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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22187849 - 09/04/15 12:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You're strawmanning.  I see these things.  I'm not the Obama fanatic you think I am.

On the other hand the worst thing you can say about Bush is to call him Shrub.  He got us into two wars, ran up billions in debt, gave the contract to his buddy Cheney's corporation, crashed the economy, put millions out of work, caused billions in 401ks to be lost.

As far as the unemployment numbers being massaged for political gain, I agree 100% and I agreed with qman when he brought it up a few pages ago.

But you just saying things were better under Bush doesn't make it fact either.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22187876 - 09/04/15 12:35 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
All fake numbers highly massaged. The true unemployment rate is much higher, they don't count people who have used up their unemployment benefits or who have quit looking for work, so called discouraged workers. And, most of those jobs you boast of are part time jobs. Instead of adding 1000 full time jobs with full benefits, they add 2000 part time jobs with lower wages and few benefits if any.

A true workers paradise indeed. :rolleyes:




I'm sorry, but FactCheck.org is widely regarded as being very accurate, so I have full confidence in those numbers. If you check the site, they also point out the negative numbers, like the increase in food stamps recipients and consumer prices.

You're right about part time jobs, but again, only looking at part of the picture. First of all, "part-time jobs actually starting sprouting up during President George W. Bush's term. In Bush's last year, involuntary part-time jobs shot up from 4.8 million to 8 million. So the argument that the part-time problem started under Obama isn't true." (source) So Obama didn't start the problem, and what's more, "while the number of involuntary part-time workers is still high, their ranks peaked in 2010 and have declined since." So the problem was actually Bush's, not Obama's, and Obama has been able to improve the situation, albeit slowly.

Also, to point out, Bush LOST private sector jobs over the course of his administration. While he did add a meager 3.0 million total jobs (gov+private) by the end of it (source), he had a net loss of private sector jobs. If you're going to talk about which president had a worse record on jobs, I think it is pretty clear.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


Edited by BoldAsLove (09/04/15 12:37 PM)


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22187889 - 09/04/15 12:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:

You're right about part time jobs, but again, only looking at part of the picture. First of all, "part-time jobs actually starting sprouting up during President George W. Bush's term. In Bush's last year, involuntary part-time jobs shot up from 4.8 million to 8 million. So the argument that the part-time problem started under Obama isn't true." (source) So Obama didn't start the problem, and what's more, "while the number of involuntary part-time workers is still high, their ranks peaked in 2010 and have declined since." So the problem was actually Bush's, not Obama's, and Obama has been able to improve the situation, albeit slowly.




:youthemandawg:


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22188204 - 09/04/15 01:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>On the other hand the worst thing you can say about Bush is to call him Shrub.  He got us into two wars, ran up billions in debt, gave the contract to his buddy Cheney's corporation, crashed the economy, put millions out of work, caused billions in 401ks to be lost.

How many wars are we involved in today? I've lost track of how many, we've got Iraq, which shrub negotiated the end to btw, we have Afghanistan, we have Syria, we have yemen which we are providing material support to the invading Saudis, and a few others and we are bombing just about every country over there. So yeah, I guess that looks a lot better to you. Plus the drones flying around by kids using joy sticks shooting up anyone who looks arab. Murder inc.

>But you just saying things were better under Bush

Its more like the downward trend got worse under obumble.

bal
>I'm sorry, but FactCheck.org is widely regarded as being very accurate, so I have full confidence in those numbers

Without looking I know its a left wing org that pulls many of the same tricks obumble does. Your own statement says

> While he did add a meager 3.0 million total jobs (gov+private) by the end of it (source), he had a net loss of private sector jobs.

See, that's the sort of crap govt tries to pull on us and you are trying it too. There were more jobs created but you bitch because they were partly govt jobs? So what?

Granted shrub was a tard and did a lot of stupid things. Don't forget the dems voted to invade Iraq, shrub could not have done it without their help. He negotiated the end of the Iraq war and your boy kept it going. Its still going right now, just proclaiming its over means nothing, people are still getting killed and some of them are ours. Why the hell are we still in there?

And the billions wasted under shrub are nothing compared to the trillions wasted with obumble's so called leadership. The pentagon literally can't account for hundreds of billions of dollars, has no idea where it went. $19T in debt and you talk about shrub being worse? He was bad, no doubt, lets vote for trump this time.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Registered: 03/10/11
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22188244 - 09/04/15 01:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:

>I'm sorry, but FactCheck.org is widely regarded as being very accurate, so I have full confidence in those numbers

Without looking I know its a left wing org that pulls many of the same tricks obumble does.





Actually, without looking, you can't say anything. Try collecting some information before making assumptions.

Quote:


Your own statement says

> While he did add a meager 3.0 million total jobs (gov+private) by the end of it (source), he had a net loss of private sector jobs.

See, that's the sort of crap govt tries to pull on us and you are trying it too. There were more jobs created but you bitch because they were partly govt jobs? So what?




First, this info came from the WSJ, not FactCheck.org, and if you think they're left wing and unreliable, well, there's not much I can say in response. Also, three million jobs is pathetic. Bill Clinton added over 23 million. Obama so far has added over 6 million. Finally, they weren't partly gov't jobs, they were entirely government jobs. Bush LOST nearly half a million private sector jobs during his administration, how could you possibly defend that as being better than the jobs that Obama has added to the economy? Part-time or not, a job is better than no job.

Quote:

$19T in debt and you talk about shrub being worse? He was bad, no doubt, lets vote for trump this time.




Obama cut the deficit by more than half. It sounds like you're blaming Obama for everything Bush did, but claiming that Obama is far worse.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22188320 - 09/04/15 02:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If obumble did so great then why has our nat debt more than doubled under his tenure? He has added more debt than all the previous presidents combined going back to the founding of our nation in the 1700's. You call that a good thing? How is that better than shrub? Shrub was one of the previous presidents, all 40 some odd that obumble out did in spending. His stimulus went mostly to the bankers, they play games with numbers and yes, the unemployment rate is much worse than the govt says and I don't give a crap what some left wing site says, labor force participation is lower than since right after ww2. You lefties can't wish that away with word games.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Posts: 1,888
Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22188350 - 09/04/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Obama's warmongering are among the many things I don't like about him.  He continued and even expanded on a lot of Bush's warmongering.

Dude I listen to some of Obama's biggest critics so I don't fall into party thinking...  and no I'm not talking about fox news and other manufactured media from the right.  I imagine some of the other 'left wing loonies' that post here are in the same boat.

But when it comes to the economy, Bush didn't exactly set the bar high for Obama.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22188380 - 09/04/15 02:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)



--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22188406 - 09/04/15 02:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
If obumble did so great then why has our nat debt more than doubled under his tenure? He has added more debt than all the previous presidents combined going back to the founding of our nation in the 1700's. You call that a good thing?




No, don't put words in my mouth. We are comparing the economies of Obama and Bush. You've ignored, so far, that Obama added more jobs, didn't lose private sector jobs (he added them), and that the part-time job problem was actually started by Bush and Obama improved it. You've also called the numbers that show that real weekly earnings and long-term employment have increased under Obama lies, but couldn't provide any evidence to support it.

So are you saying that because of the debt increase, this is an economy worse than Bush's, ignore other metrics?

By the way, in terms of a percentage increase of national debt (not raw figures), Obama increased the national debt less than Reagan did. So your point is not as definitive as you wish it was.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22188440 - 09/04/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Oh so obumble increased the debt more than Reagan? I never knew that. You aren't playing little word games are you, like most of the lefties? I think you are.

Bush tax cuts? How did they cause the debt? Debt did not go up that much with shrub who I think was also a bad president. How do you figure attacking the poor simple minded shrub makes obumble a good pres?

The recession? Happened on his watch, I don't blame him for that, it goes back a long ways but how did he handle it? Trillions in  stimulus and what have we got to show for it? He made the rich richers, we have a greater wealth divide today than before? Why is that a good thing? He spent all that money on things like solyndra and basically gave it to the rich. Instead of building our infrastructure he spent it on his adventures overseas which did nobody any good. How can you even say he was a good pres? He is in the running for worst ever in all of history.

Now the sheepish apologists will come out with the usual "but he's just a puppet" to justify his incompetence, ineptness, violation of the constitution, letting in illegal aliens and so on. Yeah, saying that makes it all good. :wink:


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22188471 - 09/04/15 02:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

He said less than Reagan.  And if you don't understand how lack of income creates more debt I don't know what to tell you.

Anyway back to Trump.

Here's an interview on his foreign policy with a right-wing radio show host.  He also talks about how awesome his wall will be (tall and good looking to boot!)



--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


Edited by paperbackwriter (09/04/15 02:55 PM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22188549 - 09/04/15 03:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Obama's warmongering are among the many things I don't like about him.  He continued and even expanded on a lot of Bush's warmongering.

Dude I listen to some of Obama's biggest critics so I don't fall into party thinking...  and no I'm not talking about fox news and other manufactured media from the right.  I imagine some of the other 'left wing loonies' that post here are in the same boat.






Last time I saw a liberal on the Shroomery championing Obama was maybe early spring 2009.

Since then, every "liberal" on here who regularly discusses politics have openly admitted he's not the kind of politician they want.


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InvisibleAstral Pain
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #22188610 - 09/04/15 03:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)










:laugh2:


--------------------
"I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out"               
                -Bill Hicks-

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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22188918 - 09/04/15 04:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Obama's warmongering are among the many things I don't like about him.  He continued and even expanded on a lot of Bush's warmongering.

Dude I listen to some of Obama's biggest critics so I don't fall into party thinking...  and no I'm not talking about fox news and other manufactured media from the right.  I imagine some of the other 'left wing loonies' that post here are in the same boat.






Last time I saw a liberal on the Shroomery championing Obama was maybe early spring 2009.

Since then, every "liberal" on here who regularly discusses politics have openly admitted he's not the kind of politician they want.




True, but I still love your signature picture! lmao

I just imagine if that picture had been on Fox news for about 5 minutes after Obama's winning numbers came in, how many heads would have literally fucking exploded! lmao!

Regardless of Obama's policies, he is a symbol of a big progressive stride in this country (for obvious reasons), and at least we can take that away from his presidency. He certainly hasn't been the best president, but he hasn't been the worst.

Bush was, as I said before, probably the worst president in the history of the United States. He's not even a coherent person. Electing him is almost equivalent to electing Sarah Palin.

I really wish America would look to their best and brightest for presidential and congressional positions, rather than their loudest, boldest, and most flamboyant. We need to break the molds that the parties have cut out for candidates. Luckily, for better or worse, that is clearly what is happening this election.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22188926 - 09/04/15 04:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I challenge you, Stonehenge, to provide a list of Bush's successes, and also reasons he is not the worst president in US history, without focusing exclusively on Obama. Focus on Bush. Did he do anything even mildly good? What was that thing?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22189089 - 09/04/15 05:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I like the comparisons between Obama and Carter. Both thrust into a shitty situation, made some good decisions and made some mistakes.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22189156 - 09/04/15 05:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Alright, so I don't even know what this thread is about anymore but here's something on the subject of the thread title.

I've been listening to Trump's speeches and interviews lately and I can officially say that the thread title is bang on. He is in fact making more and more sense everyday. He's the most moderate Republican out there. Everything he says is bang on. The only thing working against him is that deport everybody and let them back in again issue. If he said he would naturalized the good ones and ditched the bad one, he's be the  candidate that makes the most sense in the entire elction.


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Patlal]
    #22189273 - 09/04/15 05:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Alright, so I don't even know what this thread is about anymore but here's something on the subject of the thread title.

I've been listening to Trump's speeches and interviews lately and I can officially say that the thread title is bang on. He is in fact making more and more sense everyday. He's the most moderate Republican out there. Everything he says is bang on. The only thing working against him is that deport everybody and let them back in again issue. If he said he would naturalized the good ones and ditched the bad one, he's be the  candidate that makes the most sense in the entire elction.




Trump is a blowhard fool.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22189306 - 09/04/15 06:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Alright woof

>Regardless of Obama's policies, he is a symbol of a big progressive stride in this country

You asked me for one thing he did that was liberal when you were trying to paint him as a conservative or right winger or something. Now you are telling us he is a "progressive" which means liberal. You are revealing your secret liking for the bum.

I have never said shrub was a good president. I dare you to find a quote where I said that. You will not succeed in trapping me into defending him except that bad as he was, he was not as bad as obumble, probably the worst ever.

Trump will clean things up, the bad things I see the bats saying about him they can't back up. The best they have is that a few of his business ventures failed. You want to see someone who never failed at business? Look at someone who never did much. He is looming as our next pres, still on top of the polls.

Hitlery is slowly sinking, biden won't get in unless she gets out which she won't do until there is no hope at all. She may get the nom but if she gets indicted that is game over. If she keeps sinking, Bernie may beat her. That I would love, him vs trump. You still like the sound of that woofie?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22189418 - 09/04/15 06:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Alright woof

>Regardless of Obama's policies, he is a symbol of a big progressive stride in this country

You asked me for one thing he did that was liberal when you were trying to paint him as a conservative or right winger or something. Now you are telling us he is a "progressive" which means liberal. You are revealing your secret liking for the bum.




I was referring to the fact that he is the first black president. Regardless of his policies, that is a progressive stride. I wasn't saying he was a progressive. If it had been Ben Carson I'd still say it was a progressive stride.

Quote:

I have never said shrub was a good president. I dare you to find a quote where I said that. You will not succeed in trapping me into defending him except that bad as he was, he was not as bad as obumble, probably the worst ever.

Trump will clean things up, the bad things I see the bats saying about him they can't back up. The best they have is that a few of his business ventures failed. You want to see someone who never failed at business? Look at someone who never did much. He is looming as our next pres, still on top of the polls.

Hitlery is slowly sinking, biden won't get in unless she gets out which she won't do until there is no hope at all. She may get the nom but if she gets indicted that is game over. If she keeps sinking, Bernie may beat her. That I would love, him vs trump. You still like the sound of that woofie?




I love the sound of a Bernie vs Trump run at the white house. There is a lot of dirt on Trump, btw, that's not the best they have by a long shot. I am not afraid of Trump beating Bernie. I'm not afraid of Trump beating anyone. Trump is leading in the polls based on his belligerent character, not his policies. Trump vs Sanders in a debate would be no contest. Sanders would call him on all his bullshit. Aside from that, we haven't even begun to see the sort of shit that will come out about Trump. Bernie doesn't have any skeletons in his closet, and I would argue that a guy like Trump does.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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