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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Sidestreet]
    #22220955 - 09/11/15 09:19 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Sidestreet said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Act casual. 




Here are 41 stories of people who were acting casual:  https://ccrjustice.org/stories-stop-and-frisk

and really dude?  "Negroes?"




Told by the people who got stopped and you just believe everything they say.:picard:

I have explained my use of Negro numerous times.  They aint black and they aint any more African than an Egyptian.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22221021 - 09/11/15 09:33 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Do you know why more Negroes were stopped?  Because they live in high crime areas where gun violence is rampant.




qman already tried this argument.  The statistics don't back it up.  The precincts that used stop and frisk the most were not high crime areas.

Quote:

If you want to get rid of drug busts get rid of prohibition.




Ending the drug war would do a lot for our society.  So would making for profit prisons illegal.  The two support each other.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineSidestreet
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Registered: 09/14/06
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
    #22221089 - 09/11/15 09:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not arguing the correlation.  The correlation is a reality.

I'm arguing that stop-and-frisk was a shitty policy, it was abused by the police, and that race should be handled differently from age and sex because it IS different. 

Their own stats show that almost 9 of 10 people stopped weren't committing a crime (http://www.nyclu.org/issues/racial-justice/stop-and-frisk-practices).  Add that to disproportionate stops for minorities and you have the NYPD stopping far more innocent minorities than innocent whites (by proportion)

Of course that's going to cause an uproar!  You can't just erase the fact of this country's history with race.  It's not hypocritical because it's apples and oranges.  We never enslaved anyone for hundreds of years based on their age or sex.

Maybe crime went down as a result of the policy (a contested assertion) but the fact is that the policy was unconstitutional and created an unconscionable reality.  By the way, if the policy explicitly directed the police to stop the elderly or men only, that would be unconstitutional too.

We could respond to the correlation by simply imprisoning ALL minorities.  In theory, that too would lower the crime rate.  It's just that our society will not tolerate it.  Our society didn't tolerate stop-and-frisk either.


Edited by Sidestreet (09/11/15 09:55 AM)


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OfflineSidestreet
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22221106 - 09/11/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Should
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Sidestreet said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Act casual. 




Here are 41 stories of people who were acting casual:  https://ccrjustice.org/stories-stop-and-frisk

and really dude?  "Negroes?"




Told by the people who got stopped and you just believe everything they say.:picard:

I have explained my use of Negro numerous times.  They aint black and they aint any more African than an Egyptian.




Should I instead just go with your assumption that the 9 out of 10 innocent people that were stopped were acting shady?

And as for the Negro thing, that's like claiming your own private interpretation of the rebel battle flag and ignoring all of history and its effect on the rest of the world.  You can do it all you want but it takes chutzpah to expect nobody to have a problem with it...


Edited by Sidestreet (09/11/15 09:56 AM)


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Sidestreet]
    #22221159 - 09/11/15 10:07 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Sidestreet said:
I'm not arguing the correlation.  The correlation is a reality.

I'm arguing that stop-and-frisk was a shitty policy, it was abused by the police, and that race should be handled differently from age and sex because it IS different. 

Their own stats show that almost 9 of 10 people stopped weren't committing a crime (http://www.nyclu.org/issues/racial-justice/stop-and-frisk-practices).  Add that to disproportionate stops for minorities and you have the NYPD stopping far more innocent minorities than innocent whites (by proportion)

Of course that's going to cause an uproar!  You can't just erase the fact of this country's history with race.  It's not hypocritical because it's apples and oranges.  We never enslaved anyone for hundreds of years based on their age or sex.

Maybe crime went down as a result of the policy (a contested assertion) but the fact is that the policy was unconstitutional and created an unconscionable reality.  By the way, if the policy explicitly directed the police to stop the elderly or men only, that would be unconstitutional too.

We could respond to the correlation by simply imprisoning ALL minorities.  In theory, that too would lower the crime rate.  It's just that our society will not tolerate it.  Our society didn't tolerate stop-and-frisk either.




"stop-and-frisk was a shitty policy"

I agree.

"and that race should be handled differently than age and sex because it IS different"

IF police are going to use profiling in high crime areas, why would they use age and sex but exclude race?  That makes no sense, even you acknowledged that race is correlated to higher crime, ignoring it would be just lying to themselves.


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OfflineSidestreet
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
    #22221201 - 09/11/15 10:20 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The point is that profiling shouldn't be used at all.  We're never going to stop cops from wanting to do it but to many people it looks like they were given carte blanche and ran amok.

The legal standard for a stop-and-frisk ("Terry pat") has to do with suspicious behavior.  Police are allowed to stop someone who's acting suspicious.  Not age, nor race, nor sex is supposed to have anything to do with it, legally.  Doesn't mean that it won't happen in reality though and the City was in effect encouraging it to happen.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22221267 - 09/11/15 10:39 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>They aint black and they aint any more African than an Egyptian.

Actually, an Egyptian does have claim to the term African since he/she is a citizen on the continent of Africa. Brown or dark brown people born in usa or other continents have no claim to the term except in the minds of brainwashed sheep and the media who did the brainwashing.

If negro is such a terrible racist word, which it is not, why then the united negro college fund, is that a racist organization? Are they run by the kkk? Get a clue, people. Quit trying to bully everyone into using your favorite word du jour which happens to be false.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineSidestreet
Digging for Rainbows
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22221285 - 09/11/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Again, history.  A word on its own isn't racist.  A word means nothing except the meaning given to it.

"Nigger" is just six letters.  It's not racist.  Racism is in the heart of the person speaking it.

The fear and the shame and the anger is in the person hearing it.  Like it or not, your words have an effect on others.  I guess the real question is whether you care.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Sidestreet]
    #22221366 - 09/11/15 11:07 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If you look around you will find some who are offended by anything you can think of. If negroes are so offended by the term nigger why do they say it themselves all the time? Why is it only wrong if a white person or other race besides negroes says it? Its bullshit promoted by the media.

We are supposed to say vertically challenged instead of short, "plus size" instead of fat, etc and we've all heard other equally silly examples. If I decide everyone must say melanin challenged instead of "white", must all people bow down and use the new term? Or only if the idiots in the media start demanding it? Whites are too smart to play silly games like that.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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OfflineSidestreet
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22221513 - 09/11/15 11:37 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Whites are too smart to play silly games like that.




Wow, that's a solidly white-supremecist statement.

It makes a huge difference who says what to whom.  Context makes all the difference.  If my brother mentioned that my mom was looking a little "plus size" these days, I'd feel a lot different than if my asshole neighbor said it right after we got in a fight.

You don't have to do anything "media" tells you to do.  Act however you want.  All the big outlets have an agenda.


Edited by Sidestreet (09/11/15 11:39 AM)


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22221553 - 09/11/15 11:40 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know zap's age.  I think he's quite a bit older than me.  Negro may sound PC in his mind.

As far as blacks calling each other names, I may say stuff like 'you asshole' to my close friends, that doesn't mean strangers can call me an asshole without being rude.

Most of the time when I hear the n word in hip hop it is used as a derogatory term, not as a term of endearment.  The MC might be referring to someone he thinks is really dumb or still acts like a slave.  I think mainstream rap has perverted things but that's what mainstream music does.  Hops on bandwagons without looking at the substance in order to make money.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22221561 - 09/11/15 11:41 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Honestly, there is a big difference between using the word Nigger, and the word nigga. Nigga is slang for brother, bro, dude, ect. I use the word nigga often and I'm not black.

Also I haven't seen/heard plus size used outside of clothing  sizes. No one is going to buy "Fat sizes". But the whole plus size women thing is pretty much chubby women. Women that have some meat on them, curves, butts, ect.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Achillita]
    #22221592 - 09/11/15 11:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It is a fact that whites do not play that silly game so piss off with your white supremacist garbage, ss.

Ach, another euphemism they use is "big and tall" meaning fat as hell. I went into one store which was called the  "big and tall mens shop" and asked if they had anything for tall people. They said no.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22221616 - 09/11/15 11:55 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:lol: That's something that's been around for a long time though. Same with "Husky" brands for younger kids. The thing is, no ones gonna buy clothes that are labeled as for fat people. It's advertising, no one wants to be insulted and ostracized when they buy something.

I know a lot of white people who don't like being called cracker. The reason why negro and nigger are considered bad terms is because they were used up until quite recently to ostracize people. I have not met a black person who was angry they were called black. I've met white people who were angry that the black person was called black though :lol:

IMO, you are what you are, but it really doesn't matter.


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Achillita]
    #22222027 - 09/11/15 01:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

some fuckin closet racists over here now.

that's what I love about trump, I know that anyone who can slightly understand or agree with what he's goin on about (ignorant american exceptionalism, racist stereotyping, islamophobia) is not really worth spending my time talking to

ps. http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/28/donald-trump-is-the-new-face-of-white-supremacy/


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Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Sidestreet]
    #22222057 - 09/11/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Sidestreet said:
The legal standard for a stop-and-frisk ("Terry pat") has to do with suspicious behavior. Police are allowed to stop someone who's acting suspicious.  Not age, nor race, nor sex is supposed to have anything to do with it, legally.  Doesn't mean that it won't happen in reality though and the City was in effect encouraging it to happen.




I think you hit the nail on the head here. I find it shocking that the 'small government' people always defend the cops. Well, I guess not 'always', only against the 'negros'.

Had they stuck to this, instead of chasing after people selling loose fucking cigarettes, they might have actually found weapons on more than 0.2% of people. In the report, it was shown in court that the officers had no justification whatsoever for stopping a significant portion of those stopped. Maybe if they had done their fucking job and stopped based on 'suspicious behavior', and reasonable suspicion of carrying a weapon, they might still have their program.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
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Every one of you should see this video.
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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: airclay]
    #22222146 - 09/11/15 01:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
some fuckin closet racists over here now.

that's what I love about trump, I know that anyone who can slightly understand or agree with what he's goin on about (ignorant american exceptionalism, racist stereotyping, islamophobia) is not really worth spending my time talking to

ps. http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/28/donald-trump-is-the-new-face-of-white-supremacy/




They're not 'closet racists'. Stonehenge believes black people were better off as slaves. Conservative America has racist language thrown at them all day, and it's easy for them to get confused and blame victims, or create enemy figures, like 'towelheads' and 'negros' and immigrants. They are hsteful people.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlineqman
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: airclay]
    #22222195 - 09/11/15 02:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
some fuckin closet racists over here now.

that's what I love about trump, I know that anyone who can slightly understand or agree with what he's goin on about (ignorant american exceptionalism, racist stereotyping, islamophobia) is not really worth spending my time talking to

ps. http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/28/donald-trump-is-the-new-face-of-white-supremacy/




Give me a break, that article is pure garbage. Trump is against the illegal immigrants that broke the LAW by entering the US ILLEGALLY, why is pointing out this fact racist? 

Trump also pointed out the massive amount of crime that illegals do once inside the US, why is this fact racist?  Even the FBI statistics back up Trump's comments- http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/fbi-data-backs-up-trump-claims-on-illegals-and-crime/

Trump is speaking the truth about illegals and the problems they cost the US, this has NOTHING to do with "racism", this is a economic and cultural issue, they all need to be deported.


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
    #22222200 - 09/11/15 02:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

How do you suggest we go about deporting them?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
    #22222213 - 09/11/15 02:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Q, its a standard libtard trick to cry racism whenever inconvenient facts come up. They will tell you Hispanics are white but when you want to keep out illegals, they change gears and say that is racist somehow. You can't have an intelligent conversation with people who get all their "facts" from the msm and believe every word they are told by fellow moonbats. The main thing they have against our future president trump is the letter after his name "r".


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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