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InvisibleToadstool5
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21888592 - 07/02/15 03:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

There was a man that was caught making it with shampoo, compared to a real lab with fume hoods and not hudreds of 5gal buckets, yeah ghetto.

Explain the nomenclature then genious.

If its not a methamphetamine then why is it named as such?


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Toadstool5]
    #21888643 - 07/02/15 03:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Don't need to explain. Maybe you could try to explain how these are identical?

http://www.users.humboldt.edu/jmmorgan/images/mamp1_s05.jpg

https://drugs-forum.com/photopost/data/500/mdmaalone.png

Not trying to start an angry argument, you were just saying some questionable shit.

Shampoo you say? I'm skeptical but interested.


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InvisibleToadstool5
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21888975 - 07/02/15 04:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Same functional group (secondary amine) attaches to the receptors the only difference is mdma is slightly longer and less soluble so it effects the same receptors but on a different magnitude. Thats the main difference between amphetamines and methamphetamines, the functional group responsible for bioactivity is different. In essence amphetamines are more different from meth than mdma is.

Even that difference between the functional group that attaches (primary vs secondary) doesnt make much of a difference on the brain, they dont have two separate conditions in the medical field, its all amphetamine psychosis.

Certain shampoos have weird but useful  methylether-R chemicals in them. Erowids rhodium chemistry faults have info on it. Indole from essential oils to a weird analogue of methamphetamine then the shampoo is purified (into a variety of precursors) and used to make a methyl ether if i remember correctly then you close the ring by adding a second ether bond between the third carbon and methyl group by oxidizing the methyl into an ethyl group.

Its as simple as starting with the right precursor or making meth with an appendage at the forth carbon that allows you to methyl ether it and finally ether it again.

I believe it can also be done with methcathinone. Its a common analogue of drugs but they still retain their original backbone and typically their generalized mechanism of psychoactivity on our brains.

Thats why there is no distinction between the courts. With the controlled analogue clearing up ambiguities the different classes of chemicals are one in the same.  I believe mdma is prosecuted harder solely because of the fact that you had to normally kill an endangered tree and internationally traffic it to get it here. Obviously with chemistry we now try to transition to indole synthesis but even today most of it is made from safrole. Hence, the courts decision. Same drug but no accepted medical value and a complication over sourcing and its negative effects on the international communty.


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

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Edited by Toadstool5 (07/02/15 04:49 PM)


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Offlinetacodude
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Toadstool5] * 1
    #21889016 - 07/02/15 04:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Toadstool5 said:
Quote:

You mean to tell me if you bought Molly from someone and it turned out to be meth you'd be like "oh well fuck it, its the same thing anyway"?




With the notorious impurities in MDMA and the availability of safrole oil, yeah. I would simply be glad it wasnt MDA or MDE.

Whats the most common MDMA adulterant? Meth, because who will honestly care?

I looked up adderall and they have changed the formula to dextroamphetamine instead of the infamous desoxyn so i stand corrected on that but I am done arguing the difference of MDMA vs MA because of a subjective high.

It has an amphetamine backbone and is methylated into a secondary amine. Like how is that not a methamphetamine?



I would be pissed to get MDMA instead of meth. MDMA is an empathetic feeling while meth is selfish. No no no no no no no. Seriously your arguments are not proper at all. Just because something has a similar name does not mean that they are the same. Who's to say the names your using even represents anything? Do you know what methyl means? Do you know what dioxy is? Do you know what the difference in the mechanism of action for each compound and similarities?

If you did you would know you were wrong long before you decided to argue.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Toadstool5]
    #21889025 - 07/02/15 04:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Toadstool5 said:
Same functional group (secondary amine) attaches to the receptors the only difference is mdma is slightly longer and less soluble so it effects the same receptors but on a different magnitude. Thats the main difference between amphetamines and methamphetamines, the functional group responsible for bioactivity is different. In essence amphetamines are more different from meth than mdma is.

Even that difference between the functional group that attaches (primary vs secondary) doesnt make much of a difference on the brain, they dont have two separate conditions in the medical field, its all amphetamine psychosis.

Certain shampoos have weird but useful  methylether-R chemicals in them. Erowids rhodium chemistry faults have info on it. Indole from essential oils to a weird analogue of methamphetamine then the shampoo is purified (into a variety of precursors) and used to make a methyl ether if i remember correctly then you close the ring by adding a second ether bond between the third carbon and methyl group by oxidizing the methyl into an ethyl group.

Its as simple as starting with the right precursor or making meth with an appendage at the forth carbon that allows you to methyl ether it and finally ether it again.

I believe it can also be done with methcathinone. Its a common analogue of drugs but they still retain their original backbone and typically their generalized mechanism of psychoactivity on our brains.



sounds to me like we merely got lost in semantics earlier

Thanks for that. didn't know just how similar the two were

Also didn't realize I was talking to a chemistry buff :hatsoff:


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InvisibleToadstool5
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: tacodude]
    #21889041 - 07/02/15 04:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I have a lot of experience in a real lab. Trust me i know what a methyl group is (CH3) and a dioxy in this case refers to the double ether bond of the extra ethyl group on the carbon ring.

If you undrstood pharmodynamics and chemical nomenclature you would know you are arguing against data with subjective bioassays. People react differently to drugs in each individual case, doesnt mean its a different drug.


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups


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InvisibleToadstool5
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Toadstool5]
    #21889053 - 07/02/15 04:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Thanks for that. didn't know just how similar the two were




Its cool man i just get so frustrated because i hate that people dont fully understand how dangerous mdma is.

I really dont condone drug laws but i simply cant condone saying the two are different. Most people imply a larger difference which leads to a misconception that mdma is safer.


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If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

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Offlinetacodude
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21889055 - 07/02/15 04:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

All's good.... I just read through the rest and you do have knowledge, but c'mon the new thing is PMK oil.... That's why there is so much good MDMA out again.

I can see why you would think meth might be in the MDMA structure and it somewhat is, but it is just much smaller and lacking a lot of balance that MDMA has. It is much different than the similarity in DMT and 4-ACO-DMT where it is just DMT with a tiny attachment on it. Meth needs to have nitrogen, carbon, and hydrogen to bound very specifically as well as an extra (I think carbon or oxygen really I don't know) ring to make it into mdma.

It is easy to get things mixed up in chemistry... It is complex

Edit: I get your point as many people don't respect the dangers of cannabis and instead create more value out of it than there is making it hard for real medical patients to utilize it properly as the medical industry is heavily tailored to recreational use many times not even respecting medical use as far as the risks of overdosing and dependency let alone unflushed buds and what not. It leads to many doctors here not respecting medical cannabis patients and allowing them to use that as a red flag for pain management and so on.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Toadstool5]
    #21889056 - 07/02/15 04:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Are we all just dumb or did you use a confusing phrasing at some point toadstool?

either way, he knows more than you tacodude.


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Offlinetacodude
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21889069 - 07/02/15 05:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Blazer... I never said he didn't have knowledge. I just pointed out that if he knew anything about what he was arguing about he would not be making this argument. Some may assume I insinuated he knew nothing with questioning what he did know, but I was curious how much he actually knew about what he was arguing. Many do while pulling shit straight from their ass knowing it without stating so.... At least I state I am usually pulling everything straight from my ass.


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InvisibleToadstool5
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21889085 - 07/02/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I thought the same way too before i worked in applied organic materials. I realized and discussed with my mentor that these chemicals are like keys. One side is essential to which doors it opens, the other side (typically the carbon ring) is like the handle. It makes it easier to use the key but it still only has the ability to unlock the same doors. I might also add that he explained it to me like this and he was a triple Ph.D in organics.

I have a hard time explaining it and its so burnt into our heads as young guys that mdma is different that we actually start to believe it.

The difference is insignificant when we look at it from an objective viewpoint, which is probably the hardest thing to do. The information is simple to comprehend but difficult to "see" for lack of a better verb.


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: tacodude]
    #21889141 - 07/02/15 05:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tacodude said:
Blazer... I never said he didn't have knowledge. I just pointed out that if he knew anything about what he was arguing about he would not be making this argument. Some may assume I insinuated he knew nothing with questioning what he did know, but I was curious how much he actually knew about what he was arguing. Many do while pulling shit straight from their ass knowing it without stating so.... At least I state I am usually pulling everything straight from my ass.



ssshhh.

You make more of a fool of yourself with every post. not trying to be a dick here.


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InvisibleToadstool5
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Toadstool5]
    #21889180 - 07/02/15 05:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

PMK oil.... That's why there is so much good MDMA out again




And heavy metal poisoning from the amalgam not being purified enough. Where would you get ahold of MeAm aka methylamine. Nobody has that shit since the days of prope dope and nobodys going make it. You have to handle zinc, isocyanates, or formaldehyde and simply to do an amalgam instead of cooking from an indole? Fuck that :rofl: even the conversion rate would be horrible compared to indole. If it worked for alexander shulgin (RIP) then its probably the single best way to produce.


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups


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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21889194 - 07/02/15 05:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

tacodude said:
Blazer... I never said he didn't have knowledge. I just pointed out that if he knew anything about what he was arguing about he would not be making this argument. Some may assume I insinuated he knew nothing with questioning what he did know, but I was curious how much he actually knew about what he was arguing. Many do while pulling shit straight from their ass knowing it without stating so.... At least I state I am usually pulling everything straight from my ass.



ssshhh.

You make more of a fool of yourself with every post. not trying to be a dick here.



You see though thing is I don't mind being a fool, but you mind being a dick :laugh: You're great though you got fritz the avatar.


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Offlinetacodude
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Toadstool5]
    #21889206 - 07/02/15 05:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Toadstool5 said:
Quote:

PMK oil.... That's why there is so much good MDMA out again




And heavy metal poisoning from the amalgam not being purified enough. Where would you get ahold of MeAm aka methylamine. Nobody has that shit since the days of prope dope and nobodys going make it. You have to handle zinc, isocyanates, or formaldehyde and simply to do an amalgam instead of cooking from an indole? Fuck that :rofl: even the conversion rate would be horrible compared to indole. If it worked for alexander shulgin (RIP) then its probably the single best way to produce.



Depends on in safroil can be obtained without destroying the forest of trees that produce safroil. I do know it can be produced from other compounds, but I think there are more simple methods such as PMK.... Either way in the end MDMA is MDMA, If it tests 98%+ with the only impurities being possible extra HCL than whats the difference between that and MDMA from safroil? Impure batches are much different where many find impure safroil batches to be better than washed MDMA and I bet that MDMA synthed from MDA synthed from safroil would be just bomb bomb bomb. Really though I do not know as you can tell I pull this all from my ass :laugh:


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: tacodude]
    #21889212 - 07/02/15 05:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tacodude said:
Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

tacodude said:
Blazer... I never said he didn't have knowledge. I just pointed out that if he knew anything about what he was arguing about he would not be making this argument. Some may assume I insinuated he knew nothing with questioning what he did know, but I was curious how much he actually knew about what he was arguing. Many do while pulling shit straight from their ass knowing it without stating so.... At least I state I am usually pulling everything straight from my ass.



ssshhh.

You make more of a fool of yourself with every post. not trying to be a dick here.



You see though thing is I don't mind being a fool, but you mind being a dick :laugh: You're great though you got fritz the avatar.



you get :thumbup: for being light-hearted about it


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InvisibleToadstool5
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21889282 - 07/02/15 06:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Using PMK requires using a mercury amalgam. If you arent amazingly good at purification you will kill someone. Most illegal labs dont even recrystallize let alone send it through a HPLC column.

Tests 98% in my wet dreams :rofl:

You arent buying ACS grade chemicals.

Just getting 98% hash oil is hard with hexane and ether column runs.

98% mdma from a natural precursor and reactions that offer 85% conversion at most is impossible unless you chromatography the hell out of it.


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups


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InvisibleToadstool5
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Toadstool5]
    #21889312 - 07/02/15 06:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Besides, the only thing that i eat which is 2% mercury is canned dolphin, i mean tuna.
:aweohyou:


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups


Edited by Toadstool5 (07/02/15 06:53 PM)


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Offlinetacodude
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21889496 - 07/02/15 06:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

tacodude said:
Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

tacodude said:
Blazer... I never said he didn't have knowledge. I just pointed out that if he knew anything about what he was arguing about he would not be making this argument. Some may assume I insinuated he knew nothing with questioning what he did know, but I was curious how much he actually knew about what he was arguing. Many do while pulling shit straight from their ass knowing it without stating so.... At least I state I am usually pulling everything straight from my ass.



ssshhh.

You make more of a fool of yourself with every post. not trying to be a dick here.



You see though thing is I don't mind being a fool, but you mind being a dick :laugh: You're great though you got fritz the avatar.



you get :thumbup: for being light-hearted about it



Is there any other way to be? Having a heavy heart sounds like having a heart blocked with stress rather than a healthy heart that flows.

Quote:

Toadstool5 said:
Using PMK requires using a mercury amalgam. If you arent amazingly good at purification you will kill someone. Most illegal labs dont even recrystallize let alone send it through a HPLC column.

Tests 98% in my wet dreams :rofl:

You arent buying ACS grade chemicals.

Just getting 98% hash oil is hard with hexane and ether column runs.

98% mdma from a natural precursor and reactions that offer 85% conversion at most is impossible unless you chromatography the hell out of it.



Than why is there so much PMK oil based MDMA on the darknet without any of these issues you mention? Even if the impurities exist in doses of 100-200 mg with an unknown very low percentage of impurities. Probably not enough to cause the toxicity. Only if the MDMA is abused heavily. At least that's what I would think. I am not edumacated.


Edited by tacodude (07/02/15 06:53 PM)


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InvisibleToadstool5
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Re: Straight A student caught with 'magic mushrooms,' meth gets probation [Re: tacodude]
    #21889673 - 07/02/15 07:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Its mercury, acts slowly and discretely unless you are bathing in it. Either way im not going ingest a HgCl amalgam or some messed up catalyst like sodium borohydride. I'll tell you I told you so in 25 years when everyone starts going insane from synthesis byproducts and neurological toxicity :thumbup:

Besides PMK is an isosafrole created material, makes since that they use it instead of indole or piperonal, they are lazy. Do you trust a lazy person to clean something several times simply because it might hurt a stranger?

Desomorphine comes to mind :goodluck:


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups


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