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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22063310 - 08/08/15 04:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

My argument hasn't changed from the beginning.

I know it's painful for those with BDS to back away from a lost argument, but I have faith that you can do it. Just suck it up. You'll emerge intellectually stronger as a result.

As I said (and will say again if need be)...

Quote:

It was a Bush deal, pure and simple. You'll get over the pain eventually. Not all heroes stand the test of time. Alas, Obama's time ended before it began.

Your hero simply carried out the bidding of a Bush. That's gotta sting. A buffoon leading the way for an even more incompetent buffoon.




--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22063404 - 08/08/15 04:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
My argument hasn't changed from the beginning.

I know it's painful for those with BDS to back away from a lost argument, but I have faith that you can do it. Just suck it up. You'll emerge intellectually stronger as a result.

As I said (and will say again if need be)...

Quote:

It was a Bush deal, pure and simple. You'll get over the pain eventually. Not all heroes stand the test of time. Alas, Obama's time ended before it began.

Your hero simply carried out the bidding of a Bush. That's gotta sting. A buffoon leading the way for an even more incompetent buffoon.







Three questions for you.  Let's see if you have the courage to answer even one of them:

1. Was the US at war in Iraq the day Obama was sworn in as President?
2. Did the US have thousands of combat troops IN COMBAT in 2009/2010?
3. Were American Soldiers killed in combat fighting the Iraq war in 2009/2010.

Cut the bullshit and answer those three simple questions.  Let's see if you have any intellectual integrity at all.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22063445 - 08/08/15 04:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Orca, if you want to say the war that bush negotiated an end to was still raging when Obumble took office, you are right. And if you want to say obumble was still in office when the war ended, on bush's schedule, you are right about that too. Feel better now?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22063468 - 08/08/15 04:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Orca, if you want to say the war that bush negotiated an end to was still raging when Obumble took office, you are right. And if you want to say obumble was still in office when the war ended, on bush's schedule, you are right about that too. Feel better now?




Who did Bush "negotiate" the end of the war with?  LMAO! 

You don't "negotiate" the end of a war with the people on YOUR SIDE.  You either get a surrender or you thoroughly defeat the enemy ... that's how you end a war.  Bush did neither. 

Bush was negotiating an immunity agreement with Maliki and the Iraqi government.  That's hardly the same as ending the war.  It's not even in the same league.

He had a timetable that could have easily been tossed and probably should have as Iraq descended into phase two of a civil war that will surely last for years if not decades.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22063489 - 08/08/15 04:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

All three of those are accurate statements.

And yet...

It was a Bush deal, pure and simple. You'll get over the pain eventually. Not all heroes stand the test of time. Alas, Obama's time ended before it began.

Your hero simply carried out the bidding of a Bush. That's gotta sting. A buffoon leading the way for an even more incompetent buffoon.

No matter how you sugar- coat it, that's how the war ended.

The bullshit is all yours. Apparently, the sting... stings too much.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22063497 - 08/08/15 04:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
All three of those are accurate statements.

And yet...

It was a Bush deal, pure and simple. You'll get over the pain eventually. Not all heroes stand the test of time. Alas, Obama's time ended before it began.

Your hero simply carried out the bidding of a Bush. That's gotta sting. A buffoon leading the way for an even more incompetent buffoon.

No matter how you sugar- coat it, that's how the war ended.

The bullshit is all yours. Apparently, the sting... stings too much.




We agree on one thing ... both GWB and Obama have been ineffective Presidents.  History will rank GWB in the bottom 10% of presidents all time.  Obama will fall somewhere in the middle.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (08/08/15 04:35 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22063513 - 08/08/15 04:37 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Which changes nothing about the fact that:

Quote:

It was a Bush deal, pure and simple. You'll get over the pain eventually. Not all heroes stand the test of time. Alas, Obama's time ended before it began.

Your hero simply carried out the bidding of a Bush. That's gotta sting. A buffoon leading the way for an even more incompetent buffoon.





Nor does it change your inability to argue without resorting to personalisms. Your lack of historical knowledge was bad enough without that.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22063525 - 08/08/15 04:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Obumble will fall, and fall, and fall soon as the media quits covering up for his misdeeds and incompetence. He will rank somewhere down with warren harding and millard filmore.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22063555 - 08/08/15 04:45 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Not all wars are ended via negotiations with the enemy. Did we negotiate an end to the Vietnam war? No. The war is over when we stop fighting it.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22064528 - 08/08/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Not all wars are ended via negotiations with the enemy. Did we negotiate an end to the Vietnam war? No. The war is over when we stop fighting it.




We actually did, then Nixon and Kissinger sabotaged it.


--------------------


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22065991 - 08/09/15 07:45 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:

Nor does it change your inability to argue without resorting to personalisms. Your lack of historical knowledge was bad enough without that.




You're just frustrated because you were proved wrong several times.  You've confused a SOFA which is simply an immunity deal for our troops with ending the war.  W put out a lot of statements and plans for the Iraq war over the years, nearly all of them were wrong.  When he left office, he left two very active wars, neither one payed for, a deficit that was exploding and Obama took over while American soldiers were in active combat in Iraq.  Of course Bush negotiated a SOFA with Maliki ... BFD.  He also decided on an invasion that caused a civil war that continues and was the spark that destabilized the region. 

Your entire argument seems to stem from your notion that I'm a kool aid drinking Obama supporter, which I'm clearly not as I've been very clear on that.  Obama has made more mistakes than could be listed on this forum, but he did take over when the war was still going and he didn't get us into another huge ground war although sending a lot more troops into Afghanistan when he didn't have to could arguably be called a serious escalation of that war.

W was wrong about just about everything concerning the Iraq war and the biggest mistake was his inability to see that their new President would align with Iran which would cause a civil war that shows no signs at all of abating.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22066007 - 08/09/15 07:52 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Proved wrong? I must have missed it. I did notice you repeatedly making a fool of yourself.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22066028 - 08/09/15 08:01 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The Nazis were the first to implement gun control.

-E. Borodin


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22066039 - 08/09/15 08:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

KO, are you telling us obumble ended the Iraq war on his own? The facts are he tried to keep it going but finally went along with shrub's agreement to pull out.

I also notice you ignored the fact that the Vietnam war did not include any negotiated settlement with the enemy, nor have a number of other conflicts. This contradicts your statement that negotiations must be made with the enemy before a war is over. Its over when we pull out.

coin
>The Nazis were the first to implement gun control.

And they had universal health care. Obumble is pushing for several Nazi programs


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22066043 - 08/09/15 08:07 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Proved wrong? I must have missed it. I did notice you repeatedly making a fool of yourself.




You missed a lot including the fact that I have been the most factually critical of Obama in this entire thread.  I laid out nearly 20 specific reasons why he's been ineffective and you resort to silly stuff like calling me by Obama's kid's names ... LOL.  While a lot of you (don't think you did it though) can only offer names of the guy like "Obumble" and vague criticism, I actually laid out what he's done wrong, and it's a lot.  But, the facts remain:

1. Obama ended the Iraq war
2. Obama ran a brilliant campaign to win the White House

Bush repeatedly argued against a timetable and was extremely critical of anyone that asked for one.  He said over and over that facts on the ground would determine the outcome and our strategy and the facts on the ground were that we were in very active combat for a full 2 years after he left office.  2 years is a long time ...


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22066055 - 08/09/15 08:11 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

That's my main issue with the democrats is gun control.

The 2nd amendment was not put in the constitution for hunters, it was put there so if soldiers came into your home your would have equal weaponry to defend yourself, and so that if your government became oppressive you could band together and carry out a revolution with equal arms.

If the masses are disarmed, what chance do they have to defend themselves? If your invaded, or your government is taken by fascists, if your masses have no guns, you have no chance of defending yourselves.

This is part of why Hitler implemented gun control, it was easier for the fascists to have their way if the masses were not armed.


-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22066072 - 08/09/15 08:16 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'm down for programs that help people like health care.

Wernher von Braun invented the V-2 rockets that reigned down on London, he also became the head of nasa after the war, we incorporated a Nazi space program, because it was a good program.

(And if we didnt take the Nazi scientists the Russians would have)

The Nazis did have a few good ideas, and those few good ideas have been incorporated into United states culture.

So just because the Nazis wanted universal health care doesn't mean it's a bad idea...


-E. Borodin
..


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22066079 - 08/09/15 08:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

KO, you seem to think if you ignore something hard enough it will go away and not exist. Both of us have repeatedly pointed out that obumble, my name for him, followed shrub's, my name for him, pullout plan. In what way did obumble end the war? He tried to negotiate a continuance and in fact did send more troops back in and we have some there to this day. Your reasoning is clear as mud on that. One could say the war is ongoing in Iraq but we have pulled out most troops.

What is really comical is your calling him the peace president when everything he has done has been the opposite. Only a true kool aid drinker will say something as silly as that.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22066103 - 08/09/15 08:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
That's my main issue with the democrats is gun control.

The 2nd amendment was not put in the constitution for hunters, it was put there so if soldiers came into your home your would have equal weaponry to defend yourself, and so that if your government became oppressive you could band together and carry out a revolution with equal arms.

If the masses are disarmed, what chance do they have to defend themselves? If your invaded, or your government is taken by fascists, if your masses have no guns, you have no chance of defending yourselves.

This is part of why Hitler implemented gun control, it was easier for the fascists to have their way if the masses were not armed.

-E. Borodin




Our country is very, very different today than in the 1700's.  I think gun control is largely a rural vs. urban issue.  I've lived in NYC, WDC and LA and in 3 much smaller, rural towns.  I live now in a town where 8% have CC permits.  It's no big deal.  But to think about walking around NYC where hundreds of thousands would be carrying concealed weapons ... not so sure about that.

I've got a couple of guns in my home and believe we all have a right to own guns ... the question becomes should a citizen be able to amass an arsenal of weapons, ammo, etc?  And where does it stop?  Should a citizen be able to have mortars, artillery, tanks and missiles?  Why, why not?  What specifically are "arms?"  Obviously there are limits but some would suggest there's nothing wrong with private citizens having attack helicopters with sidewinder missiles. 

We live at a time when over 50%of all adults in America are taking some kind of daily mood medication (depression, anxiety, pain relief, etc.), alcohol addiction is exploding, vaporizers make it easy to be high virtually all day long and caffeine consumption is at an all time high.  We have issues that intersect with the 2nd amendment that have to be considered.  The thought of being surrounded by people carrying loaded weapons while being unable to get through their day without mood pills, alcohol and caffeine kinda concerns me.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22066119 - 08/09/15 08:28 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:

What is really comical is your calling him the peace president when everything he has done has been the opposite. Only a true kool aid drinker will say something as silly as that.




Please provide the exact quote where I call Obama the "Peace President?"

I vehemently disagree with his drone policy and his continuing avoidance of going to Congress for war authorization for our efforts in Yemen, Syria, Libya and Iraq v.3.  I was furious when he sent more troops into Afghanistan. 

You seem determined to argue I'm a Obama kool aid drinker when clearly I'm not, as I've been more critical about Obama in a specific way than you and the other people in this thread COMBINED.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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