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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22174348 - 09/01/15 02:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The economy and stock market tanked after obumble took office. No one is saying it was his fault but to say things are a million times better is not only hyperbole but untrue in that things are not actually better now.

They shifted the unemployed into part time jobs along with many of those who formerly had full time jobs. Pay is less and people are hurting. This is 1m times better? Better than being tortured to death maybe. Housing is less affordable and loans are harder to get.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22174378 - 09/01/15 03:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
The economy and stock market tanked after obumble took office. No one is saying it was his fault but to say things are a million times better is not only hyperbole but untrue in that things are not actually better now.

They shifted the unemployed into part time jobs along with many of those who formerly had full time jobs. Pay is less and people are hurting. This is 1m times better? Better than being tortured to death maybe. Housing is less affordable and loans are harder to get.




"things" are never better for everyone.  During every good economic expansion, there were people that didn't do so well.  As usual, you see things in black and white.

When Obama took office, we were having job LOSSES of 600,000 a month.  Bernanke, a Bush appointee, said we came within 2 weeks of total banking insolvency.  Business in most companies had ground to a halt.  Real estate foreclosures were soaring and new sales were non existent. 

Things are MUCH better than that now but not as good as anyone wants.  There are many businesses that are MUCH more healthy than they were at the end of GWB's term and a lot of real estate has regained its value and the job losses have turned to job gains.

And it's still a very slow recovery.  Lots of boomers retiring, technology replacing humans and globalization are all BIG structural obstacles.  And yet, comparatively, the US is doing better than most of the other developed nations economies. 

We have a demand problem in the US and globally.  This problem is fueled by more and more compacting of wealth and profits into fewer  hands which is a long term trend that obama did not turn around.

These problems are complex.  Your motivation is simply to bash obama.  As such, your view is skewed.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
    #22177412 - 09/02/15 09:02 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
You're caught up in the R vs D nonsense and trying to correlate it to economic performance, you're wasting your time.

I'm not a "right winger" or a Republican supporter, I despise them just as much as the D's and their hypocrisy. 

I study economics and markets, I don't give a fuck who's in office, I'm just telling you the deal.

Here's question, has Obama even governed as a liberal Democrat?  The answer is clearly NO, so why are you suggesting there's some type of difference?




All I was saying is, all politics set aside, people are living better now than they were under bush.

I'm not for democrat vs republican politics because as I said before, things are not black or white...

But the rights economic plans threaten to destroy this country...

You study economy, did you read Paul Ryan's "path to prosperity"?

The right want to eliminate all social programs, privatize everything, while freeing big business from corporate regulations., it doesn't matter what you believe, this is a terrible idea.

I was simply pointing out that life is better for everybody now than it was under W. Bush, under W. Bush I saw nearly everybody loose all their money and their homes, and it was only getting worse, today, these same people are doing fine, I don't study economy, but I have my ear to the streets, and can tell most people are far better of now than they were under W. Bush.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22177417 - 09/02/15 09:04 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Orca said
Quote:

Things are MUCH better than that now but not as good as anyone wants




This WAS my point


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
    #22177440 - 09/02/15 09:14 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
You're caught up in the R vs D nonsense and trying to correlate it to economic performance, you're wasting your time.






How so?

If the republicans want to give the wealthy tax cuts, eliminate all social programs, privatize everything, and free corporations from any regulation, it's going to effect economic preformance...

None of that matters any way, All i did was compare the quality of living today VS. The 8 years of W. Bush, put your politics and economic data aside and just look at the people you know and how they are living, then ask yourself, are these people doing better than under W. Bush?

I think they are...


-E. Borodin


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22177641 - 09/02/15 10:41 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>All I was saying is, all politics set aside, people are living better now than they were under bush.

You have not established that at all. Just saying it does not make it so. Things are worse now.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22178905 - 09/02/15 04:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>All I was saying is, all politics set aside, people are living better now than they were under bush.

You have not established that at all. Just saying it does not make it so. Things are worse now.




When Bush left office we were HEMORRHAGING jobs. His economic policy played a serious role in that. Reaganomics broke America.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22179804 - 09/02/15 07:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Who is the heavyweight champion?


--------------------


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22181842 - 09/03/15 06:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>All I was saying is, all politics set aside, people are living better now than they were under bush.

You have not established that at all. Just saying it does not make it so. Things are worse now.




I'm not quoting facts, I'm stating my personal experience.

-E. Borodin


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22182023 - 09/03/15 08:20 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>All I was saying is, all politics set aside, people are living better now than they were under bush.

You have not established that at all. Just saying it does not make it so. Things are worse now.




When Bush left office we were HEMORRHAGING jobs. His economic policy played a serious role in that. Reaganomics broke America.




Slow down there cowboy.

Reaganomics shot America to the top of the world.

What happened is that nothing ever works forever and America failed to adapt in time.


--------------------


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22182379 - 09/03/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Orca said
Quote:

Things are MUCH better than that now but not as good as anyone wants




This WAS my point



Y

YOu do know the market lost 1000-- ONE THOUSAND!  Points last week and is tanking badly?  The reason, the shitty monetary and fiscal policy put in place by the FED--the overspending and borrowing without a sound growing economy is one main reason--the shit policy that was done to make this fool in the white house look good. 

The chickens are coming home to roost--I just hope the full collapse happens on Obama's term.  Oh, but its all bushes fault, right?


--------------------


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Patlal]
    #22182397 - 09/03/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>All I was saying is, all politics set aside, people are living better now than they were under bush.

You have not established that at all. Just saying it does not make it so. Things are worse now.




When Bush left office we were HEMORRHAGING jobs. His economic policy played a serious role in that. Reaganomics broke America.




Slow down there cowboy.

Reaganomics shot America to the top of the world.

What happened is that nothing ever works forever and America failed to adapt in time.




America was the top of the world because the USSR collapsed and China was still 1 billion farmers.

Not because of Reaganomics.


--------------------


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Offlineqman
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22182690 - 09/03/15 11:48 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

qman said:
You're caught up in the R vs D nonsense and trying to correlate it to economic performance, you're wasting your time.






How so?

If the republicans want to give the wealthy tax cuts, eliminate all social programs, privatize everything, and free corporations from any regulation, it's going to effect economic preformance...

None of that matters any way, All i did was compare the quality of living today VS. The 8 years of W. Bush, put your politics and economic data aside and just look at the people you know and how they are living, then ask yourself, are these people doing better than under W. Bush?

I think they are...


-E. Borodin




Things are worse today, we have a lower labor participation rate, we have the same number of jobs as 2007 with a larger population, we have more people on food stamps and disability, we have lower real wages, people have more student and auto debt, home ownership is down significantly, rents are at all-time highs, should I go on?


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Offlineqman
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22182698 - 09/03/15 11:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

qman said:
You're caught up in the R vs D nonsense and trying to correlate it to economic performance, you're wasting your time.

I'm not a "right winger" or a Republican supporter, I despise them just as much as the D's and their hypocrisy. 

I study economics and markets, I don't give a fuck who's in office, I'm just telling you the deal.

Here's question, has Obama even governed as a liberal Democrat?  The answer is clearly NO, so why are you suggesting there's some type of difference?




All I was saying is, all politics set aside, people are living better now than they were under bush.

I'm not for democrat vs republican politics because as I said before, things are not black or white...

But the rights economic plans threaten to destroy this country...

You study economy, did you read Paul Ryan's "path to prosperity"?

The right want to eliminate all social programs, privatize everything, while freeing big business from corporate regulations., it doesn't matter what you believe, this is a terrible idea.

I was simply pointing out that life is better for everybody now than it was under W. Bush, under W. Bush I saw nearly everybody loose all their money and their homes, and it was only getting worse, today, these same people are doing fine, I don't study economy, but I have my ear to the streets, and can tell most people are far better of now than they were under W. Bush.

-E. Borodin




I hate to burst your bubble, but the left and rights economic plans are the SAME behind the scenes.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Patlal]
    #22182929 - 09/03/15 12:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>All I was saying is, all politics set aside, people are living better now than they were under bush.

You have not established that at all. Just saying it does not make it so. Things are worse now.




When Bush left office we were HEMORRHAGING jobs. His economic policy played a serious role in that. Reaganomics broke America.




Slow down there cowboy.

Reaganomics shot America to the top of the world.

What happened is that nothing ever works forever and America failed to adapt in time.




Reagan started us down the path of massive debt in the name of corporate greed. Nothing ever works forever because wealthy interests rework the system. They widdled down banking regulation, and have half the country hypnotized to fight on their behalf. The fact that some poor farmer or fast food worker takes issue eith estate taxes is an example of that! They aren't even aware of things that apply to them, but estate taxes are #1 on their priority list lmao!

Reagans war on drugs and economic policies broke America, and you defend him. Thats fucking sick.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
    #22183125 - 09/03/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

qman said:
You're caught up in the R vs D nonsense and trying to correlate it to economic performance, you're wasting your time.

I'm not a "right winger" or a Republican supporter, I despise them just as much as the D's and their hypocrisy. 

I study economics and markets, I don't give a fuck who's in office, I'm just telling you the deal.

Here's question, has Obama even governed as a liberal Democrat?  The answer is clearly NO, so why are you suggesting there's some type of difference?




All I was saying is, all politics set aside, people are living better now than they were under bush.

I'm not for democrat vs republican politics because as I said before, things are not black or white...

But the rights economic plans threaten to destroy this country...

You study economy, did you read Paul Ryan's "path to prosperity"?

The right want to eliminate all social programs, privatize everything, while freeing big business from corporate regulations., it doesn't matter what you believe, this is a terrible idea.

I was simply pointing out that life is better for everybody now than it was under W. Bush, under W. Bush I saw nearly everybody loose all their money and their homes, and it was only getting worse, today, these same people are doing fine, I don't study economy, but I have my ear to the streets, and can tell most people are far better of now than they were under W. Bush.

-E. Borodin




I hate to burst your bubble, but the left and rights economic plans are the SAME behind the scenes.




No, the status quo's economic plans are the same. Then you have guys like Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Ron and Rand Paul, who have radically different economic agendas.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlineqman
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #22183143 - 09/03/15 01:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Obama had a economic agenda, what difference did it make?  Why do so many fall in love with empty rhetoric?


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman] * 1
    #22183491 - 09/03/15 03:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Obama had a economic agenda, what difference did it make?  Why do so many fall in love with empty rhetoric?




because they are liberals and never learned any better. Look at woof for an example.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #22183536 - 09/03/15 03:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

When I think of the W. Bush years I think of 9/11, hurricane Katrina, a national recession and mortgage crisis, government bailouts, and there was a global recession:

The Great Recession was the general economic decline observed in world markets around the end of the first decade of the 21st century. The exact scale and timing of the recession is debated and varied from country to country.[1][2] In terms of overall impact, the IMF concluded that it was the worst global recession since World War II.[3][4] According to the U.S. National Bureau of Economic Research (the official arbiter of U.S. recessions) the U.S. recession began in December 2007 and ended in June 2009, and thus extended over 19 months.[5] The Great Recession was related to the U.S. financial crisis of 2007–08 and subprime mortgage crisis of 2007–09.-Wikipedia


Things are still a wreck, I'm not saying everything is perfect now, but are you guys really living worse now than under the W. Bush years? And not all of it was Bush's fault, he could not control things like the hurricane, but he really did not handle it as well as he could have...

I suppose I'll drop the topic now, because my opinions regarding it are fairly subjective.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22183539 - 09/03/15 03:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Quote:

qman said:
Obama had a economic agenda, what difference did it make?  Why do so many fall in love with empty rhetoric?




because they are liberals and never learned any better. Look at woof for an example.




Durrrr de durrr librauls!


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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