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Gr0wer
always improving


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,056
Loc: El Paso, TX
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Blue Oyster basement farm [Re: farmerb]
#21912879 - 07/08/15 12:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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One commercial application where i have seen the misters they sprayed downwards between the isles, so only the fine drifting mist would hit the mushrooms. A majority of the water goes directly to the floor where it will evaporate. And those foggers would only need a minute or two every few hours to keep puddling down. Some water valve timers do go down to 1-2 min increments, just not all. I would definitely integrate a filter into that mister unit to reduce clogged nozzles.
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Gr0wer
always improving


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,056
Loc: El Paso, TX
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Have you been supplementing your straw at all? If you haven't, possibly look into sourcing some horse poo and try 10-20% for bigger yeilds in the same space.
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cArcace-x
YeAh!!



Registered: 10/17/13
Posts: 2,412
Loc: The Simulator
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Re: Blue Oyster basement farm [Re: Gr0wer]
#21914906 - 07/08/15 12:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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or chicken manure in the soak and pasteurisation water
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Dhearic


Registered: 01/24/14
Posts: 846
Loc: Neverland
Last seen: 9 months, 4 days
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Re: Blue Oyster basement farm [Re: cArcace-x]
#21917331 - 07/08/15 10:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So this is where the cool kids share their edible secrets. Very nice setup 
I've been looking into buying a fogger for myself and was trying to decide between the 3 and 5 disk unit. A misting setup doesn't seem practical for my small setup and my store bought humidifier has to be refilled too often.
I found a cheap source for sawdust, have you tried sawdust bags vs straw logs? I'd think you could pack more of em into the same amount of space for higher total yields.
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Credit where credit is due.
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moonlightmushrooms
farmur

Registered: 05/10/14
Posts: 214
Loc: canada
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Blue Oyster basement farm [Re: Dhearic]
#21920159 - 07/09/15 02:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
farmerb said: I would stay away from those low pressure misters. It will leave your mushrooms over-saturated and a lot of standing water. As far as the B.E. maybe try another strain or higher spawn rate.
Quote:
Gr0wer said: One commercial application where i have seen the misters they sprayed downwards between the isles, so only the fine drifting mist would hit the mushrooms. A majority of the water goes directly to the floor where it will evaporate. And those foggers would only need a minute or two every few hours to keep puddling down. Some water valve timers do go down to 1-2 min increments, just not all. I would definitely integrate a filter into that mister unit to reduce clogged nozzles.
I read the best is to use a brass nozzle mister with a high psi pre-pump to get the mist as fine as possible. Right now we get condensation using the ultrasonic so I'm not too worried about a little water on the floor.
Our water is pre-filtered with a 10 micron whole home filter, which is great for no sediment clogging but bad for bacterial growth since the chlorine is removed.
Quote:
Gr0wer said: Have you been supplementing your straw at all? If you haven't, possibly look into sourcing some horse poo and try 10-20% for bigger yields in the same space.
We're going for certified organic, so the fewer ingredients in our mix the easier it is. Right now we're using, organic rye and coffee as our grain spawn into organic lime soaked straw. We're hoping our gypsum experiments will bare more fruit. Does the hpoo need to be sterilized or just pasteurized?
Quote:
Dhearic said:

So this is where the cool kids share their edible secrets. Very nice setup 
I've been looking into buying a fogger for myself and was trying to decide between the 3 and 5 disk unit. A misting setup doesn't seem practical for my small setup and my store bought humidifier has to be refilled too often.
I found a cheap source for sawdust, have you tried sawdust bags vs straw logs? I'd think you could pack more of em into the same amount of space for higher total yields.
Everything I've read says sawdust is better, we use straw because our farmer grows all organic and most commercial sawdust trees here a heavily sprayed with insecticides and herbicides.
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knomadic_niki
A mile high



Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 1,275
Loc: 6200' Colorado
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Quote:
moonlightmushrooms said:
Everything I've read says sawdust is better, we use straw because our farmer grows all organic and most commercial sawdust trees here a heavily sprayed with insecticides and herbicides.
sawdust trees? source? pretty sure they don't spray commercial tree farms
-------------------- My trade list In search of sporeless oyster cultures
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Gr0wer
always improving


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,056
Loc: El Paso, TX
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Horse, cow, or chicken poo only needs to be pasteurized but heat pasteurized not lime. Once thing with adding poo is you need to watch your colonization temps as they will be higher with all the nitrogen. If you're really trying to be "green" and "organic" lime pasteurization is not good for the environment especially on large scale. You have a lot of toxic runoff in the form of high PH water. All that water eventually returns to the ground via a sewer plant or cesspool. Have you considered going to hot water bath? If you have a hot water heater that goes to 150-160 that should be all you need for a heat source, and ifs its an on demand style even better! Otherwise you would need a hot water heater element in your tank to bump up the temp.
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bryanbzl
Spawn Runner



Registered: 03/11/07
Posts: 563
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Blue Oyster basement farm [Re: Gr0wer]
#21923127 - 07/10/15 05:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gr0wer said: Horse, cow, or chicken poo only needs to be pasteurized but heat pasteurized not lime. Once thing with adding poo is you need to watch your colonization temps as they will be higher with all the nitrogen. If you're really trying to be "green" and "organic" lime pasteurization is not good for the environment especially on large scale. You have a lot of toxic runoff in the form of high PH water. All that water eventually returns to the ground via a sewer plant or cesspool. Have you considered going to hot water bath? If you have a hot water heater that goes to 150-160 that should be all you need for a heat source, and ifs its an on demand style even better! Otherwise you would need a hot water heater element in your tank to bump up the temp.
Not that using lime is environmentally friendly in all ways - but, there should be no runoff from lime use. Do not soak and drain. use only the lime that you need and only hydrate your substrate. works perfect every time and is also a more consistent method. Not positive about the teks but if I find and when I find them I will post them here for all.
-------------------- Cheers, bzl -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "From 1898 through to 1910 heroin was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children." conclusion: poor fucking children of the early 1900's.
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Dhearic


Registered: 01/24/14
Posts: 846
Loc: Neverland
Last seen: 9 months, 4 days
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Re: Blue Oyster basement farm [Re: bryanbzl]
#21924005 - 07/10/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bryanbzl said:
Quote:
Gr0wer said: Horse, cow, or chicken poo only needs to be pasteurized but heat pasteurized not lime. Once thing with adding poo is you need to watch your colonization temps as they will be higher with all the nitrogen. If you're really trying to be "green" and "organic" lime pasteurization is not good for the environment especially on large scale. You have a lot of toxic runoff in the form of high PH water. All that water eventually returns to the ground via a sewer plant or cesspool. Have you considered going to hot water bath? If you have a hot water heater that goes to 150-160 that should be all you need for a heat source, and ifs its an on demand style even better! Otherwise you would need a hot water heater element in your tank to bump up the temp.
Not that using lime is environmentally friendly in all ways - but, there should be no runoff from lime use. Do not soak and drain. use only the lime that you need and only hydrate your substrate. works perfect every time and is also a more consistent method. Not positive about the teks but if I find and when I find them I will post them here for all.
I'm only just now starting to experiment with straw logs and such so I'll probably start by using a hot water bath to play with small batches.
At what scale does lime pasteurization become economical? The fuel savings from not using my stove/propane burner would be nice.
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Credit where credit is due.
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Gr0wer
always improving


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,056
Loc: El Paso, TX
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Blue Oyster basement farm [Re: Dhearic]
#21924905 - 07/10/15 02:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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That is all dependant on your fuel, electric, and lime cost. I can tell you electricity is typically much cheaper especially vs propane. Natural gas and electric are pretty close in cost but electric is more efficient at transferring heat to the water.. To heat 45 gal of water to temp it costs me less than a dollar in electricity per batch. 1500w for 5 hrs starting at room temp.
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moonlightmushrooms
farmur

Registered: 05/10/14
Posts: 214
Loc: canada
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Blue Oyster basement farm [Re: bryanbzl]
#21925821 - 07/10/15 07:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bryanbzl said: Do not soak and drain. use only the lime that you need and only hydrate your substrate. works perfect every time and is also a more consistent method. Not positive about the teks but if I find and when I find them I will post them here for all.
Wow! I've never heard of this, I'd love to hear more. Have you done this yourself? How can you be sure the straw got fully soaked?
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moonlightmushrooms
farmur

Registered: 05/10/14
Posts: 214
Loc: canada
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Blue Oyster basement farm [Re: Gr0wer]
#21925854 - 07/10/15 07:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have a 15gal keggle I used for brewing I'm considering re-purposing for a hot water soak. It has a 1500w hot water heater element and takes 1.5 hours to reach pasteurizing temp. Is it really worth switching from lime to hot water, or just wait and jump to steam when the money starts rolling in :P
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bryanbzl
Spawn Runner



Registered: 03/11/07
Posts: 563
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Quote:
moonlightmushrooms said:
Quote:
bryanbzl said: Do not soak and drain. use only the lime that you need and only hydrate your substrate. works perfect every time and is also a more consistent method. Not positive about the teks but if I find and when I find them I will post them here for all.
Wow! I've never heard of this, I'd love to hear more. Have you done this yourself? How can you be sure the straw got fully soaked?
I have very limited experience with it. It has worked for me - but I have only done it a couple of times. Here is a discussion that you will enjoy.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/19367080
-------------------- Cheers, bzl -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "From 1898 through to 1910 heroin was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children." conclusion: poor fucking children of the early 1900's.
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bryanbzl
Spawn Runner



Registered: 03/11/07
Posts: 563
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Blue Oyster basement farm [Re: bryanbzl]
#21926111 - 07/10/15 08:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Another thing... When you use this method you are not pasteurizing like the typical heat pasteurization. It works by raising the PH high enough that no spores or bacteria can grow. At the same time mycelium seems to have no issue colonizing high PH(12). It is also a good idea to use a higher spawn ratio so that the substrate gets colonized relatively quickly - before the PH drops back down and opens up a window for contams. I hope this makes sense!
-------------------- Cheers, bzl -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "From 1898 through to 1910 heroin was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children." conclusion: poor fucking children of the early 1900's.
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Gr0wer
always improving


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,056
Loc: El Paso, TX
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Quote:
moonlightmushrooms said: I have a 15gal keggle I used for brewing I'm considering re-purposing for a hot water soak. It has a 1500w hot water heater element and takes 1.5 hours to reach pasteurizing temp. Is it really worth switching from lime to hot water, or just wait and jump to steam when the money starts rolling in :P
I've done a couple pasteurizations in my 15.5 gal brew kettle, good for about 10 gals of substrate. I've since hooked up a 1500w element in a 55 gal drum and insulated it for 30-35 gals of substrate. I get 1 degree per 5 min with 40-45 gals with 98F+ ambient temps, takes less than two hours to get to temp when i use hot water out the tap to start.
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beastcoast
Stranger
Registered: 03/29/15
Posts: 92
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Blue Oyster basement farm [Re: Gr0wer]
#21930714 - 07/11/15 08:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bryanbzl said:
Quote:
Gr0wer said: Horse, cow, or chicken poo only needs to be pasteurized but heat pasteurized not lime. Once thing with adding poo is you need to watch your colonization temps as they will be higher with all the nitrogen. If you're really trying to be "green" and "organic" lime pasteurization is not good for the environment especially on large scale. You have a lot of toxic runoff in the form of high PH water. All that water eventually returns to the ground via a sewer plant or cesspool. Have you considered going to hot water bath? If you have a hot water heater that goes to 150-160 that should be all you need for a heat source, and ifs its an on demand style even better! Otherwise you would need a hot water heater element in your tank to bump up the temp.
I was wondering about this. Where I live in New England, soil pH is generally low because of geological deficiencies and acid rain. Home owners typically apply several bags of lime in the fall to raise pH to more suitable levels. I forget the exact coverage rate, but it's on the order of several 40 pound bags per acre. It doesn't take much lime for pasteurization, does it? A few pounds I read? Doesn't seem like it would have much effect.
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beastcoast
Stranger
Registered: 03/29/15
Posts: 92
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Blue Oyster basement farm [Re: Dhearic]
#21930735 - 07/11/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Btw, I'm finding a propane burner to be quite efficient. I have a 185k BTU jet burner underneath a 55 gallon metal drum. One 20 pound propane tank (17 dollars per fill) lasted me enough to bring the water up to 155, and then maintain it for an hour, on three occasions. 95% of the fuel is used bringing the water up to temperature. After that point, the burner can be dampened to a very low flame.
I just built a wire basket so that I can remove straw while keeping the hot water in the barrel. So I only need to heat it up once. I should be able to get 5+ bales done on one cylinder full of fuel.
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popok
Stranger


Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 64
Loc: athens, greece
Last seen: 10 months, 2 days
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Re: Blue Oyster basement farm [Re: beastcoast]
#21940934 - 07/14/15 07:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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We also run a basement farm with oysters, but using straw and coffee grounds. We make own spawn on barley from spores. As you can see, we couldn't make up our mind what size, shape and filter type should the bags have. 
We switched too recently to rehydrating straw with lime water instead of soaking, so we better control moisture content. For coffee grounds, we simply mix it with lime, gypsum and spawn, and add dry pellets to absorb excess moisture.
Edited by popok (07/14/15 07:45 AM)
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Jim Morrison
Lizard King



Registered: 03/20/15
Posts: 1,479
Loc:
Last seen: 3 years, 4 days
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Re: Blue Oyster basement farm [Re: popok]
#21941269 - 07/14/15 09:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- Jim Morrison's Trade List Live Long and Myceliate! The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Ayn Rand
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moonlightmushrooms
farmur

Registered: 05/10/14
Posts: 214
Loc: canada
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Blue Oyster basement farm [Re: popok]
#21943484 - 07/14/15 07:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
popok said: We also run a basement farm with oysters, but using straw and coffee grounds. We make own spawn on barley from spores. As you can see, we couldn't make up our mind what size, shape and filter type should the bags have. 
We switched too recently to rehydrating straw with lime water instead of soaking, so we better control moisture content. For coffee grounds, we simply mix it with lime, gypsum and spawn, and add dry pellets to absorb excess moisture.
Nice! What's your spawn to straw ratio, those look like some big clusters!? I'm curious about your choice of using filter bags, did you get a awesome deal on them to make it cost effective versus poly tubing? I've seen some major operations (the San Fran guy) who uses solely filter bags but I assumed he bought in bulk to make it worth while.
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