire dire times to come. Empty store shelves, most people transformed their gardens to produce veggies and even put pots on the roofs in an attempt to become self sustaining.

They have been sold out by the banks, by their government AND the EU. Others stuffed their pockets - they, the poor, are to pay the price.

And just about anybody, well mostly conservative Americans, in this thread takes a dump on them too.

You can deny this all you wish, cast doubt, shoot the messenger, whatever. I had my say, people think of this what you want, but remember: The rich got even richer and the poor even poorer. Thats the real story, and either you are an apologist of this or you support the common Greeks.





The Greek citizens bear as much responsibility as any other.

Tax avoidance in Greece is "a national sport"

They voted for the buffoons in office.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21910850 - 07/07/15 05:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Boomers ship all our jobs overseas, then demand we work harder to pay for their bloated retirements.



Their bloated retirements?  They got totally ripped of with what they they paid and what they will get


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Asante]
    #21910876 - 07/07/15 05:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Big banks, the EU and corporations are playing a money grabbing game regarding Greece.

Money grabbers from within Greece but especially outside it.

The common Greek citizen has nothing to do with this. (s)he hasnt partook in the wealth, they have just been making ends meet, under the sun, in a second tier economy.

These Greeks are now made to pay for the moneygrabbers' greed. As we speak they are hoarding food ready for dire dire times to come. Empty store shelves, most people transformed their gardens to produce veggies and even put pots on the roofs in an attempt to become self sustaining.

They have been sold out by the banks, by their government AND the EU. Others stuffed their pockets - they, the poor, are to pay the price.

And just about anybody, well mostly conservative Americans, in this thread takes a dump on them too.

You can deny this all you wish, cast doubt, shoot the messenger, whatever. I had my say, people think of this what you want, but remember: The rich got even richer and the poor even poorer. Thats the real story, and either you are an apologist of this or you support the common Greeks.






The common Greek citizen is a parasitic tax cheat panhandling bum.  They are about to rip off the rest of Europe for billions.  You would have to be an idiot to lend these leeches more money.  Piss on them.  They are moochers and bums and deserve not one more nickel.  If I borrow money from you and tell you to fuck off when you are due to get it back would you lend me more money?  Because if you would you would be a retard.  Sold out by the banks?  As far as I can tell it is the banks that are being sold out by the welfare bums in a shithole country of greedy little fucktards.


--------------------


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: koods]
    #21912433 - 07/07/15 10:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
You keep ignoring he demographic reasons why the rate is dropping. Fewer people age 16-24 are working because more are going to school.





and why would that be... because they dont have to repay the loans until after
graduation, because they stand a better chance of getting a job once they
graduate and they'll be competing against people that already have a degree for
jobs that pay less than expected and jobs outside of their field and some are
seeking other degrees because they've now discovered that negro and vagina
studies lke most liberal arts degrees dont cut it in the real world


more people are also staying in school for these same reasons

all of these reason point to one thing, the US is not in a recovery


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Beanhead]
    #21912467 - 07/07/15 11:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Beanhead said:
Quote:

chopstick said:
Quote:

Beanhead said:


Fuck giving government money. I'll gladly work, i'm just not giving my money away other then for ludicrous taxes :kingcrankey:




We should just all stop paying our taxes. Fuck it.




Nope, I pay my taxes. Fuck you asshole, pay your taxes.

I'm just not giving +50% of my paycheck away.

Working under the table is where it's at.





I pay in about $1500/year, I receive back about $9000 per year


you better believe I'm filing my taxes every gods damned time


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21913626 - 07/08/15 06:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:kingcrankey: Merica is OP


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21913742 - 07/08/15 07:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

koods said:
You keep ignoring he demographic reasons why the rate is dropping. Fewer people age 16-24 are working because more are going to school.





and why would that be... because they dont have to repay the loans until after
graduation, because they stand a better chance of getting a job once they
graduate and they'll be competing against people that already have a degree for
jobs that pay less than expected and jobs outside of their field and some are
seeking other degrees because they've now discovered that negro and vagina
studies lke most liberal arts degrees dont cut it in the real world

more people are also staying in school for these same reasons

all of these reason point to one thing, the US is not in a recovery




That trend is decades old. You need to learn how to read for comprehension, not just for cherry picking quotes.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21914801 - 07/08/15 12:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Boomers ship all our jobs overseas, then demand we work harder to pay for their bloated retirements.



Their bloated retirements?  They got totally ripped of with what they they paid and what they will get




You mean what WE will get it.


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Greece refuses to take responsibility of their fuck up [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #21915292 - 07/08/15 02:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Boomers ship all our jobs overseas, then demand we work harder to pay for their bloated retirements.



Their bloated retirements?  They got totally ripped of with what they they paid and what they will get




You mean what WE will get it.




The government embezzled the money.  I got ripped off and you kiddies are gonna get ripped off worse.  But keep on voting for liberals.  Shmucks.


--------------------


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