Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore Cultivation Supplies   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]
Invisiblemicro
bunbun has a gungun
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City Flag
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: Physical Entropy]
    #23233443 - 05/16/16 12:23 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Physical Entropy said:
I need a recipe for extracting cyanogenic glycoside from apple seeds or bitter almonds or elderberries. I do better with knowing what to buy when it comes to brands containing chemical compounds for extraction rather than exact chemical compound formulas. Example given NaCl table salt... the best concentration of this compound is sold under the brand name...




You would be extracting them from plant material. I don't think there there is a brand for these since they aren't very commercially useful.

Are you trying to keep the whole

You wouldn't want to use very harsh reagents that could hydrolyze the nitrile (CN) or deesterify to mandelin and the sugar acid.

For Mandelin:

Quote:

Hydrolysis was a first-order reaction with respect to dhurrin and hydroxyl ion concentrations. Half lives ranged from 1.2h (pH 8.6; 25 degrees C) to 530d (pH 4; 25 degrees C). The activation energy of hydrolysis was 112+9kJ. At pH 5.8 and room temperature, addition of humic acids (50gl(-1)) increased the rate of hydrolysis tenfold, while addition of kaolinite or goethite (100-250gl(-1)) both decreased the rate considerably.




http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17126881

Quote:

Physical Entropy said:
In return I give you Syntheses production for "Chlorine trifluoride" and a link to buy chemicals for sythinsation process....




I'm actually interested if this is at a clandestine level.

HF would probably be a bitch to work with, though not very hard to make from i.e. NaF >.<


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechemist777
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 67
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: micro]
    #23306789 - 06/04/16 11:22 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

1. Structure of the benzene molecule on the basis of the three-electron bond.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechemist777
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 67
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #23306790 - 06/04/16 11:22 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

2. Experimental confirmation of the existence of the three-electron bond and theoretical basis ot its existence.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechemist777
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 67
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #23306792 - 06/04/16 11:23 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

3. A short analysis of chemical bonds.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechemist777
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 67
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #23306795 - 06/04/16 11:24 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

4. Supplement to the theoretical justification of existence of the three-electron bond.



5. Theory of three-electrone bond in the four works
with brief comments.
  http://vixra.org/pdf/1607.0022v1.pdf


Edited by chemist777 (08/21/16 03:42 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemicro
bunbun has a gungun
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City Flag
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777] * 1
    #23306924 - 06/04/16 12:13 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Hey, OP -

Are you related to this guy?



--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechemist777
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 67
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: micro]
    #23349742 - 06/16/16 04:02 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

Author of three-electron bond theory formulated the definition of multiplicity:

"The multiplicity of  bond is the energy of  bond expressed in dimensionless units".


REVIEW. Benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond (full version, 93 p.).
http://vixra.org/pdf/1612.0018v5.pdf


Also posted new links to all 5 works:

1. Structure of the benzene molecule on the basis of the three-electron bond.
  http://vixra.org/pdf/1606.0152v1.pdf

2. Experimental confirmation of the existence of the three-electron bond and theoretical basis ot its existence.
  http://vixra.org/pdf/1606.0151v2.pdf

3. A short analysis of chemical bonds.
  http://vixra.org/pdf/1606.0149v2.pdf
 
4. Supplement to the theoretical justification of existence of the three-electron bond.
  http://vixra.org/pdf/1606.0150v2.pdf

5. Theory of three-electrone bond in the four works with brief comments.
    http://vixra.org/pdf/1607.0022v2.pdf


Edited by chemist777 (05/25/17 02:25 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechemist777
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 67
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #23379841 - 06/25/16 06:22 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)


This graphic represents a slice of the spider-web-like structure of the universe, called the "cosmic web." These great filaments are made largely of dark matter located in the space between galaxies. Credit: NASA, ESA, and E. Hallman (University of Colorado, Boulder).


How the solar system looks from Sedna. As seen from Sedna, the Sun would form somewhat of an isosceles triangle with Spica to the lower right and Antares to the lower left.  NASA, ESA and Adolf Schaller - Hubble Observes Planetoid Sedna.


Benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond.  http://vixra.org/pdf/1606.0152v1.pdf



What about the new model of the Universe interfering? Not bad?
And as a logical and beautiful microcosm with the macrocosm united.

Model of the Interfering Universe:

"Now, let's try to explain the possibility of interaction of electrons and other particles, which are in an entangled quantum state, what presupposes the existence of any distance between them, for example, 1 m, or 1000 km, it is not essential, the distance can be arbitrarily long. And this distance does not affect the entangled quantum system, the particles of which miraculously know the characteristics of each other. To do this we'll have to simulate our Universe. So, let's imagine our infinite Universe as a finite (for convenience of description) object, such as an ordinary cube. Now let's imagine this cube empty of matter, space-time, and in general of any fields and other characteristics, there is no matter, and, in principle, anything. Now, let's "insert" an electron in the cube, and at once in the Universe there will appear space-time, weight, variety of fields (gravitational, electromagnetic, and so on), energy and other characteristics. After the electron appeared in the Universe, it came to life, and was born in principle. And now let's specify that the electron is not simply located in the Universe and has specific location and spot size, and its fields (electromagnetic, gravitational, and other existing and unknown) occupy and fill the whole Universe, the entire space-time continuum, our whole infinite Universe. Now let's step by step fill our cube (our Universe) with all elementary particles that exist in the Universe. And there is one condition that must be followed: each elementary particle occupies entirely and completely the whole Universe by its fields, energy and other characteristics, that is each particle completely fills (literally) all the infinite Universe, but at the same time it has certain coordinates (the most probable place of elementary particle detection).

With this description, our Universe, which is infinite in all senses (spatial, energy, time, etc.), will represent a giant interference of any and all elementary particles, a model of the "Interfering Universe". And now the main thing: since each elementary particle occupies (fills) the whole Universe (and at the same time is in a particular place with certain coordinates (its most probabilistic definition in this point, or more precisely in this region of space)), then there is nothing unusual in the fact that when forming an entangled quantum state each elementary particle "knows" the characteristics of its partner in a quantum state. Elementary particles "know" everything about all the other elementary particles since they fill the same Universe (it is their common home). They (elementary particles) constantly interact, interfere, but depending on their characteristics and the characteristics of their partners (coordinates, mass, energy, field, distances between the peak densities of detection, wave characteristics, etc.) form stable bonds (most varied and not only energy) only with certain partner particles.

Based on the foregoing, we can conclude that our Universe, our world more precisely, is an interference pattern of each and every particle in the Universe. Now the wave-particle duality of particles, probabilistic interpretation of quantum mechanical phenomena and other quantum effects of the microcosm become intuitively clear. For example, why there is a non-zero probability of finding an electron, which rotates in a specific hydrogen atom (which is in a particular laboratory), for example, on the Moon. And it is both on the Moon and on the Sun, as well as anywhere in the space of our Universe; it really fills (takes) the whole Universe. But its presence in a particular area, "the density of presence", so to speak (probability of detection), is different at different points of the space.

In the interfering Universe, all elementary particles "know everything" about all the other elementary particles (since they are in the same Universe), but not all of them are suitable for all in terms of formation of various bonds (in energy and other senses). Therefore, only those particles interact, which have a well-defined set of characteristics for each other and for specific types of interactions. And our world forms as a result of such interactions."

    p.5-6    Supplement to the theoretical justification of existence of the three-electron bond.
  http://vixra.org/pdf/1606.0150v1.pdf


P.S.
I note that the three-electron bond to describe the benzene molecule used even W.O. Kermak, R. Robinson and J. J. Thomson at the beginning of the 20th century. Here are links to their works:
1. Thomson, J. J. Philosophical Magazine, 1921, 41, 510-538.
2. W.O. Kermak and R. Robinson, J. Chem. Soc. 427 (1922).
But since it is not taken into account the spin of electrons, we have already started cyclooctatetraene problems and therefore the description of the benzene molecule by a three-electron proved unsuccessful.
Using the three-electron bond with multiplicity of 1.5 and take account of the spin of each electron leads to very good results in the description of the benzene molecule and explain the aromaticity in general. With the help of three-electron bond with multiplicity of 1.5 can be represented by a real formula of many organic and inorganic molecules without the aid of virtual structures.

Theory of three-electron bond is constantly evolving and is used in organic and inorganic chemistry. Below I give links to some work of scientists who have made an invaluable contribution to the development of application and understanding of the three-electron bond:
1. J.W. Linnett (a) J. Amer. Chem. Soc. 83, 2643 (1961). (B) The Electronic Structures of-Molecules, (Methuen, London, 1964). (C) Science Progress (Oxford) 60, 1 (1972).
2. Linus Pauling. The Nature of the Chemical Bond and the Structure of Molecules and Crystals: An Introduction to Modern Structural Chemistry 3rd Edition. Copyright 1939 and 1940, third edition. 1960 by Cornell University.
3. R. D. Harcourt. Qualitative Valence-Bond Descriptions of Electron-Rich Molecules: Pauling "3-Electron Bonds" and "Increased-Valence" Theory. Springer-Verlag Berlin Heidelberg New York 1982.
4. Pauling's Legacy. Modern Modelling of the Chemical Bond. Edited by Z. B. Maksic. ELSEVIER 1999.

Benzene molecule with three-electron bond. W.O. Kermak and R. Robinson, J. J. Thomson.



Edited by chemist777 (09/04/16 01:57 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechemist777
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 67
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #23696192 - 10/01/16 02:40 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

L(c-c) benzene = 1.40 Å,    L(B-N) borazine = 1.44 Å.

L1 ≈ L2.    Nice.

Aromatic bond is fundamental basis of organic chemistry. Concept of three-electron bond in benzene (and borasine) molecule enable to explain specificity of aromatic bond.

http://vixra.org/author/bezverkhniy_volodymyr_dmytrovych




https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=724363291038383&set=a.316722738469109.1073741851.100003941561509&type=3


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechemist777
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 67
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #23938565 - 12/18/16 04:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)
Log in to view attachment


REVIEW. Benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond (full version, 93 p.).
http://vixra.org/pdf/1612.0018v5.pdf

http://vixra.org/author/bezverkhniy_volodymyr_dmytrovych





Edited by chemist777 (01/09/17 08:25 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechemist777
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 67
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #24441309 - 06/28/17 03:08 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

The reason of the formation of the chemical bond.

The reason for the formation of the chemical bond is still not clear, in fact, there is no physical justification, as it was at the time of Bohr, since the formation of a chemical bond does not follow from the four fundamental interactions. Just imagine, a chemical bond "does not understand" that it can not be explained normally and quietly exists :smile:. A full explanation of the chemical bond can only be provided by quantum mechanics (in the future), classical approaches simply do not work.

To understand this, it is necessary not to forget what L. Pauling did (L. Pauling, "The nature of the chemical bond", and the work of L. Pauling: Chem. Rev. 5, 173 (1928)), namely Pauling analyzed the interaction of the hydrogen atom and the proton in the entire range of lengths (he admitted that the hydrogen atom and H + on the approach are preserved and showed that the bond is not formed in this case (since there is no exchange interaction or resonance by Pauling)).

Only one of the above-mentioned facts actually destroys the classical approach (attraction and repulsion by Coulomb) to explaining the chemical bond. There inevitably follows that the chemical bond is a quantum-mechanical effect and no other.

Imagine a system with two protons and one electron, but if it is treated as a hydrogen atom and a proton, then the bond can not form over the whole range of lengths. But, as Burrau showed, the bond in H2 + is formed (if we consider the system as two protons and one electron), and no one particularly doubts this, since H2 + exists. I particularly emphasize that there is only one electron (there is no inter-electronic repulsion, etc.).

After this fact, further discussions can not be continued, they do not make sense (especially to apply this to the explanation of two-electron bond or aromatic, this is a slightly different level of complexity). But nevertheless, it should be noted that quantum mechanics introduced the concept of "exchange interaction", which had no physical justification (since no fundamental interactions are altered in the interchange of electrons, but should, if a bond is formed) explained the chemical bond (more accurately, "disguised" chemical bond into the quantum-mechanical effect of the "exchange interaction"), by this, confirming that the chemical bond is indeed a quantum-mechanical effect.

The science of chemical bonding is only at the beginning of it's journey, and it is for today's students to make the most significant contribution to the theory of chemical bonding. And this will lead to fundamental changes in understanding both chemistry and physics.

On the basis of modern concepts of quantum mechanics, chemical bonding can not be explained, fundamental assumptions are needed in quantum mechanics itself ...

On the photo page from the work of L. Pauling "The application of the quantum mechanics to the structure of the Hydrogen molecule and Hydrogen molecule-ion and to related problems" Chem. Rev. 5, No. 2, p. 193, June (1928).

Benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond:

REVIEW. Benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond (full version, 93 p.).
http://vixra.org/pdf/1612.0018v5.pdf

1. Structure of the benzene molecule on the basis of the three-electron bond.
http://vixra.org/pdf/1606.0152v1.pdf

2. Experimental confirmation of the existence of the three-electron bond and theoretical basis ot its existence.
http://vixra.org/pdf/1606.0151v2.pdf

3. A short analysis of chemical bonds.
http://vixra.org/pdf/1606.0149v2.pdf

4. Supplement to the theoretical justification of existence of the three-electron bond.
http://vixra.org/pdf/1606.0150v2.pdf

5. Theory of three-electrone bond in the four works with brief comments.
http://vixra.org/pdf/1607.0022v2.pdf

6. REVIEW. Benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond (full version, 93 p.).
http://vixra.org/pdf/1612.0018v5.pdf

7. Quantum-mechanical aspects of the L. Pauling's resonance theory.
http://vixra.org/pdf/1702.0333v2.pdf

8. Quantum-mechanical analysis of the MO method and VB method from the position of PQS.
http://vixra.org/pdf/1704.0068v1.pdf

Bezverkhniy Volodymyr (viXra): http://vixra.org/author/bezverkhniy_volodymyr_dmytrovych




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThebooedocksaint
Stranger


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 281
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #24481860 - 07/14/17 12:51 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Did you just post an article to support your thoughts with some physics journal article talking about quantum mechanics from the 1920's?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechemist777
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 67
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #24483135 - 07/14/17 03:33 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Thebooedocksaint said:
Did you just post an article to support your thoughts with some physics journal article talking about quantum mechanics from the 1920's?




 
  Do you think that we know more about chemical bond than chemists knew in the 1920s?

  The reason for the formation of a chemical bond is not derived from the four fundamental interactions. Chemists actually postulate chemical bond (already 100 years).

  Note that even now, just like 100 years ago, a physicists can not strictly explain what a chemical bond is and why it exists. Fundamentally in understanding for 100 years nothing has changed - the two-electron bond "at the tip of the pen" as it could not be deduced then and now.


Edited by chemist777 (07/14/17 03:42 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThebooedocksaint
Stranger


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 281
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #24501920 - 07/23/17 12:19 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

chemist777 said:
Quote:

Thebooedocksaint said:
Did you just post an article to support your thoughts with some physics journal article talking about quantum mechanics from the 1920's?




 
  Do you think that we know more about chemical bond than chemists knew in the 1920s?



Yes.
or, more precisely. We understand more, at least over all in the physical sciences since all us had to learn this stuff in undergrad.



Quote:

The reason for the formation of a chemical bond is not derived from the four fundamental interactions. Chemists actually postulate chemical bond (already 100 years).




..derived from? I'm not sure what that would mean.
But they are definitely explained with them and quantum mechanics. That was definitely stuff we talked about in physical/organic/inorganic chem, and in my quantum mechanics course.



Quote:

Note that even now, just like 100 years ago, a physicists can not strictly explain what a chemical bond is and why it exists. Fundamentally in understanding for 100 years nothing has changed - the two-electron bond "at the tip of the pen" as it could not be deduced then and now.




What do you mean, "can't explain what it is"? It doesn't have some metaphysical meaning. It just is, like most things. There is no meaning to it, it is just an interaction of subatomic molecules we observe due to the way physics works as far as we know. It's never going to be anything other than that. This thread makes the chemist in me cringe.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechemist777
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 67
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #24502124 - 07/23/17 04:57 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


Yes.
or, more precisely. We understand more, at least over all in the physical sciences since all us had to learn this stuff in undergrad.


..derived from? I'm not sure what that would mean.
But they are definitely explained with them and quantum mechanics. That was definitely stuff we talked about in physical/organic/inorganic chem, and in my quantum mechanics course.


What do you mean, "can't explain what it is"? It doesn't have some metaphysical meaning. It just is, like most things. There is no meaning to it, it is just an interaction of subatomic molecules we observe due to the way physics works as far as we know. It's never going to be anything other than that. This thread makes the chemist in me cringe.




I can not say about quantum mechanics in general, but I can say about the chemical bond accurately, after a certain time we will know and understand much more about the chemical bond. Quantum mechanics uses the "exchange interaction" to explain the chemical bond, it certainly exists, but there is no physical justification.
And one more important fact: when forming a chemical bond, the "electron concentration" (the electron distribution function) occurs between the nuclei, where the concentration region (volume) is much less when compared with atoms (Pauling for H2+ gives a value 6 times smaller than for the atom, to many-electrons bonds this value is also smaller). BUT, we know quite accurately that the Coulomb repulsion exactly works at these distances, and how then can the formation of the chemical bond be explained, in other words, what can "block" the repulsive energy between the electrons. The attraction to the nuclei does not pass, since 1/r^2 "guarantees" always greater repulsion between the coupling electrons than the attraction of the electrons of bond to the nuclei. As we see, there is still no physical justification for the formation of a chemical bond. I did not mention the fact the MO theory contradicts the principle of quantum superposition, that is, from AO linear combination can not be obtained MO. A deeper understanding of the nature of the chemical bond should clearly show why from AO linear combination can not be obtained MO, and why the MO is a "different quality".

Still, I disagree with you, the understanding of the chemical bond will definitely be different.


Edited by chemist777 (07/23/17 05:09 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThebooedocksaint
Stranger


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 281
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #24503764 - 07/23/17 08:21 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

chemist777 said:


I can not say about quantum mechanics in general, but I can say about the chemical bond accurately, after a certain time we will know and understand much more about the chemical bond. Quantum mechanics uses the "exchange interaction" to explain the chemical bond, it certainly exists, but there is no physical justification.
And one more important fact: when forming a chemical bond, the "electron concentration" (the electron distribution function) occurs between the nuclei, where the concentration region (volume) is much less when compared with atoms (Pauling for H2+ gives a value 6 times smaller than for the atom, to many-electrons bonds this value is also smaller). BUT, we know quite accurately that the Coulomb repulsion exactly works at these distances, and how then can the formation of the chemical bond be explained, in other words, what can "block" the repulsive energy between the electrons. The attraction to the nuclei does not pass, since 1/r^2 "guarantees" always greater repulsion between the coupling electrons than the attraction of the electrons of bond to the nuclei.




But once we are talking about quantum mechanics, we are talking about Shrodinger EQ functions. So we are talking about probabilities/densities of electrons. You don't try to find the electron, you merely realize that effectively the electrons are and aren't at any point in their orbitals. Since we are dealing with density not all volume is of equal value. These electrons in the bonds aren't in regions of extremely high electron density. These are the valence electrons bonding, The large point charges from two positive sources, somewhat screened by the inner electron density, are able to counter balance. Remember these electron densities are 3 dimensional shapes, so the half of the density of the inner electrons (and other, non bonding, valence electrons) will be further away from these electrons than either nucleus.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechemist777
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 67
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #24504886 - 07/24/17 12:03 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:



But once we are talking about quantum mechanics, we are talking about Shrodinger EQ functions. So we are talking about probabilities/densities of electrons. You don't try to find the electron, you merely realize that effectively the electrons are and aren't at any point in their orbitals. Since we are dealing with density not all volume is of equal value. These electrons in the bonds aren't in regions of extremely high electron density. These are the valence electrons bonding, The large point charges from two positive sources, somewhat screened by the inner electron density, are able to counter balance. Remember these electron densities are 3 dimensional shapes, so the half of the density of the inner electrons (and other, non bonding, valence electrons) will be further away from these electrons than either nucleus.





You described the classics cited in the textbooks on quantum chemistry, it is also necessary to clarify that the electrons move (if one can so express) from each other at maximum distances (clearly, in order to minimize repulsion). But what the sense then in the interaction of two valence electrons? Really? In order to "dance" with each other at the most distant distances? In addition, this description (attraction - repulsion) should be solved "at the tip of the pen," for example, for such a simple system as a hydrogen molecule: two protons, between which move, repelled between themselves, two electrons, and are attracted to protons. But such a solution does not exist and can not exist, since the chemical bond is a quantum-mechanical effect and not the "work" of the forces of the Coulomb. Therefore, such a description will never have an analytically exact solution. This can be compared to the Rutherford atom when Bohr "came" and said that I "forbid" (or rather, I pustulate that it not exist) electromagnetic radiation when the electron moves around the nucleus, and take it as a fact. Similarly, here too: any attempt to explain the chemical bond by the simple mechanics of the motions of electrons and nuclei will be unsuccessful, it must be accepted as a fact that the chemical bond is not the motion of electrons in our usual sense of "somewhere" between the nuclei but something more that we call the quantum-mechanical effect or in other words the exchange interaction, or the Pauling resonance of two electrons.


Edited by chemist777 (07/24/17 12:22 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThebooedocksaint
Stranger


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 281
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #24505411 - 07/24/17 04:59 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

chemist777 said:

You described the classics cited in the textbooks on quantum chemistry, it is also necessary to clarify that the electrons move (if one can so express) from each other at maximum distances (clearly, in order to minimize repulsion).



Yea, their like charges repel (just like the like charges of the nuclei repel). But they are not affixed next to each other. The electrons aren't restricted next to one another within the bond (that would be silly), they are moving. They're not required to be at maximum distance from each other, if they were they would have the nuclei between each of them because their orbitals still include the far sides of these atoms.

Quote:

But what the sense then in the interaction of two valence electrons? Really? In order to "dance" with each other at the most distant distances?



Poor grammar like this will make all such debate, just like all of this thead, impossible to understand what you're really talking about.

Quote:

In addition, this description (attraction - repulsion) should be solved "at the tip of the pen," for example, for such a simple system as a hydrogen molecule: two protons, between around which move, repelled between themselves by eachother, two electrons, and are attracted to theprotons.





But such a solution does not exist and can not exist,

Quote:

since the chemical bond is a quantum-mechanical effect and not the "work" of the forces of the Coulomb.



False. They are the work of forces. This presumption of yours is literally hilarious.


Quote:

This can be compared to the Rutherford atom when Bohr "came" and said that I "forbid" (or rather, I pustulate that it not exist) electromagnetic radiation when the electron moves around the nucleus, and take it as a fact.



What? The reason that electromagnetic radiation from the electron can't be emitted, it is because if it did electrons would fall in on their nuclei due to their loss of energy.

Quote:

Similarly, here too: any attempt to explain the chemical bond by the simple mechanics of the motions of electrons and nuclei will be unsuccessful, it must be accepted as a fact that the chemical bond is not the motion of electrons in our usual sense of "somewhere" between the nuclei but something more that we call the quantum-mechanical effect or in other words the exchange interaction, or the Pauling resonance of two electrons.



I never claimed that the chemical bond "was" the motion of electrons.

I merely said that the chemical bond was the result of these things. The bond is due to the overlapping of these electron clouds/densities. For the H2 example it's the result of the spherical orbitals inside edges overlapping, so that when looking at the charge densities, and the interactions observed: The + + repulsion, the + - attraction, and the - - repulsion. These electrons overlap to the point that they are at some level of equilibrium. It's obvious that this MUST exist, because before they overlap their will only be coulomb repulsion. The same is true if the nuclei got much closer to one another (but due to the repulsion of very large + charges right next to each other.



Have a nice day.


Edited by Thebooedocksaint (07/24/17 05:37 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechemist777
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 67
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: Thebooedocksaint] * 1
    #24506158 - 07/24/17 10:58 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

I understand your position, but I think time will show that the chemical bond is still a pure quantum-mechanical effect and not the "work" of the forces of Coulomb.

Have a nice day too.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777] * 1
    #24518914 - 07/30/17 06:36 PM (6 years, 5 months ago)

All of chemistry is a quantum mechanical.  The electro-magnetic force is well incorporated into quantum theory.  Why do you call it "the forces of coulomb"?  Sounds like something from lord of the rings.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore Cultivation Supplies   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Five fold chromium bonding Shmoppy McGillicuddy 1,371 6 11/13/05 09:52 PM
by Baby_Hitler
* Good Chemistry Book TheCow 16,936 16 09/04/11 02:34 PM
by rnastruc
* Electronic nose 'sniffs out cancer' TackleBerry 928 2 05/08/03 06:01 AM
by TackleBerry
* How to learn chemistry? astabooty 3,559 10 02/26/07 12:50 AM
by Legend9123
* need some help with my chemistry lab wrestler_az 1,532 9 09/21/03 09:20 PM
by ToxicMan
* Simple Chemistry/Physics Question Madtowntripper 978 17 09/11/08 07:37 PM
by buritobomb
* Chemistry of McKenna's Invisible Landscape supercollider 1,008 2 10/18/06 08:08 PM
by UnderNose
* Just found the mass of an electron... DieCommie 2,462 18 02/21/08 12:06 PM
by skydog

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: trendal, automan, Northerner
9,783 topic views. 0 members, 0 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.03 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 15 queries.