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Miller619
Psychobabble


Registered: 06/29/15
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ID san pedro/peruvian torch
#21875723 - 06/29/15 09:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hello, I am new to the forum. I recently bought three cacti, allegedly san pedro and I need help IDing them as mescaline containing cacti, thanks in advance.
https://imageshack.com/i/hlmrD2FAj
https://imageshack.com/i/ipZm8OfSj
https://imageshack.com/i/f0YHz9Qjj
-------------------- Give a man drugs and he will see eternity for a day, teach a man how to grow drugs and he will be eternity... My trichocereus sacred garden
Edited by Miller619 (06/29/15 09:38 PM)
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karode13
Tāne Mahuta




Registered: 05/19/05
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Re: ID san pedro/peruvian torch [Re: Miller619]
#21875771 - 06/29/15 09:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes, all Three are Trichocereus sp. Not all are San Pedros, or typical T. pachanoi though. Looks like you have one T. pachanoi, one T. peruvianus and a seed grown plant, that you'll never really know the origin of unless you find out where the seeds came from.
Take this id with a grain of salt. Lots of seed grown plants out there and your pictures aren't the best to make accurate id's. Even if pictures were excellent it can still be hard to make accurate id's, as the taxonomy of these plants is quite hazy.
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Miller619
Psychobabble


Registered: 06/29/15
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Re: ID san pedro/peruvian torch [Re: karode13]
#21875814 - 06/29/15 09:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thank you, the seller told me they were trichocereus and if they are positively trichocereus its a good thing cause I can acquire them extremely easy amd cheap where I live.
-------------------- Give a man drugs and he will see eternity for a day, teach a man how to grow drugs and he will be eternity... My trichocereus sacred garden
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kizatzhaddarak
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Re: ID san pedro/peruvian torch [Re: Miller619]
#21877071 - 06/30/15 08:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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(chuckes at "taxonomy") from you, Karode.. lol
Yeah Trichocereus, Echinopsis. . as well as species name changes. I always label the tags for my plants, with the variety name the seed supplier sold to me. otherwise it gets a Generic (genus name), with an (Sp), after the genus name, for questionable species or hybrid.
There are starting to be some interesting hybrids coming out of California, now.
I intend to do some breeding and maybe even hybridization later down the road.
-------------------- The Sleeper Must Awaken! (I do not advocate the ingestion of any substance without extensive research, and or the advice of trained medical and or spiritual personelle)
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Miller619
Psychobabble


Registered: 06/29/15
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Thanks, so with all the haziness about the sp. they are positively ID'd as a mescaline positive cacti? Thank you for your reply.
-------------------- Give a man drugs and he will see eternity for a day, teach a man how to grow drugs and he will be eternity... My trichocereus sacred garden
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BigHeart
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Re: ID san pedro/peruvian torch [Re: Miller619]
#21882375 - 07/01/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Miller619 said: Thanks, so with all the haziness about the sp. they are positively ID'd as a mescaline positive cacti? Thank you for your reply.
Yes, but how much is anyone's guess. If they're cheap I'd buy them all
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



Registered: 10/18/10
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Re: ID san pedro/peruvian torch [Re: Miller619]
#21883279 - 07/01/15 03:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Miller619 said: Thanks, so with all the haziness about the sp. they are positively ID'd as a mescaline positive cacti? Thank you for your reply.
I can say that almost all, excl. san pedro, PC aka. predominant cultivar clone will have most likely mescaline, especially if they're sold as label as "san pedro" ..PC have it as well but clones here is 2-5x more potent. Maybe even more than 2-5times.
Noone of me friends have said they want so big doses people use with PC clone. Doses there seems to be very small. Some clones may be very potent in EU nurseries. But noone know them exactly how potent they are because many nurseries I've been involved with can't sell those plants as drugs but yea... "All trichocereus of mine have drugs(=mescaline) in them" ..Older guy in nursery said to me.
I've understand san pedro as word means mescaline containing cactus plant. And for example European continent, there are lots of different clones. Seedlings especially look all same till you grow them longer time.
My point just is, I haven't find cactus without mescaline, but I rather not say the species of them more accurately. I estimate the potency depends genetics of plant and how you take care of it. But somethin like of 0.5% to 3% is plausible to find here. (Estimated by taken doses)
Years ago I was really surprised and only littlebit of dried stuff did the magik. Person who ingest it think I was purposely given him a strong dose of cacti, even tho I just didn't know the actual strength of it. We were literally tripping hard by splitting small amount to half only small amount. It was a potent one accidentally. Friend seriously doubt I was purposely given him too much mescaline even it was pure accident. That one clone really were very potent pachanoi. I've experienced as well that side of mescaline, I mean. Plant is accidentally 2-3x more potent than other cuttings were.
Anyway, I've exprienced very strong san pedro's in EU completely by accident. But all cuttings/seedlings (excl. cuzconoidz) have had mescaline in the plant. The amount will vary a lot and doses can't be talked because it's not so relevant imo. But only handful of dried skin can be potent enough to give an experience.
Example, I would not even dare to take more than one ounce of dried unknown san pedro. Especially if I don't know the clone because they may be "too potent"... Basically you have to consume "enough" to have good trip from plant and only way is testing it yourself to know the clone, or friend of you have to test the clone and say the potency. Smaller plants I suggest to grow few years with good fertilizing and then ingest.
Drying the plant isn't EG topic but anyway, best way to find out how much you have plant is just drying the skin of it and use scale to dried weight, so you know next time how much is enough. Cuttings what haven't been dried is hard to say because weight of them changes depends persentage of water in the plant.
Ofc you can see weight of fresh clone but best way to know how much you have been taken is simply using the dried tissue. Also comparing it to another plants makes it easier when using dried material and see always before experience how much dried stuff you are going to take.
Erowid source says it's 15-100g dried dose. I've find out people use here +20g doses, max 40-50g if they want stronger trip. I haven't heard anyone say they want to ingest more than about +1ounce dried. Just saying because more potent the plant is, easier it is to ingest "too much" ..even tho it doesn't feel so bad at all.
There isn't much san pedro's around without mescaline but obviously, I haven't and I can't test nor want to test all clones possible. But they have all the smell there should be.
But I've taken enough of compound so I just don't feel comfortable anymore with psychedelics. I just like to grow potent clones as ornaments. One strong trip by accident was enough to my head. And my mind set turned to "I've seen it all"-mode. After than my need for drugs and psychedelics just vanished. Except I always like to smoke pot, but it's different.
Edited by intelligentlife (07/01/15 03:46 PM)
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kosmokratorshaman
Cosmic Creator

Registered: 05/13/15
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"There isn't much san pedro's around without mescaline but obviously, I haven't and I can't test nor want to test all clones possible. But they have all the smell there should be."
Can you clarify what you mean by "the smell?"
-------------------- I am.
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



Registered: 10/18/10
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Nah sorry, it's not plant cultivation nor topic of EG anymore in that sense. And.. I can't turn the odor to in to form of text anyway.
If I do cuttings, I actually can smell "that" odor always have been there when I've been seen people cook the stuff and cut the plant apart to pieces. Non-active beverages or fresh cuts as well doesn't have that certain odor indicates presence of psychoactivity. I've been as tripsitter several times. I can't say how much there is magik based to odor I can smell from plant, but I can't say how strong it is based on that. Lots of different cutting clones, all active ones, most of 'em have always same odor and it's nice indicator. I've never being wrong based on odor and always "quessed" right about they are indeed psychoactive with certain odor. For example, different lophophora as well have different odor when they are cut for grafts etc. Diffusa, Fricii and Williamsii have different odor as well. For my nose there's lots of odors from different species of cactus plants. I smell different odors from those clearly, depens what species I'm gonna use to take cuttings or grafting.
Anyway, I can smell even small bag of weed from pocket of friend. Happened many times. I have relatively good sense of smell anyway.
Edited by intelligentlife (07/01/15 06:47 PM)
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BigHeart
Burner

Registered: 05/30/14
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You'll know the smell once you know it, it's like nothing else.
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kosmokratorshaman
Cosmic Creator

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Re: ID san pedro/peruvian torch [Re: BigHeart]
#21884956 - 07/01/15 08:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ill take a close whiff next time I make cuts.
-------------------- I am.
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Miller619
Psychobabble


Registered: 06/29/15
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Re: ID san pedro/peruvian torch [Re: BigHeart]
#21885087 - 07/01/15 09:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Really didn't know about the smell to be honest, sounds magical
-------------------- Give a man drugs and he will see eternity for a day, teach a man how to grow drugs and he will be eternity... My trichocereus sacred garden
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cowsRmeat
Don't step on the MomeRaths



Registered: 04/23/14
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Quote:
intelligentlife said: For example, different lophophora as well have different odor when they are cut for grafts etc.
So, what is your stance of the potency of grafted lophs vs non grafted lophs? I assume you believe grafted ones to be not as potent as non-grafted?
-------------------- One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. 'Which road do I take?' she asked. 'Where do you want to go?' was his response. 'I don't know', Alice answered. 'Then', said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.'
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



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Re: ID san pedro/peruvian torch [Re: cowsRmeat]
#21885807 - 07/02/15 12:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
cowsRmeat said:
Quote:
intelligentlife said: For example, different lophophora as well have different odor when they are cut for grafts etc.
So, what is your stance of the potency of grafted lophs vs non grafted lophs? I assume you believe grafted ones to be not as potent as non-grafted?
I can say they have for sure mescaline. I don't know amounts. Haven't consumed any lophs. I just know the smell by doing grafts. Peyote have own odor I mean.
Grafted or not, scions will have mescaline but I can't say are there less or more to own root plant. Haven't consumed peyote plants at all.
Only I know, grafted ones are as well active ones as well. Especially those taken good care of. If they are grafted from seedlings ofc there's a small persentage vary from weak to strong, depends on button. I don't think own root plants have so much more mescaline than grafted ones.
Maybe, maybe... Grafted ones in good cultivation may have more psychoactive substances when compared to own root grown plants and time. IDK much. Haven't paid much attention to actual psychoactivity of peyote, I just know grafted and own root plants, both have mescaline in tissue of plant.
I haven't compared own root and grafted peyotes by eating because IMO it's pointless. Both buttons will be psychoactive anyway if they are cultivated and fertilized properly for example. I know for sure grafted buttons are psychoactive as well and they vary like peyote in habitat, one button may be stronger than another etc.
Big buttons enough should always have mescaline on it. Just because it's peyote. And I know buttons grown as grafted have mescaline as well. But enough of that.
I think grafting and non-grafting doesn't matter so much. They may have a bit difference but compared to time how long it takes to grow "big enough" button to harvest. Grafting seems to be faster way to produce mescaline to peyote buttons. IMO.
I think it depends how you cultivate your peyote but I don't say it there. I mean possible way how to get maximizing mescaline content to cactus plant.
But: I haven't studied mescaline in peyote much.. I just assume they all are active ones, grafted or not. Mescaline content may be possible to get increased but I don't say that theory yet because I'm not sure.. It seems it's cultivation related about how much mescaline those buttons have in them. Ofc genetics of plant define the persentage of mescaline but seems there's different way to cause plant have more or less mescaline in it.
Im not sure about that so I don't write anymoe about that before I know it better. But theory I've think seems very plausible.
Molecule doesn't lie in that sense. And plant needs certain "building block" to build the molecule of mescaline and plant can have it only one way.
Edited by intelligentlife (07/02/15 12:43 AM)
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karode13
Tāne Mahuta




Registered: 05/19/05
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Mescaline Hcl doesn't have a smell so I'd like to know what it is that you're smelling. Bitterness is mentioned more than smell as an indicator, and I'd have to side with that over being able to smell anything.
It just doesn't make any sense and is why I'm asking. Not being a dick or anything.
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BigHeart
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Re: ID san pedro/peruvian torch [Re: karode13]
#21886776 - 07/02/15 08:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's mescaline in a salt form though. Mescaline in the cactus is in freebase form right? Plus it's in aqueous solution so the little bits that are evaporating into the air are what you smell from a fresh cactus cut. I think it might be comparable to how table salt doesn't have much smell either, yet you can smell the salty air by the ocean.
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



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Re: ID san pedro/peruvian torch [Re: karode13]
#21888720 - 07/02/15 03:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think I smell something. Anyway, afaik plant have only freebase mescaline in tissue.(?) Salt and freebase may change odor. I've seen salt as well and it doesn't have odor same to fresh cuts. I'm not sure but it may possible freebase phenetylamines can smell like MDMA crystals created from safrole. But it's safrole odor etc..
Afaik, phenethylamines in plant are all freebase "liquid" and I assume maybe those phenethylamines cause the odor from fresh cut what isn't in crystal hcl salt.
Anyway, tasting is more easier and the certain taste always indicates to mescaline, but I've noticed I smell always same smell when beverage is potent. (or if I take cuttings, I can smell does it smell "good one")
OR there's a mixture of molecules in plant causing certain smell, idk. I know it should not smell, but I mean cutting(living plant) it self have the smell, salt doesn't. I'm sure I can smell from fresh cut is it psychoactive or not anyway. I just can't say how strong it is. non-psychoactive cuttings have kinda different odor. And beverage smells different when people have boiled it. It's rather strong odor to my nose, I mean boiling beverage.
I can "confirm" the mescaline by tasting but I've noticed I can actually just smell the cut to know are there any. Something odor-like molecule there is indicating psychoactivity of plant. I've never quessed wrong based on fresh cut odor.
I haven't studied about could it be freebase chemical cocktail in plant causing the odor then.. I've been "check" many cuttings simply by making a slice and smell is it "real san pedro" or not. Atleast cuttings of those going around there.
Dried skin have as well odor but it's not so strong at all but those can be tasted to check is there any good stuff in plant. But like I said, I can't say how much % plant have because odor can be same but clones may have potency varietys. I mean I can't separate poor potency and strong one based on odor of fresh cut tho.
But one thing is for sure, I have rather good sent of smell. I can smell odors so minimal my friends can't smell them so effectively. There's something in fresh cuts causing them to have always same smell, especially when it's psychoactive one. BUT: For example I can't say is there 0.5% or 2% in the cuttings. Tasting is easier to check is potent or less potent. And ofc later on in beverage form potency is easy to taste and smell anyway.
Beverages people use here occasionally contains acetate or citrate mescaline salt(depends what acid you use to get phenetylamines to salt form and dissolving to water) and phenethylamines they can be tasted obviously from the beverage but talking about that isn't anymore plant cultivation.
You can actually cook beverage in 1-1,5hour by using small amount of acid so phenetylamines goes to salt and actually dissolve to hot water rather fast. I've never seen anyone cook the plant more than max 2hours with acid compound to turn the phenetylamine mixture to salt form and allow it to dissolve to water faster as salt.
But I don't need to say here how beverage can be done fast with few drops of lemon in one hour. But boiling the plant long time doesn't make difference to ~1hour boiling with lemon or vinegar. I don't tell exact amount of acid I've seen people use but it's not relevant anymore.
I've experienced long time ago only 40min cooked beverage and had very strong experience out of it. Same clone had same level of effects with ~5hours of boiling so it'll rather dissolve to water very fast.
It should be prepared first before doing the beverage to get all out there fast and so on. I haven't find similar tek to get beverage done fast from internet but it's very easy I say. Heat can be used very very much but I don't tell how long, it's not relevant as well.
Edited by intelligentlife (07/02/15 04:20 PM)
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Miller619
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So, you seem well informed on the subject. I have read about dosages and it is confusing at best, 12", 2 feet, 30g dry. Assuming fresh is about 0.04 (according to an scientific article from Peru) and dry it's about 0.4 avg. you would have to take upwards of 12" to have a decent trip. I was thinking about 24" or about 1000 g fresh, maybe a bit more to amount to 300+ of mescaline, I intend to have a VERY strong trip but yet (since I'm planning to grow my cacti a good 6 months to a year) don't want to waste any material, I feel I have one shot haha. What dosage do you think is good for a Heavy trip, considering they might have low mescaline content. i dont care If I go over, juat dont want to go under the dosage. Thank you.. Btw it's not for recreational effects as it's more for spiritual/religious effects. And I'm quite experienced with psychedelics and other kind of drugs.
-------------------- Give a man drugs and he will see eternity for a day, teach a man how to grow drugs and he will be eternity... My trichocereus sacred garden
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



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Re: ID san pedro/peruvian torch [Re: Miller619]
#21890981 - 07/03/15 12:47 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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We can't talk about dosages here.
I mean not accurately.
I can say one fresh kilo may yield 10-100grams dry approx. Older fat section have bigger vascular ring and it should be removed when you dry the material.
Those cuttings yield different amounts of dried, depends from vascular ring etc. And water in the plant may fool with calculation. Dried skin is IMO always proper way to measure dose. Even at first times because then you know really how much (in weight) you have ingested.
You can't calculate dry weight from fresh cutting weight, it may vary lot!
I just say, don't use inches and fresh plant when you talking about plant. In theory one 12" cutting should give experience but not always. Sometimes 12" may be too much to someone.
Anyway, even tho. Me, I and my friend(+peeps) have taken mescaline several times and they say there's never "enough"
I don't want to give info from doses but if you want to play safe (not so heavy trip) just test 15-20grams. Littlebit under 1 ounce. Then you know and have reference to future how much to ingest to get mindblow. Two guys here tripped relatively hard and they had only 35grams split for two person.
I mean: you just have to find out yourself how much to take. But no matter how potent plant is, 15-20grams of dried skin wont cause excessive overdose. (If so, cutting is VERY potent)
I can't say more about doses, starting to get off from gardening.
Edited by intelligentlife (07/03/15 12:52 AM)
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Miller619
Psychobabble



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Thank you, I'll guess I'll try 15-25 grams then. I doubt I can post links yet but I found the best article one Trichocereus sp. alkaloid content (its in spanish though) it's scientific and they analyzed about 6kg of fresh cacti (including sking, core, etc.) and measured dried skin only, turned out to w something around 150g. It says it's 46.3:1 ratio from fresh full cactus to dry skin. Just thought it would be useful to say as I've read a lot of forums of San Pedro and approaching weight seems to be an issue
-------------------- Give a man drugs and he will see eternity for a day, teach a man how to grow drugs and he will be eternity... My trichocereus sacred garden
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