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Invisiblejesuisravi
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Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocybin
    #21886677 - 07/02/15 07:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

This speaks for itself:

Anatomy of a Ritual - ingestion of hallucinogens via enema
July, 2001 by Jared Diamond

In several New World cultures, the enema was the technique of choice for taking hallucinogenic drugs. The practice was based on sound physiological principles.

Ritual intake of alcohol and hallucinogens by enema used to be widespread among Native American tribes and is still practiced today by some. It was performed both by hunter-gatherers in the Amazon jungle and by the Maya, the most advanced indigenous civilization in the New World. But the custom may seem puzzling or bizarre to many people today. After all, if you're disposed to mind-altering drugs, it's easy just to swallow, smoke, sniff, or lick them. Why go to the trouble of taking them by enema?

The answer does not have to do with the unique beliefs of exotic cultures but with basic principles of intestinal physiology, applicable to all of us. My own research specialty as a physiologist consists of trying to figure out how our intestine is adapted for doing what nature meant it to do. Rectal administration of drugs seems to be the reverse of what's natural. How could the outcome not be disastrous if we use an orifice specifically adapted for expelling chemicals to admit them instead? But recent advances in our understanding of digestive physiology lead me to conclude that Native American enema devotees knew what they were doing. Until the modern invention of hypodermic syringes for intravenous injection, the rectal route for hallucinogens offered special advantages.

Most Natural History readers, insofar as they think of enemas at all, doubtless associate them not with optional entertainment but with unpleasant medical necessity. Physicians routinely prescribe enemas to clean out a patient's lower intestine before an operation or a diagnostic procedure such as a colonoscopy. As far back as the time of the ancient Sumerians, medical enemas were used to relieve constipation by washing out intestinal contents, and to eliminate parasitic intestinal worms by instilling an antiworm drug, or vermifuge (same etymology as "centrifuge," from the Latin fugere, to flee, but in this case the flight is from the worms, Latin vermis, rather than from the center). For instance, rectally administered tobacco infusions--whether employed against pinworms, roundworms, tapeworms, or threadworms--proved an effective vermifuge in sixteenth-century Europe.

These two Old World uses of enemas are easy to understand. In both cases, substances were administered by rectum, rather than by mouth, because the aim was to reach the lower intestine. There was no intent for the substances to reach the brain, and every intent for them not to. That's where traditional New World practices differed. American Indians used enemas only to administer mind-altering drugs. The rectum served not as a dead-end street but as a highway to the broad meadows of the body and brain. The enema was elevated from an uncomfortable, cold-blooded, results-oriented medical procedure to a delicious, quasi-religious ritual.

New World natives used many mind-altering drugs ranging from alcohol and nicotine to hallucinogens, and several of the latter were avidly embraced by drug users in the 1960s. Cocaine comes from the leaves of an Andean tree; mescaline, from the peyote cactus of Mexico and Texas; LSD analogues, from morning glory seeds; and psilocybin and psilocin, from Mexican mushrooms. With these or any other mind-altering drugs, the user's basic problem is how to get the drug to the brain. Today one can just use a needle and syringe to inject a drug into the bloodstream, but other means were needed in the days before hypodermics. While all such methods rest on the principle of getting the drug in contact with some body surface through which it will be absorbed into the blood, many choices of surface present themselves.

The most familiar choice is the small intestine, the upper stretch of our intestine just below the stomach. Coiling back and forth, the small intestine has a total length of about twenty-three feet. Its inner surface has innumerable microscopic and submicroscopic folds; smoothed out, it would cover about 5,000 square yards, comparable to the area of a football field. This enormous expanse makes the small intestine well adapted not only to its natural function of absorbing almost all the nutrients we ingest in food but also to the abnormal function of absorbing swallowed drugs.

Smoking is a popular route of drug intake for basically the same reason: microscopic folds also give our lungs a football-field-sized expanse through which to absorb oxygen and remove carbon dioxide. Still other absorptive surfaces are the tongue, the lining of the mouth, and the lining of the nose, reached through licking, chewing, and sniffing, respectively. Indians took drugs by all these still familiar routes plus two now unfamiliar ones: applying drugs to the skin and delivering them through the eyes, either by dripping them as liquids or blowing them as smoke.

The remaining absorptive surface discovered by Native Americans was the lower part of our intestine, known variously as the large intestine, colon, or rectum. To reach the other surfaces I have mentioned, all you have to do is swallow, inhale, lick, chew, or sniff (or simply expose an expanse of flesh or an eyeball). The rectal route, however, requires some mechanical props.

Perhaps the simplest prop is the suppository, a drug-impregnated plug designed for self-insertion into the anus, where the plug is melted by body heat, releasing the drug. While suppositories are a popular means of taking medicine in France, they have the disadvantage of exposing the drug to just a small fraction of the rectum's absorptive surface (the rectum is about six inches long, much longer than any suppository). Hence physicians must prescribe a considerably larger dose of any drug administered as a suppository than if the same drug is taken by mouth.

Indians devised two methods of rectal drug administration that are superior to the suppository. Both involve the insertion of a hollow bone or tube through which a drug-containing fluid is squirted deep into the rectum, thereby attaining rapid absorption across a large surface. In the first method, a helper simply fills his mouth with enema solution and blows it out through the tube. In the other, more sophisticated method, the protruding end of the tube is connected to a bulb made of an animal bladder, a leather bag, or rubber. The bulb, rather than the helper's mouth, is used to squirt the enema fluid. Thus, Indians invented the rubber-bulb syringe, now adopted worldwide for perfume atomizers and medicine droppers.

Between about A.D. 1 and 900, the Maya Indians of Central America developed a highly advanced civilization; their achievements included writing, beautiful artworks, astronomy books, and a notoriously complicated calendar. When archaeologists first began to find slender tubes of unknown function in Maya tombs, they did not immediately realize that Maya sophistication also extended to enema technology. The evidence came with the unearthing of beautiful, colorfully painted vases, some of which clearly depicted the purpose of the formerly mysterious tubes with an unmistakable clarity that made archaeologists blush. One of those vases (opposite page) shows a recumbent man with his legs spread, receiving an enema from a standing person (probably a woman) holding an enema bag. At the recumbent man's head stands a male helper ladling enema fluid out of a large jar. Another painted vase (see page 20) portrays a male god about to receive an enema from an attractive young goddess/woman standing behind him as she unties his loincloth, with an enema pot and bulb syringe ready in front of her. While we can only speculate about the ingredients, a clue is that some vases depicting enemas show containers of a foaming fluid resembling balche, the Maya beer that was popular at the time of the Spanish conquest and that may sometimes have been laced with hallucinogens.

But why on earth should anyone choose to administer mind-altering drugs by enema, which requires apparatus and often an assistant, instead of just swallowing the drug? Remembering that the purpose of the whole exercise is to get the drug to one's brain, I see three physiological advantages.

First, try to recall your nausea the first time you drank a lot of alcohol or inhaled smoke from a cigarette. And ash a few drug users how they felt when they first tried heroin, peyote, or psychedelic mushrooms. Most hallucinogens tend to cause nausea; even experienced Indian peyote-chewers are prone to feel sick to their stomach.

Thus, to consume mind-altering drugs by mouth can be self-defeating. If a drug stimulates vomiting, it may never reach the small intestine. In trying to take it by mouth, one may not only lose the drug but also turn what was intended as a pleasurable experience into a miserable one. By contrast, drugs taken by rectum can't produce nausea by irritating the stomach or the small intestine. Even if you do vomit, you retain the drug, because vomiting expels the contents of the stomach and upper small intestine but not of the large intestine.

The second advantage that enemas have over swallowing stems from the following facts of physiology: To get a "high" from a drug, you want to absorb it quickly so that it will reach a high concentration in the blood and brain. That's why intravenous injection is so effective--a needle-injected substance reaches the brain in less than half a minute. In the prehypodermic era, the fastest means of drug delivery was by enema.

From this perspective, swallowing is inefficient. Anything you swallow has to traverse your stomach before it can get absorbed through your small intestine. If your stomach already contains food, the drug that you swallow may sit in your stomach for hours until the food is ready for release into the intestine. This problem is compounded for the class of chemicals termed alkaloids, which includes most drugs of abuse: heroin, cocaine, nicotine, mescaline, LSD, and others. In chemical jargon, alkaloids are bases. What this means, in effect, is that when alkaloids reach the stomach, which secretes acid, they bind with a hydrogen ion and their absorption rate slows greatly. Hence, alkaloid absorption is negligible in the stomach and retarded in the small intestine. But this problem of retarded absorption doesn't arise in the rectum, because the rectum doesn't secrete acid. Rectal administration of alkaloids approaches the effect of mainlining them into a vein with a stroke of a hypodermic's plunger.

The remaining physiological virtue of delivering drugs by enema is that they bypass the small intestine's private line to the liver. While blood from the rectum goes straight into our general circulation and thence via the heart to the brain, blood from the small intestine goes first to the liver, which acts toward drugs as the bouncer at the nightclub door acts toward undesirable customers. One of the liver's functions is to admit absorbed nutritious foodstuffs into the general circulation but to weed out drugs and poisons that entered the small intestine accidentally or through our perverse intentions. The long list of drugs thus weeded out by the liver includes alcohol, cocaine, morphine, nicotine, and tetrahydrocannabinol (the active ingredient of marijuana).

In short, when you swallow a drug, it inevitably ends up in your liver, whose job is to prevent you from doing exactly what you are trying to do: get that drug to your brain. Circumventing that dilemma is the main reason for using any route of drug administration other than the stomach and small intestine--such as the lungs, nose, tongue, mouth, eyes, or rectum. But numerous drugs that you wouldn't want in your lungs or eyes are tolerated by the rectum.

At the risk of belaboring the obvious, I'll conclude by stressing why this piece shouldn't convince you to rush out and give yourself (or ask your beloved to give you) a hallucinogenic enema. Every argument against taking hallucinogenic drugs by any route applies with full force to the enema. Drugs destroy your body slowly if used carefully. They kill you quickly if used carelessly. They cut off your access to all the diverse and persistent pleasures of a normal life, in return for brief flashes of a single sickening pleasure. Added to all those general arguments, drug enemas pose other risks of their own. They are so tricky to administer correctly that they can easily cause severe poisoning or death. Native Americans knew that they had to leave enema administration to an expert elder.

It's ironic that some of the same drugs that Indians learned to handle safely are today causing terrible and widespread problems in our society. While the drug enema is an old tradition in the New World, the groups that indulged in the practice had the good sense to reserve it for rare ritual occasions. The extreme care and relative infrequency (compared with drinking and smoking) with which the custom was practiced by the very people who invented it testifies to their understanding of its dangers.

Jared Diamond is an intestinal physiologist and evolutionary biologist at UCLA. His book Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies won a 1998 Pulitzer Prize.

COPYRIGHT 2001 American Museum of Natural History
COPYRIGHT 2001 Gale Group

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...10/ai_76550319

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Edited by jesuisravi (07/02/15 08:51 AM)


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Invisiblejesuisravi
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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21886881 - 07/02/15 08:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I think this enema thing is doable, if the doer proceeds slowly and begins with small doses. It is easy--despite what the above author would lead you to believe--and safe if the user is careful, methodical, and does not give himself a dose he may not be able to handle. So, at any rate it seems to me. With this method you load your body with less toxic material. You bypass the stomach and its struggle to digest the indigestible. This struggle is the main cause of nausea when taking mushroom. There is another causeof nausea:A lot of psychedelics are relatively indiscriminate 5-HT agoninsts (at least tryptamine-based ones, like psilocybin), so you often get nausea even using pharmaceutical grade pure compounds, just because some of your dose hooks into those pesky 5-HT3s. This can be greatly ameliorated by using dropping 6 or 7 drops of lemon essential oil into your mushroom enema dose--also put some ginger in there as well.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Offlines240779
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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21887432 - 07/02/15 10:55 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jesuisravi said:
I think this enema thing is doable, if the doer proceeds slowly and begins with small doses.




lol, you can put a solution of any concentration up there. You don't need to freaking "start" with a low dose. It has to be a solution, though. You can't just stuff ground mushrooms in capsules and put them up there.


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InvisibleJean-guy Masta
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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: s240779]
    #21887466 - 07/02/15 11:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

So basicly op is saying that doing this would make the shrooms less toxic , so less nausea . I've been arguing on here with many people saying that there is toxins Into cubes and thus that's why there is nausea . But I heard cubes are none toxic , and I personally never really had nausea with shrooms.

So can someone give us the real answer ? Is there toxins into cubes ? Da2ra what's your take on this?


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Invisiblejesuisravi
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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: s240779]
    #21887495 - 07/02/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Quote:

jesuisravi said:
I think this enema thing is doable, if the doer proceeds slowly and begins with small doses.




lol, you can put a solution of any concentration up there. You don't need to freaking "start" with a low dose. It has to be a solution, though. You can't just stuff ground mushrooms in capsules and put them up there.




Yes, you have to use a solution. Stuffing whole mushroom up the anus is not what is being suggested. As for "any concentration"--well, be prepared for trouble in that case.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Offlines240779
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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21887511 - 07/02/15 11:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jesuisravi said:
As for "any concentration"--well, be prepared for trouble in that case.




You have no god damn idea what you're talking about. First of all, you know the difference between volume and concentration, right? It's best to use a small amt. of water, and a high concentration solution would be a lot of drug dissolved in a little water. Your rectum doesn't care how much drug there is. It absorbs chemicals just fine.

One issue with rectal administration is a person's shit up there, which the drug can get stuck in, so one may want to irrigate his colon using water and special equipment first.


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Invisiblejesuisravi
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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: Jean-guy Masta]
    #21887517 - 07/02/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jean-guy Masta said:
So basicly op is saying that doing this would make the shrooms less toxic , so less nausea . I've been arguing on here with many people saying that there is toxins Into cubes and thus that's why there is nausea . But I heard cubes are none toxic , and I personally never really had nausea with shrooms.

So can someone give us the real answer ? Is there toxins into cubes ? Da2ra what's your take on this?




The mushrooms aren't toxic but they contain a lot of chitin which is basically indigestible to humans. Also, psilocybin mimics 5HTP and can block its uptake. This process can also result in nausea.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Invisiblejesuisravi
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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: s240779]
    #21887535 - 07/02/15 11:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Quote:

jesuisravi said:
As for "any concentration"--well, be prepared for trouble in that case.




You have no god damn idea what you're talking about. First of all, you know the difference between volume and concentration, right? It's best to use a small amt. of water, and a high concentration solution would be a lot of drug dissolved in a little water. Your rectum doesn't care how much drug there is. It absorbs chemicals just fine.

One issue with rectal administration is a person's shit up there, which the drug can get stuck in, so one may want to irrigate his colon using water and special equipment first.




Yes, it would be a good idea to perform an enema on oneself before squeezing a dose of mushroom tea into the rectum.
As for the issue of concentration--look, go and use as much as you like. You can put so much alkaloid up there that you blow yourself to Mars, for all I care. Most of the rest of us might want to go a little slower.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Offlinethoraxx
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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21887679 - 07/02/15 12:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jesuisravi said:

As for the issue of concentration--look, go and use as much as you like. You can put so much alkaloid up there that you blow yourself to Mars, for all I care. Most of the rest of us might want to go a little slower.




Its just that this has nothing to do with the ROA
Makes little difference whether you drink the tea or take the backdoor

The improved absorbtion might give you a somewhat stronger, shorter trip, similar to raw vs lemon tek


As for OP ive always been interested in this, for my next harvest i hope to find time for an enema made from fresh cubes
Anything to get around the taste and nausea


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: thoraxx]
    #21887714 - 07/02/15 12:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)



Looks like the hedonist is smoking something.


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #21888077 - 07/02/15 02:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah there is still no reason to put tea up your ass instead of just drinking it. You've still never answered whether or not you've ever drank tea before.

I mean there is nothing wrong with wanting to do a mushroom tea enema but if all you're wanting to do is get rid of nausea there are better ways.


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InvisibleMagicalOrangutan
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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: searching]
    #21888471 - 07/02/15 03:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

They say you can take cacti/mescaline orally with little nausea if you only eat it with like honey or ginger or lemon essential oil and whatnot, but I disagree. You must bypass the stomach, if you're prone to psychedelic nausea


--------------------
On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze

Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky
We all need more love, and mainly less hate
Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye
That makes the heart's eye cry
Locked deep away in the skies of our minds

It's all in the mind


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: Jean-guy Masta]
    #21888792 - 07/02/15 04:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jean-guy Masta said:
So basicly op is saying that doing this would make the shrooms less toxic , so less nausea . I've been arguing on here with many people saying that there is toxins Into cubes and thus that's why there is nausea . But I heard cubes are none toxic , and I personally never really had nausea with shrooms.

So can someone give us the real answer ? Is there toxins into cubes ? Da2ra what's your take on this?




No, they have a layer called chetin I believe that our stomach has a very tough time/can't digest, thus causing the nausea. Which is why so many claim that making the tea and not eating any of the mush, avoids the nausea, which I can personally attest to. Not to get too personal but my stomach sucks so bad, I have to shit 10 minutes after every single thing I eat, and the tea makes nausea maybe like 2% of what it would be if I were to eat it. Threw up mushrooms quite a few times even after I've peaked.

(not directed at you Jean) I won't listen if you try to refute me on this next point because I'm stubborn, but if you put things up your butt, and feel the need to defend why sticking things up there is better, you simply like putting things up your butt.


Edited by SirShroomsAlott (07/02/15 04:40 PM)


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InvisibleJean-guy Masta
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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21889122 - 07/02/15 05:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
Quote:

Jean-guy Masta said:
So basicly op is saying that doing this would make the shrooms less toxic , so less nausea . I've been arguing on here with many people saying that there is toxins Into cubes and thus that's why there is nausea . But I heard cubes are none toxic , and I personally never really had nausea with shrooms.

So can someone give us the real answer ? Is there toxins into cubes ? Da2ra what's your take on this?




No, they have a layer called chetin I believe that our stomach has a very tough time/can't digest, thus causing the nausea. Which is why so many claim that making the tea and not eating any of the mush, avoids the nausea, which I can personally attest to. Not to get too personal but my stomach sucks so bad, I have to shit 10 minutes after every single thing I eat, and the tea makes nausea maybe like 2% of what it would be if I were to eat it. Threw up mushrooms quite a few times even after I've peaked.

(not directed at you Jean) I won't listen if you try to refute me on this next point because I'm stubborn, but if you put things up your butt, and feel the need to defend why sticking things up there is better, you simply like putting things up your butt.




soo i was like half right :lol: well gotta try lemon tek or tea will look if i see a difference, i think i have an iron stomach or something :ooo: ive puked too on shrooms a couple times , but its like right at the peak or right after on big doses when you feel drunk as shit on psych

but yea at this point the dude totaly likes putting stuff up his butt :lol: like how can you even talk about it to someone you know afterwards ,like yea dude you should try shroom soup up your ass , you get less nausea bro :lolsy:


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Invisiblejesuisravi
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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: searching]
    #21889884 - 07/02/15 08:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

searching said:
Yeah there is still no reason to put tea up your ass instead of just drinking it. You've still never answered whether or not you've ever drank tea before.

I mean there is nothing wrong with wanting to do a mushroom tea enema but if all you're wanting to do is get rid of nausea there are better ways.




Yes, I have tried tea. There was nausea, not as bad but bad enough. Nausea with psilocybin mushrooms comes down two paths--one involves chitin indigestion, the other has to do with psilocybin's 5 HTP antagonism. The first can be circumvented with tea--anly to some extent in my experience. The second is trickier. Ginger and lemon essetial oil might help there.With the 2nd issue, rectal administration would not make any difference. But to answer your question, yes I have tried tea. Still the stomach was very uneasy and the alkaloid has to struggle to get past the stomach acid. And, if you read the whole post--probably not--you would have learned that the phisiologist who wrote it contends that rectal administration is the healthiest way to go. I.e., you will keep your health longer that way.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


Edited by jesuisravi (07/03/15 06:18 AM)


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: thoraxx]
    #21889921 - 07/02/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

thoraxx said:
Quote:

jesuisravi said:

As for the issue of concentration--look, go and use as much as you like. You can put so much alkaloid up there that you blow yourself to Mars, for all I care. Most of the rest of us might want to go a little slower.




Its just that this has nothing to do with the ROA
Makes little difference whether you drink the tea or take the backdoor

The improved absorbtion might give you a somewhat stronger, shorter trip, similar to raw vs lemon tek


As for OP ive always been interested in this, for my next harvest i hope to find time for an enema made from fresh cubes
Anything to get around the taste and nausea




Finally, an intelligent comment. And not only can you possibly skip the nausea with anal administration, it may just be all around better for your health.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21889931 - 07/02/15 08:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jesuisravi said:
And not only can you possibly skip the nausea with anal administration, it may just be all around better for your health.




Oh, please, mushrooms aren't toxic. And anything that hits the bloodstream hits the liver. Plugging/injecting does not bypass the liver.


Also, the last time I did mushrooms I blended them up thoroughly with cacao and orange juice and I experienced zero nausea. Nausea was one negative that wasn't present because I quickly slipped into a sinister trip. Total lack of nausea or any other kind of body load, but it was a bad trip.


Edited by s240779 (07/02/15 08:37 PM)


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocybin [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21890362 - 07/02/15 10:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

An enema could work, shoving mushees would be absorbed quickly if you shoved them straight into your large intestine but I think an extraction would work best to increase surface area.

I wouldn't do it because it'd be messy and feel weird but I don't doubt it could work.


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocybin [Re: sudly]
    #21890500 - 07/02/15 10:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
An enema could work, shoving mushees would be absorbed quickly if you shoved them straight into your large intestine but I think an extraction would work best to increase surface area.

I wouldn't do it because it'd be messy and feel weird but I don't doubt it could work.




Yes, a good extraction is an attractive alternative.

You wouldn't even try it? Not even as an experiment? Even if maybe it would enhanse the experience?


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocybin [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21890542 - 07/02/15 10:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It's not on my bucket list or anything but if it gets me high I'd be interested in trying it.

I think the question is how and where?

Maybe it'd be something kinky to do with a gf? Like hey babe, wanna shove mushrooms extracts up your ass with me?


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocybin [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21891424 - 07/03/15 06:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

My take on this is simple and practical.  If you can eat whole or encapsulated mushrooms without gastric distress, you're good to go.  If not, your next step should be lemon tek/tea.  If that STILL leaves you with nausea and/or vomiting, or is so repulsive to you because of taste, then and only then would your situation suggest that an oral-equivalent dosage should be attempted via enema.

For the record, rectal administration of medications is a tried and true, legitimate method of introducing drugs into humans.  In patient's who (for example) have had oral esophageal, or gastric surgery and who require medications which cannot be delivered intravenously, rectal administration is often the ROI chosen.

N.B.


--------------------
All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.

                                                                               


Edited by Nature Boy (07/03/15 07:04 AM)


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: s240779]
    #21891429 - 07/03/15 06:12 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Quote:

jesuisravi said:
And not only can you possibly skip the nausea with anal administration, it may just be all around better for your health.




Oh, please, mushrooms aren't toxic. And anything that hits the bloodstream hits the liver. Plugging/injecting does not bypass the liver.


Also, the last time I did mushrooms I blended them up thoroughly with cacao and orange juice and I experienced zero nausea. Nausea was one negative that wasn't present because I quickly slipped into a sinister trip. Total lack of nausea or any other kind of body load, but it was a bad trip.




Don't kid yourself, anything that is so hard to digest that many who eat it get nauseous to the point of violently vomiting is plenty toxic.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21891444 - 07/03/15 06:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It is stated in 'The Psychedelic Experience' that isolated psilocybin rarely causes nausea. (Other reports corroborate that book's other claim that the nausea is psychological in origin.) This is a unique finding because only they had access to isolated psilocybin; we only have access to mushrooms.


Mild nausea occurs often with the ingestion of morning-glory seeds or peyote, rarely with mescaline and infrequently with LSD or psilocybin.

Nausea may sometimes occur. Usually this is a mental symptom, indicating fear, and should be regarded as such. Sometimes, however, particularly with the use of morning-glory seeds and peyote, the nausea can have a physiological cause.


The Psychedelic Experience. Leary, Alpert, and Metzner. 1964.


Charles Savage was convinced—this the first real argument I had with him—that mescaline was an emetic. I said, "No, it's not an emetic. It's just that people get into things that make them sick. But if the experience is conducted right, that can be avoided and those things resolved without their throwing up." Well, he didn't agree with me, but I don't think we ever had a person throw up, in all our foundation's work.

Myron Stolaroff. Higher Wisdom: Eminent Elders Explore the Continuing Impact of Psychedelics. 2005. p. 57.


In a total of 42 treatments, vomiting was experienced three times.

Forrer M.D., Gordon R. Richard D. Goldner, M.D. Experimental Physiological Studies with Lysergic Acid Diethylamide (LSD-25). AMA Archives of Neurology & Psychiatry. 1951, 65(5):581-588. doi:10.1001/archneurpsyc.1951.02320050038004. DOWNLOAD See pg. 583.


Edited by s240779 (07/03/15 06:32 AM)


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21891451 - 07/03/15 06:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I know people who get nauseous because of the taste of mushrooms and the thought that they grow in manure.

With extracts they don't experience any nausea.


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: sudly]
    #21891459 - 07/03/15 06:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
With extracts they don't experience any nausea.




And extracts contain all the chemicals contained in mushrooms, so that proves that mushrooms are just as nontoxic as pure psilocybin and that the only reason whole mushrooms are more nauseating is because of the chitin irritating the stomach and/or taste and/or being disgusted by the fact that the mushroom may have fruited from dung.


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: s240779]
    #21891467 - 07/03/15 06:35 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I believe the nausea is psychological.

After an accumulated 40-50 doses of psilocybin cubensis I have never once thrown up, not even after eating almost 90g wet. I know people who have thrown up on 2g dry.

Personally I know what i'm doing, I know what I'm ingesting and I know what to expect with taste and effect.


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: sudly]
    #21891472 - 07/03/15 06:37 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Excellent data.


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: sudly]
    #21891746 - 07/03/15 08:35 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
I believe the nausea is psychological.

After an accumulated 40-50 doses of psilocybin cubensis I have never once thrown up, not even after eating almost 90g wet. I know people who have thrown up on 2g dry.

Personally I know what i'm doing, I know what I'm ingesting and I know what to expect with taste and effect.




Good. Go for it.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: s240779]
    #21891762 - 07/03/15 08:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
It is stated in 'The Psychedelic Experience' that isolated psilocybin rarely causes nausea. (Other reports corroborate that book's other claim that the nausea is psychological in origin.) This is a unique finding because only they had access to isolated psilocybin; we only have access to mushrooms.


Mild nausea occurs often with the ingestion of morning-glory seeds or peyote, rarely with mescaline and infrequently with LSD or psilocybin.

Nausea may sometimes occur. Usually this is a mental symptom, indicating fear, and should be regarded as such. Sometimes, however, particularly with the use of morning-glory seeds and peyote, the nausea can have a physiological cause.


The Psychedelic Experience. Leary, Alpert, and Metzner. 1964.


Charles Savage was convinced—this the first real argument I had with him—that mescaline was an emetic. I said, "No, it's not an emetic. It's just that people get into things that make them sick. But if the experience is conducted right, that can be avoided and those things resolved without their throwing up." Well, he didn't agree with me, but I don't think we ever had a person throw up, in all our foundation's work.

Myron Stolaroff. Higher Wisdom: Eminent Elders Explore the Continuing Impact of Psychedelics. 2005. p. 57.


In a total of 42 treatments, vomiting was experienced three times.

Forrer M.D., Gordon R. Richard D. Goldner, M.D. Experimental Physiological Studies with Lysergic Acid Diethylamide (LSD-25). AMA Archives of Neurology & Psychiatry. 1951, 65(5):581-588. doi:10.1001/archneurpsyc.1951.02320050038004. DOWNLOAD See pg. 583.




Really, I don't need anyone to tell me what my body wants to do when it ingests--or trys to--certain substances or teas therefrom prepared. But, hey, do what you want to. You will anyway.

By the way, I am grageful for the intelligent reply quoted above. So much better than the "Penis Envy" idiot/trolls that this topic usually attracts.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


Edited by jesuisravi (07/03/15 08:53 AM)


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: s240779]
    #21891775 - 07/03/15 08:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Quote:

sudly said:
With extracts they don't experience any nausea.




And extracts contain all the chemicals contained in mushrooms, so that proves that mushrooms are just as nontoxic as pure psilocybin and that the only reason whole mushrooms are more nauseating is because of the chitin irritating the stomach and/or taste and/or being disgusted by the fact that the mushroom may have fruited from dung.




Yes, dirty extracts done in kitchens and basements do contain all or many of the chemicals that straight mushrooms contain. But more patience and more sophisticated methods yield purer substances.Anyway, even pure psilocybin, because of its 5 HTP antagonism, has the potential to nauseate. To what extent? Don't know. I do know I'd be glad to swap mushroom tea for some pure psilocybin any time.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21891784 - 07/03/15 08:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If it was as cut and dry as '5HT2A agonism causes nausea' then everyone would get nauseous 100% of the time. But it's not that cut and dry; it's more complex than that, just like the Stolaroff and 'Psychedelic Experience' quotes convey.


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21891800 - 07/03/15 09:00 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jesuisravi said:
By the way, I am grageful for the intelligent reply quoted above. So much better than the "Penis Envy" idiot/trolls that this topic usually attracts.




Just saw this. You're welcome and thank you.


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocybin [Re: Nature Boy]
    #21891907 - 07/03/15 09:46 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
My take on this is simple and practical.  If you can eat whole or encapsulated mushrooms without gastric distress, you're good to go.  If not, your next step should be lemon tek/tea.  If that STILL leaves you with nausea and/or vomiting, or is so repulsive to you because of taste, then and only then would your situation suggest that an oral-equivalent dosage should be attempted via enema.

For the record, rectal administration of medications is a tried and true, legitimate method of introducing drugs into humans.  In patient's who (for example) have had oral esophageal, or gastric surgery and who require medications which cannot be delivered intravenously, rectal administration is often the ROI chosen.

N.B.




Agreed. Whatever floats your boat. I don't really believe that the human speices is a single species--we are each so different that within this species are 7 billion other species that for convenience sake we group together as one species because they all have 1 head, 4 limbs and 20 digits.
For one tea is terrific. He has absolutely no problems when he does tea. For another, like Terence Mckenna, straight mushroom flesh is the way to go.This type can gobble down 40 grams like nothing. For a third, who finds tea disgusting and actual mushroom tissue absolutely and immediately emetic, rectal is the royal way.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


Edited by jesuisravi (07/03/15 08:41 PM)


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: s240779]
    #21891912 - 07/03/15 09:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
If it was as cut and dry as '5HT2A agonism causes nausea' then everyone would get nauseous 100% of the time. But it's not that cut and dry; it's more complex than that, just like the Stolaroff and 'Psychedelic Experience' quotes convey.




Exactly.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: searching]
    #23358035 - 06/18/16 01:05 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Hey guys I know this thread is old but I was wondering if someone could help me out with some questions for shroom tea .

I wanted to know what was an accurate estimate of fresh cubes in a tea for a level 5 trip ?

How many hour would it last ?

Thanks a lot for your time guys .


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: som776]
    #23358920 - 06/18/16 06:38 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Do a search for the mushroom dosage calculator


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: Bardy]
    #23359773 - 06/19/16 02:44 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Unless youre planning a tea-enema, you just picked the wrong one out of thousands of dosage threads.


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: thoraxx]
    #23360174 - 06/19/16 08:38 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

necro-recto threading


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocybin [Re: Drone]
    #23361243 - 06/19/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I don't know about anyone else, but I think shoving psilocybin up my ass would bring on a bad trip/headspace


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocibin [Re: Jean-guy Masta]
    #23362266 - 06/19/16 10:36 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Jean-guy Masta said:
So can someone give us the real answer ? Is there toxins into cubes ?




No there is no toxins and mushrooms are not a poison at all. The reason they cause nausea is from the skin of the mushroom itself being hard to digest but that's only natures way of keeping you from overdosing on them or eating them simply because you can. Think about it; it's a drug that you eat therefore there has to be something put in place to keep you (or some animal) from eating too many.


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocybin [Re: jesuisravi]
    #24694673 - 10/08/17 05:08 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

calculating dose shall prove challenging, vomiting with OD can be induced easily to clear imbibed intoxicant.


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Re: Here is the WHY of rectal administration of Psilocybin [Re: hassank]
    #26545765 - 03/20/20 01:19 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Many drugs are absorbed poorly to varying degrees via the stomach/small intestine. Rectal absorption is usually better and faster. Anything absorbed via the small intestine goes via the liver and then into the bloodstream and then to other parts of the body. Drugs absorbed via the rectum go straight into the bloodstream and bypass the liver, thus one pass through the liver is avoided. For these reasons, you generally getter a bigger bang for your buck with rectal administration - faster & better absorption and the liver does not remove a small amount on the first pass. Therefore weight for weight rectal administration gives greater effect. Nausia may well be reduced or avoided too.

I do not know the oral or rectal absorption rates of psilocin or psilocybin, nor do have any experience with rectal administration of them. I would however hazard a guess that a salt of psilocin would be preferable to the freebase. Absorption would likely be better and irritation likely a lot less. I would suggest making a tea for rectal administration slightly acid (pH 4 - 7) with an acid. Citric, ascorbic or acetic would be good choices or HCl if you know what your doing. Put it this way, if you used a natural organic food acid you are unlikely to go too far wrong and burn your arsehole irrepairably. Strong inorganic acids like HCl or H2SO4 different story and if used should definitely be titrated with care.


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