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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
#22216120 - 09/10/15 09:38 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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The case against OJ was extremely weak. The prosecutors knew it before trial ever started and even told their boss that there wasn't enough evidence to convict. Political pressure forced them to bring charges and go to trial, however, and predictably, he was acquitted.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
#22216129 - 09/10/15 09:40 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wonder what ever happened to the Bronco. Those things are quite desirable nowadays.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


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Posts: 14,850
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
#22216140 - 09/10/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The case against OJ was extremely weak. The prosecutors knew it before trial ever started and even told their boss that there wasn't enough evidence to convict. Political pressure forced them to bring charges and go to trial, however, and predictably, he was acquitted.
As usual you pull statements out of your ass with nothing to back them up.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Enlil
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Registered: 08/16/03
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: ballsalsa]
#22216161 - 09/10/15 09:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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The only Ford that was ever desirable was Lita:
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,866
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
#22216182 - 09/10/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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But seriously, i know a guy with a white bronco, and he can't go to the market without 5 or 6 offers to buy his car
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Astral Pain]
#22216273 - 09/10/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Astral Pain said:
Quote:
BoldAsLove said: Do you have any evidence that stop and frisks are effective at preventing future crime?
If a gun is taken away from someone on the streets it can't be used in a crime. The chances this person has a ccw permit is unreal, especially in NYC. This is common sense, and anyone who lives in areas with gun crime(besides criminals) would encourage stop and frisks to make the streets safer. BTW, what the fuck kind of question is this?
It's a simple question. You made an assumption, but provided nothing to back it up. Sure it's common sense that if a weapon is taken away, it can't be used, but as Bigbadwoof points out, it's important to look at how effective stop and frisks are at finding weapons: not very.
If stop and frisks are effective, there are several ways that it could show in the statistics. Compare crime rates in neighborhoods before and after stop and frisk for example. You could also compare dozens of neighborhoods with similar demographics, but different stop and frisk policies. You could look at the percentage of people stopped in a stop and frisk who go on to commit a violent crime, compared to the general populace. This is just what I can think of off the top of my head, but it would start to paint a picture.
You stated that you support stop and frisk because it may stop a crime that could kill someone, but you never provided any evidence to suggest that stop and frisks are actually effective at preventing crimes. This is why I asked you if you had evidence to support your assertion.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: ballsalsa]
#22216579 - 09/10/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:

But seriously, i know a guy with a white bronco, and he can't go to the market without 5 or 6 offers to buy his car
I would love to have a Bronco one day! They're absolutely everywhere around here in my area, i'm temped everyday
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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qman
Stranger

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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22216592 - 09/10/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
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qman said: Do you have a point? I believe the drug laws are unjust for everyone, some groups are just more likely to break those laws.
Black people are not more likely to break drug laws. Please show some evidence of this.
My point is clear. Bernie's policy positions, that Boldaslove outlined as being in support of minority communities, hold true to his claim. Whatever reason you have for believing that minorities aren't targeted for drug crime (Which they clearly are), it is obvious that Bernie's policies would have a bigger positive impact on minorities than white folks.
Do you have any evidence they are more likely to be targeted for drug crimes other than the higher arrest and conviction rates? I mean they might just actually commit more drug crimes than the general population, do you have any evidence that they don't?
Males are also arrested and convicted for more drug crimes than females, do you have any evidence that they are more likely to commit a drug crime, what about 18-30 year olds? Do you see how ridiculous your original statement is now?
Sure. Here is some stop and frisk data, demonstrating that police disproportionately target minorities. 81% of those stopped and frisked are innocent btw.
Quote:
In the first two quarters of 2015, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 13,604 times. 11,124 were totally innocent (81 percent). 7,158 were black (54 percent). 3,944 were Latino (29 percent). 1,541 were white (12 percent).
http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-data
Mind you that 44% of New Yorkers are white, 27% Latino, 25% Black, and 11% Asian. Remember 81% of these people are innocent, so it's not like they're doing illegal shit when they're stopped and frisked, generally speaking, but they are clearly being targeted disproportionately.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City
I remember reading the data about Ferguson also, which showed that black people were disproportionately stopped and searched, but a higher percentage of white people stopped actually had drugs.
Look, this isn't really something that's intellectually contested in America. Even Megyn Kelly conceded that black people are targeted more than white folks. Do you live under a rock? I've seen first hand that the justice system has always been much more harsh on my half arab brother than me, or any of our white friends. This is just true.
Ask Enlil, he's a fucking lawyer, I'm sure he's seen it first hand on plenty of occasions.
That's still not evidence that they DON'T commit more drug crimes relative to the general population, the fact of the matter is minorities still might commit more drug crimes.
Just because they get frisked more in high crime areas of NYC hardly proves they're targeted nationwide. Even minority cops search minorities more often than whites, this is not racism, it's commonsense.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
#22216704 - 09/10/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ssshhh shh.... sshhhh shhh shhh... stop talking.
This is the part where you plug your ears and say 'lalalalalalalalalallaaaa'
Don't pretend to be playing he logics and smart ppls game lmao! Unless you've honestly never looked into drug usage rates between different perceived races. In that case I have to assume you don't have any basis for anything you're saying. Given that you're a Trump guy, it makes sense.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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qman
Stranger

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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22216768 - 09/10/15 12:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Ssshhh shh.... sshhhh shhh shhh... stop talking.
This is the part where you plug your ears and say 'lalalalalalalalalallaaaa'
Don't pretend to be playing he logics and smart ppls game lmao! Unless you've honestly never looked into drug usage rates between different perceived races. In that case I have to assume you don't have any basis for anything you're saying. Given that you're a Trump guy, it makes sense.
Who gives a fuck about drug usage rates? Buying, using and selling drugs in visible high crime areas is the difference, nothing more.
Did you ever buy drugs from strangers on the street?
Why would someone smoking pot inside their own home get arrested for a drug crime? They don't, that's why drug USAGE statistics make no difference for this discussion.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
#22216814 - 09/10/15 01:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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So stop and frisk is okay because black people may commit more drug crimes in spite of evidence to the contrary?
Oh and here's the most recent survey. White people use more drugs overall. Black and white use weed about the same.
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/quicktables/quickconfig.do?34481-0001_all
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
Edited by paperbackwriter (09/10/15 01:09 PM)
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qman
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22216864 - 09/10/15 01:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: So stop and frisk is okay because black people may commit more drug crimes in spite of evidence to the contrary?
Oh and here's the most recent survey. White people use more drugs overall. Black and white use weed about the same.
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/quicktables/quickconfig.do?34481-0001_all
"So stop and frisk is OK" Why are you trying to put words into my mouth? I never said that, for the record I don't approve of "stop and frisk".
I don't care about usage rates, doing drugs in the privacy of your own home has NOTHING to do with arrest rates for drug crimes.
Buying, using, and selling drugs in public view in high crimes areas is why the disparity exists, it has nothing to do with USAGE rates!!
Edited by qman (09/10/15 01:37 PM)
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
#22216908 - 09/10/15 01:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: Buying, using, and selling drugs in public view in high crimes areas is why the disparity exists.
Do you have evidence to support that this is happening? As a white kid I bought, sold, and used plenty of drugs in public places. Not being black and thus not subject to stop and frisk or other forms of racial profiling is why I believe I was never caught.
Granted, I never really lived in a 'high crime area' but around here the cops hardly patrol the ghettos so again I think you're making a leap to justify racial profiling.
*edit* And here's some more fun data. The department that reported the most stops in 2014 (681 total, most precincts hover between 40 and 100) is in Ozone Park Queens. Out of 69 Neighborhoods Ozone Park ranks 26th in crime over all. So even though there crime rate is pretty much right in the middle they use stop and frisk about 10 times more often than other precincts.
Edited by paperbackwriter (09/10/15 01:48 PM)
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qman
Stranger

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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22216980 - 09/10/15 01:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
qman said: Buying, using, and selling drugs in public view in high crimes areas is why the disparity exists.
Do you have evidence to support that this is happening? As a white kid I bought, sold, and used plenty of drugs in public places. Not being black and thus not subject to stop and frisk or other forms of racial profiling is why I believe I was never caught.
Granted, I never really lived in a 'high crime area' but around here the cops hardly patrol the ghettos so again I think you're making a leap to justify racial profiling.
High crime areas make them easy targets, hell they bust the white trash drug dealing bars just the same. When you lack discretion concerning buying and selling drugs in public areas, it's target practice for law enforcement.
Let's be honest, many people get ratted out by other users and dealers, that's called the drug game. Most of the shit takes place in the high crime areas.
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
#22216988 - 09/10/15 01:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: So stop and frisk is okay because black people may commit more drug crimes in spite of evidence to the contrary?
Oh and here's the most recent survey. White people use more drugs overall. Black and white use weed about the same.
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/quicktables/quickconfig.do?34481-0001_all
"So stop and frisk is OK" Why are you trying to put words into my mouth? I never said that, for the record I don't approve of "stop and frisk".
I don't care about usage rates, doing drugs in the privacy of your own home has NOTHING to do with arrest rates for drug crimes.
Buying, using, and selling drugs in public view in high crimes areas is why the disparity exists, it has nothing to do with USAGE rates!!
Ok, let me tie all of these things together. The vast majority of stop and frisk arrests were for drugs, and marijuana in particular. That doesn't mean they were dealing. That's personal use a lot of the time. Weapons were only found 0.2% of the time. Minorities were targeted 85+% of the time, therefore minorities were charged significantly more often. 81% of all people stopped didn't have anything on them, so they clearly weren't going after street dealers specifically.
If you start stopping that many white people you'll get the same results. The study that ultimately led the judge to rule stop and frisk unconstitutional, also pointed out that once charged, minorities were far more likely to receive jail time, and overall disproportionately worse sentences.
We've seen reports in Baltimore that demonstrated the police were clearly racist, and disproportionately going after black folks. It happens everywhere.
I'm not saying all police are bad. However, I think reporting every single incidence we can, and calling them out on this shit is healthy. Pretending it doesn't exist hasn't been working for the past 50 years.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (09/10/15 01:52 PM)
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
#22216998 - 09/10/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
qman said: Buying, using, and selling drugs in public view in high crimes areas is why the disparity exists.
Do you have evidence to support that this is happening? As a white kid I bought, sold, and used plenty of drugs in public places. Not being black and thus not subject to stop and frisk or other forms of racial profiling is why I believe I was never caught.
Granted, I never really lived in a 'high crime area' but around here the cops hardly patrol the ghettos so again I think you're making a leap to justify racial profiling.
High crime areas make them easy targets, hell they bust the white trash drug dealing bars just the same. When you lack discretion concerning buying and selling drugs in public areas, it's target practice for law enforcement.
Let's be honest, many people get ratted out by other users and dealers, that's called the drug game. Most of the shit takes place in the high crime areas.
I edited my last post and illustrated that the data, at least in NY, doesn't support your high crime rate theory. Here's the copy paste.
Quote:
*edit* And here's some more fun data. The department that reported the most stops in 2014 (681 total, most precincts hover between 40 and 100) is in Ozone Park Queens. Out of 69 Neighborhoods Ozone Park ranks 26th in crime over all. So even though there crime rate is pretty much right in the middle they use stop and frisk about 10 times more often than other precincts.
Additionally most stop and frisks were due to 'furtive movements' (basically acting suspicious). Openly carrying an illegal object was number 10. Looking like you're dealing drugs was number 7.
And yeah, fuck narcs.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
Edited by paperbackwriter (09/10/15 01:52 PM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,510
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22217001 - 09/10/15 01:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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So wait, you guys are saying that Lita Ford wasn't desirable?
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
#22217007 - 09/10/15 01:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: So wait, you guys are saying that Lita Ford wasn't desirable?
If I close my eyes forever I bet she's still desirable.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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qman
Stranger

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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22217021 - 09/10/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: So stop and frisk is okay because black people may commit more drug crimes in spite of evidence to the contrary?
Oh and here's the most recent survey. White people use more drugs overall. Black and white use weed about the same.
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/quicktables/quickconfig.do?34481-0001_all
"So stop and frisk is OK" Why are you trying to put words into my mouth? I never said that, for the record I don't approve of "stop and frisk".
I don't care about usage rates, doing drugs in the privacy of your own home has NOTHING to do with arrest rates for drug crimes.
Buying, using, and selling drugs in public view in high crimes areas is why the disparity exists, it has nothing to do with USAGE rates!!
Ok, let me tie all of these things together. The vast majority of stop and frisk arrests were for drugs, and marijuana in particular. That doesn't mean they were dealing. That's personal use a lot of the time. Weapons were only found 0.2% of the time. Minorities were targeted 85+% of the time, therefore minorities were charged significantly more often. 81% of all people stopped didn't have anything on them, so they clearly weren't going after street dealers specifically.
If you start stopping that many white people you'll get the same results. The study that ultimately led the judge to rule stop and frisk unconstitutional, also pointed out that once charged, minorities were far more likely to receive jail time, and overall disproportionately worse sentences.
We've seen reports in Baltimore that demonstrated the police were clearly racist, and disproportionately going after black folks.
"Stop and Frisk" was just a NYC policy, that small segment hardly accounts for the rest of the country.
What reports in Baltimore have demonstrated anything? Freddie Grey was a street dealer in public view, that's why he had been arrested many times in the past.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
#22217259 - 09/10/15 02:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: "Stop and Frisk" was just a NYC policy, that small segment hardly accounts for the rest of the country.
What reports in Baltimore have demonstrated anything? Freddie Grey was a street dealer in public view, that's why he had been arrested many times in the past.
The case for Baltimore is quite clear, and I can demonstrate that fairly easily. First I want to know what your opinion of NYC is though? Do you still believe that there wasn't a racist element to their policing? Or that Blacks weren't disproportionately given stronger sentences for the same crimes?
I would like to beat this one to death first before we move on to another clear case ;-)
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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