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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,805
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Re: Mushrooms are Safer than Water [Re: Achillita]
#21881670 - 07/01/15 05:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Physically they are safer than water, psychologically they are not.
Many people are not prepared for the effects of psilocybin or the experience of ego death. They often begin off instinct instead of thought and are filled with paranoia because they don't know what they are experiencing.
The biggest danger of magic mushrooms is a lack of knowledge of effect and low self awareness.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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LincolnCityTripper
Mushroom Maniac



Registered: 04/02/14
Posts: 1,395
Loc: Wonderland
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Re: Mushrooms are Safer than Water [Re: sudly] 1
#21881718 - 07/01/15 05:46 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Physically they are safer than water, psychologically they are not.
Many people are not prepared for the effects of psilocybin or the experience of ego death. They often begin off instinct instead of thought and are filled with paranoia because they don't know what they are experiencing.
The biggest danger of magic mushrooms is a lack of knowledge of effect and low self awareness.
"Physically they are safer than water, psychologically they are not" This I agree with
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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There's only been like 2 deaths attributed to psilocin, and in one of them the women just had heart surgergy a few days prior....
https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_death.shtml
Every case seems pretty murky to me, I'm of the oppinion that psilocin can not kill a human, and the evidence is actually on my side of this debate, regardless if psilocin was blamed in these cases...
I think the "saftey" argument only applies in politics, the real issue is no human or government has the right to tell you what plants you can and can not consume.
These arguements are great for pointing out the hypocrissy of drug policy that was meant to "protect us from ourselves" but doesn't hold much wieght in other areas of the debate...
After watching the film "supper high me" most would come to the conclusion that 30 days of non-stop marijuana is safer than 30 days of non-stop mcdonalds, yet if you make the statement "marijuana is safer than mcdonalds" even on shroomery you will be met with heavy backlash...
The truth is all the classic psychedelics are physically benign, the risks are psychological, these are the facts. Now, does anybody have the right to tell you that you cant make an educated decision and take these risks? That's the real issue here...
-E. Borodin
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Jean-guy Masta
Railyard Ghost


Registered: 09/23/14
Posts: 1,827
Loc: MT-Hell
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yea maybe physical death like an organ failure, but i think obviously more death can be attributed to psilocin .must atleast have 1000 freaked out suicide in history of shroom minimum. hell even I freaked out on shroom once. it even gave me some kind of PTSD for a lil while .
can driking water give you PTSD? 
im totally against the drug war tho, like anybody who has comon sense. and agree shroom is probably one of the safest drug ever
Edited by Jean-guy Masta (07/01/15 06:53 AM)
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Yeah, they distinguish death from the compound and death from behaviors on the compound.
Behavioral deaths shouldn't be included in a debate on pharmocological saftey, because in reality it was the persons poor decisions that lead to their death, not the actions of psilocin on their body.
I cant justify behavioral deaths, they are bound to happen, again, I still think its your choice to decide if your fit to take psychedelics or not, and if something negative happens no one is to blame except the person who consumed the compound, its easy to blame the compounds, its harder for people to take personal responsibility for their choices.
There are psychological risks, knowing this, you should act accordingly, be in a safe place, have a sober sitter, etc....if you fail to do these things and get hurt its your own fault. ....where as if a compound poisons you, that's 100% out of your control, and speaks to the true "saftey" of the compound.
People get drunk and hurt themselves and others every day, yet we deal with it in terms of personal responsibility, I think alcohol causes more behavioral deaths than any psychedelic, yet we learn to deal with it....
I'm not going to get into the drug war, but trust me, its working exactly as it was designed to, all the people who have interest in these compounds being contraband are cashing in big, the CIA, the DEA, all drug dealers...if Congress wont fund a dangerous radical foreign army who is fighting our enemys, the CIA will sell drugs (cocaine and herion predominantly), to fund them....but that's a whole other discussion....
-E. Borodin
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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I've never personally seen a life ruined from psychedelic use. I've seen and experienced temporary psychosis but everyone I know has recovered.
Alcohol on the other hand I've seen play a part in a number of suicide attempts as well as long term addictive behavior with associated issues. Both physically and psychologically I find it a far more dangerous substance.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Quote:
LincolnCityTripper said:
Quote:
nicechrisman said: I've never heard of anyone taking their life because they freaked out from taking water.
I haveQuote:
nicechrisman said: So you're telling me OP that you would be more comfortable giving your grandmother a fat dose of mushrooms than a glass of water? Did you know that you will die if you don't drink water? Has anyone ever died from NOT eating mushrooms?
This is not the point man you can die from drinking to much water, it is damn near physically impossible to eat that many mushrooms to die period plain and simple. Not every one eats mushrooms but most people drink water and there have been many casualties. Not the same can be said about mushrooms from over consumption.
100% of people who drink water die. 100% of people who take mushrooms die.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Mushrooms are Safer than Water [Re: nicechrisman] 1
#21882007 - 07/01/15 08:36 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nicechrisman said: 100% of people who drink water die. 100% of people who take mushrooms die.
This isn't true. I drink water and eat mushrooms. Not dead
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Good luck with that
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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Fantastic Mr. Fox
Grass Seed Connoisseur


Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 3,225
Loc:
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Re: Mushrooms are Safer than Water [Re: nicechrisman]
#21882031 - 07/01/15 08:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Everybody dies..
Life is death/Death is life
-------------------- Giving is all we have, for we're just grateful to be alive

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DurgaDurg
Stranger


Registered: 09/27/13
Posts: 576
Loc: Tangled In The Willows
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Mushrooms are Safer than Water [Re: nicechrisman]
#21882040 - 07/01/15 08:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think you're missing the point, hes talking about ld50 not staying hydrated. Mushrooms will not keep you hydrated.
-------------------- When you see him look him in the eye, look him in the eye and he won’t dare to follow If you need to, hook him with your right, hook him with your right till he wiggles and wallows He sleeps atop a bag of raven’s legs, curled up rats napping by his head Takes his eye out with a ball point pen And makes nunchaku with his torn off legs You wake up with a hatchet over your head You wake up with a hatchet over your head
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voodoochild1000
psychonautic



Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2,531
Loc: Cascades!
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
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Re: Mushrooms are Safer than Water [Re: Toadstool5]
#21882266 - 07/01/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Toadstool5 said:
Quote:
I've never heard of anyone taking their life because they freaked out from taking water.
Yep but someone always seems to bring it up. I guess toxicity is the only measurement of safety 
Cars must be super toxic since so many people die using them! 
Like another poster once said in these silly threads comparing the LD50 of water to drugs, "eat 100g of water, then eat 100g of cubes and tell us which you think is safer." 
.......lmfao...
-------------------- ....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD ...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post
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tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
Loc: Exact Center
Last seen: 3 days, 4 hours
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i think fresh mushrooms are only 8% safer than water
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: I've never personally seen a life ruined from psychedelic use. I've seen and experienced temporary psychosis but everyone I know has recovered.
Alcohol on the other hand I've seen play a part in a number of suicide attempts as well as long term addictive behavior with associated issues. Both physically and psychologically I find it a far more dangerous substance.
I completley argree about your statements regarding psychedelics, in my personal experience any psychosis was temporary, and eventually the person reached baseline. Though I do have some PTSD like symptoms induced by high dose DMT and psilocin trips, just recalling these experiances causes ones hairs to stand on end, the hands shake, the mind recoils in horror at the recollections and trys to advert to any other line of thought....though at the same time these were the most meaningful and transformitive experiances of my life, and the lasting positive effects far out weigh the slight PTSD like effects induced by the experiance, being born is a trauma, dying is a trauma, and genuine break-through psychedelic experiances can be traumatic, it does not necessarily mean they are negative....
Psychedelics are the coincidentia oppistorum, they are a union of opposites...I'm always reminded of the quntum principles that allow mag-lev trains to work, when they supper cool a magenet it is able to both attract and repel at the same time (you know how if you take a two magnets on one side they stick on the other they push away from one another? When supper cooled they are doing both at the same time) allowing the train to Hoover above the tracks, but not be pushed off of them entirely (when things are super-cooled they also become super-conductive, buts that's another discussion) so this quantum principle of being two opposite things at the same time is what reminds me of the psychedelic experiance, it was the most amazing, beautiful, enlightening, transcendent experiance of my life, while at the same time ive never been more disoriented, scared, horrorfied, etc...at the same time, the psychedelic experiance is "heaven and hell", its quantum in that its every opposite universially simultaneously, while we are used to things being one or the other, black or white, in the psychedelic experiance things are one and the other, black and white, and so on....
I got way off track....
Ive used the classic psychedelics all numerous times, enough to have experianced the full range of effects good and bad of each individual compound, and though I have had what some would call "bad-trips" where I was horrified, in a panic, in what I thought was a psychological fight for my existance (when your in these States your confronted with the true nature of mind, you realize that inner space is just as big as outter space and that the key to life and death lays within the mind itself, but this is another discussion as well) but in the end I learned more about myself, existance, the nature of life and death and the nature of mind from these experiances, its the difficult experiances that seem to have had the longest lasting effect, which has been positive aside from the PTSD like response induce when recalling some of the difficult experiances (I came out of all these difficult experiances with and new love and appreciation for life, and the stability of existing in a body in 3 dimentional space and time)
These are not experiances that should be taken lightly though, generally I'm all for the ken kesey tradition of fun, laughter, and so on, and these compounds can be great for opening up that side of people that just want to show love to one another, appreciate the beauty in life and over all have fun, but there also is a deep spiritual (for lack of a better word) side to these things, where you can be thrown through the door which the dead pass daily, and be confronted with some of the most serious issues one can confront, such as ones own death, the meaning of ones life, the truth behind the nature of existance in the time and space you happen to be in, and how your time there is not permanent, it confirms the notion that the physical body and conscious-self are in fact two seperate things that are very closely intertwined (like lichen, lichens are sn algea and a fungi, they needed an electron microscope to see this, it was assumed to be a single entity before that point) and that when your physical body dies (or through entheogens, near death experiance, etc...) your conscious being continues on in these other dimentions....
Getting off track again, well, before I wrote all this I smoked a decent ammount of hash, which should explain this post....I'm going to go eat some cocoa-pebbles and take a nap....
-E. Borodin
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 10 days
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Re: Mushrooms are Safer than Water [Re: Achillita]
#21882600 - 07/01/15 11:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said: If you weigh 70 kilograms(which is about 150 pounds), The LD50 dose for drinking water would be 6,300 mg, A little over 6 liters of water.
So 6 grams of water is 6 liters of water?
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Again these satatements like "mushrooms are safer then water" are perfect for pointing out how absurd it is to make laws to "protect us from ourselves" and how hypocritical it is to out-law these things on the grounds that we may "hurt ourselves with them" when just about anything can be just as dangerous, or in the case of psychedelics, more dangerous than an out-lawed substance under proper circumstances.....these statements are great for pointing out how hypocritical and absurd the arguement that our benevolent government is simply trying to protect us is, but don't hold much wieght in other areas of the debate....
The classic psychedelics (mescaline, psilocybe fungi, DMT preperations, marijuana) have been in use by man for thousands of years, these compounds are physically benign, your at no risk of death from ingesting these compounds, now, this doesn't mean we have the right to abuse these things, but we should have the right to use them, humans having been using them for more of their existence than they have been out-lawing them, and honestly, no person or government should be able to tell you what plants you can and can not consume, as a free individual you should be able to alter your consciousness if you choose to do so.....
-E. Borodin
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Re: Mushrooms are Safer than Water [Re: s240779]
#21882793 - 07/01/15 12:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Da2ra said:
Quote:
Achillita said: If you weigh 70 kilograms(which is about 150 pounds), The LD50 dose for drinking water would be 6,300 mg, A little over 6 liters of water.
So 6 grams of water is 6 liters of water? 
Oops I meant to type grams, not Milligrams. I'll fix that.
--------------------
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 10 days
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Re: Mushrooms are Safer than Water [Re: Achillita]
#21882847 - 07/01/15 01:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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OK, so that's 225 ounces of water. You're saying that a person can consume 225 ounces of psilocybin powder and not die? This thread is just ridiculous. Water is certainly safer than psilocybin by weight.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Mushrooms are Safer than Water [Re: tryptkaloids]
#21882891 - 07/01/15 01:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
tryptkaloids said: i think fresh mushrooms are only 8% safer than water 
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Mushrooms are Safer than Water [Re: s240779]
#21882934 - 07/01/15 01:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Da2ra said: OK, so that's 225 ounces of water. You're saying that a person can consume 225 ounces of psilocybin powder and not die? This thread is just ridiculous. Water is certainly safer than psilocybin by weight.
I think it was refering to consuming psilocin in the form of fungal cataphores, and not as a pure compound, in which case if you figure the LD50 of psilocin by the psiloc(yb)in content of the dry wieght of the mushrooms, your left with an unconsumable ammount of mushrooms, your stomach wouldn't be able to hold the mushrooms, ergo you can not eat the amount of psilocybe cataphores required to reach the LD50, where as with water, there have been cases (generally in probation officies regarding UA's so the person drinks a ridiculous ammount of water in a short ammount of time) where people have become very ill and even hospititslized due to water intoxication,....
I'm not sure this is a thread that was meant to be taken super seriously, though out of any available drugs id would have to say that psilocin and mescaline are amoung the safest known to man, with the longest histories of human use, we can look at tribal cultures that are still using these compounds today and have been for thousands of years, and we don't see high rates of still births, genetic mutations, high rates of mental illness, high rates of early death in adults, we don't see anything to indicate genetic or chromosome damage long term, and we don't see any evidence of health problems in the people currently using these compounds, and modern science and pharmocology confirms this, tor example: As senior LSD researcher Dr. David Nichols, Distinguished Chair of Pharmacology at Purdue University and head of one of the world's top LSD research labs, stated in his 2004 review article on hallucinogens, "There is no evidence that any of the hallucinogens, even the very powerful semisynthetic LSD, causes damage to any human body organ. [...] Hallucinogens do not cause life-threatening changes in cardiovascular, renal, or hepatic function because they have little or no affinity for the biological receptors and targets that mediate vital vegetative functions...(-erowid)
If your going to put a compound into your body, the classic psychedelics are the best choice, all the classics are either tryptamines or phenethylamines, just as your higher neurotransmitters are tryptamines (serotonin, meletonin, pinoline (pinoline is also a beta-carboline, but can be considered a tryptamine) or phenethylamines (dopeamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine) your body reconizes these compounds and has built in pathways to neutralize the compounds without any damage to any part of the body being caused, its no coincidence that DMT is endogenous and when taken alone is neutralized within 15 minutes, its because your body says "ah, I know this molecule, and I know what to do with it"
-E. Borodin
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