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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
    #22201283 - 09/07/15 10:01 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Again, enlil makes an unsupported statement backed up by nothing as his evidence. 'the cop said...'



So, you don't think that eyewitness testimony is evidence?  The cop admitted that Brown ran away and he chased him.  You can call the cop a liar if you want, but I see no reason not to believe him.  Either way, that is strong evidence that Brown ran away and the cop chased him.




Once again we get your statement, no link just you talking.

>evidence that Brown ran away and the cop chased him.

Hello, cops are supposed to chase and apprehend criminals. They didn't teach you that in law school? You think the cop should have let him go because he was a negro? What race are you, btw? Just so we know where your obvious bias comes from.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22201305 - 09/07/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

"Negro"

:uhno:


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Turtletotem]
    #22201350 - 09/07/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Turtletotem said:
"Negro"

:uhno:




Yep, I'm sure you've seen them before.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Turtletotem]
    #22201352 - 09/07/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Again, enlil makes an unsupported statement backed up by nothing as his evidence. 'the cop said...'



So, you don't think that eyewitness testimony is evidence?  The cop admitted that Brown ran away and he chased him.  You can call the cop a liar if you want, but I see no reason not to believe him.  Either way, that is strong evidence that Brown ran away and the cop chased him.




Once again we get your statement, no link just you talking.

>evidence that Brown ran away and the cop chased him.

Hello, cops are supposed to chase and apprehend criminals. They didn't teach you that in law school? You think the cop should have let him go because he was a negro? What race are you, btw? Just so we know where your obvious bias comes from.




Brown turned around and started charging toward Wilson. Brown got shot at because he continued toward Wilson after being ordered to get on the ground. Wilson's only other option at that point would have been a physical altercation with a 300lb man.


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InvisibleAstral Pain
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Astral Pain]
    #22201361 - 09/07/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

How did Brown make his way into a Trump thread? Hands up don't shoot belongs in the conspiracy forum.


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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Astral Pain]
    #22201370 - 09/07/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>Brown turned around and started charging toward Wilson

So enlil lied? Why am I not surprised? Neither will I be surprised when he gives no response.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22201375 - 09/07/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I don't lie.  According to the Darren Wilson's testimony, Brown ran and Wilson chased him.


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OfflineTurtletotem
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22201464 - 09/07/15 10:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Quote:

Turtletotem said:
"Negro"

:uhno:




Yep, I'm sure you've seen them before.




:uhno:


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
    #22201537 - 09/07/15 11:19 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:


Can you elaborate on why you feel that way? Personally, I think that would dangerously limit the ability of officers respond quickly to a gun wielding, disgruntled person or other life-threatening situation.



Sure, but I don't see that as the prime purpose of police.  The guy with a gun shooting people in the street while a cop responds is a very rare occurence.  Why does a police need a gun for a traffic stop?  Or for a drunk and disorderly?  There is no reason that the police can't have a specified procedure for bringing out the weapons in situations that require them.

Today, the lethal weapon is the primary tool for handling uncooperative citizens.  That is unacceptable.  Having a gun on your side means that gun gets drawn when tempers flare and people get angry.  More drawn guns means more people getting shot that didn't need to.  If the cop didn't have the gun so readily available, that would be reduced.

If your argument is that police firearms are mostly for public safety, I'm going to need something to back that up.  To me, it looks like police carry firearms for police safety.




My argument is more that the gun is for police safety, and if the police are safe, they are better able to respond to situations that could potentially pose a public threat. Plus, I recognize that officers have an unpredictable job and should be safe.

I agree with you that a gun is unnecessary in 99+% of situations and shouldn't be drawn. I also agree that it is used more as a tool to control unccooperative citizens, which is entirely unacceptable. But I think with both situations the solution is more training and harsher penalties for non-compliance.

For those rare instances when an officer needs a gun, I want them to have it immediately available. But if they reach for it in non life-threatening situations, they should be disciplined and trained.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
    #22201565 - 09/07/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I don't lie.  According to the Darren Wilson's testimony, Brown ran and Wilson chased him.




You stated it as a fact but the evidence from multiple witnesses shows he ran but then turned and attacked the cop. Leaving out that part is dishonest at the least.

Why did you dodge these questions?

>You think the cop should have let him go because he was a negro? What race are you, btw? Just so we know where your obvious bias comes from.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22201606 - 09/07/15 11:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

IMO, police safety needs to be secondary to public safety.  Police are like firemen.  They should not be out there thinking about their safety first.  The purpose of these jobs is that these people are paid to put themselves in harm's way to protect the public.  I think a lot of cops forget this and think that coming home alive should be the highest priority.

I'd be okay with senior officers getting guns, maybe, depending on the training, etc.  If that occurred, though, I think a written report should be made every time the gun is unholstered outside of a training/maintenance context.  If the culture changed so that cops were instilled with the idea that a gun does not get drawn except as a last resort, I might think differently.

Today, however, cops draw their guns when they get a dirty look.  I've had police pistols pointed at me dozens of times, and that's unacceptable.  For anyone else, pointing a gun at a person is assault with a deadly weapon....for a cop, it's an average late-night stop of an African-American.


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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22201619 - 09/07/15 11:36 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
I don't lie.  According to the Darren Wilson's testimony, Brown ran and Wilson chased him.




You stated it as a fact but the evidence from multiple witnesses shows he ran but then turned and attacked the cop. Leaving out that part is dishonest at the least.

Why did you dodge these questions?

>You think the cop should have let him go because he was a negro? What race are you, btw? Just so we know where your obvious bias comes from.



I said very clearly that the cop should have let him run.  The cop already knew that they guy was likely to attack him since he already had attacked him.  The cop also knew that he was incompetent and incapable of subduing or controlling Brown.  By chasing him, he pretty much guaranteed that he'd have to use deadly force. 

That is the choice that the cop made that I disagree with.

And no, it has nothing to do with the color of anyone's skin.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
    #22201708 - 09/07/15 11:56 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
IMO, police safety needs to be secondary to public safety.  Police are like firemen.  They should not be out there thinking about their safety first.  The purpose of these jobs is that these people are paid to put themselves in harm's way to protect the public.  I think a lot of cops forget this and think that coming home alive should be the highest priority.

I'd be okay with senior officers getting guns, maybe, depending on the training, etc.  If that occurred, though, I think a written report should be made every time the gun is unholstered outside of a training/maintenance context.  If the culture changed so that cops were instilled with the idea that a gun does not get drawn except as a last resort, I might think differently.

Today, however, cops draw their guns when they get a dirty look.  I've had police pistols pointed at me dozens of times, and that's unacceptable.  For anyone else, pointing a gun at a person is assault with a deadly weapon....for a cop, it's an average late-night stop of an African-American.




If police safety is secondary, we might have many fewer applicants to be police. Then again, that might be a good thing. They are being paid to put their life on the line, but they should have the tools necessary to protect their life. I still want every officer to either have a gun or have a partner with a gun. I think their job is so unpredictable that a gun could become necessary very suddenly.

I like the idea of a written report for every upholstering. I think that would be a very effective strategy. I also think their should be additional training required every time a gun is unnecessarily drawn.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22201850 - 09/07/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The technology exists for cops to be outfitted with holsters that keep track of every time the firearm is removed.  It should be treated as a serious and rare occasion that a firearm is removed from the holster in the field.  There's no reason this policy couldn't be implemented.

And yes, fewer applicants is a good thing.  We want the true zealots who want to protect the public...not the average dude who watched too many dirty harry movies and thinks he's going to be a hero.



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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
    #22202000 - 09/07/15 12:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>I said very clearly that the cop should have let him run

Its his job to apprehend the bad guys, not to just chase the ones that seem safe. The really bad ones are the ones we need off the street.

>I've had police pistols pointed at me dozens of times, and that's unacceptable.  For anyone else, pointing a gun at a person is assault with a deadly weapon....for a cop, it's an average late-night stop of an African-American.

I think that answers the question about what race you are and why you always take the side of the negro against the cop. Why dodge the question, are you ashamed of it? I've never had a cop point his gun at me. I suppose you will say that is white privilege? It makes us wonder what you did to provoke all that?

I still think its dishonest to say the cop shot him when he ran away when the fact is he charged the cop who was only doing his job, doing his duty to protect the rest of us from dirtbags like brown who you feverishly defend. He was not running away when shot, he brought it on himself and we all know it.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22202109 - 09/07/15 01:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Its his job to apprehend the bad guys,



He failed at that.  On top of that, he made it so that the suspect would never be charged, convicted, or punished.  It's an all-around failure.

Quote:



I've never had a cop point his gun at me. . . It makes us wonder what you did to provoke all that?




Drove in a poor neighborhood at night. 

Quote:



I still think its dishonest to say the cop shot him when he ran away .




It would be.  Of course, I never said that.  I said that if the cop had let him run away, Brown wouldn't have gotten killed.


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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
    #22202342 - 09/07/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>>Stonehenge said:
Its his job to apprehend the bad guys,

>He failed at that.  On top of that, he made it so that the suspect would never be charged, convicted, or punished.  It's an all-around failure.

I think he did a good job, one less dirtbag violent thug on the street. The punk selected his own punishment by attacking the cop, got his just rewards.

>>I've never had a cop point his gun at me. . . It makes us wonder what you did to provoke all that?

>Drove in a poor neighborhood at night. 

I highly doubt that was all there was to it. With your negative attitude toward cops I'm sure you failed to cooperate and gave them ample reason to pull the gun.

Do you think the fact I never had that happen to me despite having driven in poor neighborhoods at night many times is because of white privilege? I don't give them any hassle, do not make funny moves like I'm reaching for a weapon. I've been stopped many times and never had a gun pulled on me by a cop. Even negroes who act right don't normally have that happen let alone "dozens of times" Ergo, you did not act right and brought it on yourself.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22202526 - 09/07/15 02:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

No, I think you are very pro-government, so of course you kiss cops ass when they oppress you.  For people like you, anything the government does is just even if it goes against the Constitution.  Mr. Brown being killed without due process of law isn't justice...it's convenience.

And yes..."even negroes who act right" get oppressed by our government.


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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Enlil]
    #22202653 - 09/07/15 03:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
No, I think you are very pro-government, so of course you kiss cops ass when they oppress you.  For people like you, anything the government does is just even if it goes against the Constitution.  Mr. Brown being killed without due process of law isn't justice...it's convenience.

And yes..."even negroes who act right" get oppressed by our government.




LOL!! enlil called someone "pro-government" that's a hoot. I've got news for you, cops do not oppress me. I don't riot in the streets, steal things, or attack cops like the thug you seem to admire so much.

>Mr. Brown being killed without due process of law isn't justice...it's convenience

He got his due process when he attacked the cop. I still think, and most people would agree, that saying he got shot after running away was dishonest because it clearly was worded to imply he was running when shot which as you knew very well was not the case. And no, it is not against the constitution for a cop or anyone for that matter to shoot an attacker who showed without a doubt he was violent.

You hate cops so much you don't want them to do their job. Is that what they teach in the ghetto? Most people want to be free from crime and welcome cops patrolling their neighborhood. A cop living next door with his patrol car parked in the driveway is very reassuring. You are middle class now, its time to ditch that ghetto thought process.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22203001 - 09/07/15 04:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I didn't say "he got shot after running away".  He did, but I didn't say that.  You love strawman arguments.  I said he should have been left to run away, and he wouldn't have gotten shot.

And if you think a cop shooting someone is due process, you have a lot to learn about the Constitution.

A cops job isn't to kill criminals, no matter how much you may think it is.


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