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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol
    #21879138 - 06/30/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.koco.com/news/10-commandments-statue-must-be-removed-from-state-capitol-oklahoma-supreme-court-rules/33849476

Do you agree that it should or disagree and why or why not? I personally disagree solely because it is a government building and a violation of separation of church and state IMO, and in a country where we have freedom of religion, one religion should not be favored publicly by the government.

What are your thoughts on the matter? Discuss Intelligently.
Do you think it should be removed?
You may choose 1


Votes accepted from (06/30/15 02:11 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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InvisibleZombi3
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21879177 - 06/30/15 05:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Its a nice monument, as long as they just relocate it and dont destroy it who cares where its sitting.


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Zombi3]
    #21879211 - 06/30/15 05:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

"Since then, others have asked for space, including a Nevada Hindu leader, animal rights advocates, the satirical Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and a group pushing for a Satan statue."

Why should one be okay, and the others not? I agree that it should just be relocated and not destroyed, but disagree with putting it on any public or state owned property, which in the article they mention that they are attempting to amend the constitution in order to make that statue acceptable where it is while also calling for impeachment of the people who voted for it to be removed, which IMO is a problem.


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OfflineSksoul
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21879218 - 06/30/15 05:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Separation of church and state


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InvisibleSalomon
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Sksoul]
    #21879226 - 06/30/15 05:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sksoul said:
Separation of church and state





this^


religious paraphernalia do not belong anywhere near bodies of government


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InvisibleZombi3
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Sksoul] * 1
    #21879230 - 06/30/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)



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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Sksoul]
    #21879239 - 06/30/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If they wouldn't allow monuments of other faiths, including the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, then it should be removed.

Something tells me the only one that would be allowed to stay is the Ten Commandments.


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OfflineAdolin
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Sksoul]
    #21879240 - 06/30/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

bullshit. it should stay, unless the school administrators vote to have it removed themselves. the gov't shouldnt have to be involved

its just a statue. what is so wrong with having a reminder to be a good person?



just a bunch of butthurt people who hate christians


also, has anyone ever heard of Prague? if they started enforcing rules like this, the entire city would have to be demolished


Edited by Adolin (06/30/15 05:31 PM)


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Adolin]
    #21879266 - 06/30/15 05:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The Czech Republic doesn't have the same constitution as the USA, it is on government property and a government should not favor one religion over any other.

America was founded on laws like this, they believed in the freedom of religion, and came here to escape religious persecution(and other reasons of course), if it was on private property such as someones house, no problem, but state property and the government should never publicly favor one religion, especially one that claims to be a secular government, unless they are willing to allow any and all other groups to also display what they like in the same area.

Public schools also have no say in the matter since they are a state run facility, meaning separation of church and state still applies.


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21879268 - 06/30/15 05:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

They're just buthrt because they got the shit trolled out of them by a bunch of atheists and satanists.


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Offlinespace walk
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Adolin] * 1
    #21879280 - 06/30/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Why is there a 10 Commandments monument outside of the capital in the first place?

What are they trying to say by putting it out there?

If they aren't trying to say anything, what's the problem with having it removed?


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: space walk]
    #21879292 - 06/30/15 05:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

A republican legislator privately funded it. "Rep. Mike Ritze, a Republican from Broken Arrow whose family paid about $10,000 for the monument's construction, pushed the bill authorizing the monument." "which was privately funded by a Republican legislator"


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OfflineAdolin
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21879295 - 06/30/15 05:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
The Czech Republic doesn't have the same constitution as the USA, it is on government property and a government should not favor one religion over any other.

America was founded on laws like this, they believed in the freedom of religion, and came here to escape religious persecution, if it was on private property such as someones house, no problem, but state property and the government should never publicly favor one religion, especially one that claims to be a secular government, unless they are willing to allow any and all other groups to also display what they like in the same area.

Public schools also have no say in the matter since they are a state run facility, meaning separation of church and state still applies.





Idealism is cool and all, but the fact is that there are references to religion (not only christianity) plastered all over public places and documents, all around the country

can you think of how many millions, if not billions, of dollars it could cost to remove the word "God" from every  single public document and monument?



again, i know that there is separation of chruch and state. but that doesn't mean you can't deptict, or practice religion in a public place

again, this is just a statue

(You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.)


it does say these things, but they are not enforced on campus.

it is still 100% legal to have gods before god, make idols, use the name of the lord in vein, and ignore the sabbath day


Edited by Adolin (06/30/15 05:45 PM)


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Adolin]
    #21879311 - 06/30/15 05:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

"again, i know that there is separation of chruch and state. but that doesn't mean you can't depict, or practice religion in a public place"

But it does mean that if the government is the one depicting it or practicing it publicly, which isn't legal according to the constitution which is why the supreme court had a 7-2 voting that it should be removed. And why they are trying to amend the Oklahoma constitution in order to make it legal.

Im not advocating going around removing the word god from everything and doing all that, but I do agree that it shouldn't be there in the first place if it is government run, and mentioning god isn't the problem, they can do that all they want, it is mentioning a specific god to a specific religion that I disagree with when it is the government behind it.


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OfflineAdolin
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21879333 - 06/30/15 05:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
"again, i know that there is separation of chruch and state. but that doesn't mean you can't depict, or practice religion in a public place"

But it does mean that if the government is the one depicting it or practicing it publicly.




It was privately funded, and again, they arent enforced rules.

it might be illegal to steal, murder, etc. on campus. but the 10 commandments themselves aren't enforced.


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Adolin]
    #21879366 - 06/30/15 06:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The construction of it was privately funded, where it was constructed was on public state owned property, which is illegal and IMO should be enforced. And the same guy who funded it, is the one who pushed the bill through allowing it to be constructed, he is using his own power to push his own religion, that is an issue.  I'm all for people believing whatever they want, but then how come they won't allow the Hindu group to build a statue, how come it can only be Christian depictions. It sets up a system where only one religion is allowed to be publicly depicted by our government and almost places it above all other religions. The depiction itself isn't the issue, it's the fact Christians are granted special privileges when it comes to the constitution and is almost directly saying our religion is better then yours to everyone who isn't Christian, in a country where we are supposed to have freedom of religion and a secular government.

Separation of Church and State goes all the way around, if it was a muslim, jewish, hindu depiction on government property, I'd still have a problem with it, there's a time and place for everything, and government isn't the time or place for religion.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Sksoul]
    #21879404 - 06/30/15 06:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sksoul said:
Separation of church and state




Actually, while there should be, there is no mention of "Separation of church and state" in the Constitution.

What it says is: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

In plain English... Congress can't start, endorse, stop or tamper with religion. As the Constitution is a document expressly designed to limit the power of the federal government, the states should be free to do as they wish.

"Separation of church and state" is a moronic reading of the Constitution by a moronic Supreme Court bench who legislated on the fly.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleAdden
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21879531 - 06/30/15 06:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
Do you agree that it should or disagree and why or why not? I personally disagree solely because it is a government building and a violation of separation of church and state IMO, and in a country where we have freedom of religion, one religion should not be favored publicly by the government.

What are your thoughts on the matter? Discuss Intelligently.




It's a piece of religious history and also a piece of art. It could be The Madonna and make no difference to me as far as removing it. It's where America comes from and is one of the few values, morals, respect institutions that exist. I fully support church and state, but a piece of art and history is something that belongs there. Removing it would make us deny who we are as Americans as a whole. It's part of the main faith that Americans have been subscribing to since it's inception. Leave it alone.


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OfflineSksoul
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21879669 - 06/30/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Sksoul said:
Separation of church and state




Actually, while there should be, there is no mention of "Separation of church and state" in the Constitution.

What it says is: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

In plain English... Congress can't start, endorse, stop or tamper with religion. As the Constitution is a document expressly designed to limit the power of the federal government, the states should be free to do as they wish.

"Separation of church and state" is a moronic reading of the Constitution by a moronic Supreme Court bench who legislated on the fly.




Yea, I guess I'm somewhat religious... I just think it is supposed to be personal and intrinsic in nature. Makes no difference to me whether they keep it or not. Does it still say "In God We Trust" on US currency?


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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Salomon]
    #21879680 - 06/30/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Salomon said:
Quote:

Sksoul said:
Separation of church and state





this^


religious paraphernalia do not belong anywhere near bodies of government




This has nothing to do with Religion and its influence on laws (or lackthereof :commonsense:. This is a cultural thing. Why dont you fucking liberals paint the world white already......or rainbow :rolleyes


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Edited by Almond Flour (06/30/15 07:16 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Sksoul]
    #21879685 - 06/30/15 07:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sksoul said:
Does it still say "In God We Trust" on US currency?




Yes


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Sksoul]
    #21879690 - 06/30/15 07:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sksoul said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Sksoul said:
Separation of church and state




Actually, while there should be, there is no mention of "Separation of church and state" in the Constitution.

What it says is: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

In plain English... Congress can't start, endorse, stop or tamper with religion. As the Constitution is a document expressly designed to limit the power of the federal government, the states should be free to do as they wish.

"Separation of church and state" is a moronic reading of the Constitution by a moronic Supreme Court bench who legislated on the fly.




Yea, I guess I'm somewhat religious... I just think it is supposed to be personal and intrinsic in nature. Makes no difference to me whether they keep it or not. Does it still say "In God We Trust" on US currency?




Doesn't say which god.


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OfflineAdolin
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21879697 - 06/30/15 07:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

it doesn't matter which god it is.


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Adden] * 1
    #21879706 - 06/30/15 07:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Dys said:
Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
Do you agree that it should or disagree and why or why not? I personally disagree solely because it is a government building and a violation of separation of church and state IMO, and in a country where we have freedom of religion, one religion should not be favored publicly by the government.

What are your thoughts on the matter? Discuss Intelligently.




It's a piece of religious history and also a piece of art. It could be The Madonna and make no difference to me as far as removing it. It's where America comes from and is one of the few values, morals, respect institutions that exist. I fully support church and state, but a piece of art and history is something that belongs there. Removing it would make us deny who we are as Americans as a whole. It's part of the main faith that Americans have been subscribing to since it's inception. Leave it alone.




That's a fair argument.


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InvisibleAdden
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Sksoul]
    #21879709 - 06/30/15 07:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I love coin collecting and the history behind it.. I think the In God We Trust thing is interesting.

Here's some Knowledge is Power if anyone's up for a cool read about history.

Quote:

In God We Trust" was adopted as the official motto of the United States in 1889 as an alternative or replacement to the unofficial motto of E pluribus unum, which was adopted when the Great Seal of the United States was created and adopted in 1782.[1][2] Secularists have expressed objections to its use, and have sought to have the religious reference removed from the currency.[3]

"In God we trust" first appeared on U.S. coins in 1864[4] and has appeared on paper currency since 1957. A law passed in a Joint Resolution by the 84th Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by President Dwight Eisenhower on July 30, 1956 declared IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States. This motto was first used on paper money in 1957, when it appeared on the one-dollar silver certificate. The first paper currency bearing the motto entered circulation on October 1, 1957






Quote:

, the 84th Congress passed a joint resolution "declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States." The law was signed by President Eisenhower on July 30, 1956, and the motto was progressively added to paper money over a period from 1957 to 1966.




And yeah it's still on our money.


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Adolin]
    #21879711 - 06/30/15 07:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gresh said:
it doesn't matter which god it is.




it does, every religion believes in god, just god doesn't put any one above any others, and the government isn't publicly putting one religion over others.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Sksoul] * 1
    #21879717 - 06/30/15 07:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sksoul said:
Separation of church and state





"Seperation of church and state" is not in the constitution anywhere.  The phrase came from a letter written by one of the founding fathers.

However the constitution does forbid the federal government from "establishment of religion"

what that means is that the government cannot have an official religion,  or exclude other religions to favor just one.  It also means that any and all religions could be involved in government,  just as long as the government doesn't pick just one to establish as the state government.

seperation of church and state doesn't mean what many people think.


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OfflineAdolin
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21879724 - 06/30/15 07:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
Quote:

Gresh said:
it doesn't matter which god it is.




it does, every religion believes in god, just god doesn't put any one above any others, and the government isn't publicly putting one religion over others.





the very concept of a 'god' itself puts others above you.

the essential definition of god is "A Supreme Being"

which puts him above me.


"I demand any and all references to god within the public domain be removed"

^notice how retarded that sounds?


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Adolin]
    #21879736 - 06/30/15 07:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I mean, it doesn't put the christian god above the hindu god, it doesn't put the hindu god above the christian god, of course god would be above us and the supreme being......but it's just "god"....they aren't publicly placing one religion above all other religions just by using the word god. Where the ten commandments is undoubtedly Christian, and favoring one above any others.


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Shins]
    #21879762 - 06/30/15 07:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

Sksoul said:
Separation of church and state





"Seperation of church and state" is not in the constitution anywhere.  The phrase came from a letter written by one of the founding fathers.

However the constitution does forbid the federal government from "establishment of religion"

what that means is that the government cannot have an official religion,  or exclude other religions to favor just one.  It also means that any and all religions could be involved in government,  just as long as the government doesn't pick just one to establish as the state government.

seperation of church and state doesn't mean what many people think.




God finally thank you.


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21879765 - 06/30/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

As far as I'm conncerned, banning anything religious from government means that the government has then established atheism as its official religion.


Atheistic Communism, libs should check out mao and stalin if they like atheistic Communism


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21879768 - 06/30/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
they aren't publicly placing one religion above all other religions just by using the word god. Where the ten commandments is undoubtedly Christian, and favoring one above any others.






It just doesnt matter if there is no specific 'god' they are they are referring to.

the very concept of god implies religion. it doesnt matter which one.

and by oregons standards, that concept needs to be wiped away.



If non-christians have the right to remove a piece of art because it contains the 10 commandments, atheists have every right to remove any reference of any god, of any kind, from public domain

you know, like north korea.


Edited by Adolin (06/30/15 07:32 PM)


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Shins]
    #21879773 - 06/30/15 07:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The people in office can be whatever religion they want to be, and they can let its morals guide them into doing what they think is right for all I care, but I don't think they should be favoring one religion publicly over any other one, because we have freedom of religion in this country and all of them should be respected equally.

They can even go on tv and say they love Jesus, but we shouldn't decorate government property making it look like we have a christian government, we have a secular government.


Edited by SirShroomsAlott (06/30/15 07:40 PM)


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Adolin]
    #21879787 - 06/30/15 07:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:rolleyes:

It seems our society is getting more tolerant yet dumber every day. Making it so fucking complicated when it's not. Let people be people. Fucking Christ.


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Adolin]
    #21879806 - 06/30/15 07:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gresh said:
Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
they aren't publicly placing one religion above all other religions just by using the word god. Where the ten commandments is undoubtedly Christian, and favoring one above any others.






It just doesnt matter if there is no specific 'god' they are they are referring to.

the very concept of god implies religion. it doesnt matter which one.

and by oregons standards, that concept needs to be wiped away.



If non-christians have the right to remove a piece of art because it contains the 10 commandments, atheists have every right to remove any reference of any god, of any kind, from public domain

you know, like north korea.




It matters alot, it does not refer to religion just by referencing god, Thomas Jefferson for example, was a deist, not a theist, god is just a creator, a supreme being, usually coupled with the belief he doesn't really give a shit about the daily lives of humans, not a personal god.

Calling it art is just semantics, it is on state property favoring one religion over another, they can have it on any property they want, a church right nex to the road, out front of their houses, who cares. That is the only thing I disagree with, is government property only depicting one religion and no others. Especially when the man who funded it also passed the bill allowing it to be constructed, he is using his own power to favor his own religion on government property.


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21879828 - 06/30/15 07:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:

It matters alot, it does not refer to religion just referencing god, Thomas Jefferson for example, was a deist, not a theist, god is just a creator, a supreme being, usually coupled with the belief he doesn't really give a shit about the daily lives of humans, not a personal god.





:youseethisshit:

god = religion. i'm sorry, but this is just a fact.


Quote:


Calling it art is just semantics, it is on state property favoring one religion over another, they can have it on any property they want, a church right nex to the road, out front of their houses, who cares. That is the only thing I disagree with, is government property only depicting one religion and no others.




it's not semantics.

it's not favoring any religion over another, either.

It's just sitting there. you dont even have to look at it


Quote:

Especially when the man who funded it also passed the bill allowing it to be constructed, he is using his own power to favor his own religion on government property.





it seems like all he wants is the ability to speak freely

he spent his own money on that statue



Edited by Adolin (06/30/15 07:44 PM)


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Adolin]
    #21879845 - 06/30/15 07:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Well I disagree, I think there's a god, and that's the only thought I give it, because that is the only thing I think I can know about the subject, and that to me isn't a religion in any way, shape, or form. Then why don't they let the Hindu leader or the satanist put up their statues? It's art and they just want to speak freely....oh wait, that's only allowed for Christian's on government property, that's the problem.


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21879847 - 06/30/15 07:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
Quote:

Gresh said:
Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
they aren't publicly placing one religion above all other religions just by using the word god. Where the ten commandments is undoubtedly Christian, and favoring one above any others.






It just doesnt matter if there is no specific 'god' they are they are referring to.

the very concept of god implies religion. it doesnt matter which one.

and by oregons standards, that concept needs to be wiped away.



If non-christians have the right to remove a piece of art because it contains the 10 commandments, atheists have every right to remove any reference of any god, of any kind, from public domain

you know, like north korea.




It matters alot, it does not refer to religion just by referencing god, Thomas Jefferson for example, was a deist, not a theist, god is just a creator, a supreme being, usually coupled with the belief he doesn't really give a shit about the daily lives of humans, not a personal god.

Calling it art is just semantics, it is on state property favoring one religion over another, they can have it on any property they want, a church right nex to the road, out front of their houses, who cares. That is the only thing I disagree with, is government property only depicting one religion and no others. Especially when the man who funded it also passed the bill allowing it to be constructed, he is using his own power to favor his own religion on government property.




You make a good argument I agree. But also who cares? Is it nice? Is there a picture of it? Is it carved on a statue of a dick? That's offensive. But how much money does the state have to pay to move it.


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21879862 - 06/30/15 07:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
Well I disagree, I think there's a god, and that's the only thought I give it, because that is the only thing I think I can know about the subject, and that to me isn't a religion in any way, shape, or form. Then why don't they let the Hindu leader or the satanist put up their statues? It's art and they just want to speak freely....oh wait, that's only allowed for Christian's on government property, that's the problem.





if they were willing to pay enough, they would be allowed.


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Adolin]
    #21879877 - 06/30/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

"Since the original monument was erected in 2012, several other groups have asked to put up their own monuments on the Capitol grounds. Among them is a group that wants to erect a 7-foot-tall statue that depicts Satan as Baphomet, a goat-headed figure with horns, wings and a long beard. A Hindu leader in Nevada, an animal rights group, and the satirical Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster also have made requests."

3 years and still haven't gotten approval, that guy who passed his own bill through is sure taking a long time to let other people do it.


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21879893 - 06/30/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
"Since the original monument was erected in 2012, several other groups have asked to put up their own monuments on the Capitol grounds. Among them is a group that wants to erect a 7-foot-tall statue that depicts Satan as Baphomet, a goat-headed figure with horns, wings and a long beard. A Hindu leader in Nevada, an animal rights group, and the satirical Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster also have made requests."

3 years and still haven't gotten approval, that guy who passed his own bill through is sure taking a long time to let other people do it.





probably because he has more money. which means more lobbying power.

welcome to capitalism


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Shins] * 1
    #21879948 - 06/30/15 08:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
seperation of church and state doesn't mean what many people think.




I think there is a general consensus of what the phrase implies and people that agree with it.

The way I used it was not to say 'it is law and needs to be followed', but that 'IMO there should be no relationship whatsoever between religion and government'.

I mean, did you all just assume anyone who agrees with the idea of 'separation of church and state' thinks it is written in the constitution?


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Shins]
    #21880019 - 06/30/15 08:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

Sksoul said:
Separation of church and state





"Seperation of church and state" is not in the constitution anywhere.  The phrase came from a letter written by one of the founding fathers.

However the constitution does forbid the federal government from "establishment of religion"

what that means is that the government cannot have an official religion,  or exclude other religions to favor just one.  It also means that any and all religions could be involved in government,  just as long as the government doesn't pick just one to establish as the state government.

seperation of church and state doesn't mean what many people think.




:thumbup:


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Shins]
    #21880082 - 06/30/15 08:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
As far as I'm conncerned, banning anything religious from government means that the government has then established atheism as its official religion.


Atheistic Communism, libs should check out mao and stalin if they like atheistic Communism




I know exactly what Mao and Stalin did, they didn't do it in the name of atheism, they did bad things, and happened to be atheist. Hitler was never denounced from the Roman Catholic church and even if he happened to be atheist, 2/3 of his foot soldiers, the ones that actually did the horrible things, were either lutheran or catholic, and wore "god with us" on their belts.

Atheism had nothing to do with what they did, beliefs on the other hand, have been the exact reason why people committed terrible atrocities, in the name of their religion, and there is no convincing someone who thinks they are doing gods work that what they're doing is wrong, they might of turned out to be psychopaths if they didn't have religion as an excuse for all I know, that isn't the point. They didn't do those acts in the name of atheism, and atheism doesn't equate to communism.

Our government, is by definition a secular government, secular means "denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis."...I would very much like our government to be as far from religion as possible.

There were even many very influential people who were deist which is a god does not intervene or interact with humans in any way and works through natural laws. Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, Albert Einstein, and a large majority of the founding fathers who wrote these laws and made this country so great were largely influenced by deism and believed in little supernatural claims in judeo-christian traditions.

We've been a secular government, I just want it to stay that way and make sure it's enforced to the best of its ability. I'm also not an atheist if that was directed at me.


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21880110 - 06/30/15 08:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

OP,not trying do bait, but are you saying "deism" is different than religion? or am i misinterpreting that?


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: Adolin]
    #21880124 - 06/30/15 08:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It could be considered a religion if that's what you're getting at, but basically can't be compared.


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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21880152 - 06/30/15 08:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)



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Re: Supreme court in Oklahoma ruled Ten Commandments Statue must be removed from state Capitol [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21880204 - 06/30/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:nodofunderstanding:



i like alot of what you have to say. after a little looking, there does seem to be a distinction between deism and traditional religion.

i agree with you on most of this, i just think that if they are going to remove one reference to religion, they should remove them all


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