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ShroominMe
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Registered: 05/03/15
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Re: Go back and read the OP please. I've changed it rather than make a new thread. [Re: Diacetylmorphine]
#21916493 - 07/08/15 07:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm embarrassed that I wasted 5 minutes of my life reading the first couple of posts in this thread.
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Machiavelliavore
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Registered: 12/08/14
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Re: Second flush, grow box feels lighter than it should. Prev: How to best dry my shrooms? [Re: Diacetylmorphine]
#21917467 - 07/08/15 11:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I honestly am not sure what you are talking about with regards to the second flush, or what you did. You should be more concise.
Here's a few guesses:
If you are trying to make Liquid Inoculant (mycellium in water,) you would have needed to do it before your substrate was exposed to open air. If you are talking about making liquid culture (mycellium growing in nutritious liquid) out of your open-air spore print, that probably wouldn't be a great idea. If you want to try to make an LC, the syringe biopsy clone method sounds like the best chance for success without an airbox.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5874305/an/0/page/0 You can use other LC solutions, other syringe sterilization methods, etc. Also I would be tempted to tear off the very bottom of the stipe, plunge from the bottom of the mushroom straight up into the clean innards, then tear the rest of the stipe in half to release the needle.
It sounds like you are asking if it's okay that you dunked the substrate, and why it might be lighter? Dunking before first flush typically wouldn't be harmful but also isn't necessary. If it's done, it's usually before the 2nd or third flush. When it's needed depends on when the water content is exhausted. I just poke the sub to test for moisture content, think about how much flushed out, and dunk accordingly.
lighter: substrates shrink and expend water and nutrients to grow mushrooms, live, and colonize. The water can be replaced somewhat by dunking. They really do strink a lot, I have some that started out the size of a chocolate cake and are now the thickness of brownies.
The point of dunking is rehydrating the substrate. Extreme water pressure or submersion is not necessary. Since mushies are mostly water, a typical substrate might run out of water before running out of nutrients.
The purpose of misting is to keep the surface of the sub from drying out, and allow for surface evaporation.
A typical flush curve for most substrates would be 2:1:1, so if you play your cards right, expect that double your first flush result is a possible result.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
Edited by Machiavelliavore (07/08/15 11:19 PM)
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Diacetylmorphine
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Registered: 06/29/15
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Re: Second flush, grow box feels lighter than it should. Prev: How to best dry my shrooms? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
#21917838 - 07/09/15 02:07 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You seem to have misunderstood me a little, making liquid mycelium and my own substrate is a goal in the (hopefully not too distant) future. What I'm talking about is the lazyman growbox (the 100% colonized one). When I dunked/soaked that the instructions were to put it in a sealed soak bag (I didn't know it would swell up so I used a small bag that burst and leaked on me a little, I had it filled just below the brim of the box with the lid on, the fridge isn't one of those new fangled vibro-fridges and there were no earthquakes so I'm at a loss here as to how the water got out. Anyway it came out there was still some water in the box so I poured that as it had been given a full 12h soak feeling significantly lighter than it originally felt by about 1-2 thirds, naturally when it came out last it had about 300g of mushrooms sitting on it which must have used at least some of the moist air and 'artificial rain' I gave them. After now about 40h I can see new mycelium growing and some of the very small pins and aborts I missed (about 1mm - 3mm in size) dying off and going blackish, I took a photo today and with soap cleaned hands removed the largest just in case of infection (though I gave it a good smell, doesn't smell of bacteria); I'm hoping the mycelium will use the dead mycelium for food. There is new mycelium growing though I'm worried that the grow might stall around the small-medium pin stage due to a lack of hydration. Could this happen? Is there any sort of preventative measures I can take? (such as using a sterile 10 or 20ml syringe to 'inoculate' the substrate with water or should I just keep calm and give it a few more days? Though this is a fast grower from mycelium to knots in 4 days, pins in 6, bigger pins come 8 and harvest day come day 9; evening, which is why I want to get this dealt with (if it needs dealt with) quickly.
Sorry for any confusion -Dia
-------------------- It's not YOUR celium it's MYcelium.
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Machiavelliavore
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Registered: 12/08/14
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Re: Second flush, grow box feels lighter than it should. Prev: How to best dry my shrooms? [Re: Diacetylmorphine]
#21917874 - 07/09/15 02:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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It should be fine. You don't need any insane water pressure to execute a successful dunk. Since it's a small sub, the surface area to volume ratio is pretty high, and it should have hydrated quickly. Subs do lose a lot of volume. Regardless, it is what it is. Magic pixies didn't steal any mass, and it likely hydrated to near its current maximum capacity.
Remove those aborts. Old decaying mushroom tissue is great for contams. Try to pluck the whole abord out, as sometimes they're slightly submerged in he substrate. As for still viable pins being dunked, I'm honestly not sure what happens to them. Just observe. They're either grow or stagnate. It should be fairly obvious which in a few days. Remove if they don't do anything. Otherwise, just let it happen baby.
Most of your misting either evaporated immediately, or temporarily hydrated the pinning surface before it evaporated again. Likely little if any of that water was used in your mushrooms. Most of that would have come from the substrate directly.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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psilo cybe
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Registered: 03/20/15
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Re: Second flush, grow box feels lighter than it should. Prev: How to best dry my shrooms? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
#21918038 - 07/09/15 04:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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nice grow dude (:
any prints for trade?
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Diacetylmorphine
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Registered: 06/29/15
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Re: Second flush, grow box feels lighter than it should. Prev: How to best dry my shrooms? [Re: psilo cybe]
#21918139 - 07/09/15 05:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I only made one print and I'll be using that one personally, however once my second flush comes (fingers crossed) I'll send you a print of the biggest cap I get so long as you don't live in Aus or somewhere where customs will stop it and cultivate their own mushrooms :P
Quote:
You don't need any insane water pressure to execute a successful dunk.
I know, again a small misunderstanding of what I'm trying to say. At the factory where these are cultivated before being shipped out I bet they use some sort pressure assembly to completely saturate the substrate as the substrate goes in before the spores therefore allowing extreme methods to be used on the substrate that shouldn't be used after inoculation. Extremely high pressure when cultivated would probably harm, if not outright kill the mycelium. Besides other than a power/pressure hose (substrate and mycelium everywhere ) I wouldn't be equipped to put substrate under pressure during a dunk.
That said; who wouldn't want to own a mushroom factory. Hopefully with my degree in chemistry (biochemistry really with a focus on pharmaceutical manufacture and effect) I could one day have a factory of my own producing substances that I hope are made legal once the dinosaurs in politics die off and the new; better educated generation move in and if that doesn't happen Guy Fawkes had an excellent plan, he just screwed up on the execution :P One can dream. 
Edit, as for removing the old dunked aborts, I removed them with a makeshift surgeon's mask on; no gloves; (unless you're getting them sterile from a hospital out of a packet) the gloves surgeons use, not nurses; the ones the nurses get for giving you shots or taking blood; or the doctors are simply aeseptic gloves, one notch down from sterile, the ones in theatre are individually wrapped and vacuum sealed, you don't want your patient dying of MRSA just because someone put their hands on the gloves before thinking "shit, I've not scrubbed in already, I simply scrubbed well with an antibacterial soap and went after any aborts I might have missed with a magnifying glass and needle nose tweezers while shining a 72 LED work light on the whole thing. Anything that was black on top went away, anything white stayed.
-------------------- It's not YOUR celium it's MYcelium.
Edited by Diacetylmorphine (07/09/15 07:01 AM)
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
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Re: Second flush, grow box feels lighter than it should. Prev: How to best dry my shrooms? [Re: Diacetylmorphine]
#21918179 - 07/09/15 06:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So what arrived at your home was a colonized substrate correct?
Most likely it is a bulk substrate (probably coir or straw) inoculated with grain spawn. Bulk substrates don't like to colonize when they are wet. Mycellium likes fluffy, so afaik the general goal is to get the sub as wet as possible while still having it be fluffy and not prone to contamination due to sopping wet areas. FYI said water capacity for coir is about 2:5 volumetrically, water to hydrated substrate.
Anyway, once the bulk substrate (water capacity) is colonized by the grain spawn (nutrient capacity + inoculation points,) they most likely just ship it to you, as it should still have plenty of water for the first flush and beyond, depending on the spawn ratio.
The reason your knotting and pinning occurred so quickly was probably that this brick had been consolidating for quite some time and was chomping at the bit to get fruiting as soon as it was exposed to pinning triggers.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
Edited by Machiavelliavore (07/09/15 06:17 AM)
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Diacetylmorphine
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Registered: 06/29/15
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Re: Second flush, grow box feels lighter than it should. Prev: How to best dry my shrooms? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
#21926489 - 07/10/15 10:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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True. This one mustn't have been properly dunked as the mycelium seems to be disappearing at the sides of the box (not on top though) and there are two small pins forming at the side of the tube while everything else almost looks like it's at it's hyphal knotting stage. However the bottom of the tub looks healthier than ever. If after another few days or so the two pins abort or die off I'm gonna dunk it again and flip it out directly into the bag so it can colonise everywhere, or into another container (Tupperware, we have loads of it and it seals well) with the bottom which looks more alive than the top facing up.
I can do that right, so long as I'm gentle, hygienic and careful? if it starts to spawn higher than the container closes I'll weigh the growbag down on top of it after sterilising it. I want to get at least two decent grows out of this.
<Start rant> It doesn't help that my 'friend' pretty much stole 60g of mushrooms from me (I'd eaten loads and was experiencing ego death and stuff so all he said was (he had promised he wouldn't ask for anything when he called; 30 mins in "Do you have any flubromazolam mate??"; essentially he hasn't changed one bit since he hung around town hall in 2009/2010, has a stuid beard that parts in the middle and covers his unwashed hair with caps making it look like he's a fucking bearded condom); while I was laying out on my bed not really understanding that he had promised he wouldn't ask for anything (I promised him some so long as he got down before 4pm. I get a text "Oh I don't feel well, flu etc" magically at 5pm his flu is cured and he calls round for '20 minutes' which ended up being until 9pm, he even marched me 4-5 miles (I have a knee with torn cruciates (as well as other minor ligaments) pain has been getting worse and worse, shall be seeing doctor on the 24th) just so he could buy a bag of weed and then he marched us the rest of the 4mi so he could smoke it in a field in the middle of nowhere. Long and short of it was I called him up and said where are 60g of my mushrooms (6g dry, had a 32g harvest or thereabouts so it was significant enough as mushrooms are rare here and thus very expensive not that I will be selling any of mine, personal use only) and he was extremely rude down the phone, outright denied it and then tried to phone me today then texted me saying he would meet up and do something that isn't allowed for them. I intend to get him to come down to my house, sit him down in the living room and tell him that he's done this at least once before (grabbed up diclazepam and tried to cover his tracks but since I use food flavour for the solvent (98% P-glycol) he used the wrong one and I new instantly. I sent him a text saying he could fix things if he admitted it (which he eventually did with lots of excuses of how it wasn't his fault); having him in the living room is odd instead of going upstairs to play vidya games, tell him that he can repair things somehow (Personally since the values match up to a growbox and I'm just not ready to graduate yet) so a gift of one of those might be nice (if these are against forum rules notify me at once, but if you're allowed to give away shrooms, giving away a grow kit should be okay to rectify his massive error) but that he's no longer allowed on the premises. If he wants to chill I can chill at his place but his light fingers aren't allowed in my place any more. As I've said he's a manchild and when something goes wrong mummy and daddy help him (he even phones him for lifts (rides/drives US guys) home at 11pm when it's a 10 minute walk with good legs like his, 15 with my gimpy leg. </rant>
So I really want to graduate from grow kit academy I have a friend who rents a house (from her friend) with 4 floors and I might see if I can get the master room on the top floor rented and turn it into one big place for automated mycelial study (I've the money to get everything set up such as ultrasonic misters, timers, computer fans, HEPA filters and such). I'll discuss how rent can be paid (favours or hard cash; about £40-60 a month), set up a lock on the door to which I only have the key I I might hide one really well and let the home-owner know where it is ICE such as fire or water leakage but since the room would be locked up tight it gives her plausible deniability "He just stayed here when his mother was being a dick, I know nothing about any mushrooms, he usually came in when I was out and he locks the door and keeps the only key. I thought he was just a bit over paranoid about his stuff getting damaged/moved around if I invited people over" so if the grow did get busted then she would be in the clear, legally anyway. I know her through her boyfriend and he used to grow plants so he would be in the house at times and could check on my kit and notify me if I need to get a taxi over and refill things, fix wiring, turn on a heat-mat to get it to optimal temperature or let me know that my grow has started certain life stages. Obviously this would be up to both the X (the homeowner) and Y (the boyfriend) but I'll meet up with one or both of them tomorrow and see if they're open to it.
-------------------- It's not YOUR celium it's MYcelium.
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
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Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
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Re: Second flush, grow box feels lighter than it should. Prev: How to best dry my shrooms? [Re: Diacetylmorphine]
#21927269 - 07/11/15 03:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Try to be more concise. Excessive interjections make it hard to follow what you're saying, and you aren't precise enough about what you do say.
I think what you said was that you substrate is shrinking? This is normal. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure exactly why it occurs to such a great degree. The raw materials are being consumed and not replaced, and perhaps the water capacity is dropping as well.
You have already dunked it (with a leak) after the first flush, and you see knotting on top of the brick along with two sidepins? Then just leave it, it's doing exactly what it's supposed to.
Even if it didn't quite hit full hydration, the end result would probably just be a smaller 2nd and larger 3rd flush after the next dunk.
All you've done is fruited a colonized substrate. Might wanna try doing sterile work before you commit to building a secret lab. If you really have to do too much tiptoeing at home to accomplish anything, I understand. I just wouldn't go investing in crazy equipment other than a PC + quart plastic twisttops + mini monotubs + still air box.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Diacetylmorphine
Stranger


Registered: 06/29/15
Posts: 51
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Second flush, grow box feels lighter than it should. Prev: How to best dry my shrooms? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
#21928461 - 07/11/15 11:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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True. This one mustn't have been properly dunked as the mycelium seems to be disappearing at the sides of the box (not on top though) and there are two small pins forming at the side of the tube while everything else almost looks like it's at it's hyphal knotting stage. However the bottom of the tub looks healthier than ever. If after another few days or so the two pins abort or die off I'm gonna dunk it again and flip it out directly into the bag so it can colonise everywhere, or into another container (Tupperware, we have loads of it and it seals well) with the bottom which looks more alive than the top facing up.
I can do that right, so long as I'm gentle, hygienic and careful? if it starts to spawn higher than the container closes I'll weigh the growbag down on top of it after sterilising it. I want to get at least two decent grows out of this.
<Start rant> It doesn't help that my 'friend' pretty much stole 60g of mushrooms from me (I'd eaten loads and was experiencing ego death and stuff so all he said was (he had promised he wouldn't ask for anything when he called; 30 mins in "Do you have any flubromazolam mate??"; essentially he hasn't changed one bit since he hung around town hall in 2009/2010, has a stuid beard that parts in the middle and covers his unwashed hair with caps making it look like he's a fucking bearded condom); while I was laying out on my bed not really understanding that he had promised he wouldn't ask for anything (I promised him some so long as he got down before 4pm. I get a text "Oh I don't feel well, flu etc" magically at 5pm his flu is cured and he calls round for '20 minutes' which eQuote:
Machiavelliavore said: Try to be more concise. Excessive interjections make it hard to follow what you're saying, and you aren't precise enough about what you do say.
I think what you said was that you substrate is shrinking? This is normal. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure exactly why it occurs to such a great degree. The raw materials are being consumed and not replaced, and perhaps the water capacity is dropping as well.
You have already dunked it (with a leak) after the first flush, and you see knotting on top of the brick along with two sidepins? Then just leave it, it's doing exactly what it's supposed to.
Even if it didn't quite hit full hydration, the end result would probably just be a smaller 2nd and larger 3rd flush after the next dunk.
All you've done is fruited a colonized substrate. Might wanna try doing sterile work before you commit to building a secret lab. If you really have to do too much tiptoeing at home to accomplish anything, I understand. I just wouldn't go investing in crazy equipment other than a PC + quart plastic twisttops + mini monotubs + still air box.
I don't have to do that much tiptoeing, I usually get a few days to myself and stuff, thing is; there is a big but not too big tupperware container that would make a great mono-tub. Temperature is really the only issue. The spare room is cramped and warm and good for hiding small things (like grow boxes) but I don't think I could get a mono tub grow going. One thing I've been thinking of doing is tidying up the attic and moving an inoculated mono-tub up there, but there's literally 30 years of shit up there so hygiene would be an issue, I'd probably have to build my own with it's own fans and HEPA filters, power for a heat mat, light and timer circuits aren't a problem, essentially I could build a self contained monotub; buy an ultrasonic mister, hot glue everything together, except the top of course, which would be air tight. Then since the retard builders my cheap ass landlord bought in wrecked the attic wiring but were kind enough to put in a switch for a ceiling fan which is never used and the switch is almost out of reach (and therefore out of sight) all I would have to do is pull the wires from the fan, solder more cable (probably a cable leading to a 6 plug splitter; just missing it's own plug as that will be what I'll solder on) then just plug in all the electrical equipment (Fan for HEPA filter FEA), timer, leat mat/s and electronic mister then I'd just have to go up and check every day or so and make sure everything is working in order. As for working with mains electrical equipment, I'll make sure the breaker on the fan and possibly the main breaker for the whole house is cut off; I've done it plenty of times before, even had to swap out circuit breakers when someone plugged in a smoke machine which had had it's cable fire-damaged and thus stripped bare. Apparently it made smoke, but not the right kind; they even got a fireworks show before the breaker blew up rather than switching the machine off. I can remember my father wiring up the attic and getting me to help when I was like 5 and since he died when I was 6 I've been the house's plumber, electrician, plasterer and technology person. So hopefully this 'experience' should get a semi automated grow tub (or possibly separate tubs separated about 2.5cm and arranged in a 'graph paper' pattern then held together with small spots of that godawful expanding yellow foam that gets everywhere (you know, this type of stuff) so if one tub gets contaminated the others are much less likely to.
On the <rant> front I managed to phone corner the person(Phone number was blocked so I dialed from an anonymous # (141 prefix) and he picked up); he tried to tell me he was south of the border. What he didn't know was I had his home phone number, so I gave it a few minutes and rang that. Low and behold, he wasn't hundreds of miles away, he was a 10 minute walk. He finally capitulated and said he'd pay me, then he turns up (daddy waiting outside in the car) with poorly dried black/gray shrooms that he'd tied in knots and shit. They definitely are infested with bacteria because his life is falling apart around him so much that he can't even put mushrooms on tissue in a warm spot and check twice daily, he must have dumped them on cotton wool and left them out in the sun for half a day and let them take on damp in the night. Oh well, I should have some real friends calling up tomorrow and we can all trip together on free handouts rather than light fingered thieves helping themselves. </rant>
Also once again thanks for being so friendly and helpful.
-------------------- It's not YOUR celium it's MYcelium.
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