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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleAdden
I'm a teapot
Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
Loc: Flag
Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: Magicman69]
    #21879566 - 06/30/15 06:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Magicman69 said:
I don't particularly like unelected judges writing law that according to the constitution should be written by congress. It sets a bad precedent. With that said I am happy gay marriage is finally legal.




Couldn't have said it better myself.


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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21879573 - 06/30/15 06:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Zap. Your Texas gun law question.

What is of State jurisdiction gets solved in in the State Supreme Court. Only a few State Supreme Court verdict gets appealed in the US Supreme Court and the appeal has to be directly linked to a consitutional conflict.

Judges have to consider the argument and also look at the current state of affairs of the country. For the gay case, most states and a majority of the population had gay marraige, Therefore, those living inside the non-gay marriage were suppresed. The judges had to apply equal treatment everywhere.

As for guns. Too many states have too many different laws for the Judges to make a decision unless the plaintiff has a ridiculously convincing argument. Therefore, Texas law would not be made unanimous by federal law despite the 2nd amendment. Too many discrepancies.

The gay marriage thing was a yes or no and the majority was saying yes


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21879597 - 06/30/15 06:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
There's no slope at all if the laws apply equally to all.



But they don't.  Are we going to get rid of Affirmative Action and income tax brackets?  Are we going to force all states to honor the gun laws of any state?  I am going to say this again.  I have no problem with homos marrying but this decision is so poorly reasoned it beggars belief and opens the door for a whole lot of other mischief.  This is not good.  We were getting there anyway.  I do not know why these people decided to inject themselves at all.  Seriously.  I do not know why they took the case at all.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: Patlal]
    #21879610 - 06/30/15 07:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Zap. Your Texas gun law question.

What is of State jurisdiction gets solved in in the State Supreme Court. Only a few State Supreme Court verdict gets appealed in the US Supreme Court and the appeal has to be directly linked to a consitutional conflict.

Judges have to consider the argument and also look at the current state of affairs of the country. For the gay case, most states and a majority of the population had gay marraige, Therefore, those living inside the non-gay marriage were suppresed. The judges had to apply equal treatment everywhere.

As for guns. Too many states have too many different laws for the Judges to make a decision unless the plaintiff has a ridiculously convincing argument. Therefore, Texas law would not be made unanimous by federal law despite the 2nd amendment. Too many discrepancies.

The gay marriage thing was a yes or no and the majority was saying yes





Aside from the fact that you are mostly incoherent the reasoning in the case largely hinged on the rationale that other states must recognize the marriages from another state


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21879663 - 06/30/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
There's no slope at all if the laws apply equally to all.



But they don't.




No shit.

Quote:

Are we going to get rid of Affirmative Action and income tax brackets?




Hopefully.


Quote:

Are we going to force all states to honor the gun laws of any state?




Hopefully. Your rights don't end at the state line.


Quote:

I am going to say this again.




That's too bad. The level of foolishness you're displaying isn't diminishing.


Quote:

I have no problem with homos marrying but this decision is so poorly reasoned it beggars belief and opens the door for a whole lot of other mischief.




1st. Homos? Really? Thanks for reminding me of part of the reason I stopped interacting much in Politics.
2nd. It was exactly the right decision based on the Constitution you claim to love. There was no other just decision. Any other decision would have been wrong. Legally, constitutionally and morally. 


Quote:

This is not good.  We were getting there anyway.




It is good. It's to the shame of Congress, the state legislatures and homophobes that it took so long. 


Quote:

I do not know why these people decided to inject themselves at all.  Seriously.  I do not know why they took the case at all.




1. It was the right thing to do.
2. The constitution clause on equal treatment is unambiguous. That 4 justices voted the wrong way was/is an embarrassment to them and to those that oppose equal treatment for all.

The 14th is as valid as any of them. Kindly shut the fuck up with your ridiculous indignation.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21879705 - 06/30/15 07:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

judges don't write law; they interpret the law via case rulings that set the legal framework of an issue. having unelected judges is, by design, intended to separate them from the political process. treating judges as if they are oracles through which the law blindly flows is a school of thought that dates back to the middle ages known to jurors as declaratory theory. the more contemporary theory, judicial jurisprudence, takes into account the reality that our appellate judges are political actors because their job necessarily involves making decisions that influence society in relation to its most supreme set of laws. it could be said that conservative judges tend to behave more along the lines of the former theory whereas liberal judges tend to behave according to the latter. but even this is painting with broad strokes because supreme court justices are generally extremely intelligent individuals who think in highly abstract, fluid terms. it's difficult to pin most of them down all the way.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21879770 - 06/30/15 07:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I won't shut up as per my FIRST amendment right. This was being taken care of by the electorate.  Even that homo basher Obama was coming around.  The problem here is judicial over reach.  Do you really want to cede policy to 9 unelected and basically unimpeachable people?  Be careful what you wish for

I use "homo"  because the homosexual people I have known in my life are not "gay".  They are mostly miserable.


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OfflineAcaterpillar
A little mad...
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Registered: 06/09/07
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Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21879794 - 06/30/15 07:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I use "homo"  because the homosexual people I have known in my life are not "gay".  They are mostly miserable.




That sucks. Sounds like you have a bad perception of homosexuals from your limited perspective.

Most of the ones I have met are happier than your average citizen.


--------------------
Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...

At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21879819 - 06/30/15 07:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Quote:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people




Answer my questions.  This is a very slippery slope.  If a state chooses not to issue marriage licenses at all can its citizens sue over disparate tax consequences?  Does NY have to accept Texas gun permits?  You are not thinking this through.  And when will they have to sanction multiple marriages and what will that do to the tax code?

The government should not be in the marriage business at all.



Zappa the tenth ammendment concerns the POWERS of government. The Ninth ammendment concerns the RIGHTS of the people.

Marriage between two adults has been deemed a fundamental right by the court. It is well within its authority to do so, and prescribed by the ninth and 14rh amendments. A fundamental right of the people is not a power granted to a state.

A state must grant a marriage license. Marriage is a fundamental right.


Edited by koods (06/30/15 07:46 PM)


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OfflineAlmond Flour
...get off my lawn!
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Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: Patlal]
    #21879831 - 06/30/15 07:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yes. All worship the supreme court. Thank heavens homosexuals can get married now. AS a straight man, it makes me sleep better at night and sure influences my life.

EVERYTHING, from enjoying my evening beer, to working at my job. Everything has now changed because two guys can receive benefits for making man love.

I seriously cant express how much joy I feel. Its as if everything is suddenly right in the world.



See how fucking stupid it sounds when you say it out loud?


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: Patlal]
    #21879837 - 06/30/15 07:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Does Canada have a surpreme court?




You really, REALLY need to learn about things outside of the US





Sorry, patlal, but nobody worth a damn in the US gives 2 shits about canaduhh


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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Onlinekoods
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Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: Almond Flour]
    #21879846 - 06/30/15 07:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Almond Flour said:
Yes. All worship the supreme court. Thank heavens homosexuals can get married now. AS a straight man, it makes me sleep better at night and sure influences my life.

EVERYTHING, from enjoying my evening beer, to working at my job. Everything has now changed because two guys can receive benefits for making man love.

I seriously cant express how much joy I feel. Its as if everything is suddenly right in the world.



See how fucking stupid it sounds when you say it out loud?




It's not about you. Get over yourself.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineAcaterpillar
A little mad...
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Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21879865 - 06/30/15 07:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I won't shut up as per my FIRST amendment right.




The constitution doesn't apply here...


--------------------
Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...

At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: koods]
    #21879951 - 06/30/15 08:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Quote:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people




Answer my questions.  This is a very slippery slope.  If a state chooses not to issue marriage licenses at all can its citizens sue over disparate tax consequences?  Does NY have to accept Texas gun permits?  You are not thinking this through.  And when will they have to sanction multiple marriages and what will that do to the tax code?

The government should not be in the marriage business at all.



Zappa the tenth ammendment concerns the POWERS of government. The Ninth ammendment concerns the RIGHTS of the people.

Marriage between two adults has been deemed a fundamental right by the court. It is well within its authority to do so, and prescribed by the ninth and 14rh amendments. A fundamental right of the people is not a power granted to a state.

A state must grant a marriage license. Marriage is a fundamental right.




I I do not see the word marriage in either of those.  You are evading the questions.  I am not sure if it is because you don't understand them or because you can't handle them.  In re the powers of the people even in California the people voted it down.  This decision is a usurpation of the power of the people


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: koods]
    #21879956 - 06/30/15 08:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Quote:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people




Answer my questions.  This is a very slippery slope.  If a state chooses not to issue marriage licenses at all can its citizens sue over disparate tax consequences?  Does NY have to accept Texas gun permits?  You are not thinking this through.  And when will they have to sanction multiple marriages and what will that do to the tax code?

The government should not be in the marriage business at all.



Zappa the tenth ammendment concerns the POWERS of government. The Ninth ammendment concerns the RIGHTS of the people.

Marriage between two adults has been deemed a fundamental right by the court. It is well within its authority to do so, and prescribed by the ninth and 14rh amendments. A fundamental right of the people is not a power granted to a state.

A state must grant a marriage license. Marriage is a fundamental right.




No it isn't and no state is required to grant marriage licenses at all


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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21880066 - 06/30/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

states write constitutions as well, and there is certainly language in state constitutions that covers marriage. this would be by the design of our republic and not because the framers weren't considering the most fundamental building block of society when drafting the federal constitution.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


Edited by millzy (06/30/15 08:32 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: millzy]
    #21880114 - 06/30/15 08:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Like I said.  The states and Congress had readily available mechanisms for this and there was absolutely no reason for the SCOTUS to even take the case.  The word marriage does not appear in the Constitution anywhere


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Onlinekoods
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Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: millzy]
    #21880126 - 06/30/15 08:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

A state constitution cannot violate the US constitution nor can it violate rights of the people.

Zappa you continue to ignore the import of the ninth ammendment which is very clear that there are rights that are not enumerated in the constitution.

Here is the key text of the gay marriage decision
Quote:

(4) The right to marry is a fundamental right inherent in the liberty of the person, and under the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment couples of the same-sex may not be deprived of that right and that liberty. Same-sex couples may exercise the fundamental right to marry. Baker v. Nelson is overruled. The State laws challenged by the petitioners in these cases are held invalid to the extent they exclude same-sex couples from civil marriage on the same terms and conditions as opposite-sex couples. 

The Fourteenth Amendment requires States to recognize same- sex marriages validly performed out of State. Since same-sex couples may now exercise the fundamental right to marry in all States, there is no lawful basis for a State to refuse to recognize a lawful same-sex marriage performed in another State on the ground of its same-sex character. 




--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleAdden
I'm a teapot
Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
Loc: Flag
Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #21880136 - 06/30/15 08:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)



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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
Re: I'm starting to like Supreme Courts very much [Re: koods]
    #21880144 - 06/30/15 08:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

actually, the texas constitution has an amendment that violates the u.s. constitution regarding marriage. the reason why we have federal law is to keep the states in line.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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