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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Registered: 10/27/14
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Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21891486 - 07/03/15 06:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

All I know is that I don't know anything -Jesse michals (I guess it was Socrates, but I'm quouting the operation ivy classic "knowledge" only I fixed the errors in linguistics)

-E. Borodin


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OfflineRennHuhn
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Registered: 03/12/15
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Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: sudly]
    #21891520 - 07/03/15 06:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Hahahahaha, ever talked to a neuroscientist? If everything is so well understood where is our ai? And why are we even discussing if hard or emergent ai is the way to go?

All your arguments break down once we assume we live in a simulation.

Or maybe our universe is the event horizon of a 4 dimensional black hole?...
Can higher dimensions interact with other dimension?

We dont know shit and we should stop pretending that consciousness is a solved problem. Even when your standpoint is the most likely based on current knowledge, it is still is prooven by no scientific experiment. And especially you should know better than spouting theories as truth.


Edited by RennHuhn (07/03/15 06:59 AM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,807
Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21891530 - 07/03/15 07:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Sounds like Ebin was a little brain dead and had a release of DMT from the brain inducing hallucinations for a presumed death, lucky for him he survived.

Ok then, go to a scientific comity, knock yourself out and show the world that consciousness is outside the body.

"You really think that when you die consciousness ends?" - yup.
I consider the possibility but I don't accept it as there is no evidence. If there is no evidence, why would I believe it? I don't rely on faith.

wtf... science can be and has been wrong numerous times because evidence was produced that stood up to scrutiny and changed/created ideas. Sometimes claims of evidence don't stand up to scrutiny and therefore aren't accepted, that doesn't mean science is a never wrong all might universal force.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,807
Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: RennHuhn]
    #21891544 - 07/03/15 07:09 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Do you have a point to make or are you just going to state your assumptions?


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: sudly]
    #21891610 - 07/03/15 07:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Who is really making the assumptions here?

-E. Borodin


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21891643 - 07/03/15 07:56 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Who is really making the assumptions here?

-E. Borodin




You are.  You are making shit about science without any substantiation or indication that you know anything about what you are talking about.  You are just spewing bullshit that you assume.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: DieCommie]
    #21891788 - 07/03/15 08:56 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Who is really making the assumptions here?

-E. Borodin




You are.  You are making shit about science without any substantiation or indication that you know anything about what you are talking about.  You are just spewing bullshit that you assume.




Nonsense.

Complete nonsense.

Every reference I make is not met with educated debate on your part, its met with you saying "I know your wrong because accepted science is unable to confirm or debunk the things you consider as valid possibilities,  all you can say is "you don't know what your talking about" which is obviously out of frustration, if your going to defend something that's absurd its easier to discredit those who oppose you than to make a real arguement based on the facts of the matter.

It is you who are saying "I know because I know" as well as making several assumptions, you DONT know and neither does science, so to claim otherwise is just as hypocritical as your denouncing of those who challenge the assumptions of modern science.

Your assuming that science has some sort of idea of what existance actually is.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21893857 - 07/03/15 06:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:Your assuming that science has some sort of idea of what existance actually is.




:yesnod:


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: Universaleyeni]
    #21894081 - 07/03/15 07:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

So I take it you have never had a mushroom/acid/dmt trip in your life that felt any deeper than cool visual effects and some weird thought processes?  I absolutely believe in scientific method and knowledge, that doesn't mean that its stupid of me to believe that in my version of reality that my life experiences while sober, drunk, high, tripping, mentally unstable, dreaming, etc. Wont change what is plausible and what is tottally sci-fi at least in my version of reality.

According to this way of thinking allows me to believe that my consciousness is simply an energetic hot spot in a web of energy that connects all things real. This web could be called the holy spirit by some cultures and Chi by others and the unified field theory by other cultures depending on their past experiences leading up to what made them who they are and what comprises their set of rules for what reality could be. And to back it up I have first hand observation and experiences just as genuine as the first person to scientifically prove that the sun was the center of the universe was. And people that have the emperical point of view of anything be it science or religion, in which their potential for the unknown and the unthinkable is so narrowed be their cultural blinder that they cannot look brightly into the future and see only every possibility at every moment ahead.

I do feel some sorrow that your view of the world ia probably much bleaker than mine because there is a part of me that believes what you would call fantastical probably. I am sorry you did not hold onto your inner childhood imagination where dragon stories blended into seeing a dinosaur skeleton for the first time. I never saw the point of wanting everything in life so defined. It seems boring and slightly depressing and that just isn't what I see on the the sights of the path of my life so far.

Good vibes sudly and diecommie I send em in the hope you allow some potential silliness into your lives.


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: nuentoter]
    #21894249 - 07/03/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nuentoter said:
So I take it you have never had a mushroom/acid/dmt trip in your life that felt any deeper than cool visual effects and some weird thought processes?  I absolutely believe in scientific method and knowledge, that doesn't mean that its stupid of me to believe that in my version of reality that my life experiences while sober, drunk, high, tripping, mentally unstable, dreaming, etc. Wont change what is plausible and what is tottally sci-fi at least in my version of reality.

According to this way of thinking allows me to believe that my consciousness is simply an energetic hot spot in a web of energy that connects all things real. This web could be called the holy spirit by some cultures and Chi by others and the unified field theory by other cultures depending on their past experiences leading up to what made them who they are and what comprises their set of rules for what reality could be. And to back it up I have first hand observation and experiences just as genuine as the first person to scientifically prove that the sun was the center of the universe was. And people that have the emperical point of view of anything be it science or religion, in which their potential for the unknown and the unthinkable is so narrowed be their cultural blinder that they cannot look brightly into the future and see only every possibility at every moment ahead.

I do feel some sorrow that your view of the world ia probably much bleaker than mine because there is a part of me that believes what you would call fantastical probably. I am sorry you did not hold onto your inner childhood imagination where dragon stories blended into seeing a dinosaur skeleton for the first time. I never saw the point of wanting everything in life so defined. It seems boring and slightly depressing and that just isn't what I see on the the sights of the path of my life so far.

Good vibes sudly and diecommie I send em in the hope you allow some potential silliness into your lives.




Not sure if your post was directdd towards my :yesnod:...

If it was, let me clarify. I was agreeing with coincidenceappositorium , that science knows nothing...

I AM the fool on the hill. And have clashed with reliance-on-science, horseblinder rhetoric views of existence on here.

The mystical experience holds more weight in my heart and soul than any amount of scientific knowledge could ever.

:peace:


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: Universaleyeni]
    #21894817 - 07/03/15 10:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Nah it was directed towards sudly and diecommie man. I getcha


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21895484 - 07/04/15 03:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
No, I don't get it. Look up Burden of Proof and The Null Hypothesis.

BTW, anything I hold to be true, I can make a very strong case for.




Can you make a very strong case for the fact that you can make a very strong case for anything you hold to be true? Because I highly doubt it, or maybe you can make a very strong case in your mind just like folks with whom you disagree think in their minds they are making a strong case but its not convincing to you.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: Deviate]
    #21895856 - 07/04/15 08:00 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Nuentoter, I absolutley argree with your statements.

I do practice and value scientific method, but I am also aware of its parameters and limits....

Somethings are not able to be described by scientific method, does this mean we should dismiss them as "not real"?

-E. Borodin


Edited by Coincidentiaoppositorum (07/04/15 08:01 AM)


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21895862 - 07/04/15 08:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Reality is a practically useless concept that serves as a crutch for the weak.  Science is about modeling and predicting observations.  "Reality" is not needed.


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: DieCommie]
    #21898451 - 07/04/15 08:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

So with no reality what are you modeling and predicting the obsservations of?


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,807
Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21898758 - 07/04/15 09:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:

Every reference I make is not met with educated debate on your part, its met with you saying "I know your wrong because accepted science is unable to confirm or debunk the things you consider as valid possibilities,  all you can say is "you don't know what your talking about" which is obviously out of frustration, if your going to defend something that's absurd its easier to discredit those who oppose you than to make a real arguement based on the facts of the matter.

It is you who are saying "I know because I know" as well as making several assumptions, you DONT know and neither does science, so to claim otherwise is just as hypocritical as your denouncing of those who challenge the assumptions of modern science.

Your assuming that science has some sort of idea of what existance actually is.

-E. Borodin




I believe you are wrong because science does not agree with you claims. Just because you consider something to be a possibility does not mean it is true. Again, personal opinion/experience is not evidence for the supernatural. 

There have been plenty of arguments made against your claims but your dogmatic belief system has ignored them.

We know what we know because of testable, observable, repeatable experiments and data that are the evidence for scientific claims.
Science doesn't make assumptions which is why your 'challenges' are disregarded as they have no evidence to back them up beyond personal experience and assumption.

Science has a better idea of reality than purely imaginative thought does.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,807
Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: nuentoter]
    #21898768 - 07/04/15 09:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

"I absolutely believe in scientific method and knowledge, that doesn't mean that its stupid of me to believe that in my version of reality that my life experiences while sober, drunk, high, tripping, mentally unstable, dreaming, etc. Wont change what is plausible and what is tottally sci-fi at least in my version of reality."

Yes, that is stupid.
You cannot make up 'your version' of reality and expect others to accept it simply because you believe it.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: sudly]
    #21899711 - 07/05/15 04:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The thing about "reality" is that it's as highly subjective as a favorite ice cream flavor. Everyone's got one, and tomorrow it might change for you.

Sure, we corroborate each other's "realistic experience" with coinciding supernatural forces such as bills, Internet, work, science, etc.  :lol: but "reality" isn't set in any stone.

So when you have the infinite to work with, stopping at science and a speck of reality is laughable IMO.

:heart:


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: nuentoter]
    #21899870 - 07/05/15 06:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nuentoter said:
So with no reality what are you modeling and predicting the obsservations of?




Anything and everything that can be modeled.  From the observation of a falling ball to the interaction between light and matter.  The relation between these observations and reality (if any) is forever unknown and not relevant to anything but the dreams and desires of mystics and philosophers.  The concept of reality is superfluous to science and indeed to the human experience.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: "I know because I know!" [Re: Universaleyeni]
    #21899877 - 07/05/15 06:52 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Universaleyeni said:
The thing about "reality" is that it's as highly subjective as a favorite ice cream flavor. Everyone's got one, and tomorrow it might change for you.





That is not what reality is.  That is called perception and perspective.  Perception is not reality no matter how much people want it to be.


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