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Invisibleinsanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
Re: Phosphorus supplement for Psilocybin Cubensis [Re: invitro]
    #21825966 - 06/18/15 10:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Almost all cereal grains are high in phosphorous so supplementing for phosphorous would be pointless if you use grain for spawn.

kizzle, you maybe interested in this research paper on the production of psilocybin. It mentions that the tryptophan cycle could not be tied to the production of psilocybin and that citric acid and sucrose seem to play major roles while potassium deficiency played a role in the inability to produce said secondary metabolites.

Click on the pdf at the bottom of the screen.

http://circle.ubc.ca/handle/2429/21293?show=full


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OfflineChk
Reverser
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/06/13
Posts: 405
Loc: France
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: Phosphorus supplement for Psilocybin Cubensis [Re: invitro]
    #21826597 - 06/19/15 02:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Ok, ok i meant the usual green clay, whatever its right name is.


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Invisiblemustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist
I'm a teapot


Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
Re: Phosphorus supplement for Psilocybin Cubensis [Re: Chk]
    #21826617 - 06/19/15 02:52 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

the best additive i have found(and ive tried loads) imo is insect frass.

hpoo naturally has some.

its full of chitin, protein, amino acids,minerals and a balance of nitrogen and potassium that is agreeable.

most nurition is in acceptable forms for the mycelium.

its cheap(just a handful in a mono will do)

have no conclusive proof of effects but seems increase speed of colonisation and improve size and health of fruits but no increase in potency(least not measurable and only MS used so cant tell).

insect frass is the perfect additive i have used for years.
it beats coffee for contam resist and has the nitrogen.
it has lots of protein and amino acids and minerals.
the chitin will get broken down and assimilated.
i guess minimal potash and phospor will be used too.

i have only used with MS grows tbh
and my hpoo has traces from alfalfa too.
so no idea what does what really  but it consistently preforms better in looks! lol

if you want to add something, be that for what ever goal, insect frass will do you good.
nearly all ground fungi get a quota of dead decaying insect frass in nature.
this is one area our subs lack compared with nature.

i would love to see others try out insect frass to see if they get the same results!
as far as i know im the only guy on the net to use them or have tried them in mycology :smile:

i regard it as my secret weapon lol
hpoo+verm+gysum+frass


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Edited by mustangbob3 (06/19/15 09:47 AM)


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Offlinebolbol
Bird
Male

Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 239
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: Phosphorus supplement for Psilocybin Cubensis [Re: mustangbob3]
    #21826912 - 06/19/15 06:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I tried supplementation during the past few months with carious things and honestly nothing seemed to give a better result as to when I started adding hpoo in my sub.


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Invisibleinsanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
Re: Phosphorus supplement for Psilocybin Cubensis [Re: bolbol]
    #21827259 - 06/19/15 08:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Hpoo FTW!


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OfflineObsidian
The lone deranger
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Registered: 06/13/14
Posts: 89
Last seen: 2 months, 29 days
Re: Phosphorus supplement for Psilocybin Cubensis [Re: insanemike]
    #21886607 - 07/02/15 07:08 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Spent coffee grounds are actually an excellent source of phosphorus for the mushrooms.


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Invisiblemustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist
I'm a teapot


Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
Re: Phosphorus supplement for Psilocybin Cubensis [Re: Obsidian]
    #21886973 - 07/02/15 09:13 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

but they are a vector for contaminates.

most who use coffee notice the window of opportunity for spawn to colonise the sub is reduced.

meaning slower substrains may not make the 100% before bacteria has started to rapidly multiply. an added risk.

but in essense your right


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OfflineObsidian
The lone deranger
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Registered: 06/13/14
Posts: 89
Last seen: 2 months, 29 days
Re: Phosphorus supplement for Psilocybin Cubensis [Re: mustangbob3]
    #21887135 - 07/02/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

my main problem with coffee are molds, not bacteria, risk of bacterial infection can be significantly reduced by correcting ph with some lime (coffee is quite acidic). To reduce the risk of molds I like to keep my substrate on the dryer side, and as you said it, only use it with aggressive colonizers. I am presently working with beautiful cambo strain that I have even seen eat her shit through seriously contaminated jars all the way until nothing is left but nice clean white mushroomy-smelling mycelia. The kind of chemicals scientists could isolate from this mycelium would make some wet dreams of big pharma come true..


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Invisibleinsanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
Re: Phosphorus supplement for Psilocybin Cubensis [Re: Obsidian]
    #21887313 - 07/02/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

What if you balanced the acidity of the added coffee with just the right amount of sodium hydroxide? Mold doesn't fare as well as cubensis on a slightly alkaline environment but I'm not sure about bacteria. If you are hell bent on adding coffee, your best bet is too lime and properly pasteurize. You could also sterilize it and spawn some roaster pans, with clear lids, in front of a flowhood. If you decide to proceed with the sterilization method, I suggest you make entirely sure that your spawn is clean.

If you are supplementing in the coffee for its phosphorous,  it's kind of pointless. All cereal grains are high in phosphorous.


Edited by insanemike (07/02/15 10:24 AM)


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Invisiblemustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist
I'm a teapot


Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
Re: Phosphorus supplement for Psilocybin Cubensis [Re: insanemike]
    #21887341 - 07/02/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

what he said


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OfflineKizzle
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Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,865
Last seen: 1 day, 12 hours
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Phosphorus supplement for Psilocybin Cubensis [Re: insanemike]
    #21889039 - 07/02/15 04:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

insanemike said:
Almost all cereal grains are high in phosphorous so supplementing for phosphorous would be pointless if you use grain for spawn.

kizzle, you maybe interested in this research paper on the production of psilocybin. It mentions that the tryptophan cycle could not be tied to the production of psilocybin and that citric acid and sucrose seem to play major roles while potassium deficiency played a role in the inability to produce said secondary metabolites.

Click on the pdf at the bottom of the screen.

http://circle.ubc.ca/handle/2429/21293?show=full



Yeah I've seen it. It certainly supports the idea that psilocybin production is influenced by medium. It also possibly explains the results of previous experiments with tryptophan supplementation since a measured increase in the amount of psilocybin at a certain point in time would not be contradicted by a lack of increase in the total produced in the end.


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InvisibleToadstool5
A Registered Mycophile
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Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
Re: Phosphorus supplement for Psilocybin Cubensis [Re: Kizzle]
    #21890163 - 07/02/15 09:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kizzle, you maybe interested in this research paper on the production of psilocybin. It mentions that the tryptophan cycle could not be tied to the production of psilocybin and that citric acid and sucrose seem to play major roles while potassium deficiency played a role in the inability to produce said secondary metabolites.




It can be tied to the tryptophan cycle through radioactively labelled precursors. However, the progression of the mechanisms is not understood well. We know which chemicals are involved just not in which order. See:

Biosynthesis of Psilocybin Part II.*Incorporation of labelled tryptamine derivatives.

Stig Agurell and J. Lars G. Nilsson

Departments of pharmacognosy and chemistry, royal pharmaceutical institute, kungstensgatan 49, stockholm VA, Sweden.

Quote:

tryptamine which is readily formed from tryptophan by P. Cubensis, serves as a better precursor than tryptophan. If tryptamine is methylated to N-Methyltryptamine, this is an even better progenitor of psilocybin with incorporations showing that more than half of the psilocybin was derived from the introduced labelled precusor. (Expts. Nos. 38, 42)




Its interesting because N-Dimethyltryptamine (dmt) and tryptophan were hardly significant but nonetheless small amounts of labelled versions were present in the final psilocybin.

I believe the term they used was "large differences in the absorption of different closely related precursors has been observed."

Interesting and promising information for those looking to supplement their medium. Keep in mind potassium supplements might be needed as well as phosphorus supplements if N-methyltryptamine is used. Albeit it was not necessary with the swedish scientists findings.

More information of the ability of P. Cubensis to convert tryptophan to tyrptamine is also available from Agurell, S. and Nilsson, L. in the Acta Chemica Scandinavica 22 (1968)


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If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups


Edited by Toadstool5 (07/02/15 09:34 PM)


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