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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 2 hours, 19 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22047343 - 08/05/15 01:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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hostileuniverse said: Woofy, you should really read all my posts so I don't have to repeat myself...
But you're right, govt institutions don't NEED to make a profit, that's exactly what makes them so mismanaged... If they needed to show a profit, they would need to stop wasting so much of our money. How someone cannot be bothered by the massive wastes in govt boggle my mind...
I do read your posts, though you're not a particularly enlightened, or enlightening individual. Please refrain from repeating nonsense. Government institutions don't need to make a profit. This notion is silly. If they are making a profit it's just another form of taxation, as we already pay them (via taxes) for their services.
Let me clear this up a bit. The Postal Service does produce a surplus, but even if it didn't, it serves a purpose. There are areas in this country that are so rural that the post office must take a loss just to deliver to them. However, it is necessary service in our country to have mail delivered, so they do it at a loss. This is not 'poor management'.
Why don't you re-read my post, and make a fucking argument on the issues I mentioned. You spout a lot of bullshit right-wing talking points and don't back them up. At least utilize the many conspiracy theories that your right wing brethren have provided you to argue your points, or the libertarian dribble that attempts to intellectually defend the indefensible.
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hostileuniverse said: If Obamacare is so great, why does Planned Butcherhood still need 500 million of taxpayer funding???
While it's still early in the implementation of Dodd/frank, the negative effects are almost certain to come to light eventually, the last time a banking regulation this massive was launched, it took over ten years for it to collapse the housing markets...
And guess what Barney is doing now? Working for a New York bank helping them navigate a vicious law HE wrote!
Planned Parenthood is doing us all a service by providing contraception to people who can't afford babies, so they don't end up on welfare. It is a fiscally responsible program. Also, I would like to see a reference to support this claim that half a billion dollars goes to Planned Parenthood. I'm not saying it isn't true, but that sounds a bit outlandish to me.
Dodd Frank has been around for a very very long time. When we got rid of the banking regulations they started to act irresponsibly. I thought you were for putting restraints on big banking institutions? I thought you supported going so far as breaking them up!
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the last time a banking regulation this massive was launched, it took over ten years for it to collapse the housing markets...
I find this line in particular quite comical. Regulating banks had NOTHING to do with the collapse. Quite the contrary, my friend. We had strong banking regulations for a good 50 years, and Republicans slowly eroded those safety measures away as favors to their banking buddies and campaign financiers. Now we have to scramble to put them back in place.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22047352 - 08/05/15 01:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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hostileuniverse said:
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paperbackwriter said: Planned Butcherhood lmao. 97% of what they do isn't even abortions and that 3% that is isn't supported by taxpayer funding.
And if you really want to know why Planned Parenthood is so badly needed look at that stupid fucking Hobby Lobby ruling.
The right wants women barefoot, pregnant, and uneducated so they have cheap labor and strong voter turnout. Shit isn't rocket science.
So if the tax money is paying their employees, rent and utilities, then PP has more money to fund abortions. See? It's not rocket science, is it?
The right has elected as many, if not more, women and minorities to positions of power has the left has. That's a fact. The left hates them for it... You're whole last statement is rediculous...
Again, it's 3%. If there was concern that non-abortion money was going to fund abortions the right could push that they stop offering them. Instead they want to cut the whole program which many people depend on for parenting advice, cancer screenings, birth control, std checks, etc. etc. It's a major health service that serves both men and women.
The right isn't after planned parenthood because of abortions.
As to your other comment prove it. Because everything I've managed to pull up in the last few minutes points to you being full of shit.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/want-more-women-in-office-look-to-republicans-20150114
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22047375 - 08/05/15 01:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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hostileuniverse said:
bush fulfilled some of his campaign promises too, do you admire him for that too???
GWB will be remembered for:
1. 9/11 attacks happened on his watch 2. Invading Iraq based on faulty intelligence and spending trillions on it and disrupting the balance of power in the Middle East and installing a leader (Maliki) that quickly sided with Iran. 3. The economic collapse in his last year 4. Katrina disaster relief response debacle 5. Massive tax cuts during 2 wars that generated enormous deficits
These 5 "achievements" will insure he is rated as the worst president of the modern era and maybe of all time.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22047380 - 08/05/15 01:10 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's locally. Internationally he's thought of as a war criminal.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 2 hours, 19 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22047399 - 08/05/15 01:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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How about leaving office with a $1.3 Deficit. Obama's on track to leave office with a $0 Deficit, just like, oh, I dunno... Clinton. Who is fiscally responsible again?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22047407 - 08/05/15 01:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said: How about leaving office with a $1.3 Deficit. Obama's on track to leave office with a $0 Deficit, just like, oh, I dunno... Clinton. Who is fiscally responsible again?
We could also add that GWB pushed huge banking DE-regulation even in the wake of the repeal of Glass Steagall under Clinton/Newt so instead of beefing up oversight, he took it away and BRAGGED about it which is a major contributing cause of the 08/09 collapse.
GWB was a disaster ... like a giant bungee jump for America.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 2 hours, 19 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22047476 - 08/05/15 01:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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KauaiOrca said:
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Bigbadwooof said: How about leaving office with a $1.3 Deficit. Obama's on track to leave office with a $0 Deficit, just like, oh, I dunno... Clinton. Who is fiscally responsible again?
We could also add that GWB pushed huge banking DE-regulation even in the wake of the repeal of Glass Steagall under Clinton/Newt so instead of beefing up oversight, he took it away and BRAGGED about it which is a major contributing cause of the 08/09 collapse.
GWB was a disaster ... like a giant bungee jump for America.
Right. In short, I think people need to stop making me defend Obama, unless they're willing to endorse everything Bush did. Obama is a poor representation of liberal values, no matter how many times right wing half-whits call him a 'socialist'.
The greatest blunders that Obama has made are actually right-wing style policies.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (08/05/15 01:41 PM)
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 4 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22047532 - 08/05/15 01:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said: How about leaving office with a $1.3 Deficit. Obama's on track to leave office with a $0 Deficit, just like, oh, I dunno... Clinton. Who is fiscally responsible again?
Dude, don't spread misinformation. Since Obama has been in office, how much debt (from yearly deficits) did he add? http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/01/07/the-story-behind-obama-and-the-national-debt-in-7-charts/
"Since Obama took office, the national debt has increased $7.4 TRILLION, on January 20, 2009, it stood at $10.6 trillion." This is from January of this year, so by the time Obama leaves office he will have added a huge chuck of total debt (45%) in just 8 years.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22047561 - 08/05/15 02:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said:
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qman said: "people with high level of education are more liberal"
That's total bullshit, some might think they are liberal but they're not. I lived in one of the wealthiest counties in NJ for several decades, the people that lived there were some of the most educated people in the US.
The election results were usually 60% Republican and 40% Democrat, and I can tell you those 40% were NOT liberal at all.
Not all educated people are wealthy. Wealthy people are Republicans, because Republicans fuck the little guy, not the wealthy lmao! If I were a self serving, educated, wealthy person, I would vote Republican too!
I'm not just speculating, or speaking anecdotally. That's why Republicans put up such fucking retarded candidates, several of whom are even likely to have committed criminal acts, like Chris Christie and Rick Perry. They don't care, their voters are too fucking stupid to pay attention. Michelle Bachman can't even formulate a coherent sentence, and that dumb bitch got elected!!! lmao She makes Sarah Palin look like Stephen Hawking.
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When viewed in the context of educational attainment alone, without also examining income level, the blog authors concluded that high school graduates are more Republican than non-high school graduates. But after that, the groups with more education tended to vote more Democratic. At the very highest education level tabulated in the survey, voters with postgraduate degrees leaned toward the Democrats.
http://www.politifact.com/georgia/statements/2012/nov/05/larry-sabato/education-level-tied-voting-tendencies/
I know those types of people, the white highly educated person that lives in a high wealth community that THINKS they are "liberal", I got a word for them-phonies!!
Ask them to live in a culturally diverse area, that's when the panic kicks in.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
#22047584 - 08/05/15 02:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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qman said:
"Since Obama took office, the national debt has increased $7.4 TRILLION, on January 20, 2009, it stood at $10.6 trillion." This is from January of this year, so by the time Obama leaves office he will have added a huge chuck of total debt (45%) in just 8 years.
I am anything but an Obama fan, believe me. I disagree with him on almost everything. But honestly, pinning all of that debt on Obama is total and complete BULLSHIT. He took over with two unfunded wars, tax cuts that were exploding the budget and an economy that was shedding over 600,000 jobs a month. The stock market dropped from 14,000 to 6,600!
The country was in total crisis while we were fighting two very expensive wars.
GWB must be credited with a lot of that debt. GWB, on the other hand, took over when the country was running a surplus and he was in a position to pay down the debt, instead, we know what happened.
Obama is far from being disciplined on fiscal policy ... FAR FROM IT. But at least half of that debt that was added under his watch must be credited to GWB if you want to claim any intellectual integrity at all.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 2 hours, 19 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
#22047617 - 08/05/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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qman said:
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Bigbadwooof said:
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qman said: "people with high level of education are more liberal"
That's total bullshit, some might think they are liberal but they're not. I lived in one of the wealthiest counties in NJ for several decades, the people that lived there were some of the most educated people in the US.
The election results were usually 60% Republican and 40% Democrat, and I can tell you those 40% were NOT liberal at all.
Not all educated people are wealthy. Wealthy people are Republicans, because Republicans fuck the little guy, not the wealthy lmao! If I were a self serving, educated, wealthy person, I would vote Republican too!
I'm not just speculating, or speaking anecdotally. That's why Republicans put up such fucking retarded candidates, several of whom are even likely to have committed criminal acts, like Chris Christie and Rick Perry. They don't care, their voters are too fucking stupid to pay attention. Michelle Bachman can't even formulate a coherent sentence, and that dumb bitch got elected!!! lmao She makes Sarah Palin look like Stephen Hawking.
Quote:
When viewed in the context of educational attainment alone, without also examining income level, the blog authors concluded that high school graduates are more Republican than non-high school graduates. But after that, the groups with more education tended to vote more Democratic. At the very highest education level tabulated in the survey, voters with postgraduate degrees leaned toward the Democrats.
http://www.politifact.com/georgia/statements/2012/nov/05/larry-sabato/education-level-tied-voting-tendencies/
I know those types of people, the white highly educated person that lives in a high wealth community that THINKS they are "liberal", I got a word for them-phonies!!
Ask them to live in a culturally diverse area, that's when the panic kicks in. 
I didn't say that he will be leaving office with no debt. I said that he will be leaving office having brought our country back into balance. Obama will likely have a balanced budget by 2016.
Other than that, I think KO pretty much hit the nail on the head. Talk about fiscally irresponsible, GWB took a booming economy with a surplus and did a 180. You couldn't have fucked our country more if you intended to.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 4 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22047619 - 08/05/15 02:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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KauaiOrca said:
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qman said:
"Since Obama took office, the national debt has increased $7.4 TRILLION, on January 20, 2009, it stood at $10.6 trillion." This is from January of this year, so by the time Obama leaves office he will have added a huge chuck of total debt (45%) in just 8 years.
I am anything but an Obama fan, believe me. I disagree with him on almost everything. But honestly, pinning all of that debt on Obama is total and complete BULLSHIT. He took over with two unfunded wars, tax cuts that were exploding the budget and an economy that was shedding over 600,000 jobs a month. The stock market dropped from 14,000 to 6,600!
The country was in total crisis while we were fighting two very expensive wars.
GWB must be credited with a lot of that debt. GWB, on the other hand, took over when the country was running a surplus and he was in a position to pay down the debt, instead, we know what happened.
Obama is far from being disciplined on fiscal policy ... FAR FROM IT. But at least half of that debt that was added under his watch must be credited to GWB if you want to claim any intellectual integrity at all.
I never blame or give credit to a US President in regards to the debt/deficit, it makes no sense because it's literally out of his control.
It just seems so many like to point to these statistics and imply that correlation is causation when in reality it really isn't, but the people that engage in those generalizations are political, they don't really understand the true economics about those numbers.
So I agree with you, Obama has NOTHING to do with those numbers, the same with Bush, it's more complicated than whether a R or D is in office.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
#22047644 - 08/05/15 02:22 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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qman said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
qman said:
"Since Obama took office, the national debt has increased $7.4 TRILLION, on January 20, 2009, it stood at $10.6 trillion." This is from January of this year, so by the time Obama leaves office he will have added a huge chuck of total debt (45%) in just 8 years.
I am anything but an Obama fan, believe me. I disagree with him on almost everything. But honestly, pinning all of that debt on Obama is total and complete BULLSHIT. He took over with two unfunded wars, tax cuts that were exploding the budget and an economy that was shedding over 600,000 jobs a month. The stock market dropped from 14,000 to 6,600!
The country was in total crisis while we were fighting two very expensive wars.
GWB must be credited with a lot of that debt. GWB, on the other hand, took over when the country was running a surplus and he was in a position to pay down the debt, instead, we know what happened.
Obama is far from being disciplined on fiscal policy ... FAR FROM IT. But at least half of that debt that was added under his watch must be credited to GWB if you want to claim any intellectual integrity at all.
I never blame or give credit to a US President in regards to the debt/deficit, it makes no sense because it's literally out of his control.
It just seems so many like to point to these statistics and imply that correlation is causation when in reality it really isn't, but the people that engage in those generalizations are political, they don't really understand the true economics about those numbers.
So I agree with you, Obama has NOTHING to do with those numbers, the same with Bush, it's more complicated than whether a R or D is in office.
GWB started two lengthy wars, enacted some huge tax cuts and failed to regulate the biggest change in banking laws of the century. I think he deserves some of the credit/blame for the debt that has been racked up over the last 14 years.
I think it was absolutely insane for him to cut taxes for the wealthy while he had those two very expensive wars going. He should have cut taxes for everyone under 100K and increased taxes by a lot on income over $250,000 as a temporary war tax IMHO ... but he didn't.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22047692 - 08/05/15 02:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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KauaiOrca said:
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Stonehenge said: >If you have a set of principles you think the Democrats campaign on, please list them.
What difference does it make what they campaign on? Obumble promised everything under the sun and did none of it. You seem to want to hear a bunch of lies. The dems have done all the things you blame on gop. Vote third party if you want to make a difference.
Obama, who I am not a fan of at all, campaigned that:
1) He would pass a big reform of our health insurance system and help insure millions that did not have it. 2) That he would end the Iraq war 3) That he would end the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest 4) That he would support banking reform (Dodd-Frank)
These were his main big campaign promises. We can argue endlessly whether he did these reforms well or not and I disagree with him on much, but I certainly acknowledge that he delivered what he promised.
You think he delivered? The only thing he actually did was force obumblecare on us. The result being that most new jobs are part time now to escape the requirements of the law. The website never worked right and the bill for all that crap is coming in.
>2) That he would end the Iraq war
He did not end the Iraq war, you need to quit drinking that left wing rotgut and take a look at reality. Fighting continues in Iraq, our troops are still there, isis and al Qaida are running rampant and you say the war is over?
>3) That he would end the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest
I see no evidence of that
>4) That he would support banking reform (Dodd-Frank)
None of that has taken place. Maybe he made a speech about it, if that is your standard of accomplishment then shrub did a ton of things. Every speech was an accomplishment.
You also "forgot" his promise to close guantanamao. Before you bleat that congress wouldn't let him, he never asked to close it. Promise broken among many others.
He said he would go easy on medical pot and pot in general. Instead, he cracked down like hell, appointed that nasty bitch to the dea who openly said she would not follow his suggestions but would instead crack down even harder and she did.
He did not turn the economy around, instead, he spent all those trillions on handouts for banks and big business like gm who promptly outsourced their production moving jobs overseas. Participation in the workforce is at its lowest level in decades.
He put no bankers in jail at all despite their crimes. He put lots of sick people in jail for using pot and cut off their sources of supply but no bankers.
You have drunk the kool aid, KO.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 2 hours, 19 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22047816 - 08/05/15 02:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
qman said:
"Since Obama took office, the national debt has increased $7.4 TRILLION, on January 20, 2009, it stood at $10.6 trillion." This is from January of this year, so by the time Obama leaves office he will have added a huge chuck of total debt (45%) in just 8 years.
I am anything but an Obama fan, believe me. I disagree with him on almost everything. But honestly, pinning all of that debt on Obama is total and complete BULLSHIT. He took over with two unfunded wars, tax cuts that were exploding the budget and an economy that was shedding over 600,000 jobs a month. The stock market dropped from 14,000 to 6,600!
The country was in total crisis while we were fighting two very expensive wars.
GWB must be credited with a lot of that debt. GWB, on the other hand, took over when the country was running a surplus and he was in a position to pay down the debt, instead, we know what happened.
Obama is far from being disciplined on fiscal policy ... FAR FROM IT. But at least half of that debt that was added under his watch must be credited to GWB if you want to claim any intellectual integrity at all.
I never blame or give credit to a US President in regards to the debt/deficit, it makes no sense because it's literally out of his control.
It just seems so many like to point to these statistics and imply that correlation is causation when in reality it really isn't, but the people that engage in those generalizations are political, they don't really understand the true economics about those numbers.
So I agree with you, Obama has NOTHING to do with those numbers, the same with Bush, it's more complicated than whether a R or D is in office.
GWB started two lengthy wars, enacted some huge tax cuts and failed to regulate the biggest change in banking laws of the century. I think he deserves some of the credit/blame for the debt that has been racked up over the last 14 years.
I think it was absolutely insane for him to cut taxes for the wealthy while he had those two very expensive wars going. He should have cut taxes for everyone under 100K and increased taxes by a lot on income over $250,000 as a temporary war tax IMHO ... but he didn't.

Of course a president has an effect on government spending. What a ludicrous statement! lol
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 4 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22047885 - 08/05/15 02:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
qman said:
"Since Obama took office, the national debt has increased $7.4 TRILLION, on January 20, 2009, it stood at $10.6 trillion." This is from January of this year, so by the time Obama leaves office he will have added a huge chuck of total debt (45%) in just 8 years.
I am anything but an Obama fan, believe me. I disagree with him on almost everything. But honestly, pinning all of that debt on Obama is total and complete BULLSHIT. He took over with two unfunded wars, tax cuts that were exploding the budget and an economy that was shedding over 600,000 jobs a month. The stock market dropped from 14,000 to 6,600!
The country was in total crisis while we were fighting two very expensive wars.
GWB must be credited with a lot of that debt. GWB, on the other hand, took over when the country was running a surplus and he was in a position to pay down the debt, instead, we know what happened.
Obama is far from being disciplined on fiscal policy ... FAR FROM IT. But at least half of that debt that was added under his watch must be credited to GWB if you want to claim any intellectual integrity at all.
I never blame or give credit to a US President in regards to the debt/deficit, it makes no sense because it's literally out of his control.
It just seems so many like to point to these statistics and imply that correlation is causation when in reality it really isn't, but the people that engage in those generalizations are political, they don't really understand the true economics about those numbers.
So I agree with you, Obama has NOTHING to do with those numbers, the same with Bush, it's more complicated than whether a R or D is in office.
GWB started two lengthy wars, enacted some huge tax cuts and failed to regulate the biggest change in banking laws of the century. I think he deserves some of the credit/blame for the debt that has been racked up over the last 14 years.
I think it was absolutely insane for him to cut taxes for the wealthy while he had those two very expensive wars going. He should have cut taxes for everyone under 100K and increased taxes by a lot on income over $250,000 as a temporary war tax IMHO ... but he didn't.

Of course a president has an effect on government spending. What a ludicrous statement! lol
Congress passes the spending budget and revenue is highly contingent on economic activity beyond the control of any one person.
Should Clinton be given tons of credit for the excess revenue from capital gains that resulted from the Nasdaq tech bubble that ultimately crashed when he left office?
Should Bush and Obama be blamed for the joblessness that result from NAFTA and China being accepted in the WTO that occurred when Clinton was in office?
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
#22047971 - 08/05/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
You think he delivered? The only thing he actually did was force obumblecare on us. The result being that most new jobs are part time now to escape the requirements of the law. The website never worked right and the bill for all that crap is coming in.
I said at least 3 different times I'm no Obama fan and feel no reason to defend him or his record and don't think he executed well on many things. He did, however, delivery on his primary campaign promises. There is no doubt about that. Did he deliver well or as you would have liked? That's another argument entirely.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 2 hours, 19 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
#22048030 - 08/05/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: Congress passes the spending budget and revenue is highly contingent on economic activity beyond the control of any one person.
Should Clinton be given tons of credit for the excess revenue from capital gains that resulted from the Nasdaq tech bubble that ultimately crashed when he left office?
Should Bush and Obama be blamed for the joblessness that result from NAFTA and China being accepted in the WTO that occurred when Clinton was in office?
Of course Obama and Bush shouldn't be blamed for the mistakes of their predecessors. You're the one trying to pin Bush's mistakes on Obama.
KO clearly explained the effect a president has on spending. Don't act as if the president has no bearing on government spending, that's silly. Sure he doesn't control every single aspect of the economy, nobody would argue that.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22048051 - 08/05/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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>I said at least 3 different times I'm no Obama fan and feel no reason to defend him or his record
And yet you do, constantly.
>He did, however, delivery on his primary campaign promises
He did not end the Iraq war as you claim, the war rages on with no end in sight and more servicemen being killed and more of our trillions going down the drain. He did not close guantanamo or do many other things he promised. You ignore reality and proclaim a falsehood. There is just no arguing with the kool aid drinkers. You would probably vote for him a third time if you could.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 4 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22048093 - 08/05/15 03:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said:
You think he delivered? The only thing he actually did was force obumblecare on us. The result being that most new jobs are part time now to escape the requirements of the law. The website never worked right and the bill for all that crap is coming in.
I said at least 3 different times I'm no Obama fan and feel no reason to defend him or his record and don't think he executed well on many things. He did, however, delivery on his primary campaign promises. There is no doubt about that. Did he deliver well or as you would have liked? That's another argument entirely.
You defend Obama to no end and rationalize every ill from his administration, I think it's more than a hatred of Republican polices, you truly buy into the cool aid.
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