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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
#22027438 - 08/01/15 09:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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TPP sounds good to me from what I've read of it.
It's not like cutting funds to planned parenthood over federal abortion funding (shit that's not happening) or pretending climate change doesn't exist.
*edit* Granted I'm not a fan of Hillary. I think she's corrupt as fuck and covering shit up in this whole email fiasco.
Go Bernie!
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
Edited by paperbackwriter (08/01/15 09:14 AM)
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22027498 - 08/01/15 09:34 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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>A third party may make shit worse.
A dem or gop WILL make things worse.
> TPP sounds good to me from what I've read of it.
You are very naïve.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Last seen: 2 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22027542 - 08/01/15 09:49 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: TPP sounds good to me from what I've read of it.
I'm totally speechless, you have no credibility at all. How old are you?
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
#22027644 - 08/01/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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TPP = final straw to complete the globalism agenda. More access to cheaper labor in exchange for cheaper products.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 7 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22027650 - 08/01/15 10:25 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said: TPP = final straw to complete the globalism agenda. More access to cheaper labor in exchange for cheaper products.
Which, in the end, is all we've ever wanted as consumers.
--------------------
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Patlal]
#22027666 - 08/01/15 10:31 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said: TPP = final straw to complete the globalism agenda. More access to cheaper labor in exchange for cheaper products.
Which, in the end, is all we've ever wanted as consumers.
If the consumer was still able to have a job that pays enough, which turns out is not the case.
The argument that US citizens benefit from the shipping of jobs out of the US to import cheap goods left the table a LONG TIME ago.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Patlal]
#22027996 - 08/01/15 11:29 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said: TPP = final straw to complete the globalism agenda. More access to cheaper labor in exchange for cheaper products.
Which, in the end, is all we've ever wanted as consumers.
Maybe as a collective whole, but there are many that see the problems with this and would much rather have a holistic economy and healthy communities, jobs and budgets to do important stuff than cheap TV's from China.
The dumb clueless majority makes a lot of bone head decisions for the country.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: qman]
#22028003 - 08/01/15 11:31 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said: TPP = final straw to complete the globalism agenda. More access to cheaper labor in exchange for cheaper products.
Which, in the end, is all we've ever wanted as consumers.
If the consumer was still able to have a job that pays enough, which turns out is not the case.
The argument that US citizens benefit from the shipping of jobs out of the US to import cheap goods left the table a LONG TIME ago.
Couldn't agree more. Our country needs a few things:
1. Separation of corporation and state 2. Energy independence, at least for the Americas 3. Regional job independence 4. Regional food independence 5. Regional debt independence
This global interdependency where global corporate predatory viruses infect everything is a big hurdle for our species to ovecome.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 23 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Patlal]
#22029242 - 08/01/15 04:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said: TPP = final straw to complete the globalism agenda. More access to cheaper labor in exchange for cheaper products.
Which, in the end, is all we've ever wanted as consumers.
If I lived in a 3rd world country, I'd be all for free trade! It means jobs for low wage workers in impoverished nations. Even your precious Donald Trump understands that globalization and free trade agreements are destroying America.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 23 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22029253 - 08/01/15 04:11 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said: TPP = final straw to complete the globalism agenda. More access to cheaper labor in exchange for cheaper products.
Which, in the end, is all we've ever wanted as consumers.
If the consumer was still able to have a job that pays enough, which turns out is not the case.
The argument that US citizens benefit from the shipping of jobs out of the US to import cheap goods left the table a LONG TIME ago.
Couldn't agree more. Our country needs a few things:
1. Separation of corporation and state 2. Energy independence, at least for the Americas 3. Regional job independence 4. Regional food independence 5. Regional debt independence
This global interdependency where global corporate predatory viruses infect everything is a big hurdle for our species to ovecome.
So you're an isolationist? I think the problem, honestly, is Capitalism. If it weren't for Capitalism our government might stop subsidizing expensive energy sources, and put that money into research for nuclear fusion. The rest would also follow.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (08/01/15 04:13 PM)
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22029657 - 08/01/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
TPP sounds good to me from what I've read of it.
Good? If you like raw, unfettered corporate power, it's absolutely fan-fucking-tastic!!
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 23 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: zorbman]
#22029972 - 08/01/15 06:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said:
Quote:
TPP sounds good to me from what I've read of it.
Good? If you like raw, unfettered corporate power, it's absolutely fan-fucking-tastic!!
The TPP will not only allow corporations to sue the government for infringing on their 'right to earn a profit in America' (This includes foreign companies), but it will send American jobs down the river just like NAFTA and CAFTA.
Metaphorically speaking, especially at this crucial point in history, it is like being fucked in the ass by the monopoly man without any lube, while he beats you over the head with his money bag.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22030280 - 08/01/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, I put my foot in my mouth earlier.
On the bright side it's been enlightening.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22032556 - 08/02/15 09:30 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
So you're an isolationist? I think the problem, honestly, is Capitalism. If it weren't for Capitalism our government might stop subsidizing expensive energy sources, and put that money into research for nuclear fusion. The rest would also follow.
I'm not really an isolationist, but this ultra dependency on a massive global system makes us all way to vulnerable. I completely agree with you that Capitalism, or what I think of a PREDATORY capitalism is the problem. The idea that we put commodities on a ship, burn thousands and thousand of gallons of fuel to ship them to China who then, with near slave labor, turns it into poor quality shit that they put back on a boat, burn thousands of gallons more and get it back here then the fuel to get it into local markets ... it's so incredibly wasteful just to tap into slave labor prices to keep costs down. I hate that shit.
I'd like to see a lot more of an effort to manufacture much more of what people need at the local level, grow the food that communities need at the local level and realize that JOBS generated at the local level with a regional commitment to producing and consuming products and saying NO to slave labor markets is the way to build our country.
I've got nothing against trade but I have a lot of problems with predatory capitalism.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 23 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22033324 - 08/02/15 12:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
So you're an isolationist? I think the problem, honestly, is Capitalism. If it weren't for Capitalism our government might stop subsidizing expensive energy sources, and put that money into research for nuclear fusion. The rest would also follow.
I'm not really an isolationist, but this ultra dependency on a massive global system makes us all way to vulnerable. I completely agree with you that Capitalism, or what I think of a PREDATORY capitalism is the problem. The idea that we put commodities on a ship, burn thousands and thousand of gallons of fuel to ship them to China who then, with near slave labor, turns it into poor quality shit that they put back on a boat, burn thousands of gallons more and get it back here then the fuel to get it into local markets ... it's so incredibly wasteful just to tap into slave labor prices to keep costs down. I hate that shit.
I'd like to see a lot more of an effort to manufacture much more of what people need at the local level, grow the food that communities need at the local level and realize that JOBS generated at the local level with a regional commitment to producing and consuming products and saying NO to slave labor markets is the way to build our country.
I've got nothing against trade but I have a lot of problems with predatory capitalism.
Ok, I agree with you on all of that. The US's dependence on oil makes us vulnerable more than terrorism ever has. I like the idea of community based coops, and community based utilities. There are many cities in the US who have bought out their electrical/internet utility companies and made them public. It has driven the cost down sharply. I also like the idea of community farming, or community owned land where people can grow their own crops. A friend in Portugal was telling me that he is doing this. The government there provides them with a small piece of land, and tools/equipment to grow crops. If they don't use it within a certain period of time, it gets taken away.
If I had your level of business know-how, I would try to start a worker cooperative. I still might, if I find myself in a position to do so.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22036868 - 08/03/15 09:59 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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http://thinkprogress.org/election/2015/08/02/3687090/donald-trump-black-lives-matter-police/
"Asked about growing concerns (Blacklivesmatter) over police brutality toward black Americans, Trump said on Sunday that more power should be given to the police"
I went to a social party this weekend, lots of Trump supporters out there.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22036954 - 08/03/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
If I had your level of business know-how, I would try to start a worker cooperative. I still might, if I find myself in a position to do so.
I have a lot of friends and family that are really committed to the local first economy movement and it's making some headway. The very ugly truth, however, is that corporations own our government ... military contractors, energy, pharma and food corporations run the show and our government is just a PR show for the masses.
I don't know how to change this. I find it very frustrating at the national level. I can shop at Farmer's markets and try to get stuff locally ... but, at some point, that all breaks down unless you want to live off the grid and go for a very, very simple existence. I like to travel and also like some elements of technology.
I would love, just once in my life, to see one candidate I really believe in but am fearful this is just another election where I'm going to want to vote none of the above.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22037227 - 08/03/15 11:29 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Kuaoi, vote third party, it does make a difference.
qman >"Asked about growing concerns (Blacklivesmatter) over police brutality toward black Americans, Trump said on Sunday that more power should be given to the police"
Can he win without any minority votes with all dems and liberals against him? Plus of course the media campaigning against him constantly. Would he settle for sec of state for his support like hitlerly did?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
#22037327 - 08/03/15 11:54 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Kuaoi, vote third party, it does make a difference.
qman >"Asked about growing concerns (Blacklivesmatter) over police brutality toward black Americans, Trump said on Sunday that more power should be given to the police"
Can he win without any minority votes with all dems and liberals against him? Plus of course the media campaigning against him constantly. Would he settle for sec of state for his support like hitlerly did?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/03/shock-poll-latinos-really-dislike-donald-trump/
Hispanics don't like him, but they weren't going to vote for him anyways. They vote for whoever promises the biggest freebies. They're not really a sophisticated group of voters.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: So Trump started off badly but he's making more sense every day... [Re: Stonehenge]
#22037348 - 08/03/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Kuaoi, vote third party, it does make a difference.
At the Presidential level, it really doesn't. It hasn't made any impact at all for decades. Locally, sometimes it can though.
My state will go for the democrat at the presidential level, it doesn't make any difference what I do.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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