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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: Stonehenge]
#21901509 - 07/05/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: >The less countries there are the less wars. No brain-er. One federal gov would be wiser than having 50 more countries getting into who knows what kinds of wars.
I guess you haven't noticed obumble fomenting war all over the planet? I can't see a state doing that, they don't have access to as much taxpayer loot to throw away as the feds. Trim those feds way the hell back and trim the states too.
haha yeah. You and enlil are making some good points.
If our military was smaller, the entire earth would be more peaceful.
What is OP's hangup with small government? His main reasoning seems to be a bias against small government and not much else
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: Psilosopherr]
#21902284 - 07/05/15 06:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
What is OP's hangup with small government? His main reasoning seems to be a bias against small government and not much else
he claims to be against red tape but the largest source of red tape is generally the federal government.
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: psyconaught]
#21902299 - 07/05/15 06:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said:
Quote:
What is OP's hangup with small government? His main reasoning seems to be a bias against small government and not much else
he claims to be against red tape but the largest source of red tape is generally the federal government.
yeah that was his most confusing statement. could be my own lack of understanding though
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: Psilosopherr]
#21904775 - 07/06/15 10:07 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Pretty sure OP is saying we have too much chiefs and not enough indians.
One chief, no red tape.
Extremely slippery slope, though.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21904957 - 07/06/15 11:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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That line of reasoning makes absolutely no sense though. Everything currently handled by the states would still have to be handled, it would just be moved to Washington. And D.C. almost always requires more red tape than the states.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: psyconaught]
#21905309 - 07/06/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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psyconaught said: That line of reasoning makes absolutely no sense though. Everything currently handled by the states would still have to be handled, it would just be moved to Washington. And D.C. almost always requires more red tape than the states.
What's more streamlined:
Two bureaucracies or one? Two courts or one? Two legislative assemblies or one?
Ok good. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but I don't think there's any argument that removing checks and balances would create more red tape...
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21905401 - 07/06/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Local government better serves it people and a streamlined government sounds terrifying. The more stalling the better in government.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: Shins]
#21905436 - 07/06/15 02:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's not true, either.
If there wasn't so much stalling and obfuscating, maybe we could get legislation that a vast majority support like paid family medical leave.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: Lived_1978-2043]
#21905482 - 07/06/15 02:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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yeah, lets abolish state and local gov't. Let's also go ahead and eliminate congress. so many votes, thats a lot of red tape. it could be much more efficient if there were only one person deciding. While we are at it, we can abolish multiple political parties. after all, if there was only one party, elections would be more streamlined. Actually, now that i think of it, voting is so unwieldy. We should instead, make provisions for hereditary rule. No more wasting time on elections. We should move away from english common law, and switch over to Napoleonic law. After all, switching the burden of proof to the accused, will make the process of imprisonment much more streamlined.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: ballsalsa]
#21905494 - 07/06/15 02:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Benevolent dictator ftw
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21905700 - 07/06/15 03:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
psyconaught said: That line of reasoning makes absolutely no sense though. Everything currently handled by the states would still have to be handled, it would just be moved to Washington. And D.C. almost always requires more red tape than the states.
What's more streamlined:
Two bureaucracies or one? Two courts or one? Two legislative assemblies or one?
Ok good. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but I don't think there's any argument that removing checks and balances would create more red tape...
I would bet that 4 courts handling 25 issues a piece would be a lot more streamlined than one court handling 100 issues.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: psyconaught]
#21905759 - 07/06/15 03:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Really? I could eat some alphabet soup and shit a better analogy.
That's not even how the court system works.
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psyconaught
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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21905778 - 07/06/15 03:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ouch did i strike a nerve? 
If all of the local and state governments were condensed into one federal one that doesnt mean local and state issues would suddenly go away, they still need to be handled.
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ballsalsa
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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21905790 - 07/06/15 03:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Really? I could eat some alphabet soup and shit a better analogy.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: psyconaught]
#21905816 - 07/06/15 03:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said: Ouch did i strike a nerve? 
If all of the local and state governments were condensed into one federal one that doesnt mean local and state issues would suddenly go away, they still need to be handled.
Yep, and all the taxes that went to district and state courts now go to federal courts, so you're not losing the ability to process indictments whatsoever.
Except now, you don't have district courts with different sentencing guidelines than federal courts, the appeal process goes through one court instead of dozens...
And this is where I point out, again, that I'm not advocating a system like this at all, so you can dispense with the "lolol u butthurt."
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21950293 - 07/16/15 02:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Enlil said: You can be sure all you want, but you're completely wrong. There is no example of a government that large on the planet, and there's a good reason for that.
I agree that the states need to micromanage their own affairs but centralisation does have benefits in terms consistency and uniformity. So thst everything applied equally across the land, rather then having multiple different legal systems in every state, which causes problems for trade and inefficiencies.
I also think in theory that a new layer of world government should be put in place, similar to a federation of countries. I think it has a lot of great benefits to the functioning of the global economy and society in general if it were possible. and that it is more then likely to happen at some stage in the future.
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Enlil
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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: Soulidarity]
#21950771 - 07/16/15 07:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Consistency and uniformity are only beneficial in certain limited areas. For most things, it's better that each smaller unit of government be able to choose what is best for them.
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Soulidarity
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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: Enlil]
#21951513 - 07/16/15 11:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think it's definitely beneficial in terms of consumer protection and interstste commerce. the downside of this is adaptaptability and limitation.
One of the most interesting aspects I saw briefly of Americas corporate law framework was that in it not being centralised, it seemed that the states in some ways appeared to compete between eachother to present favourable frameworks to attract the business of big corporations, and that this active competition would work to sharpen the law, but in favour of the corporations. I.e. Shrude operators would choose to structure their affairs in the states thst had the most favourable frameworks for their purpose. It does raise issues of consumer protection, exploitation and costs too though.
In Australia our corporate law is nationalised and uniform. Australia is well renowned for having an ironclad and comprehensive legal system and being at the forefront of reform. The downside is malleability and stagnancy. Critics say that now our laws are set and they only vary slightly with judicial interpretation. The commonwealth is probably not going to review the situation for atleast a decade. But the stability and certainty has merit too. It's reliable.
Interesting differences in the approach though. Me myself being a capitalist I'm much more partial to the American model of being to choose the most favourable framework. But I guess looking at the bigger picture this can be done globally as well. I'm also fairly strongly persuaded by arbitration and private contracting. Being able to choose the seat, the rules, and even the arbiter in a scenario seems like an immense amount of possible leverage for a clever mind. I like all the strategical stuff.
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Edited by Soulidarity (07/16/15 11:29 AM)
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: Soulidarity]
#21951525 - 07/16/15 11:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Whst do you think in regards to establishing a global level of government? I.e. Federation of the countries. Where countries still micromanage themselves but have the overarching global government macro managing global issues?
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Enlil
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Re: Should local and state governments be abolished for one federal government? [Re: Soulidarity]
#21951550 - 07/16/15 11:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Small countries like Australia can have centralized government much easier than a large country like the U.S. could. California alone has a much larger population than Australia.
As far as a global government, nothing good can come from that...at least not for the big dogs. That can only serve to drag the powerful countries down and empower the weaker ones. I see no reason to cede sovereignty when we're in the position we're in.
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