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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22213894 - 09/09/15 07:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You're a bit off, though.  It's 77.7% if "white" includes Hispanic.  If not, it's only 62.6%


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Offlineqman
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
    #22213909 - 09/09/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

qman said:
Because last I looked, there are more white people serving drug time then any other demographic.




When did you last look?  Your information is outdated.
40% are black, 20% are latino.  Whites make up less than 40%.  Source




Ok, I stand corrected.


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Offlineqman
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22213923 - 09/09/15 07:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

qman said:
Because last I looked, there are more white people serving drug time then any other demographic.




When did you last look?  Your information is outdated.
40% are black, 20% are latino.  Whites make up less than 40%.  Source




Wow. That's astounding, considering that:

Quote:

Whites constitute the majority of the U.S. population, with a total of about 245,532,000 or 77.7% of the population as of 2013




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

Quote:

qman said:
Are you insinuating that prisons, mandatory minimums and the "war on drugs" are all racist in nature?  Because last I looked, there are more white people serving drug time then any other demographic. 

The only group that calls it racist are the victimization professionals, everyone else calls the policy wrong (for all people) and takes responsibility for their actions.




This is the part where you plug your ears and say 'lalalalalalala'.




Do you have a point?  I believe the drug laws are unjust for everyone, some groups are just more likely to break those laws.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
    #22213929 - 09/09/15 07:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

And some groups are more likely to be sentenced to time when they break the laws, and when they do get time, some groups get sentenced to more time on average than other groups.

There is no data to suggest that black people use illegal drugs more than white people.  If you have such data, please bring it forth.

Black people are more likely to get caught, because they're more likely to get pulled over, and when pulled over, more likely to get searched.  I'd also bet they're more likely to get arrested and charged when drugs are found too, but I've seen no solid data on this last point.




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Offlineqman
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
    #22214015 - 09/09/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
And some groups are more likely to be sentenced to time when they break the laws, and when they do get time, some groups get sentenced to more time on average than other groups.

There is no data to suggest that black people use illegal drugs more than white people.  If you have such data, please bring it forth.

Black people are more likely to get caught, because they're more likely to get pulled over, and when pulled over, more likely to get searched.  I'd also bet they're more likely to get arrested and charged when drugs are found too, but I've seen no solid data on this last point.







"Black people are more likely to get caught"

I agree, that's what happens when you do illegal dealing in public view in high crime areas.

"more likely to get pulled over"

Worse driving is the general consensus for that disparity.

"more likely to get searched"

They can blame their own culture of criminality for that reason.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
    #22214033 - 09/09/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Because every black man is responsible for the "culture of criminality".

Qman, you're not stupid, but you're being incredibly naïve here. You don't actually think that a black man and a white man have the same shot at justice in our court system, do you?


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
    #22214297 - 09/09/15 08:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Do you have a point?  I believe the drug laws are unjust for everyone, some groups are just more likely to break those laws.




Black people are not more likely to break drug laws. Please show some evidence of this.

My point is clear. Bernie's policy positions, that Boldaslove outlined as being in support of minority communities, hold true to his claim. Whatever reason you have for believing that minorities aren't targeted for drug crime (Which they clearly are), it is obvious that Bernie's policies would have a bigger positive impact on minorities than white folks.


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Offlineqman
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22214395 - 09/09/15 09:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

qman said:
Do you have a point?  I believe the drug laws are unjust for everyone, some groups are just more likely to break those laws.




Black people are not more likely to break drug laws. Please show some evidence of this.

My point is clear. Bernie's policy positions, that Boldaslove outlined as being in support of minority communities, hold true to his claim. Whatever reason you have for believing that minorities aren't targeted for drug crime (Which they clearly are), it is obvious that Bernie's policies would have a bigger positive impact on minorities than white folks.




Do you have any evidence they are more likely to be targeted for drug crimes other than the higher arrest and conviction rates?  I mean they might just actually commit more drug crimes than the general population, do you have any evidence that they don't?

Males are also arrested and convicted for more drug crimes than females, do you have any evidence that they are more likely to commit a drug crime, what about 18-30 year olds?  Do you see how ridiculous your original statement is now?


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
    #22214451 - 09/09/15 09:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, Michael Jackson really got hammered by the system didn't he? So did oj simpson even though both were clearly guilty as hell.

Stupid people get arrested more often, stupid people and poor people get convicted more often and get more time.


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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22214465 - 09/09/15 09:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

OJ was guilty of stealing, sure...not murder, though.  Michael was guilty of being one of the greatest performers of all time.


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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
    #22214502 - 09/09/15 09:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

^ the type of statement we expect from you. I suppose he paid off the parents of all those children he molested just to be generous? And oj's blood and other evidence found was just due to prejudice. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22214539 - 09/09/15 09:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

OJ's blood was found at his own house and in his own car.  That's hardly evidence of murder, though.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
    #22214973 - 09/09/15 11:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

qman said:
Do you have a point?  I believe the drug laws are unjust for everyone, some groups are just more likely to break those laws.




Black people are not more likely to break drug laws. Please show some evidence of this.

My point is clear. Bernie's policy positions, that Boldaslove outlined as being in support of minority communities, hold true to his claim. Whatever reason you have for believing that minorities aren't targeted for drug crime (Which they clearly are), it is obvious that Bernie's policies would have a bigger positive impact on minorities than white folks.




Do you have any evidence they are more likely to be targeted for drug crimes other than the higher arrest and conviction rates?  I mean they might just actually commit more drug crimes than the general population, do you have any evidence that they don't?

Males are also arrested and convicted for more drug crimes than females, do you have any evidence that they are more likely to commit a drug crime, what about 18-30 year olds?  Do you see how ridiculous your original statement is now?




Sure.
Here is some stop and frisk data, demonstrating that police disproportionately target minorities. 81% of those stopped and frisked are innocent btw.

Quote:


In the first two quarters of 2015, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 13,604 times.
11,124 were totally innocent (81 percent).
7,158 were black (54 percent).
3,944 were Latino (29 percent).
1,541 were white (12 percent).




http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-data

Mind you that 44% of New Yorkers are white, 27% Latino, 25% Black, and 11% Asian. Remember 81% of these people are innocent, so it's not like they're doing illegal shit when they're stopped and frisked, generally speaking, but they are clearly being targeted disproportionately.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City

I remember reading the data about Ferguson also, which showed that black people were disproportionately stopped and searched, but a higher percentage of white people stopped actually had drugs.

Look, this isn't really something that's intellectually contested in America. Even Megyn Kelly conceded that black people are targeted more than white folks. Do you live under a rock? I've seen first hand that the justice system has always been much more harsh on my half arab brother than me, or any of our white friends. This is just true.

Ask Enlil, he's a fucking lawyer, I'm sure he's seen it first hand on plenty of occasions.


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Edited by Bigbadwooof (09/09/15 11:54 PM)


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InvisibleAstral Pain
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22215194 - 09/10/15 01:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I hardly see a problem with cops frisking more blacks than whites considering blacks are arrested for shootings 75% of the time to only 1% being white in NYC. Stopping and frisking may find and confiscate a gun that could end up killing someone. I'll bet these stop and frisks occur in areas having a higher percentage of groups of blacks out on the streets. 

Go to page 11 for the shooting breakdown. 
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/enforcement_report_year_end_2014.pdf


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Astral Pain] * 1
    #22215198 - 09/10/15 01:29 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Do you have any evidence that stop and frisks are effective at preventing future crime?


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22215210 - 09/10/15 01:36 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Do you have any evidence that stop and frisks are effective at preventing future crime?





:ohyou::heytherebadboy:


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InvisibleAstral Pain
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22215228 - 09/10/15 01:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Do you have any evidence that stop and frisks are effective at preventing future crime?




If a gun is taken away from someone on the streets it can't be used in a crime. The chances this person has a ccw permit is unreal, especially in NYC. This is common sense, and anyone who lives in areas with gun crime(besides criminals) would encourage stop and frisks to make the streets safer. BTW, what the fuck kind of question is this?


--------------------
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Edited by Astral Pain (09/10/15 01:52 AM)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Astral Pain]
    #22215352 - 09/10/15 02:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Astral Pain said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Do you have any evidence that stop and frisks are effective at preventing future crime?




If a gun is taken away from someone on the streets it can't be used in a crime. The chances this person has a ccw permit is unreal, especially in NYC. This is common sense, and anyone who lives in areas with gun crime(besides criminals) would encourage stop and frisks to make the streets safer. BTW, what the fuck kind of question is this?




As I said, 81% of the people stopped don't have anything on them. Only 0.02% of those stopped have a weapon, and the vast majority of arrests are for marijuana. Studies have proven that the reason for increased incidence of stops for minorities was racially motivated, and not based on crime rates. On top of that, there is no evidence that stop and frisk reduces crime rates whatsoever.

Racism in our judicial system is common knowledge. If you're wearing Republican blinders, of course you won't see it, but it clearly exists, despite your rationalizations.

Quote:

"The percent Black population and the percent Hispanic population predict higher numbers of stops, controlling for the local crime rate and the social and economic characteristics of the precinct," Fagan's report explains.




Quote:

There have been three studies to date evaluating the effectiveness of stop and frisk. The first, an unpublished paper by NYU's Dennis Smith and SUNY Albany's Robert Purtell, found "statistically significant and negative effects of the lagged stop rates on rates of robbery, burglary, motor vehicle theft, and homicide and no significant effects on rates of assault, rape, or grand larceny," according to a summary here. "They also found evidence of 'declining returns to scale' (i.e., diminishing effects over time) of the effects of police stops on most of the offenses they analyzed but increasing returns to scale for robbery."

The second (free copy here), by University of Missouri-St Louis's Richard Rosenfeld and Arizona State's Robert Fornango, throws cold water on even Smith and Purtell's modest positive findings on robbery and burglary. They find the stops "show few significant effects of several SQF [stop, question, and frisk] measures on precinct robbery and burglary rates."




Quote:

"Given the possible negative impacts of SQF policing, both on citizens who live in such areas, and the primarily young and minority population that is the main subject of SQFs, we suspect especially in the long run that this approach will lead to unintended negative consequences,"




Quote:

Fagan’s analysis also showed that blacks and Hispanics, once they had been stopped, were more likely to be subjected to the use of force, even though the probability of the stop resulting in further action—like an arrest, or a summons—was actually lower in cases involving minorities than in those involving whites.




http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2013/08/13/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-stop-and-frisk-and-why-the-courts-shut-it-down/

Quote:

the ACLU accounting also points to other data that undermine the rationale for stop-and-frisk: It yielded few weapons when officials justified the policy as a way to reduce shootings and recover guns; in more than 5 million stops, police recovered a gun less than 0.02 percent of the time.




http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2014/08/21/12-years-of-data-from-new-york-city-suggest-stop-and-frisk-wasnt-that-effective/


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (09/10/15 03:03 AM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
    #22215743 - 09/10/15 07:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
And some groups are more likely to be sentenced to time when they break the laws, and when they do get time, some groups get sentenced to more time on average than other groups.

There is no data to suggest that black people use illegal drugs more than white people.  If you have such data, please bring it forth.

Black people are more likely to get caught, because they're more likely to get pulled over, and when pulled over, more likely to get searched.  I'd also bet they're more likely to get arrested and charged when drugs are found too, but I've seen no solid data on this last point.







"Black people are more likely to get caught"

I agree, that's what happens when you do illegal dealing in public view in high crime areas.

"more likely to get pulled over"

Worse driving is the general consensus for that disparity.

"more likely to get searched"

They can blame their own culture of criminality for that reason.




In many cases I'm sure you're right, but there is certainly a racial bias with law enforcement. For example, drug use amongst the races are basically equal, yet arrest rates for possession, and the sentences that follow, are wildly unequal.

It's like saying Jews were subversives in 1939 Germany, because 90% of subversives arrested by the Gestapo were Jews. Mmm no, not necessarily, because maybe the Gestapo were just out looking for Jews. Furthermore, maybe the way the Gestapo, and associated sociopolitical structure, marginalized the Jews led to the actual subversive ones to be just that.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
    #22216106 - 09/10/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
OJ's blood was found at his own house and in his own car.  That's hardly evidence of murder, though.




As usual you are selectively quoting the data, leaving out pertinent details, twisting words, and other weasel lawyer tricks to obscure the facts. The evidence showed beyond a reasonable doubt he was the killer. The only way he didn't do it is if the cops who had no preparation, and had no idea someone was going to be killed conspired on the spur of the moment to implicate oj. They were cops from multiple departments. They somehow obtained oj's blood and other evidence and conspired to do something that would have landed them in jail for many years on a major felony just to get someone they had no grudge against. Only a simple minded fool would believe that laughable defense and they had a jury of fools.

The prosecution fell down, let the defense get away with hand picking all negroes and one extremely liberal white woman. Then they got outgunned by a highly paid team of super weasels. But you approve of anything that helps a member of your own race so of course you applaud the unjust verdict.

OJ as we know, showed his criminal nature again later and is now in a well deserved jail cell for a different act of violence. Did you cry when you heard that? With the lenient policies in moonbat country he might have been out by now if he had been convicted of the murders so its justice delayed but refutes your claim that blacks always get the short end of the stick when they are in the criminal justice system.

We could use a laugh, why don't you tell us he was innocent of that last crime too? :lolsy:

If any white members of this board had done what oj did, they would have been convicted first time around.


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