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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,855
Last seen: 19 hours, 21 minutes
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
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ZeroBoyWD said: We'll see how my bulk tub does and I'll give half a spin. But shit man, a quarter was enough to make me get dissociative at the peak. Probably just a personal issue here, but how do you cope with compulsive squirmy-ness. On mushrooms its as if my body is trying in vain to reassemble itself into a new form. Its similar to when I'm coming down from acid, where I feel like I'm sitting six inches in front of myself making every face, form and gesture at once. Makes me think of Avalokiteshvara, the 1000 armed woman... I mean I get used to it but it freaks people out when you can't use words properly and you're twisting around on the floor.
Stretching and generally taking better care of my body has helped a lot with body load, both with acid and mushrooms.
As far as talking to people or worrying what they think, it's one of the reasons I prefer to be alone when I'm going deep.
Yeah I always get the feeling people are thinking I'm insane. Probably because I feel insane 
Maybe measuring change in pupil size could be an objective way to gauge potency.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Gauging / Testing Potency [Re: MudaFuka]
#21905128 - 07/06/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I will give those all a read again. But I have seen enough studies on alkaloid production of fungi suggesting that the ability of the organisim to convert triptamine to alkaloids is not only limited by genetics ability to convert It but also by how bio available it is. Some species have even been shown to have limitations based on the availability of other elements in the substrate.
At any rate its not really relevant to the discussion at hand. We are talking about psilocybin production, not the conversion of DET to DMT. Its interesting as an exercise but in practice, why the hell would i go to the trouble of obtaining that to make DMT when I can simply grow a strong isolate on free materials and make all the psilocybin i could want, especially considering most people are growing mushrooms to obtain psilocybin. Might be that I'm being picky but I would rather produce something out of cheap and easily obtained materials.
Anyway thanks for the links. Been a while since I read them, might be good for me to give em another perusal.
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Leviticus969



Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 939
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preschooler said: http://countyourculture.com/2012/02/17/biosynthesis-4-substituted-tryptamine-derivatives/ linked to me by Coincidentiaoppositorum THis is from "jochen gartz" Experiments conclude that if DET is introduced into a substrate it actually changes the outcome of p cubes to 4 ho det and 4 po det. As you can see the levels vary and seem to be a little high compared to 4 po dmt that's found in cubes.
Ive always thought the potency relied mostly on nutrients consumed by the mycelia. A lot of people get varying results but the substrate itself could be lacking in nutrients from one sub/grow to the next. As you can see from the work of "jochen gartz". Whats in the sub can most defiantly change the outcome, even to a compound that has never been found in nature before.
Just Fyi, substrate does not affect potency. At all. That legendary magical strain I grew was from brown rice flour, vermiculite, and water. Nothing more. nothing less. It was my first grow also. I didnt do anything out of the ordinary.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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6Silent9Knight6 said: To anyone in this thread that has mentioned stretching, being in the right state of mind or setting, or something that has to do with body chemistry... That's your opinion. Not just that but it's your placebo. I stand firm in my beliefs... I have tried different strains. Multiple times of the same strain to be sure if it's all in my head or if the specific strain produces a specific high and 90% of the time, i honestly feel that certain strains give certain highs. Which is also the reason why ppl like growing different strains?????
Set and Setting isn't some bullshit the Shroomery pulled out of it's ass. It's been documented since the 50s when Grof and many others were doing clinical trials on LSD and other psychedelics.
The fact is, set and setting is the most important thing in life, tripping or not. It's your environment and your attitude that determines everything. They work together and aren't separate. Two sides of one coin. It's also the Dharma Seals in a nutshell.
That said, if you go in with the mindset that these shrooms gave me a bad trip last time or these ones rocked my socks, your SET is influencing your trip.
Now please follow Pasty's advice...
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Pastywhyte said: Sounds to me like the OP needs to grow more, eat more, and experience more.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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TravelAgency
The ongoing "wow"

Registered: 12/25/10
Posts: 4,431
Last seen: 11 months, 23 days
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Re: Gauging / Testing Potency [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21905212 - 07/06/15 01:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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KauaiOrca said:
When my system is clean, I am thinking clearly, meditating regularly, exercising a lot, eating well, drinking minimally and, in general, not doing a lot of chemical harm to my body, it takes very low doses to go to the really good places. The condition of my mind and body has MUCH MORE to do with the dosage needed and quality of trip than the quality of the mushroom … Obviously, terrible mushrooms don't count, but I'm assuming most of the people here are growing stuff that's better than terrible.
I always fast for at least a day, generally closer to two before I embark. I've been fasting since 4pm yesterday for my 4pm experience tomorrow. Not only will it hit you harder and faster, but you also take out variables that are unquantifiable. Also it's part of the whole deal for me- call it religious if you want to, but it also sets your mind on the trip you are going to have. Every time you get hungry, you just go "ah, I don't need to eat because tomorrow I'll fly!"
Plus breaking your fast on the comedown is amazing.
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Leviticus969



Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 939
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Set and Setting isn't some bullshit the Shroomery pulled out of it's ass. It's been documented since the 50s when Grof and many others were doing clinical trials on LSD and other psychedelics.
The fact is, set and setting is the most important thing in life, tripping or not. It's your environment and your attitude that determines everything. They work together and aren't separate. Two sides of one coin. It's also the Dharma Seals in a nutshell.
That said, if you go in with the mindset that these shrooms gave me a bad trip last time or these ones rocked my socks, your SET is influencing your trip.
Set and setting is important but it doesn't make your trip good or bad depending on your mind set. What determines most is how the strain is potency wise.
Set and setting is a gimmick the shroomery has passed around and people believed it like the gospel. I don't care how long that info has been passed around... People also believed back then that the world is flat and blacks should be slaves. I've tested it many times and found it to be false on many occasions. You don't know how many times I went into a trip with the perfect mind set, and setting only to be disappointed. I'm not pulling my experiences out of my ass either.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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just when you thought this thread couldn't get any worse...
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Leviticus969



Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 939
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Re: Gauging / Testing Potency [Re: spacechildo]
#21905243 - 07/06/15 01:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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6Silent9Knight6 said: I've tested it many times and found it to be false on many occasions. You don't know how many times I went into a trip with the perfect mind set, and setting only to be disappointed. I'm not pulling my experiences out of my ass either.
Grof administered LSD over a 1,000 times. Leary's numbers are probably similar. I imagine a lot of these tests used LSD from the same batch.
You knock the evidence that they gathered in controlled environments as placebo but can't admit the possibility of your own bias.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Quote:
6Silent9Knight6 said:

my thoughts exactly! with a hint of omg, here we go..
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Leviticus969



Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 939
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
6Silent9Knight6 said: I've tested it many times and found it to be false on many occasions. You don't know how many times I went into a trip with the perfect mind set, and setting only to be disappointed. I'm not pulling my experiences out of my ass either.
Grof administered LSD over a 1,000 times. Leary's numbers are probably similar. I imagine a lot of these tests used LSD from the same batch.
You knock the evidence that they gathered in controlled environments as placebo but can't admit the possibility of your own bias.
I've never tried LSD before so I can't say anything about that but as far as mushrooms... I can vouch for that.
I've also put myself through controlled experiments. MYSELF, not others. I've gone through a shit ton of trips. Enough to the point where I am comfortable and confident in everything I say.
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TravelAgency
The ongoing "wow"

Registered: 12/25/10
Posts: 4,431
Last seen: 11 months, 23 days
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It would only be truly a controlled experiment if you isolated a strain through cloning for a few runs and had administered those whilst angry, happy, sad and indifferent in an isolation chamber, outside, your living room, and at a club/concert.
I consider myself to be a "trusted tripper"- having imbibed well over 100 times- but by no means was it scientific. The only thing I can say is my very best experiences were when we had planned everything out to a T, waited for the weather to be perfect, and was in a good and happy place in my life.
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TravelAgency
The ongoing "wow"

Registered: 12/25/10
Posts: 4,431
Last seen: 11 months, 23 days
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Although one of those times we growing up a solid stem as fat as my fist. Like- I haven't even seen anything on here that comes close to that behemoth. Wish they had thrown the cap in too, bitch would've been dinner plate size most likely
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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I was confident I was Jesus Christ one night.
Anyway I should have known better than to get serious in this thread.
CEVs aren't that rare. OEVs aren't that rare. You didn't mention disassociation at all which signals to me that you have no idea what a strong dose of mushrooms even is. You also mixed up ego death with anxiety. Your observations about nausea are way off (90% of serotonin receptors are in our gut, stronger psychedelics generally cause more nausea).
I think you're gauging nothing but set and setting... and basing your trip off how pretty you think the mushroom is.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Leviticus969



Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 939
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: I was confident I was Jesus Christ one night.
Anyway I should have known better than to get serious in this thread.
CEVs aren't that rare. OEVs aren't that rare. You didn't mention disassociation at all which signals to me that you have no idea what a strong dose of mushrooms even is. You also mixed up ego death with anxiety. Your observations about nausea are way off (90% of serotonin receptors are in our gut, stronger psychedelics generally cause more nausea).
I think you're gauging nothing but set and setting... and basing your trip off how pretty you think the mushroom is. 
Yeah I've had the disassociation ego death trips you've talked about. I went to jail peaking on an eighth. That was filled with anxiety. Melted. Didn't know who I was or where I was at. I didn't think that was worth mentioning but since you wanted to know, here you go.
Perhaps you should tell me what your best CEV's were like and i'll tell you if they are common or rare.
Man you guys I don't mean to come off as a dick, that wasn't my intention. I just came here to share my thoughts and experiences for anyone that might need it. I apologize if I'm sounding a lil to crude in shooting down information shared with me. I want yall to know that I do appreciate it.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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I'm sorry for being a dick too. Set and setting is very well researched. Some of the leading research being done now it still plays a large role in, as much if not more so than dosage. Rick Doblin said in an interview that the FDA is looking to regulate set and setting as part of the clinical usage of these drugs.
http://psychedeliccultures.com/2013/01/19/the-state-of-psychedelic-research-an-interview-with-rick-doblin/
Last week I crushed up the bottom of one of my old stashes and weighed it out. I lemon tekked eight grams and had a 'bad trip'. I basically got interrupted while sorting my shit out.
Yesterday I took the other eight grams from the same bag, lemon tekked it again. I was nervous, I knew I was going to be diving back in where I left off to finish figuring shit out. But this time I had the house to myself so I put together a playlist and took the plunge.
The trip had its ups and downs but as it started to finish up I felt I'd sorted things out.
As far as CEVs, I basically break them up into three 'levels'. Level 1 is 'fractal' space. I can get this off weed too. Level 2 is 'visionary space'. This is more like lucid dreaming but from an almost third person perspective. Level 3 is 'dissociative space'. Hard to explain because it's not even CEV at this point really as touch and other sensations start to mix in. Plus my train of thought and memory are pretty minimal at this level. All three levels exist within a spectrum. Level 1 opens into level 2, level 2 into level 3. There may be more beyond that. That's as deep as I've gone.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Leviticus969



Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 939
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We good man... We good
I'll finish looking at the article later... So far it's an interesting read but I'm at work right now. Toodles
Oh btw...
Quote:
As far as CEVs, I basically break them up into three 'levels'. Level 1 is 'fractal' space. I can get this off weed too. Level 2 is 'visionary space'. This is more like lucid dreaming but from an almost third person perspective. Level 3 is 'dissociative space'. Hard to explain because it's not even CEV at this point really as touch and other sensations start to mix in. Plus my train of thought and memory are pretty minimal at this level. All three levels exist within a spectrum. Level 1 opens into level 2, level 2 into level 3. There may be more beyond that. That's as deep as I've gone.
There are deeper levels... Belee dat. But like I said... It's extremely rare.... But definitely worth the search.
Edited by Leviticus969 (07/06/15 02:50 PM)
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thoraxx
Wizard


Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 580
Loc: Bavaria
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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If you doubt the impact set and setting has on your trip, just look at how much the bathroom effect can impact your trip
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TravelAgency
The ongoing "wow"

Registered: 12/25/10
Posts: 4,431
Last seen: 11 months, 23 days
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Re: Gauging / Testing Potency [Re: thoraxx]
#21905668 - 07/06/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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thoraxx said: If you doubt the impact set and setting has on your trip, just look at how much the bathroom effect can impact your trip
Right! Bathrooms are weird!!!! The only exception is my parents guest bathroom- it has the trippiest wallpaper I've ever seen in my life!
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OPB
Wanderer

Registered: 05/30/15
Posts: 198
Last seen: 2 years, 10 days
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Re: Gauging / Testing Potency [Re: thoraxx]
#21905682 - 07/06/15 03:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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This doesn't seem like it belongs in cultivation.
Back to the topic you could take genetics from bunk shrooms and then select weird physical traits to get "unique" bunk shrooms so clearly it isn't an indicator of potency.
-------------------- "Wasn't that fun"
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