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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21949146 - 07/15/15 08:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Right, but Capitalism doesn't aim to be a level playing field in any way... I don't know what you're talking about as far as liberals and equality, but I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that conservatives desire any form of equality. They don't even want marriage equality...


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #21949434 - 07/15/15 09:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Soviet Russia was a form of state Capitalism.




LMFAO! really? The Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics was capitalist? Noooo, they weren't socialist at all...:rolleyes:

I've noticed that the left has been doing this for awhile now, redefining words to fit their agenda. When their programs fail, they just change the terminology so they can blame something else...


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InvisibleBlackWidow
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` [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #21949457 - 07/15/15 09:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

`


Edited by BlackWidow (02/03/21 03:48 PM)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: BlackWidow]
    #21950140 - 07/16/15 12:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlackWidow said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

BlackWidow said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I'm so tired of this "socialism = free stuff" equivocation.

Read a damn book.



But that's what it is. That's why the only thing you can say is "read a book." If you're going to mock someone's intelligence, at the very least provide some sort of credible argument.

Let's make socialism an opt-in system. Anyone in the country who wants this sort of social program can sign up for it. Anyone who doesn't want to participate in socialism simply doesn't sign up for it. I would have no problem with that. The rich folk who want to be left alone and not taxed to hell can be and the ones who want socialism can have it.




Socialism is not so narrow a concept. You really have to read a few books to understand it. If you had, I think your view wouldn't be so myopic.



I've read bits of the communist manifesto. Sure, it's an amazing utopian system on paper but let's take a look at how well it worked out in the real world.




Socialist principals only failed in countries that attempted to implement them via violent revolution. The leaders of violent uprisings generally assume the role of dictator. Dictatorships are dysfunctional.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: BlackWidow]
    #21951056 - 07/16/15 09:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlackWidow said:

I've read bits of the communist manifesto. Sure, it's an amazing utopian system on paper but let's take a look at how well it worked out in the real world.




Exhibit A: equating socialism with communism.

By the way, the Manifesto can be read in an hour. Maybe reading is just hard for you, which I understand.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21951177 - 07/16/15 09:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>Blowing those fucks up is a social benefit the whole world takes advantage of

Again revealing your racist hatred toward arabs.



Arab isn't a race and Arab isn't my issue.  Iranians aren't Arabs, are they?  Pakistanis aren't Arabs, are they?  The Taliban aren't Arabs, are they?  Boko Haram aren't Arabs, are they?  Jemaah Islamiyah aren't Arabs, are they?




You carefully did not quote the part where I said you also hated everyone over there who is not a jew. You hate arabs and brown people in general. Your racism is plain to see.



Muslim is not a race.  There are Arab Jews and Arab Christians and Arab Atheists.  I have no problem with them.  The Iranians aren't Arab and I hate the Iranian Musllims more than any other Muslims.  Your ignorance is impressive.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21951191 - 07/16/15 09:55 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

BlackWidow said:

I've read bits of the communist manifesto. Sure, it's an amazing utopian system on paper but let's take a look at how well it worked out in the real world.




Exhibit A: equating socialism with communism.

By the way, the Manifesto can be read in an hour. Maybe reading is just hard for you, which I understand.



I've read it.  There is no substantial difference between communism, socialism and fascism.  State control of the economy.  All differences are irrelevant


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21951199 - 07/16/15 09:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Arabs are indeed a race and ethnic group, you hate all arabs and all brown people. Your statement that killing them was a "public service" would get most people banned.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21951224 - 07/16/15 10:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Arabs are an ethnic group.  Persians are an ethnic group.  Indonesians are an ethnic group.  The only people I loathe are Muslim freakshows.  It has nothing to do with race.  Louis Farrakhan is a Muslim freakshow and I hate him too.  Is he an Arab?


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21951230 - 07/16/15 10:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Do you back off from your statement that they should be killed as a public service?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21951271 - 07/16/15 10:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

BlackWidow said:

I've read bits of the communist manifesto. Sure, it's an amazing utopian system on paper but let's take a look at how well it worked out in the real world.




Exhibit A: equating socialism with communism.

By the way, the Manifesto can be read in an hour. Maybe reading is just hard for you, which I understand.



I've read it.  There is no substantial difference between communism, socialism and fascism.  State control of the economy.  All differences are irrelevant




Irrelevant why? Because you have to make a dichotomy of "capitalism, and then everything else?"

Besides, communism doesn't even HAVE a state.


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InvisibleBlackWidow
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` [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21951298 - 07/16/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

`


Edited by BlackWidow (02/03/21 03:47 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21951358 - 07/16/15 10:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Do you back off from your statement that they should be killed as a public service?



Radical Muslim freakshow murderers like Boko Haram and ISIS and al Q and whatever the name of that one in Indonesia is?  Absolutely not.  Kill them all.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21951372 - 07/16/15 10:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

BlackWidow said:

I've read bits of the communist manifesto. Sure, it's an amazing utopian system on paper but let's take a look at how well it worked out in the real world.




Exhibit A: equating socialism with communism.

By the way, the Manifesto can be read in an hour. Maybe reading is just hard for you, which I understand.



I've read it.  There is no substantial difference between communism, socialism and fascism.  State control of the economy.  All differences are irrelevant




Irrelevant why? Because you have to make a dichotomy of "capitalism, and then everything else?"

Besides, communism doesn't even HAVE a state.



What is North Korea?  Capitalism doesn't have a state.  It sure as shit isn't us.

What do you perceive to be the relevant distinction between the three of them?  They are triplets that differ in the number of freckles they have.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21951400 - 07/16/15 10:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

>Stonehenge said:
Do you back off from your statement that they should be killed as a public service?

>Absolutely not.  Kill them all.

All except the jews of course. You are quite a piece of work.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: BlackWidow]
    #21951444 - 07/16/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlackWidow said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

BlackWidow said:

I've read bits of the communist manifesto. Sure, it's an amazing utopian system on paper but let's take a look at how well it worked out in the real world.




Exhibit A: equating socialism with communism.

By the way, the Manifesto can be read in an hour. Maybe reading is just hard for you, which I understand.



Why not actually add something to the discussion? Using personal attacks because you don't have a valid response doesn't exactly work in your favor.




Your response perfectly exemplifies why people are ignorant about socialism, and communism. And I don't understand why someone who's obviously interested in the subject can't be bothered to actually learn about it by reading a book that might take up your lunch break.

If you want to take it as an attack, go right ahead.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21951462 - 07/16/15 10:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What is North Korea?  Capitalism doesn't have a state.  It sure as shit isn't us.

What do you perceive to be the relevant distinction between the three of them?  They are triplets that differ in the number of freckles they have.




Capitalism doesn't need to be without a state.

Here's a boiled down version:

Capitalism - private means production
socialism - public means of production via the state
fascism - private means of production colluding with state
communism - public means of production, no state whatsoever

Let me know which of those dozen words confused you.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21951537 - 07/16/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Firstly, Fascism is far distinct from the other two. Fascism allows private ownership of big businesses, though the state does control many important businesses. Fascism, by virtue, punishes dissent. Fascism is nation specific, and highly nationalistic, which generally leads to racism against those perceived to be "immigrants". Fascism limits free speech so 'damaging things' (As determined by the government) are not talked about (like the glorification of drug use on tv). Fascism necessarily has a central leader, who is supposed to be held highly accountable for any mistakes he makes as leader. It is always run by dictatorship. Fascism is also isolationist, attempting to function as completely as possible without reliance on other nations.

Neither communism nor Socialism are isolationist, or beligerantly nationalistic philosophies. They are in no way meant to be dictatorships. Freedom of speech is not infringed upon by these philosophies.

Communism is really irrelivant, because it couldn't be implemented directly from any system but Socialism, and it is not likely to be implemented regardless. Socialism is the necessary result of Capitalism. As you shall see shortly. Stay tuned, bro :wink:


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21951543 - 07/16/15 11:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What is North Korea?  Capitalism doesn't have a state.  It sure as shit isn't us.

What do you perceive to be the relevant distinction between the three of them?  They are triplets that differ in the number of freckles they have.




Capitalism doesn't need to be without a state.

Here's a boiled down version:

Capitalism - private means production
socialism - public means of production via the state
fascism - private means of production colluding with state
communism - public means of production, no state whatsoever

Let me know which of those dozen words confused you.




That was a nice simple way to lay it out. Means of production is really what it's all about.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineGalba Cubensis
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Re: New Poll 47% would vote for a Socialist [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #21951805 - 07/16/15 12:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
I believe we can't help but share.




What about me then? Do you think I share alot? :laugh: Where do I fit into your nice paradigm?:tongue2:


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