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Dr.Satan
Mad Professor



Registered: 06/26/15
Posts: 2,182
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BRF TEK related question.
#21900132 - 07/05/15 09:00 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Okay, so It's been 6 days since inoc and no growth yet. I know that isn't normal, but I also know it's possible for growth to take 2 weeks or so to start. Upon further inspection of the inoc'ed jars I noticed I have random little clumps of brown rice flour that didn't get mixed too well into the substrate. Now I think there is enough mixed in properly, but I was wondering if those little clumps scattered through each of the jars will negatively effect the germination process? I'm almost certain as of today that the spores I received from a shroomery sponser were either very old or perhaps I just got ripped off. But as I said I know I still have about 8 days for growth to occur and if not then I will be certain they aren't going to grow. I am extremely excited about these jars and it's hard for me not to be concerned with the lack of growth. Any input is appreciated.
Also please note other then the clumps my jars appear fine, not too moist or anything, and I also followed the BRF tek perfectly so I didn't inoc while jars were hot from sterilization and so on.
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psilobob
Inter dimensional Explorer



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Re: BRF TEK related question. [Re: Dr.Satan]
#21900207 - 07/05/15 09:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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While it's best to get the flour mixed evenly I wouldn't worry about it too much. The flour is the nutrient source for your mycelium and the vermiculite is basically a moisture reservoir. Like you said another 7-8 days is probably when I would call it.
A few things that could cause some issues: Did you shake your syringe(s) before inoculation? - If the spores weren't distributed well you might have some issues getting germination
How did you sterilize your jars? - If they weren't sterilized properly then they might have contaminants and that can stunt growth
Any idea about the temperature range where they're being stored? - lower temps could slow growth also
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
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Re: BRF TEK related question. [Re: Dr.Satan]
#21900213 - 07/05/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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In the big picture you should be happy if you don't see anything for 6 days. If something happens much before that, it's more likely to be a contam than germination of mushroom spores.
That said my fastest MS syringe showed up after 3 days, slowest after 8 days. That's on grain, it's harder to see and potentially inside PF cakes. 5-8 seems more typical.
As for not mixing it perfectly, I doubt anyone really does. As long as the substrate was fluffy and not totally gooey, it should be fine.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Dr.Satan
Mad Professor



Registered: 06/26/15
Posts: 2,182
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Re: BRF TEK related question. [Re: psilobob]
#21900233 - 07/05/15 09:37 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I did shake the syringe before beginning the initial inoculations, but the syringe I received was mostly water there was maybe a dozen noticeable spores floating around. I know that they are typically microscopic so I didn't worry about it much.
As for sterilization I used the same method in the tek which was steam sterilizing for about 70 minutes. I know it said 90 in the tek, but I have heard 60 is sufficient so when my pot boiled dry at 70min I just said fuck it and turned off the stove.
The temp in my house stays at 78 degrees.
Thanks for the reply, I hope this info can help you bring me further insight
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Machiavelliavore
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Re: BRF TEK related question. [Re: Dr.Satan]
#21900256 - 07/05/15 09:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The amount of spore matter you describe seeing is typical.
Sounds like your steaming probably killed any mold spores. Not sure how much difference that extra 20-30 mins would make with bacteria. At this point all you can do is wait and find out.
60 mins is a typical PC time for cakes at 15psi. You are well bellow recommended times. If for some reason you can't fill your pot with enough water, simply put your stove on full heat, dump a cup of water in from time to time. It'll probably only take about 30s to come back up to temp, the set back to simmer.
Your house temp is pretty much perfect.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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psilobob
Inter dimensional Explorer



Registered: 05/28/15
Posts: 154
Loc: North Easty
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: BRF TEK related question. [Re: Dr.Satan]
#21900267 - 07/05/15 09:46 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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78F should be a good range for the jars, as long as it doesn't go too much higher you should be good. (80+ tends to speed up contams, I believe 86+ kills mycelium)
I've also heard boiling for 60+ is good, I usually boil for 90.
Sounds like the syringes might be the problem. Old syringes should still be viable but might make this stage of your grow take longer. If you don't see any growth it might be worth reaching out to the vendor. I wouldn't mention anything about growing but it might be worth mentioning the weak contents of the syringe.
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Dr.Satan
Mad Professor



Registered: 06/26/15
Posts: 2,182
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: In the big picture you should be happy if you don't see anything for 6 days. If something happens much before that, it's more likely to be a contam than germination of mushroom spores.
That said my fastest MS syringe showed up after 3 days, slowest after 8 days. That's on grain, it's harder to see and potentially inside PF cakes. 5-8 seems more typical.
As for not mixing it perfectly, I doubt anyone really does. As long as the substrate was fluffy and not totally gooey, it should be fine.
I've read about 3 days being the earliest, but I also read that old spores can take like 2-3weeks. Since I'm new to mycology I'm just trying to sift through the info and figure out what's fact and what is speculation. Also it's probably good to note the sponsor I ordered from has been a sponsor for years so I would assume the source is reliable, but at the same time I failed to mention I was a shroomery member so I'm thinking maybe the vender didn't take much time prepping the syringe and just gave me a bunk one
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Dr.Satan
Mad Professor



Registered: 06/26/15
Posts: 2,182
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Re: BRF TEK related question. [Re: Dr.Satan]
#21900302 - 07/05/15 09:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Good to hear about the house temp, and assuming I am able to get some growth from these I will definitely make sure to steam them longer next time. I inoculated a final jar yesterday afternoon and this time made sure to mix the substrate to perfection in order to see if it makes any difference. If none of these grow I'm just going to go to a different vendor I suppose, perhaps I'll have better luck. So you guys think after the initial jars hit the 2 week mark I should just call it a failure?
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Dr.Satan
Mad Professor



Registered: 06/26/15
Posts: 2,182
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Re: BRF TEK related question. [Re: psilobob]
#21900311 - 07/05/15 09:55 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilobob said: If you don't see any growth it might be worth reaching out to the vendor. I wouldn't mention anything about growing but it might be worth mentioning the weak contents of the syringe.
I considered this, but I was having trouble figuring out how I would word my issues without incriminating either of us. So this suggestion is much appreciated!
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
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Re: BRF TEK related question. [Re: Dr.Satan]
#21900312 - 07/05/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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These guys need to keep people to happy to stay in business. If they can't there are a hundred people on the marketplace forum who will sell you a B+ print for a couple of postal stamps.
The only reason I could see you having received old spores is if you ordered a highly atypical "variety" of cubensis. Even so, I doubt the vendor would be careless with that type of thing.
Spore germination time isn't just about how new spores are. I think even some very fresh spores I used took 5+ days. Don't remember exactly how many.
You have no reason to believe you have an issue at this point, other than your short steaming time. Even with that, I'd expect some partially colonized cakes at worst.
If it hits 2 weeks it is probably a failure. I would contact the vendor and ask for another syringe.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Dr.Satan
Mad Professor



Registered: 06/26/15
Posts: 2,182
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: These guys need to keep people to happy to stay in business. If they can't there are a hundred people on the marketplace forum who will sell you a B+ print for a couple of postal stamps.
The only reason I could see you having received old spores is if you ordered a highly atypical "variety" of cubensis. Even so, I doubt the vendor would be careless with that type of thing.
Spore germination time isn't just about how new spores are. I think even some very fresh spores I used took 5+ days. Don't remember exactly how many.
You have no reason to believe you have an issue at this point, other than your short steaming time. Even with that, I'd expect some partially colonized cakes at worst.
If it hits 2 weeks it is probably a failure. I would contact the vendor and ask for another syringe.
I still have to wait like 80 days before I can view the marketplace, and also I ordered KSSS since it had good reviews (on places other then the sites selling it of course).
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
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Re: BRF TEK related question. [Re: Dr.Satan]
#21900361 - 07/05/15 10:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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KSSS is very popular, so I'm sure it's fresh enough.
It'd be some strain with a description like this, you might want to worry: Thai Wa Hat Teh Fuk While John Allen was wandering the deep deep depth of thailand, and looking at some other cooler mushroom, he accidentally planted his boot in a pile of crap, and noticed a completely typical cubensis. He gave the print to a research student who tried to create an inactive cubensis for sale to idiots, but gave up after one too many superbly mediocre trips. A great addition to any collection!
My point was not that you need to use the marketplace, simply that if the vendors don't provide clean viabe spores, dirty prints are cheap and easily had.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Dr.Satan
Mad Professor



Registered: 06/26/15
Posts: 2,182
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: KSSS is very popular, so I'm sure it's fresh enough.
It'd be some strain with a description like this, you might want to worry: Thai Wa Hat Teh Fuk While John Allen was wandering the deep deep depth of thailand, and looking at some other cooler mushroom, he accidentally planted his boot in a pile of crap, and noticed a completely typical cubensis. He gave the print to a research student who tried to create an inactive cubensis for sale to idiots, but gave up after one too many superbly mediocre trips. A great addition to any collection!
My point was not that you need to use the marketplace, simply that if the vendors don't provide clean viabe spores, dirty prints are cheap and easily had.
Oh okay I see what ya mean :P. Well after reading through replies to this thread I definitely feel better about my odds of success, I mean as long as 1 jar colonizes without contam I'd call it a victory.
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