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Invisiblejesuisravi
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question for a general mycologist
    #21876982 - 06/30/15 08:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I am wondering if I could use the tek developed by one of the innovators at this site--what he did was take some tissue from a mature mushroom, osterize it in a certain amount of water, pour the resulting mix over some grain and lo! a couple of weeks later he had viable spawn. All of the preceeding was accomplished, of course, in sterile conditions. My question is: Could one get a mushroom from the supermarket and, using tissue cut from it, duplicate the above mentioned feat? Let's say the mushroom to be cloned would be a button mushroom, to be spawned on rye.


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Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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InvisibleSteveRogers
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Re: question for a general mycologist [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21877009 - 06/30/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jesuisravi said:
I am wondering if I could use the tek developed by one of the innovators at this site--what he did was take some tissue from a mature mushroom, osterize it in a certain amount of water, pour the resulting mix over some grain and lo! a couple of weeks later he had viable spawn. All of the preceeding was accomplished, of course, in sterile conditions. My question is: Could one get a mushroom from the supermarket and, using tissue cut from it, duplicate the above mentioned feat? Let's say the mushroom to be cloned would be a button mushroom, to be spawned on rye.




Thats one way. I just clone the fruit body using the butt of the stem and a plate of agar. there are a few ways to skin a cat, but what you are talking about is cloning. which people are doing as I type this.


--------------------
"General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"


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Offlinematsc
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Re: question for a general mycologist [Re: SteveRogers]
    #21877161 - 06/30/15 09:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I have cloned several grocery store and asian market mushrooms using agar and sterile technique. Its rather satisfying really, ending up with a full plate of a fungus from a tiny cut away chunk.

Enoki was a pain in the ass (so much bacteria....), and most commercial button strains arent particularly friendly to home growing, but by and large it works!


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InvisibleFriedEggS
I'm a teapot


Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
Re: question for a general mycologist [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21877210 - 06/30/15 09:36 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jesuisravi said:
I am wondering if I could use the tek developed by one of the innovators at this site--what he did was take some tissue from a mature mushroom, osterize it in a certain amount of water, pour the resulting mix over some grain and lo! a couple of weeks later he had viable spawn. All of the preceeding was accomplished, of course, in sterile conditions. My question is: Could one get a mushroom from the supermarket and, using tissue cut from it, duplicate the above mentioned feat? Let's say the mushroom to be cloned would be a button mushroom, to be spawned on rye.



You would most likely have to use agar to isolate away from any contams.  A grocery store mushroom is not sterile at all.


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Invisiblejesuisravi
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Re: question for a general mycologist [Re: SteveRogers]
    #21877510 - 06/30/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SteveRogers said:
Quote:

jesuisravi said:
I am wondering if I could use the tek developed by one of the innovators at this site--what he did was take some tissue from a mature mushroom, osterize it in a certain amount of water, pour the resulting mix over some grain and lo! a couple of weeks later he had viable spawn. All of the preceeding was accomplished, of course, in sterile conditions. My question is: Could one get a mushroom from the supermarket and, using tissue cut from it, duplicate the above mentioned feat? Let's say the mushroom to be cloned would be a button mushroom, to be spawned on rye.




Thats one way. I just clone the fruit body using the butt of the stem and a plate of agar. there are a few ways to skin a cat, but what you are talking about is cloning. which people are doing as I type this.




Yes, cloning is the word I was looking for. Thanks for info.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Invisiblejesuisravi
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Registered: 06/24/15
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Re: question for a general mycologist [Re: matsc]
    #21877530 - 06/30/15 10:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

matsc said:
I have cloned several grocery store and asian market mushrooms using agar and sterile technique. Its rather satisfying really, ending up with a full plate of a fungus from a tiny cut away chunk.

Enoki was a pain in the ass (so much bacteria....), and most commercial button strains arent particularly friendly to home growing, but by and large it works!




What store bought mushroom did you find easiest--I have never done anything but raise P. Cubensis--I couldn't find any in my local market (funny about that) so I had to order some online.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Invisiblejesuisravi
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Registered: 06/24/15
Posts: 260
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Re: question for a general mycologist [Re: FriedEgg]
    #21877538 - 06/30/15 10:56 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

FriedEgg said:
Quote:

jesuisravi said:
I am wondering if I could use the tek developed by one of the innovators at this site--what he did was take some tissue from a mature mushroom, osterize it in a certain amount of water, pour the resulting mix over some grain and lo! a couple of weeks later he had viable spawn. All of the preceeding was accomplished, of course, in sterile conditions. My question is: Could one get a mushroom from the supermarket and, using tissue cut from it, duplicate the above mentioned feat? Let's say the mushroom to be cloned would be a button mushroom, to be spawned on rye.



You would most likely have to use agar to isolate away from any contams.  A grocery store mushroom is not sterile at all.




I think you are right. I would use the Pastywhyte tek.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: question for a general mycologist [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21877539 - 06/30/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

What store bought mushroom did you find easiest--I have never done anything but raise P. Cubensis--I couldn't find any in my local market (funny about that) so I had to order some online.




That's not a surprise. They are illegal in the u.s. so you definitely won't find them in a grocery store!


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InvisibleFriedEggS
I'm a teapot


Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
Re: question for a general mycologist [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21877542 - 06/30/15 10:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

That's an excellent tek.  You'll love it :thumbup:


--------------------

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Offlinematsc
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Re: question for a general mycologist [Re: FriedEgg]
    #21877556 - 06/30/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Easiest to clone was probably King Oyster (nice big body to cut into to get sterile chunks from). Birch, Maitake, Shiitake, and Button (portobello, etc) were also quite easy. Morels are tough, as their fruiting bodies are usually parasitized by a species of Rhizopus or Mucor that will rear its ugly head in culture. And Enoki's are so tiny that its a pain to get to sterile tissue, and you often end up with massive bacterial blooms (I was lucky enough to have antibiotic media to grow on for isolation, but others may not have the luxury).

If you dont have any asian grocery stores in town, try a Gourmet/Organic/Health Food store like Whole Foods or Sprouts, they also tend to have a decent selection of fungi to choose from.


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Invisiblejesuisravi
The Old Noob
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Registered: 06/24/15
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Re: question for a general mycologist [Re: natedawgnow]
    #21877595 - 06/30/15 11:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

natedawgnow said:
What store bought mushroom did you find easiest--I have never done anything but raise P. Cubensis--I couldn't find any in my local market (funny about that) so I had to order some online.




That's not a surprise. They are illegal in the u.s. so you definitely won't find them in a grocery store!




to quote my boyhood hero Maynard G. Krebs: Surely you jest.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Invisiblejesuisravi
The Old Noob
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Registered: 06/24/15
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Re: question for a general mycologist [Re: FriedEgg]
    #21877602 - 06/30/15 11:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

FriedEgg said:
That's an excellent tek.  You'll love it :thumbup:




I have used other agar teks--years ago now--but Pasty's beats them all, by the look of it, for simplicity.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Invisiblejesuisravi
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Re: question for a general mycologist [Re: matsc]
    #21877628 - 06/30/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

matsc said:
Easiest to clone was probably King Oyster (nice big body to cut into to get sterile chunks from). Birch, Maitake, Shiitake, and Button (portobello, etc) were also quite easy. Morels are tough, as their fruiting bodies are usually parasitized by a species of Rhizopus or Mucor that will rear its ugly head in culture. And Enoki's are so tiny that its a pain to get to sterile tissue, and you often end up with massive bacterial blooms (I was lucky enough to have antibiotic media to grow on for isolation, but others may not have the luxury).

If you dont have any asian grocery stores in town, try a Gourmet/Organic/Health Food store like Whole Foods or Sprouts, they also tend to have a decent selection of fungi to choose from.




As a matter of fact I have the good fortune to live in a town where there are several Asian markets. Also we have two Valli stores in town that have an isle devoted to Chinese gastronomy(by which they mean every place east of India, from what I can gather) and maybe I can find something dried. Can one do this with dried tissue?


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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Offlinematsc
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Re: question for a general mycologist [Re: matsc]
    #21877717 - 06/30/15 11:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

In some cases, if you're lucky, but usually they use heat to dry the fungi and it pretty well kills most of the cells. Also the drying is done in non-sterile conditions so you can end up with some funky contamination. It is worth a shot if you have the time and the inclination, but don't get your hopes up for miracles.

That said I have managed to clone from dried samples before, with some oysters collected in my local mountains, but I have no idea if I could repeat that particular experience.


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Invisiblejesuisravi
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Re: question for a general mycologist [Re: matsc]
    #21882706 - 07/01/15 12:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

matsc said:
In some cases, if you're lucky, but usually they use heat to dry the fungi and it pretty well kills most of the cells. Also the drying is done in non-sterile conditions so you can end up with some funky contamination. It is worth a shot if you have the time and the inclination, but don't get your hopes up for miracles.

That said I have managed to clone from dried samples before, with some oysters collected in my local mountains, but I have no idea if I could repeat that particular experience.




In that case I think I will stick to hydrated specimens. Thanks much for the information.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: question for a general mycologist [Re: matsc]
    #21882981 - 07/01/15 01:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

matsc said:
I have cloned several grocery store and asian market mushrooms using agar and sterile technique. Its rather satisfying really, ending up with a full plate of a fungus from a tiny cut away chunk.

Enoki was a pain in the ass (so much bacteria....), and most commercial button strains arent particularly friendly to home growing, but by and large it works!




This makes me soooooo happy to hear!!! Can't wait to start that. Ashame about the enoki's - that's the edible I want to grow the most (I love Korean food)- the store I go to has enoki's in bunches still attached to the substrate- would taking a culture from it be better?


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: question for a general mycologist [Re: TravelAgency]
    #21883045 - 07/01/15 02:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Why not just buy a culture? By the time you see a mushroom in a store it's likely ran to the point of senescence.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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Offlinematsc
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Re: question for a general mycologist [Re: TravelAgency]
    #21883052 - 07/01/15 02:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

By all means please, give the enokis a try. The substrate may have better luck than the fruiting body certainly. You could also play with growth conditions. Enoki are relatively cold hardy, so growing at say, 65-70F could maybe let the fungi "out pace" any bacteria leaving you with some clean mycelia to isolate from. Experiment!

You could also try surface sterilizing. Make up a 10% bleach solution and dip the mushroom (or a chunk thereof) in. How long you dip may take some experimentation, but id suggest something like 0s (quick dip), 2s, 5s, 10s. Then dip it in some sterile water to rinse the bleach off and plate it. It's a trick I learned in plant pathology for culturing fungi growing within a plant rather than on a plant, and it may work for this situation as well.


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