Home | Community | Message Board

Mycohaus
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore Injection Grain Bag   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflinePsilosopherr
A psilly goose
Other User Gallery


Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,280
Last seen: 9 days, 15 hours
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Toadstool5]
    #21889922 - 07/02/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Toadstool5 said:
Besides, the only thing that i eat which is 2% mercury is canned dolphin, i mean tuna.
:aweohyou:



... :seriousthumbsup: you're charming

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevandago
 User Gallery


Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 20,928
Loc: .
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21890252 - 07/02/15 09:43 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

This whole thread makes me want to choke on my vomit.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleToadstool5
A Registered Mycophile
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: vandago]
    #21890290 - 07/02/15 09:51 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

This whole thread makes me want to choke on my vomit.




Maybe an antiemetic is in order? :bigblunt: :flyhigh:


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLittleDaddy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,072
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Toadstool5]
    #21890603 - 07/02/15 11:05 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Dextroamphetamine is a chemical name; desoxyn is a pharmaceutical name.

Just because a chemical contains the backbone of another doesn't mean there effects are the same or that one has multiple drugs in it. Biochemistry is more abstract. You're manipulating electron density throughout the binding site - changing the structure from meth to mdma can drastically alter which binding sites are affected.

By your concept, everything with a cyanide (nitrile) group would have the effect of cyanide


--------------------
The hotter the battle, the sweeter Jah victory.
Put the heathen's back upon the wall.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilosopherr
A psilly goose
Other User Gallery


Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,280
Last seen: 9 days, 15 hours
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: LittleDaddy]
    #21890609 - 07/02/15 11:06 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

:popcorn:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineD.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant
Female

Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21890692 - 07/02/15 11:22 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Amphetamines just share a carbon skeleton. No one who knew what they're talking about would say they're the same thing, or whatever that guy is falsely implying.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleToadstool5
A Registered Mycophile
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: LittleDaddy]
    #21890699 - 07/02/15 11:23 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry ill call dextromethamphetamine by its long name.

That is correct but in this instance there is not much difference.

Mdma has more of an affinity for 5-HT transport and amphetamines more towards DA but they both trigger the same set of receptors. Thats why we consider them part of the methylated amphetamines, why would we create classes of chemicals if they werent simply manipulations of the basic structure?

Mdma is a substituted methamphetamine which is simply a substituted amphetamine. They will trigger the "amphetamine" receptors in different magnitudes (affinities) but is this really of that much significance? It makes you feel better than regular ol' meth, ok doesnt mean its not a methamphetamine and a danger to your health.


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLittleDaddy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,072
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Toadstool5]
    #21890913 - 07/03/15 12:25 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

If they trigger them in different affinities then of course it is relevant. It alters the LD and overall toxicity of a substance.

Quote:

3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) and methamphetamine (METH) are amphetamine analogues with similar persistent neurochemical effects in the mouse which some have described as neurotoxicity. We attempted to identify dose regimens of MDMA and METH with similar effects on behavioral and physiological variables in the mouse, then quantified the effects of these dose regimens on neurochemistry and microglial markers. Four discrete injections of saline, MDMA (10, 20, or 30 mg/kg), or METH (5 or 10 mg/kg) were administered to mice at 2 h intervals. Body weight was quantified immediately before each injection, and 2 h after the last injection, while core temperature and locomotor activity were continuously monitored via radiotelemetry. Mice were sacrificed 72 h after the final injection and brains were rapidly dissected on ice. Dopamine content in various brain regions was quantified via high pressure liquid chromatography (HPLC), and microglial activation was assessed by saturation binding of the peripheral benzodiazepine receptor (PBR) ligand [3H]PK11195. Specific dose regimens of MDMA and METH induced similar reductions in body weight, depletions of dopamine and its metabolites, and similar hyperthermic and locomotor stimulant effects, but only METH activated microglia in striatum. These results suggest that repeated high doses of MDMA and METH that produce hyperthermia, locomotor stereotypy, weight loss and neurochemical depletion are not consistently accompanied by microglial activation. The finding that METH, but not MDMA, induces microglial effects in the striatum consistent with neurotoxicity might imply different mechanisms of toxic action for these two psychostimulants.


A previous report by Pubill and associates (2003) utilized ex vivo [3H]PK11195 binding in the rat brain to compare and contrast the neurotoxic effects of METH and MDMA. In that study, increased PBR binding was noted in the striatum (39%) and cortex (32%) following METH administration, but not following MDMA administration, leading the authors to conclude that “there are differences between the brain responses to the neurotoxicity induced by METH and MDMA as far as glial activation is concerned” (Pubill et al., 2003)


The finding that the behavioral and physiological effect of these particular dose regimens were accompanied by increased [3H]PK11195 binding only following METH administration may imply important differences in the toxic mechanisms of these two drugs


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2276981/




--------------------
The hotter the battle, the sweeter Jah victory.
Put the heathen's back upon the wall.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleToadstool5
A Registered Mycophile
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: LittleDaddy]
    #21891088 - 07/03/15 01:22 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The finding that METH, but not MDMA, induces microglial effects in the striatum consistent with neurotoxicity might imply different mechanisms of toxic action for these two psychostimulants.




Different mechanism because the 5-HT receptors are effected more but there is still neurotoxicity present from it overloading 5-HT and DA receptors.

In my opinion if its a psychostimulant, if it is neurotoxic at 5-HT and DA, and if 90% of its chemical shape is methamphetamine then I'm convinced its at least close enough to methamphetamine to not use it.

Nomenclature guys, mdma is simply a version of methamphetamine.

What do you expect to happen from taking it? Honestly? People need to understand they are not different in the long run and grand scheme of things.

Drain bamage bad :crazy2:


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLittleDaddy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,072
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Toadstool5]
    #21891963 - 07/03/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I've just shown they're different. I'm done.


--------------------
The hotter the battle, the sweeter Jah victory.
Put the heathen's back upon the wall.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilosopherr
A psilly goose
Other User Gallery


Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,280
Last seen: 9 days, 15 hours
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: LittleDaddy]
    #21892011 - 07/03/15 10:22 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LittleDaddy said:
I've just shown they're different. I'm done.



quitter!

I thought we had legitimate challenger there for a second :shitstorm:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLittleDaddy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,072
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Psilosopherr] * 2
    #21892120 - 07/03/15 11:00 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)



In his last statement he noted his opinion which isn't science. Furthermore, he noted another prominent difference between the drugs by MDMA's action of 5-HT, which psychedelics have proven is quite important receptor. Maybe it is toxic on that receptor, but meth is also toxic in the glial cells, unlike mdma. I've shown meth is toxic for different reasons, which supports the notion that these drugs are not the same. Again, just because something has a carbon triple bonded to a nitrogen within the compound doesn't mean the compound will act like cyanide.

And saying 90% of its chemical shape is meth is misinformation - just because the way we draw or say something hints that meth is a constituent of mdma doesn't mean it is.
The physical chemistry behind the molecule is completely different. Those two ethers are going to pull electron density from the ring and completely change the binding affinity for receptors as well its 3 dimensional conformation - not to mention that the psychoactive metabolites will be different as well.

Meth may be similar to MDMA, but it is not inherently a part of mdma


--------------------
The hotter the battle, the sweeter Jah victory.
Put the heathen's back upon the wall.

Edited by LittleDaddy (07/03/15 11:09 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLittleDaddy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,072
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: LittleDaddy]
    #21892156 - 07/03/15 11:11 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)



--------------------
The hotter the battle, the sweeter Jah victory.
Put the heathen's back upon the wall.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleToadstool5
A Registered Mycophile
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: LittleDaddy]
    #21892747 - 07/03/15 01:52 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

but it is not inherently a part of mdma




Seriously?

Quote:

toxicity is an intrinsic property of a substance, namely its ability to disturb the physiological balance of an organism to such an extent that the organism no longer can be considered healthy. In other words it becomes ill (Koeman, 1996). The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) of the US considers the effects of substances as toxic or adverse when there is functional deterioration or pathological damage that affects the functioning of the whole organism or that reduces the ability of the organism to react to additional hazards.




Quote:

21 U.S.C. § 802

(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (C), the term controlled substance analogue means a substance -
(i) the chemical structure of which is substantially similar to the chemical structure of a controlled substance in schedule I or II;
(ii) which has a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system that is substantially similar to or greater than the stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system of a controlled substance in schedule I or II; or
(iii) with respect to a particular person, which such person represents or intends to have a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system that is substantially similar to or greater than the stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system of a controlled substance in schedule I or II.




Quote:

Furthermore, he noted another prominent difference between the drugs by MDMA's action of 5-HT




Prominent? Is has a slightly greater affinity for 5-HT over meth. Meth still causes 5-HT damage and stimulation.

Quote:

just because the way we draw or say something hints that meth is a constituent of mdma doesn't mean it is.




Meth is a constituent of diethylenedioxymethamphetamine. You cant spell mdma without ma now can you?

Quote:

The physical chemistry behind the molecule is completely different.




Completely different? They are both psychostimulants, both act on the same set of receptors, both cause neurotoxicity, and both are commonly abused.

Besides pharmacological chemistry is what you are thinking of not the physical chemistry.

Quote:

indirect evidence of neuronal damage can be assessed. For example, an increase in the volume of glial cells (a supporting and nourishing type of brain cell) (=gliosis) or an increase in glial fibrillary acidic protein (GFAP) are associated with neuronal damage and can be used as markers




Mdma could very well be toxic on gilial cells but due to the additional damage at 5-HT leading to GFAP release there is no observable difference in neurotoxicity of gilial cells. This is why it MIGHT suggest a different mechanism for neurotoxicity.

Even the same drug can go through a multitude of metabolic mechanisms depending on settings and dose or other variables. Look at dmt and 5-ho-dmt.

If you want to assume the difference is insignificant and risk neurotoxicity then by all means procede. I apologise for my efforts to keep people safe.


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleToadstool5
A Registered Mycophile
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Toadstool5]
    #21892776 - 07/03/15 01:57 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

This isnt something new to science man

How do you think mdma was invented? It was an experimentation on what could be done with methamphetamine. Same with heroin and morphine and we all know how that turned out.


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLittleDaddy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,072
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Toadstool5]
    #21893384 - 07/03/15 04:17 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I never said mdma isn't harmful and personally it's not for me. I still believe mdma is RELATIVELY safe when compared to meth. And I still hold my ground that they aren't the same. I did mean physical chemistry, which is the foundation for the pharmacological effects.

Their binding affinities definitely mean something - any user ive talked to knows the perceptual differences from meth and mdma. By personal accounts, it also seems meth is quite a bit more addictive. I don't think your attempt to invalidate the article is valid. I'll take a more detailed look at it and the article when I get to my computer and run another literature search.


--------------------
The hotter the battle, the sweeter Jah victory.
Put the heathen's back upon the wall.

Edited by LittleDaddy (07/03/15 04:37 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLittleDaddy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,072
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: LittleDaddy] * 1
    #21895263 - 07/04/15 01:09 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, I don't think you're right. if they're measuring GFAP, high levels of it are going to show glial cell toxicity.

Just read the concluding paragraph of the article I posted. Clearly displays differences.
Also, your argument about the analogue of DMT, compare LSA to LSD - one active in micrograms and one active in milli.

Furthermore, they had to increase the amount f mdma in that study 6 times that of meth to produce the hyperthermia and dopamine release of meth. Hmmm, have to consume six times more to get similar harmful effects... Sounds safer to me. Meth has more types of severe toxicity...


--------------------
The hotter the battle, the sweeter Jah victory.
Put the heathen's back upon the wall.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilosopherr
A psilly goose
Other User Gallery


Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,280
Last seen: 9 days, 15 hours
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: LittleDaddy]
    #21895313 - 07/04/15 01:29 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

:whatyougonnado:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRebelutionsssss
Mdmazing
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 13,137
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21896467 - 07/04/15 12:05 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

:dancer:


--------------------
:
To define is to confine.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleToadstool5
A Registered Mycophile
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
    #21896608 - 07/04/15 12:49 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

GFAP is released by astroglia to form glial scars to prevent further damage of the cell, look into astrogliosis. There wont be a reduction in the density of glial cells because astrogliosis will prevent their destruction by filling the voids left in the cell walls before they completely necrose.

Quote:


according to some formulae for interspecies scaling, the recreational MDMA doses might well approach doses commonly given to animals in experimental studies

Green AR., Mechan AO., Elliott JM., et al. The pharmacology and clinical pharmacology of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, “ecstasy”). Pharmacol Rev. 2003;55:463–508. [PubMed]




Interspecies scaling of experimental doses is very fluid and many people use mdma like theres no tomorrow.

Quote:

Moreover, some heavy users take MDMA more frequently than just at weekends; they ingest up to 10 or even more pills in one night and they typically use MDMA over years, which may increase the risk for long-term cumulative neurotoxic effects.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181923/





compare LSA to LSD - one active in micrograms and one active in milli.

Remember my key analogy? The difference in those two is much greater because the part of the molecule responsible for binding to the synapse has been severely modified. Diethylamination of any primary amine or even a secondary amine (if its stable) will lead to a huge difference in affinity.


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore Injection Grain Bag   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Alarm over magic mushroom sale motamanM 8,261 14 07/27/03 12:16 AM
by HarvestTheBrain
* Golf course over-run with magic mushroom hunters motamanM 8,964 11 04/18/20 07:17 PM
by meepins
* Magic Mushroom facts (ABC radio interview, Australia) ferret 4,540 5 06/15/03 04:47 AM
by Sheepish
* MAGIC MUSHROOMS TO BE EXPORTED? (WALES :) ) st0nedphucker 3,591 6 09/09/03 11:40 AM
by TheHobbit
* Did Jesus Eat Magic Mushrooms At Last Supper?
( 1 2 all )
YthanA 18,295 31 12/07/20 02:06 PM
by Holybullshit
* Massive magic mushroom seizure city's largest motamanM 13,397 6 05/13/03 11:53 AM
by daba
* Magic mushrooms are now being legally tested Ogla 869 5 12/02/18 08:33 AM
by filthyknees
* Brown student facing drug charges motamanM 5,124 6 07/30/03 12:14 PM
by Only1AK

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: motaman, veggie, Alan Rockefeller, Mostly_Harmless
10,891 topic views. 1 members, 5 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.03 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 15 queries.