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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
    #22203198 - 09/07/15 05:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>I didn't say "he got shot after running away".  He did, but I didn't say that.  You love strawman arguments.  I said he should have been left to run away, and he wouldn't have gotten shot.

Oh really, strawman you say?

Quote:

Enlil said:
That's an exaggeration.  Brown ran away after the gun altercation.  He had plenty of other choices that didn't involve shooting or killing Brown.




Here you are saying he ran away, which he did, then you mention the cop shooting him. You "forgot" quite deliberately to mention the fact the thug turned around and attacked the cop, that was what provoked the shooting. You clearly tried to imply he got shot while running though with clever weasel words you can deny it. Leaving out the important fact of attacking the cop and trying to take his gun is a type of falsehood. Its like saying "I went into the store and the salesman just handed me this stuff" forgetting to mention you didn't pay for it after asking to look at it and ran out the door.

The cop was just trying to do his job, keeping us safe from violent thugs. You think the store owner brown just got done robbing hates cops?

>And if you think a cop shooting someone is due process, you have a lot to learn about the Constitution.

It most certainly is. Its not a judicial process, granted, but no one said that. All he had to do was stop and let the cop cuff him and he would have his day in court, which you would have us believe he wanted. Or, simply keep running and maybe outrun the cop, no shooting would have resulted. Instead he tried his luck turning and attacking (again) the cop. Like dirty harry said "feel lucky punk?" Your guy didn't get lucky.

Why do you hate cops so much? Do you think we would be better off without them?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22203514 - 09/07/15 06:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Getting back to trump for a moment... it seems he is beating Clinton or biden in a head to head matchup according to survey usa. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/ Naturally he is beating sanders, and that is before people find out about his commie leanings. Though I will say I'd rather see him get in than most any of the others except of course trump.

Carson has made a surprising move forward, in a couple states he is second only to trump for gop nomination.

Poor hill is sliding backward and slowly deflating like a left over party balloon. Biden would beat her if he jumps in and goes for it. He and Bernie are so old they might not have the energy. Why give up a for sure senate seat for a long shot? Some states let them run for both so that may be.

I want to see either hill claw her way to the nomination but have the constant drip of revelations about her many scandals or Bernie get it. Trump vs sanders would be the dream match up.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22203624 - 09/07/15 06:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Oh really, strawman you say?




Yup, that's what I said, and that's what it is.  My argument has never been that the cop shot him while he was running away.  My argument is that the cop never should have chased him after the first altercation.  Anyone with half a brain would have known that the cop was going to have to shoot Brown at that point if he caught him.  Brown had already overpowered him once.  My argument is that the cop should have let him go instead of continuing down the path of certain use of lethal force.
Quote:


It most certainly is. Its not a judicial process, granted, but no one said that.


I'm certain the founding fathers didn't envision cops shooting people as qualifying as due process under the 5th, and I know that the drafters of the 14th amendment didn't.
Quote:


Why do you hate cops so much? Do you think we would be better off without them?


I don't hate cops.  I don't have room in my life to hate anyone.  I just think if someone is going to take the job of a police officer, he/she should be willing to sacrifice his life for the life of others...not shoot first and ask questions later.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
    #22203872 - 09/07/15 06:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

> Anyone with half a brain would have known that the cop was going to have to shoot Brown at that point if he caught him

So you put all the blame for the hoodlums actions on the cop who tried to stop him? That is typical of you. According to you, cops should just ignore violent criminals unless they give themselves up. Once they resist, cops should let them get away, is that about it? Speaking of half a brain... some people don't have that much

I wonder what would happen once word got around in the criminal community that you just have to resist and the cop will not shoot you, he will let you go. Do you suppose maybe crime would explode and criminals would automatically resist with violence? Could be huh?

>I'm certain the founding fathers didn't envision cops shooting people as qualifying as due process under the 5th, and I know that the drafters of the 14th amendment didn't.

As I already said and you studiously ignored, it is not judicial process we are talking about, its practical process. If you attack someone violently you may be killed by that person. Self defense is in the law, look it up. Many would call that justice. Cops take an oath to uphold the law, its his job to apprehend criminals, especially violent thieves. The cop was not the first one your hero assaulted, the same day he roughed up a store owner and robbed him.

Your statements are why the ultra left wing is often referred to in unflattering terms such as moonbat. You want cops to let people go and you want them disarmed. The bad guys can have their guns but not the cops.

No one wants to talk about trump? He is beating all his likely opponents in a head to head matchup and doing better every day. Billary, on the other hand, is slipping more every day.

All hail president trump!


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22204007 - 09/07/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I said nothing of blame or fault.  I said the cop should have not chased him since he was incapable of apprehending him. 

You can spew empty rhetoric all day long, but the truth is that you'll defend any action by a government official regardless of how outrageous or ridiculous it is.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
    #22204051 - 09/07/15 07:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>I said the cop should have not chased him since he was incapable of apprehending him.

Cops are not required to wrestle with every suspect. Not when they are violent thugs like the one you love so much. The cop would have given him a chance to give up, you seem to say if the hoodlum doesn't give up but instead assaults the cop again, the cop must let him go? Or if there is a chance the criminal will resist violently, he must not pursue? What kind of nonsense is that?

Any criminal might resist violently instead of surrendering and since we never know if the cop will win a fist fight, according to you the cop must not pursue any criminal. He might have to use his gun in self defense so its better to let him go? How can you live with yourself espousing this insanity?

Go trump go! I won't let you derail the thread.


--------------------
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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #22204437 - 09/07/15 08:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

So basically the libtard point of view is "anyone who resists arrest should be let go" that's fucking scary but whatever...


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Offlineqman
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22204517 - 09/07/15 09:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
So basically the libtard point of view is "anyone who resists arrest should be let go" that's fucking scary but whatever...




Yep, until they're a victim of a crime themselves, then they want law enforcement to turn into Superman. :lol:


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
    #22205302 - 09/08/15 12:15 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
So basically the libtard point of view is "anyone who resists arrest should be let go" that's fucking scary but whatever...




Enlil isn't a fucking liberal.

Quote:

Enlil said:
I said nothing of blame or fault.  I said the cop should have not chased him since he was incapable of apprehending him. 

You can spew empty rhetoric all day long, but the truth is that you'll defend any action by a government official regardless of how outrageous or ridiculous it is.




This is what it comes down to.


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Offlineqman
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22212783 - 09/09/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-black-lives-matter-2015-9

"I think they're trouble"

No PC ass kissing from this guy. :thumbup:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-black-lives-matter-won-give-microphone-article-1.2322496

"I would never give up my microphone (like Sanders)" 

Once again, speaking the truth.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22212790 - 09/09/15 03:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
So basically the libtard point of view is "anyone who resists arrest should be let go" that's fucking scary but whatever...




You got it. I was a little amazed myself even though I've heard a lot of loony things out of that crowd.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22213130 - 09/09/15 04:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You say it's PC, and it is, but I bet that many things that Bernie fights for in terms of racial justice, are things that you would support. For example, ending for-profit prisons, ending mandatory minimums for non-violent crimes, and ending the war on drugs. These are part of his racial justice platform and they make a lot of sense, regardless of how you feel about race relations in this country.


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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22213197 - 09/09/15 04:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
You say it's PC, and it is, but I bet that many things that Bernie fights for in terms of racial justice, are things that you would support. For example, ending for-profit prisons, ending mandatory minimums for non-violent crimes, and ending the war on drugs. These are part of his racial justice platform and they make a lot of sense, regardless of how you feel about race relations in this country.




Are you insinuating that prisons, mandatory minimums and the "war on drugs" are all racist in nature?  Because last I looked, there are more white people serving drug time then any other demographic. 

The only group that calls it racist are the victimization professionals, everyone else calls the policy wrong (for all people) and takes responsibility for their actions.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
    #22213222 - 09/09/15 05:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I've said before I would settle for Bernie.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlineqman
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22213314 - 09/09/15 05:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
I've said before I would settle for Bernie.




For sure, Trump and Sanders are not that far apart.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22213685 - 09/09/15 06:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
I've said before I would settle for Bernie.




I think that's a rational position to take, at least. Clearly you fellas want someone who isn't a status quo politician. I can respect that.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
    #22213788 - 09/09/15 07:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
You say it's PC, and it is, but I bet that many things that Bernie fights for in terms of racial justice, are things that you would support. For example, ending for-profit prisons, ending mandatory minimums for non-violent crimes, and ending the war on drugs. These are part of his racial justice platform and they make a lot of sense, regardless of how you feel about race relations in this country.




Are you insinuating that prisons, mandatory minimums and the "war on drugs" are all racist in nature?  Because last I looked, there are more white people serving drug time then any other demographic. 

The only group that calls it racist are the victimization professionals, everyone else calls the policy wrong (for all people) and takes responsibility for their actions.




No, I'm not. But people of color, statistically, are disproportionately affected, whatever the reason for that may be. My only point is that his racial justice ideas would benefit everyone, and while I've heard criticisms leveled against him for being too focused on racial justice, the platforms are common sense that I think many people would support, even if they can't stand PC culture.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
    #22213810 - 09/09/15 07:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Because last I looked, there are more white people serving drug time then any other demographic.




When did you last look?  Your information is outdated.
40% are black, 20% are latino.  Whites make up less than 40%.  Source


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
    #22213846 - 09/09/15 07:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Its a left wing site, the kind you favor. Its data are suspect.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
    #22213852 - 09/09/15 07:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

qman said:
Because last I looked, there are more white people serving drug time then any other demographic.




When did you last look?  Your information is outdated.
40% are black, 20% are latino.  Whites make up less than 40%.  Source




Wow. That's astounding, considering that:

Quote:

Whites constitute the majority of the U.S. population, with a total of about 245,532,000 or 77.7% of the population as of 2013




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

Quote:

qman said:
Are you insinuating that prisons, mandatory minimums and the "war on drugs" are all racist in nature?  Because last I looked, there are more white people serving drug time then any other demographic. 

The only group that calls it racist are the victimization professionals, everyone else calls the policy wrong (for all people) and takes responsibility for their actions.




This is the part where you plug your ears and say 'lalalalalalala'.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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