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InvisibleDevoswitch
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: thewanderer25]
    #21903709 - 07/06/15 12:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It's all good, I know how it is. I too used to run set from my problems but not anymore any now I'm a better person for it! Take some you time.
Don't worry about your parents expectations. Just be the best you can be. Most of all be happy! This is your life


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InvisibleGottaloveacid
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: Achillita]
    #21903719 - 07/06/15 12:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Achillita said:
100 mg is not an eight of cubes according to erowid. Around 25 mg is similar to 5+ grams of cubes. That being said, it's thought that 4-ACO-Dmt metabolizes into psilocin, the same way as psilocybin does.

If it does metabolize into psilocin, then it'd be near non-toxic. You'd probably be okay(there was a report on blue light of someone taking 250-500 mg and not experiencing any ill effects). But you'd trip nuts. The dose you wanna do would be like a few ounces of mushrooms, plus a moai?

Know your dose man.




There is no actual evidence that 4-aco-dmt breaks down into purely psilocin, however there is some evidence hinting that it both breaks down into psilocin AND is active in it's own right


To the op - This sounds like a very bad idea. There isn't enough evidence on how 4-aco-dmt is metabolized in the body. For all you could know, taking 200mg could be a lethal amount but you would be the first person to figure it out.

A gram of cubes has approximately 9mg of psilocybin and 4.5mg of psilocin, so about 13.5mg of active psilocin. If you did a gram of psilocin, it would be approximately the same as about 75 dried grams of cubensis shrooms. That is an incredible amount of shrooms, but keep in mind 4-aco-dmt may not just break down into psilocin but can be active in it's own right.


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: Gottaloveacid]
    #21904053 - 07/06/15 05:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Phewwww i wouldn't do that much  4aco...everything ive ever read says its just like psilocin. Which would not be a good time over 4-5 grams of dried cubes.

4homet and 4homipt always seemed a lot smoother with a whole let less omfg im freaking out. 4 ho met especially is funny because you can dose up and get the best tryptamine visuals and be almost sober the whole time. Experiencing that will give you a true perspective on how intense the mind fuck is with psilocin.

I do believe psilocin is actually more colorful than both 4homipt&4homet.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: Dr.Satan]
    #21904092 - 07/06/15 05:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Dr.Satan said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

Dr.Satan said:
Out of curiosity is this compound legal? I am interested in it, but I'm not going to look into ordering it if it's not. Anyone with knowledge on this please let me know here or PM me if you'd prefer to.




Its available online as a research chemical.

You have to know the analogue laws to understand its grey area status.

It can be illegal in some situations, like if it were offered for human consumption it would stop being a reserach chemical and become an analogue.

Research the federal analogue act of 1986 as well as your current analogue laws if you want a detailed explaination, but I think I covered the situation in its most basic sense above...

-E. Borodin




Thanks! I am going to research the analogue act ASAP. But just to clarify as long as it's being sold for research and not human consumption it's legal for purchase in the US?




Yeah you should have no problem finding a vendor who ships to the US, though these analogue loop-holes do more to protect the vendors than the consumers.

(But because the compound is schedule one is some situations and legal in others research would be a must before a purchase, unless you just accept that its legal to buy but pretty much illeagal to do anything else with)

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21904105 - 07/06/15 05:56 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

30mgs of psocin can be an insane experiance, this would be like a 4-5g stropharia cubensis experiance.

Now if 4-aco-DMT becomes 4-ho-DMT in vivo (as is the most reasonable pathway, though this has not been confirmed) are you really going to want near 200mgs of psilocin in your body?

Maybe nature had it right by stashing psilocin in a cataphore so humans could not consume the ammount needed to reach death.....

...its really not your job to eat massive ammounts of research chemicals for science, you are going to end up hurting yourself for nothing....

Sorry, I just have such a deep admiration for these 4-substituted tryptamine compounds, and don't want to see my compounds become scheduled, it only takes one or two incidents for this to happen...and nobody says "how could this person eat that much" they all say "my God, this compound is hurting our children"

Please just be responsible in whatever you do, and please stay safe.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #21904117 - 07/06/15 06:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

preschooler said:
Phewwww i wouldn't do that much  4aco...everything ive ever read says its just like psilocin. Which would not be a good time over 4-5 grams of dried cubes.

4homet and 4homipt always seemed a lot smoother with a whole let less omfg im freaking out. 4 ho met especially is funny because you can dose up and get the best tryptamine visuals and be almost sober the whole time. Experiencing that will give you a true perspective on how intense the mind fuck is with psilocin.

I do believe psilocin is actually more colorful than both 4homipt&4homet.




4-hydroxy-N-methy-N-ethyl-tryptamine (4-ho-MET) is amazing, one of my favorite 4-hydroxylated tryptamines.

4-ho-met was also one of the compounds jochen gartz was able to produce by innoculating stropharia cubensis mycellium with MET (n-methyl-n-ethyl-tryptamine), extracting the compound from the fruited cataphores at the end of the experiment.


-E. Borodin


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21904135 - 07/06/15 06:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

4 acodmt seems a lot like a novelty and by weight almost identical in potency.If you have mushrooms I really don't see the point. Relatively pure samples of psilocin can be made quite easily with acid/heat.

4 acodmt in itself seems more dangerous than a lot of tryptamines because it resembles pure psilocin so much which could render somebody fucked with just the right dose. Ive seen a person not even be able to talk/walk or speak with just 4 grams of mushrooms and that would only equal 40-50mg of psilo.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21904137 - 07/06/15 06:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Just to clear this up, the 4-acetoxy-DMT should be metabolized in vivo (meaning in the body) into 4-ho-DMT (psilocin)

Just like how in an-acetyl-LSD, the compound is metabolized so that where the acetyl group was a hydrogen atom remains, meaning n-acetyl-LSD becomes LSD in the body.

Same goes for an acetoxy group, but since its acetoxy instead of acetyl it leaves a hydroxy group.

So 4-acetoxy-DMT goes in the body, the acetoxy group is metabalised into a hydroxy group, and it becomes 4-HYDROXY-DMT (psilocin).

So its behaving EXACTLY like psilocybin, which is not active, 4-po-DMT goes in the body, the phosphorloxy group becomes a hydroxy group, converting the inactive psilocybin into the active psilocin....only with 4-aco-DMT its an acetoxy group being metabolized into a hydroxy group forming psilocin /instead of a phisphorloxy group which does the same thing...

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21904151 - 07/06/15 06:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

...50mgs in 4g stropharia cubensis seems a bit high, in reality 5g stropharia cubensis should only contain between 25-35mgs.

https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info4.shtml

This chart should help (though potency can vary from crop to crop)

-E. Borodin


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21904174 - 07/06/15 06:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

preschooler said:
Phewwww i wouldn't do that much  4aco...everything ive ever read says its just like psilocin. Which would not be a good time over 4-5 grams of dried cubes.

4homet and 4homipt always seemed a lot smoother with a whole let less omfg im freaking out. 4 ho met especially is funny because you can dose up and get the best tryptamine visuals and be almost sober the whole time. Experiencing that will give you a true perspective on how intense the mind fuck is with psilocin.

I do believe psilocin is actually more colorful than both 4homipt&4homet.




4-hydroxy-N-methy-N-ethyl-tryptamine (4-ho-MET) is amazing, one of my favorite 4-hydroxylated tryptamines.

4-ho-met was also one of the compounds jochen gartz was able to produce by innoculating stropharia cubensis mycellium with MET (n-methyl-n-ethyl-tryptamine), extracting the compound from the fruited cataphores at the end of the experiment.


-E. Borodin


I definatley have to look that up. Ive always believed whats in the substrate can determine the outcome of the tryptamine. Itd would be freakin awesome to have some 4homet shrooms:hehehe:

YOu are saying(4acodmt) metabolizes to psilocin? For give my ignorance to chem ....can you explain how?


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #21904351 - 07/06/15 07:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

As for jochen gartz, http://countyourculture.com/2012/02/17/biosynthesis-4-substituted-tryptamine-derivatives/ this link should cover it, though it only references diethyltryptamine (DET) being converted into 4-ho-DET and 4-po-DET I can clearly remember MET bring used as well.

Here's the chemistry part, ill try to not be very technical here...

With 4-aco-DMT it enters the body where enzymes "pull-apart" the acetoxy group at position 4 leaving a hydroxy group in its place, so you ate 4-aco-dmt, but after ingestion enzymes in your body converted it to 4-ho-DMT (psilocin).

Your body basically "turns it into" psilocin through metabolization.

(Just like psilocybin, which has a phosphorloxy group at position 4, psilocybin is inactive, it needs to be metabolized in the body to the active compound psilocin, this happens when enzymes "pull-appart" the phodphorloxy group leaving a hydroxy group in its place, so 4-po-DMT is converted to 4-ho-DMT, just as 4-aco-DMT is converted into 4-Ho-DMT.

I hope this makes sense, if you look at a picture of the 2-d molecules it may be easier to understand what I'm saying,

DMT is composed of a benzene ring connected to a pyrole ring with a 2 carbon side chain ending in a nitrogen atom with two methyl groups connected, the molecule is numbered counter clock-wise with position one starting at the bottom right side of the pyrrole ring. Position 4 is the "top" of the benzene ring, so if you look at the 2-D molecules you will see a bulky substition at this position, the body basically reduces this bulky substitution (via enzymes) into a smaller hydroxy group.

I hope this all makes sense...

-E. Borodin


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #21904353 - 07/06/15 07:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

"jochen gartz" Thanks for the name drop, his stuff looks incredibly interesting. Got a free download of his book "magic mushrooms of the world". 57 dollars in paperback!!!The paper you mentioned of biotransformation is like 6 bucks to read so ill have to wait until I have more time...looks awesome tho!!!


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21904373 - 07/06/15 07:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the link!!! And ill have to do some reading on the other for my brain to make sense of it...thank you tho.

Best info on the subject I've ever seen.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21904406 - 07/06/15 07:55 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

No problem, I'm glad I could provide information of use.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21904420 - 07/06/15 08:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Though this metabolism of these tryptamines has never been confirmed, meaning the tests have not been conducted, its the most logical pathway for these compounds, all the evidence points to this being the case.

Here's shulgins take on it, keep in mind TIHKAL is an older publication (1997 I think)

On the topic of psilocybin and psilocin, one of the most frequent questions I am asked is, "Isn't it true that psilocybin is immediately converted to psilocin in the blood stream, and so the two chemicals are in essence identical, molecule for molecule?" At this moment I always suppress a brief sense of mental fragmentation, with the automatic reply, "Where is the evidence that psilocybin is converted to psilocin in man?" If it exists, I certainly do not know of it. This clears my conscience. I really do not know the answer. But I have a tremendously strong suspicion that it really does. Any such ester, be it the phosphate, the sulfate, or the acetate, would all be easily split to the archetypal indolol by the ubiquitous esterases in the body. I do indeed believe, in my inner heart, that they all act upon the brain as the same end product, psilocin. And here, with the N,N-diethyl homologue, the same arguments probably hold as well. -shulgin ; TIHKAL

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum] * 1
    #21904427 - 07/06/15 08:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Here's some more shulgin commentary on gartz:

However there is a very interesting study that took place in Leipzig about 15 years ago. Jochen Gartz, a mushroom explorer whom I know quite well, has done some fascinating studies with Psilocybe species by raising them on solid media containing strange tryptamines that are alien to the mushroom. Apparently the enzymes that are responsible for the 4-hydroxy group of psilocin are indifferent to what it is they choose to 4-hydroxylate. He has taken things like DPT or DIPT and put them in the growth media and the fruiting bodies that came out contain 4-hydroxy-DPT or 4-hydroxy-DIPT instead of psilocin. In fact, he has a patent on the process. These active compounds are made by the mushroom so they really are natural and yet they never have been observed in nature. I'll give you even odds that if you put spores of a psilocybe species on cow droppings loaded with 5-MeO-DMT you would come out with mushrooms containing 4,5-HO-MeO-DMT. This way you avoid a 10 step synthesis by growing a psychoactive mushroom that contains no illegal drug. -A. Shulgin

-E. Borodin


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21904428 - 07/06/15 08:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I followed john f casale's work where the experiments he conducted using acid and heat to completely convert psilocybin to psilocin.

It puzzled me how this could happen with out enzymatic activity from the body. But I think in his papers he mentions that the mushroom is loaded with the proper enzymes to convert as well.

I wonder if by using a mix acid/heat/mushroom/4acodmt if the end result would be psilocin since the enzymes are present to possibly make the transformation.


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OfflineBigHeart
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: thewanderer25] * 1
    #21906033 - 07/06/15 04:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Govam said:
I had a 500mg bag a while back. dosed roughly 100mg in a day between myself and 3 friends. 10 each all together, no effects. Myself and one friend pursued it and insufflated 20mg each additionally. A second friend ate another 20mg. Myself and the first friend saw a wobbly ceiling, along with a 'heavy' mushroom feeling.

Erowid lists the threshold dose for this unresearched chemical as 2.5mg. It was roughly 3 hours between our doses. I feel safe saying our (myself and first friend)doses could be equivalent to 25mg oral. With this in mind, I decided in regard to my safety and my health, the remaining powder was 10% effective/pure.

Weeks later, I got off work and ate the remaining 400mg. I was expecting a trip, at the very least. I was expecting a 30 minute minimum onset as well. No. Within 10 minutes I'm melting as I drive home. Without holding my hand out the window, I probably would have combusted and died.

Once I arrive at my home, ~25 minutes after dosing, my visuals are insane. I am still capable of speech and basic motor function. To my bed. What ensued was pure fucking agony. At one point I was reliving my entire childhood, sobbing, begging for help. Every figure in my life passed me by. I was alone. I asked for death, it had to end. I was killed. Only to be reborn as what I already was. A part of the universe. Even as a sound, I would still feel this horrible pain. This misery. At that point I lost my ego and blacked out for 8 hours.

The comedown was the most beautiful experience of my life. That trip, that chemical left me with the knowledge that I have been given a front row ticket to this beautiful experience called life. Only through being a custodian of my portion of the universe. That is the only route to harmony. To Unity.

If you actively want to pursue something like what I had at roughly 40mg, you're not even ready for what 4mg can show you. Taking psychedelics is not badass. It's a profound shift of consciousness. Be respectful and humble. Be patient. Be cautious.





I would like to fix some of the misinformation in this post.  First of all, your 4-ACO-DMT was not 10% pure, it was probably closer to 100%.  What happened is that you took 10mg at first, and thus had a tolerance when you redosed the 20mg three hours later.  This is evidenced by the fact that you did have a "heavy mushroom feeling" and saw open eye visuals.  You wouldn't get that feeling if you only redosed 2mg (if your 20mg dose was only 10% pure).  If you had just taken 30mg at once then you'd have had a good hard trip, but you messed it up by getting a tolerance from the first 10mg and then redosing three hours later.

Secondly, wtf were you doing driving after dosing 400mg of 4-ACO-DMT??? You are lucky to be alive, just from driving on that much, not counting the fact that you took such a high dose.  Once again, your stuff was not "only 10% pure" because if it was, then you wouldn't have blacked out for 8 hours and still have been tripping, because 40mg wouldn't do that, it lasts only 4-5 hours and only about 2 hours of that are intense peaking. 

To everyone who reads this:  DON'T TAKE 400mg OF 4-ACO-DMT. 


Quote:

thewanderer25 said:
I will wait a while till i'm more happy and then consider this more I will probably not do it but if I do I will start with 40mg then go to 100mg but I doubt I will go over 200mg. This thread is just be me contemplating being stupid because im sad sorry I didn't see it earlier. When im sad I tend to do stupid recluse things like taking 1000mg of 4-ACO-DMT as a matter of fact the trip that messed me up for months was a few weeks after my best friend's funeral. Im starting to get this was a bad idea thanks guys.




Good!  I'm glad you're not going through with that bad plan of doing 1000mg.  40mg is going to be a very intense trip and should do everything you're wanting to do, might even be too intense but it definitely won't dissapoint strength wise.  I personally think you might want to do a little less than 40mg for the first time, so you can get comfortable with it and figure out how much you'll need for a heavier trip.  Again, you're making a better choice now so good job but I'd still go a little lower than 40mg the first time, trust me and everyone else in this thread when we say it's no joke, this stuff is intense.


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: BigHeart]
    #21906240 - 07/06/15 05:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If go over 100 you are dumb.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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Offlinethewanderer25
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Re: Taking insane amounts of 4-Aco-DMT. [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #21906265 - 07/06/15 05:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
If go over 100 you are dumb.



I have been...


--------------------


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