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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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AGAR questions
    #21896047 - 07/04/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

hey all, i am looking to get into agar, because im starting a couple monotubs and using grains(duh) and would like a clean inoculant, instead of a MS syringe. 

Now, there are many different ways to make agar paste as ive read on here, but its tricky to get the mixture just right.  Basically there are a couple different mixtures that are common(majority of people use) PDA being one of them.

I was wondering if it would be better to buy the ingrediants separately and make my own agar mixture, or to just buy the pre mixed agar paste-powder(PDA mixture for instance) and just use that.  What is your opinions on that?  I know it would be better to learn how to mix them together, and probably cheaper.  at a quick glance, it was 16.50 for an 8-oz PDA bottle.  Now, it says that could make up to 100 petris, but im wondering how many that could REALISTICLY make.

Also, what agar recipie would be good to start with, as well as relatively cheap?  Please include brands of products(agar powder, dextrose and such)

The last thing, i saw that they have tri separated petri dishes, with 3 sections for growing cultures.  Would you recommend to use these instead of the regular petris? If so, why?


Thanks for the input guys its very much appreciated!


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21896066 - 07/04/15 09:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Buy agar flakes at grocery store.Asian store. Telephone brand is easy to find or order online.


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21896141 - 07/04/15 10:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Agar is easy to make. For PDA you just need some instant potato flakes, honey or karo, and agar agar powder.



Check out Pastywhyte's Easy Agar Tek

There's lots of ways to do agar. I only order non-sectioned petris for pouring.

MEA is easy to prep as well using this (pic below) and agar.



Here's a bunch of cool videos w/ agar prep.


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: Grey]
    #21896180 - 07/04/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:whathesaid: :rockon:
Check out the 3 and 4th link in my signature too. And look up stro's cleaning and isolating on agar


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OfflineOPB
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21896213 - 07/04/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I opted for the premixed powder. The agar agar I found locally was very expensive and looking online the prices for each ingredient add up close to the cost of the mix. I'm sure in large quantities it's more efficient to mix it yourself though.


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21896221 - 07/04/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I made this 2 days ago on sterile techniques. Still needs some work, but it's nonetheless a damn good place to start.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21889950

All the other stuff suggested too. Idk how you wouldn't be good at agar after all this lol


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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: Grey]
    #21896860 - 07/04/15 02:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I think im going to go with MEA, and thanks for all the vids and responses, helped me bunches and made me decide i am going to make the jump to agar.  Although i haven't had any contams yet, i want to keep it that way.

The only thing i need to work on is being able to identify bacteria in the culture as right now i have no idea how yall do it, unless its REALLY apparent


EDIT: can you use dark MALT extract as well?


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Edited by firstTIMER420 (07/04/15 02:06 PM)


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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21896882 - 07/04/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

and also, as far as MEA, will 1LB be fine for say 20 plates?


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21896889 - 07/04/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Dark malt will work. Also in the thread I sent, really close to the beginning, you'll see a section called what to look out for. It has a link to this:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21865514

For 20 plates, more like 20 grams.


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How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: Mad Season]
    #21896899 - 07/04/15 02:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

i was going to purchase the 3lb bag, but ill go with the 1LB.


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21896907 - 07/04/15 02:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The MEA will stretch, you don't need much. Just keep the extract powder dry. It can clump up in humid air.


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21896937 - 07/04/15 02:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

That's a good pick. I started out with MEA because that gave me the option to also use the ME to make LC. I've also made PDA with potato broth + dextrose. As well as a few experiments with water used to boil wood chips and shit like that. MEA is very reliable. It's good to switch up the mix every once in a while.


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: Juiceh]
    #21897105 - 07/04/15 03:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

anything used in agar can be used in a lc recipe too and vice versa.

the best lc recipes has 2% agar in them! :eek:


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: spacechildo]
    #21897556 - 07/04/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
anything used in agar can be used in a lc recipe too and vice versa.




:mindblown:

I been doing alot of GWLC lately. Kinda pointless to do anything else when so much grain water is available after making a few batches of grain. Making fucktons of Morel LC to dump around my property and families properties. Got a few gallons of LC going right now! :grin:


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Edited by Juiceh (07/04/15 05:01 PM)


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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: Juiceh]
    #21903099 - 07/05/15 10:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

might as well start making LC then lol,

grain water is whats left over after boiling the grains right.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21903153 - 07/05/15 10:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

What are you going to make lcs with? Think of lc as a g2g replacement and agar as an inoculation replacement. Every project has to start with agar so you should inoculate an lc with a clean agar wedge.


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: Mad Season]
    #21903191 - 07/05/15 10:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

idk tbh i haven't even looked up LC's at all.  Agar is an universal inoculant and i guess if you used it to innoc LC like you said, all it would take for grains is a couple of drops in each jar of grain to innoc it.  Hmmm, i gotta look more into it, but my problem with this stuff and LC's is knowing how to distinguish contaminates from the mycelium. Guess i just have to take the plunge and start going at it.


any LC teks or good reads yall recommend?


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21903207 - 07/05/15 10:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I just use 2g LME every 100 ml of water for lcs. Best way to test an lc is to drop it on a few plates of agar. If they all are colonized clean, you have VERY high chance the lc is clean. That's why I always say lc and agar goes hand in hand. You need agar to both inoculate and test its cleanliness.


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Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21903229 - 07/05/15 10:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Start with agar. It's the way to learn how to identify contams, understand what culture should look like and teaches sterile techniques. LC is what you do after you master agar.


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21903244 - 07/05/15 10:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:whathesaid::bow2:


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How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: Mad Season]
    #21903261 - 07/05/15 10:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:ohyou:


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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21903478 - 07/05/15 11:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

i am purchasing the agar and the ME now, as well as the pre-mixed PDA powder.  The last thing im wondering is if petris can be re sterilized? cause 25 petris for 14bucks is bullshit.  and will that be enough to start a couple monotub grows?


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21903493 - 07/05/15 11:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Buy in bulk or use pasty plates in pastys signature.


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How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21904350 - 07/06/15 07:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

firstTIMER420 said:
might as well start making LC then lol,

grain water is whats left over after boiling the grains right.



I wasn't saying do LC rather than Agar. I was saying that since I have so much grain water available it doesn't make sense to make LC out of anything else anymore, when I need LC.

Sorry for the confusion and  :derail:

Disposable plastic petris cannot be resterilized, they will melt in the PC. Buy a case of 500 online.


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Edited by Juiceh (07/06/15 07:43 AM)


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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: Juiceh]
    #21904658 - 07/06/15 09:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

yup, I was going to buy a bigger pack, but don't have the funds right now considering all the mono\ey I recently spent.  I will give pasty plates a try when I run out of petris, I bought 50 petris though so I think that should last a little while.


So basically, lets say I want to do my monotub grow using agar.  im going to have 12 jars of grain spawn.  I would make the agar mixture, and inoculate each plate with 4 drops of MS solution, like a square so there are multiple points of growth. after a couple days I should se growth and transfer to another agar plate. 

-about how long does it take for a plate to grow out to where I can transfer it for the first time.

-how many times do you want to transfer to a clean plate, and when/how do you know what part and why to transfer?

-how long on average will the transfer take to completely colonize the new plate, so that I can use it to transfer to my grain jars?

just trying to be prepared when I start doing it, so I don't make it up as I go along.

PS. Im getting the AA 921, saying fuckit and going for it!!!(already bought the presto though:/) 
How do you guys that have the AA921 like it? how does it compare to other brands as far as ease of use, size, and safety?

THANKS GUISE


Edited by firstTIMER420 (07/06/15 09:28 AM)


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21904682 - 07/06/15 09:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

firstTIMER420 said:
-about how long does it take for a plate to grow out to where I can transfer it for the first time.

why do you ask? you'll find out when you get there!

-how many times do you want to transfer to a clean plate, and when/how do you know what part and why to transfer?

Until the growth is clean.

-how long on average will the transfer take to completely colonize the new plate, so that I can use it to transfer to my grain jars?

again, you'll find out when you get there. temp, genetics, nutrients all matter.





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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: spacechildo]
    #21904696 - 07/06/15 09:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

the reason I ask is because I was reading that you don't want to let ertain plates grow too long, and some you do.  I was just wondering when to be expecting the time I need to transfer, I feel like that is kind of important info.


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: spacechildo]
    #21904701 - 07/06/15 09:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

what kinda stuff are you reading? or are you talking about stored petris vs no pours?
for agar transfers just take a tiny piece as you said, for agar to grain transfers just take a decent sized wedge. inch long or so :shrug:


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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: spacechildo]
    #21904833 - 07/06/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I forget where I read it but I think it was on a no pour thread.


The LME and the AGAR should be here tomorrow, then ill start going to work, I hope to start my grain jars soon, just looking up the best methods to prepare grains.

can you save the grain water in the fridge or something? I wsa thinking about saving it and using it to make some agar with GW, I forget the abbreviation.


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21904848 - 07/06/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

gw agar.. you can save the gw in the freezer. but you dont wanna prep your grains before you have something clean on a plate.
but you can make gw by just boiling half a cup of grains.. why not just do MEA for now and try gw next run`when you have gw?

no pour are easy and can grow as far as you want.
if you store a petri dish cold you want the edges uncolonized so you can see any contams that maybe got in through the edges.


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: spacechildo]
    #21907365 - 07/06/15 09:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

yea I have to look up the no pour MEA agar thing.  I also have the pre mixed PDA, can I just mix the water in the PDA and pour it in the dish?


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21907748 - 07/06/15 11:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You guys are awesome. I love all of you.
:mindblown:

Can't help but get all jittery and excited over new info. I'll be starting agar on Friday when I get paid- if I don't have any fruits by then I'll just clone some oysters :smile:


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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: TravelAgency]
    #21908823 - 07/07/15 09:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

sweet man, I just got paid that's why I ordered my shit, cant wait for it to get here, should be tomorrow, and im going to post a pic of it all just to make sure I got the right stuff.

Before you order your stuff, can you post what your going to get here? im curious to see what your going to choose, and see if its close to what I ordered.

We love you too(I hope I was included in that, otherwise, this is gonna be awkward.. ) :heart: :excited:


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21909889 - 07/07/15 02:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Pasty plates are awesome too. Easy as fuck to make, cheap, PP5 containers can be reused over & over & over again. Next to impossible to mess up. They work so well I haven't even done a pour method as of yet....:shrug:

Here is a BAN HUA culture that I had stuck in a cupboard after it didn't initially take off. I may transfer to a bunch of other plates or take a chance and slice & dice it to some grain jars...



It's hard to see but it has obviously grown all the way out (not ideal)... but since it is snow white I may just noc some jars with it...

edit: ended up doing 6 transfers to clean then up....


Edited by FreeWorldOrder (07/07/15 07:45 PM)


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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21910201 - 07/07/15 03:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

firstTIMER420 said:
sweet man, I just got paid that's why I ordered my shit, cant wait for it to get here, should be tomorrow, and im going to post a pic of it all just to make sure I got the right stuff.

Before you order your stuff, can you post what your going to get here? im curious to see what your going to choose, and see if its close to what I ordered.

We love you too(I hope I was included in that, otherwise, this is gonna be awkward.. ) :heart: :excited:




My molecular biologist friend hooked me up with 6 petris, 2 tweezers, a scalpel with 2 blades, and a thermometer (for pasteurizing). Then I'll be following PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek. So agar agar, potato flakes, karo- all of which I can get at local stores. And since I'll be visiting the Asian market, I'll pick up some King oysters, enoki, shiitake, maybe a couple other varieties just for the fun of it to clone them and start my edibles journey as well. I have many vegan friends (and cook A LOT) so they will be stoked.

And of course you were included in that!  :hug:


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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: TravelAgency]
    #21911198 - 07/07/15 07:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

firstTIMER420 said:
PS. Im getting the AA 921, saying fuckit and going for it!!!(already bought the presto though:/) 
How do you guys that have the AA921 like it? how does it compare to other brands as far as ease of use, size, and safety?




The AA921 is an awesome PC. I have an AA921 and an AA930. You will love it. Grab yourself a stick of plain ole chapstick. Use that to run around the rim where the lid meets the base every other run(or every run, sometimes I forget). Simple and less mess than using vasoline or cooking oil.


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How I make 15 lbs of casing in a 941. How I line 12 shoeboxes with 1 39gal bag. How I Deep Fry Cubes!
RogerRabbit said:You need a bigger pressure cooker for this hobby. RR


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: Juiceh]
    #21912016 - 07/07/15 09:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

hey travel what are the tweezers for?

and im freakin stoked, it looks badass, and im guessing its even better to use.  I might get the 30qt one, looks too big though, and from what people have said they can be quite big.


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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21912193 - 07/07/15 10:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

firstTIMER420 said:
I might get the 30qt one, looks too big though



Too big for what? Can't fit it on your cooktop? The 930 is just taller than the 921 by a few inches, same width. The 930 is as tall as AA pcs get. The 941 is the same height, but wider.
Here are mine running side by side at 20psi:


The 930 can be pretty heavy when its really loaded up to the max.


--------------------
Trade List

How I make 15 lbs of casing in a 941. How I line 12 shoeboxes with 1 39gal bag. How I Deep Fry Cubes!
RogerRabbit said:You need a bigger pressure cooker for this hobby. RR


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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21915496 - 07/08/15 03:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The tweezers are just to make the transfer without the stab and drag with a scalpel. They too will be sterilized of course


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Indoor Greenhouse Build 
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OfflinefirstTIMER420
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Re: AGAR questions [Re: Juiceh]
    #21916997 - 07/08/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Juiceh said:
Quote:

firstTIMER420 said:
I might get the 30qt one, looks too big though



Too big for what? Can't fit it on your cooktop? The 930 is just taller than the 921 by a few inches, same width. The 930 is as tall as AA pcs get. The 941 is the same height, but wider.
Here are mine running side by side at 20psi:


The 930 can be pretty heavy when its really loaded up to the max.





:fappage:


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Re: AGAR questions [Re: firstTIMER420]
    #21972748 - 07/20/15 08:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

quick question, the out-grow PDA powder I got says to PC at 10PSI for 45 minutes, but in RR's vids he says 15PSI. I was wondering if anyone has used their mix before and what they PC'd it at. I am going to finally make my agar tomorrow and want to get it right. Also, it might be kinda hard to get my PC to stay at 10PSI


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