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Invisiblemicro
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #22965969 - 03/02/16 03:12 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

chemist777 said:
At first, you badly brought up.
quantum sistem
Therefore, eliminate illiteracy




How apropos :lol:

I'm done. Continue not making any sense though, by all means.


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Offlinechemist777
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: micro]
    #22966033 - 03/02/16 03:28 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

:smile:  Sorry for the typo in the word system.

Confirmation of why three electrons can be considered one fermion:
"Fermionic or bosonic behavior of a composite particle (or system) is seen only at large distances (compared to the size of the system). At proximity, where spatial structure begins to be important, a composite particle (or system) behaves according to its constituent makeup. For example, two atoms of helium cannot share the same space if it is comparable by size to the size of the inner structure of the helium atom itself (~10−10 m)—despite bosonic properties of the helium atoms. Thus, liquid helium has finite density comparable to the density of ordinary liquid matter."

  http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Fermion


Edited by chemist777 (03/02/16 07:06 PM)


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Offlinechemist777
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #22969191 - 03/03/16 11:49 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

The biggest disadvantage of the resonance theory is that resonance structures do not exist in reality, they are not.
With the help of three electron bond we can provide the actual structure of the benzene molecule.

The need to introduce three electron bond in the description of the benzene molecule can be understood (to some extent) reading the book (Chapter IX "Chemistry") Loren R. Graham. Science, Philosophy, and Human Behavior in the Soviet Union, Columbia University Press, 1987.

Short and interesting in Chapter IX "chemistry" of this book Loren R. Graham describes the concept of resonance theory in chemistry (description of the benzene molecule), as well as its criticism of the Soviet period.

Loren R. Graham - Professor at MIT (USA) on the big Material of actually analyzes full of dramatic story of the interaction of dialectical materialism and Soviet scients in the period from 1917 to mid-80s.
Provides a link to the original work.

Here is a quote Pauling:
"We can say ... that the molecule can not be satisfactorily represented by any particular structure of the valence bond and stop trying to tie its structure and properties of the structure and properties of other molecules. But, using valence bond structures as a basis for discussion, we are using the concept of resonance can give an explanation of the properties of the molecule, directly and simply in terms of other properties of the molecules. For us, convenient, for practical reasons, talk about the resonance of molecules among several electronic structures. "

Here's another quote Academician Koptyuga:
British journalist: "If you look at the history of science after the Revolution, you will see several cases of political interference in the fundamental research ... What do you think, could this happen again? "
Academician V. Koptiug, Chairman of the Siberian Branch of the USSR: "You see, this is a very complex issue ...
When in the past with philosophical positions criticized the concept of resonance in chemistry ... is, from my point of view, it is true.
But when a general philosophical position of trying to solve major scientific problems, such as whether genetics science or pseudoscience, it was a mistake. "
TV interview BBC, November 8, 1981

Who loves the history of chemistry (of benzene) is very interesting and informative.
I recommend reading (chapter 9, or a book), very interesting, here are some links:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1280407.Science_Philosophy_and_Human_Behavior_in_the_Soviet_Union

http://www.amazon.com/Science-Philosophy-Human-Behavior-Soviet/dp/023106442X

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259798638_Science_Philosophy_and_Human_Behavior_in_the_Soviet_Union_by_Loren_R_Graham

http://web.mit.edu/lrg/www/graham.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loren_Graham


Edited by chemist777 (03/03/16 11:52 AM)


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #22969196 - 03/03/16 11:51 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

chemist777 said:
:smile:  Sorry for the typo in the word system.

Confirmation of why three electrons can be considered one fermion:
"Fermionic or bosonic behavior of a composite particle (or system) is seen only at large distances (compared to the size of the system). At proximity, where spatial structure begins to be important, a composite particle (or system) behaves according to its constituent makeup. For example, two atoms of helium cannot share the same space if it is comparable by size to the size of the inner structure of the helium atom itself (~10−10 m)—despite bosonic properties of the helium atoms. Thus, liquid helium has finite density comparable to the density of ordinary liquid matter."

  http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Fermion





This substantiates what micro has been saying.


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Offlinechemist777
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: DieCommie]
    #22969207 - 03/03/16 11:55 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Is of the links is not clear that the fermion system can be fermion?

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Fermion


Edited by chemist777 (03/03/16 03:25 PM)


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Offlinechemist777
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: DieCommie]
    #22969320 - 03/03/16 12:30 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)



look at the picture which shows the urea molecule with the calculations.
The multiplicity of C-N bonds in the molecule of urea - 1.686. Think, this mean the C athom connected with two atoms of nitrogen (urea) bonds with a multiplicity of approximately 1.7, fold that is one of the C-N bond is almost 2.  Are classical structure transmits real formula of urea molecules?
The multiplicity of C-O bond (urea) of approximately 1.5. That is the classic formula of urea (to which all accustomed to in the school and at university) almost not reflects the real structure of the urea.
Naturally, the explanation of the conjugation of the unshared pair of electrons of nitrogen with C-N bond are right. But classical formule (without arrows) does not show the structure of the molecule.
And note that the corresponding resonance structure (in which a multiplicity of the C-N bond - 2) can be written, but of course you can not write a resonance structure in which the two C-N bond have multiplicity 2.

See calculations on page 30 on this link: https://www.scribd.com/doc/269637580/Structure-of-the-benzene-molecule-on-the-basis-of-the-three-electron-bond

P.S. http://vixra.org/pdf/1607.0022v1.pdf
    http://vixra.org/author/bezverkhniy_volodymyr_dmytrovych


Edited by chemist777 (08/21/16 03:32 AM)


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OfflineAaradin
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #22977956 - 03/05/16 11:07 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

When I saw this I had a flash back to chemistry class in high school.  Correct me if i'm wrong because it's been a while but the normal theory on chems like benzene is that the electrons are de-localized not belonging to a single bond / atom kind of in a state of 'flux'?

Sorry still parsing through the whole thread, will have to do some research.  Have been wanting to get back in to chemistry.  Still remember doing qualitative analysis separating chemicals / from a solution and determining what they were.

Sorry for the tangent heh. :smile:


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Offlinechemist777
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: Aaradin]
    #22978454 - 03/06/16 07:02 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Explanation of the structure of benzene with delocalized electrons is actually given in the school and university. But there is not so simple and smooth, so I think that the explanation of the structure of benzene by the three electron bond are better.
Excellence description why three electron bond are better given by a posts before.

Without regard of three electrone bond its impossible to portray oxygen molecule that has a multiplicity of connection 2 and two unpaired electrones. This experimental fact that multiplicity ob bond in the oxygen molecule is equal to two, and at the same time there are 2 unpaired electrones (Oxygen molecule has paramagnetic properties, it is an experimental fact, the multiplicity of bond correlates with the energy of bond, with IR spectra and the like, and there is no doubt that the multiplicity of oxygen molecule is two).
Pick of molecule of oxigen on p.28, 32 by the first link.

"Generally, the octet rule defines the state of the three-electron bond, that is, the distribution of the electrons, the energy of their interaction with each other and other unpaired electrons, the fact and the extent of belonging of the three-electron bond electrons to one or another atom." (p. 32)
This fact is yet another confirmation of the existence of three electrone bond.

If possible, return to the excellent science chemistry, Good luck!


Edited by chemist777 (03/09/16 11:58 AM)


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: Aaradin]
    #22988768 - 03/09/16 11:35 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cody1P-LSD said:
When I saw this I had a flash back to chemistry class in high school.  Correct me if i'm wrong because it's been a while but the normal theory on chems like benzene is that the electrons are de-localized not belonging to a single bond / atom kind of in a state of 'flux'?




Yes. Well, it has normal bonds; if you remember from school a double-bond is a sigma bond and a pi bond.

It's these pi bonds that are "shared" between the atoms, or a better way to look at it is to think of it as a resonance structure of alternating double bonds.

The important part is it helps to de-localize a charge, for example from an electron-withdrawing side group.

This isn't just seen in benzene but other molecules as well, like the cyclopentadienyl anion, certain purines, pyridines and pyramidines, etc.


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Edited by micro (03/09/16 11:41 AM)


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Offlinechemist777
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: micro]
    #23032586 - 03/22/16 05:09 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

33 screenshots show the theory of three electron bond.



































































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Invisiblemicro
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #23033308 - 03/22/16 10:32 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

chemist777 said:
I'm gonna post so many pictures they'll HAVE to believe me! HAhAhahaaa




Come on, cut it out D:

I stopped at the first picture, around figure 1.

That isn't how the charges on benzene work or ortho/para and meta directing groups wouldn't have the effect that they do.

Then you have alternating charges on the next one which, while I suppose it is slightly more correct, is still incorrect.

Unsubstituted benzene would be more like -, -, -, -, -, -.

Stick an EWG on it though, and it will follow the pattern in figure two.


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Offlinechemist777
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: micro]
    #23033387 - 03/22/16 11:00 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

I post this pics to get people much easier to understand the theory.
Orto, para and meta effectr in benzene with three elctron bond beautifully explains. To understand this see 4 pic (5 figure) and imagine pumping (or vice versa) of the electron density taking into account the interaction of three electron bonds in benzene.


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Offlinechemist777
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #23036553 - 03/23/16 07:55 AM (7 years, 10 months ago)

This 33 screenshots (most with explanation) see by this link:

  https://archive.org/details/@threeelectronbond


Edited by chemist777 (03/23/16 08:45 AM)


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OfflineThebooedocksaint
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #23055592 - 03/28/16 04:17 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

I, personally, would prefer a (recent) peer reviewed journal article.


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Offlinechemist777
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: Thebooedocksaint]
    #23145198 - 04/22/16 06:27 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)


The existence of large aromatic monocycles has been proved impossible based on interaction of three-electron bonds through the cycle at distances between the bonds (through the cycle) greater than 3.5 Å due to the lack of energy interaction (the length of chemical bonds is in the range of distances 0.74 Å – 3.5 Å).
The chemical bond (two-electron and three-electron) is considered on the assumption that the electrons in a chemical bond can be regarded as being in an entangled quantum state, that is, the chemical bond is seen as a new "indivisible" particle. There has been provided an algorithm for calculating the two-electron chemical bond "on the tip of the pen". An attempt was made to explain the mechanism of interaction of particles in an entangled quantum state on the basis of a new model of the interfering Universe.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/310127009/Supplement-to-the-theoretical-justification-of-existence


Why interesting can go by link to see "A short analysis of chemical bonds":

https://www.scribd.com/doc/306411260/A-short-analysis-of-chemical-bonds

P.S.  http://vixra.org/author/bezverkhniy_volodymyr_dmytrovych


Edited by chemist777 (08/21/16 03:36 AM)


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OfflinegatitoCalvo
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #23162763 - 04/27/16 07:37 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

This whole thread gave me cancer.  You cannot possibly tell me, chemist777whateveryournameis, that this is even remotely relevant today in physical chemistry or anywhere else?


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Offlinechemist777
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: gatitoCalvo]
    #23164462 - 04/28/16 09:24 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Did you know other explanations of the existence or non-existence of large aromatic monocycles?


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Offlinechemist777
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #23193660 - 05/05/16 08:46 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Screenshots show the theory of three electron bond (1,2,3,4).













































































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OfflinePhysical Entropy
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: chemist777]
    #23223692 - 05/13/16 08:12 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

I need a recipe for extracting cyanogenic glycoside from apple seeds or bitter almonds or elderberries. I do better with knowing what to buy when it comes to brands containing chemical compounds for extraction rather than exact chemical compound formulas. Example given NaCl table salt... the best concentration of this compound is sold under the brand name...

In return I give you Syntheses production for "Chlorine trifluoride" and a link to buy chemicals for sythinsation process....


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Offlinechemist777
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Re: chemistry, benzene on the basis of the three-electron bond [Re: Physical Entropy]
    #23224934 - 05/14/16 06:02 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

We discuss here about the theory of the chemical bond. Your request a bit different ...


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