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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit....
    #21873305 - 06/29/15 11:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)



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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #21873603 - 06/29/15 01:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Bernie's the man.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #21873720 - 06/29/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Hell yeah! Feel the Bern! :laugh:


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #21874260 - 06/29/15 04:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

i'll take him over hill+billy, or jeb, trump, or most of the others. Paul rand I would take too. But, since what the people want means little, we will get hitlery vs jeb most likely. Vote third party otherwise you will be wasting your vote in that scenario.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleCitizen X
Call me Pepper,,
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21874287 - 06/29/15 04:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)



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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Citizen X]
    #21879785 - 06/30/15 07:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Bernie Sanders... the Democrats Ron Paul... lol.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21880931 - 06/30/15 11:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Bernie Sanders is doing quite well. I really do think he has a pretty good shot. He's polling better than Obama was at this point in the race in many places. I think he just has to build name recognition and get his message out, which he seems to be doing.

I've been saying from the start that he had a shot this election, and he seems to be doing quite well. He has drawn the largest crowds of any candidate from either party.

I love Bernie. He's a man of integrity and ideals, and he cares about American people.

I want to see Sanders vs Trump :wink: lmao!!


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleJayZ Morgan
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21880969 - 06/30/15 11:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Bernie sanders speaks with intent of helping his fellow Americans progress even if half of them are stupid and won't vote for him . Bernie still loves them , he loves all of us and you can hear love when he speaks  . He doesn't speak out his ass , or out his neck , or out any smelly orfice politics spew words from , he speaks through the heart of a real persons soul. He's just a man . not a machine


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: JayZ Morgan]
    #21880983 - 07/01/15 12:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Ron Paul won a lot of shit. Polled real well. RNC changed their rules to keep people like him from accidentally winning a nomination.
You'll see democrats, you'll see.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21881008 - 07/01/15 12:12 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I was an avid Ron Paul supporter. He didn't have as much support this early in the race, and he was also a fringe right-winger in a liberal leaning country. Libertarian idealists are better than corporatist fascists, even to a Liberal, so he had some support from the youth via the internet. That and Ron Paul had integrity and a coherent philosophy. Bernie has huge support on the internet, which has become as influential, if not more, than the mainstream news media. He is also getting much better coverage on the news than Ron Paul did. Bernie Murdock must not have been a fan. He likes the status quo just fine! :wink:

He's probaby getting more coverage because he's 1 of only 2 real contenders on the left also. It really is a different game. They barely have any dirt on Bernie, his message resonates incredibly well with the people, he's not corporately backed financially, he's gaining on Hillary, etc. People voted Obama in for change, and they didn't get it. That doesn't mean they don't still want it. Plus liberals are getting amped up by the recent scotus decisions. I think their starting to see that politics can work for them!


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/01/15 12:16 AM)


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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21881502 - 07/01/15 03:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Ron Paul is a bona-fide nut, and Rand isn't much better. They push a downright sociopathic agenda based on pure selfishness and greed. Barney's quite sane, and he genuinely wants to make things better for as many as possible. Maybe he won't get the nod, but I'm damned sure going to vote in the primary next March.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #21881578 - 07/01/15 04:09 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Hi, Im bernie Sanders, Do you hate paying for things? and working? vote for me!


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21881591 - 07/01/15 04:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
Hi, Im bernie Sanders, Do you hate paying for things? and working? vote for me!



Please provide evidence that he that he supports people who don't want to work.  It's the straw-man that won't die.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinelurkmode
Stranger


Registered: 05/20/08
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21882052 - 07/01/15 08:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
Hi, Im bernie Sanders, Do you hate paying for things? and working? vote for me!





Hi, I'm SneezinPenis, Do you hate reading things? and thinking for yourself? I'm a moron!


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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: lurkmode]
    #21882136 - 07/01/15 09:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Naw, Sneezy is a smart guy, just misinformed and misguided is all.


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Offlinelurkmode
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #21882155 - 07/01/15 09:35 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

so, he's saying Bernie wants to make things free so you don't have to work? Got it ... really smart!


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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: lurkmode]
    #21882180 - 07/01/15 09:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Naw, just misled by the Koch Brother's and others lies and obfuscations. Never, ever trust a billionaire. They tend to be sociopaths.


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InvisibleCitizen X
Call me Pepper,,
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: lurkmode]
    #21882296 - 07/01/15 10:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lurkmode said:
so, he's saying Bernie wants to make things free so you don't have to work? Got it ... really smart!



Hey this sounds familiar?


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Citizen X]
    #21882395 - 07/01/15 10:47 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

For your perusal and reference, Bernie Sander want to implement a Democratic Socialism. Now before your heads explode, let me clarify: He does NOT want something like what North Korea, Venezuala and the Soviet Socialism has created.. His vision is copying Scandinavian Socialism like that found in Norway. THe CIA factbooks says of Norway's economy; 

The Norwegian economy is a prosperous mixed economy, with a vibrant private sector, a large state sector, and an extensive social safety net. The government controls key areas, such as the vital petroleum sector, through extensive regulation and large-scale state-majority-owned enterprises. The country is richly endowed with natural resources - petroleum, hydropower, fish, forests, and minerals - and is highly dependent on the petroleum sector, which accounts for the largest portion of export revenue and about 30% of government revenue. Norway is the world's third-largest natural gas exporter; and seventh largest oil exporter, making one of its largest offshore oil finds in 2011. Norway opted to stay out of the EU during a referendum in November 1994; nonetheless, as a member of the European Economic Area, it contributes sizably to the EU budget. In anticipation of eventual declines in oil and gas production, Norway saves state revenue from the petroleum sector in the world's largest sovereign wealth fund, valued at over $870 billion in December 2014 and annually uses up to 4% of the fund, it’s projected long term return, to help finance public expenses. After solid GDP growth in 2004-07, the economy slowed in 2008, and contracted in 2009, before returning to positive growth in 2010-14. Nevertheless, the government budget remains in surplus. Lower oil prices in 2015 may cause the economy to contract as higher costs production costs in the North Sea deter investment.

The Cia Factbook

Also read this aricle in Inc. for better look at Norway as well.


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #21882439 - 07/01/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

This thread just proves to me how much of a cult of personality Bernie Sanders really is.
"Bernie is love. Bernie is life."

Just like Obama was.


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Think for yourself, question authority


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: psyconaught]
    #21882452 - 07/01/15 11:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

And likely, he be the same dismal quality President as the dumb-fuck we have now.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21882505 - 07/01/15 11:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I want to see rand paul vs Bernie. But it won't happen. It will be the tired old jeb vs crooked hill+billy and all the left wing loonies will vote for hitlery even as they tell you how terrible she is. Vote third party and don't waste your vote.

I have to write it hill+billy because pris gets upset if I use a - instead of the +. He may come down on this too since I pointed it out. Oh well, when you take hill you have to take billy, the tag team con men of politics.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Offlinelurkmode
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21882609 - 07/01/15 11:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Obama is killing it and his approval rating is climbing. Only pissy little bitches don't like him. They're inconsequential now anyway because the losers they like will never be elected president.

Hillary is the anti-christ, Bernie is a Socialist ... BOO!

Right-wingers can go fuck themselves and it's good for the country that they're dying off like mayflies.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: lurkmode]
    #21882764 - 07/01/15 12:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Hi, Im bernie sanders. Is your absolute minimal effort in life not being properly monetarily incentivized? vote for me!


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: lurkmode] * 2
    #21882822 - 07/01/15 01:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lurkmode said:
Obama is killing it




Obama is killing it alright. The Dems have lost the Senate, the House, the majority of governorships and the majority of state legislatures.

Of course with the Republicans being as stupid as the Democrats, just in differing ways, they'll blow it soon enough. Then the Dems will blow it. Then the Reps. Then the Dems. Lather, rinse, repeat. It will be forever thus.

A divided government is the best government. The more divided, the better.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #21882851 - 07/01/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

>Obama is killing it alright. The Dems have lost the Senate, the House, the majority of governorships and the majority of state legislatures.

The most incompetent pres ever, broke more promises than any other, and brought big govt and big brother to us more than any other pres. Blindly supported by those who can't see past party label.

Its all a game, a pro wrestling act to fool the gullible into thinking there is some sort of choice between the two halves of the republicrats. Vote third party if you hope to ever get out of this mess. Vote Bernie in the primary if you are a dem, paul if you are a gop. Then vote third when you are presented with jeb vs hitlery.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Offlinepsilynut
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21882955 - 07/01/15 01:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Third party who? How would a third group of dishonest fucks fucking us over change anything ?  Are we really supposed believe third party would be any different ? They have to suck dick for money to get elected just like everyone else .
  Vote gop or libertarian if you think info wars is a credible news source and jade helm 15 is taking over Texas . Or if your white and think whitey is under attack , think God cares about fags getting married , or just really want  to to see rich people get a tax break , ss privatized and poor folks welfare taken away .
  If you want the opposite of that , because in reality town the two main party's are not the same at all , vote for Bern .
      I remember the end of the bush presidency like it was yesterday everything was fucked .  During his final days in office we were losing 800,000 jobs per month . Obamas  presidency is looking like it is going to end so much better . And how  things are when your term is over is  what matters it what people remember you for .


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Offlinelurkmode
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: psilynut]
    #21883014 - 07/01/15 02:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

keep crying ... all the while Barry and everyone else laughs at you while you and buys Kleenex stock.

poor, poor reichwingers :frown:


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: lurkmode]
    #21883064 - 07/01/15 02:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The loonies have taken over the asylum. What is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. But they will pull the dem lever no matter how they get played for fools, lied to, robbed, etc. Try something new? Can't do that, keep pulling the same lever and maybe next time it will make a difference. If the slot machines at vegas paid off as poorly as that, no one would play them. Except maybe the loony left, they always have hope.

Vote green or libertarian and break the stranglehold of the repubmocrats.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Onlineqman
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: lurkmode]
    #21883158 - 07/01/15 02:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lurkmode said:
Obama is killing it and his approval rating is climbing. Only pissy little bitches don't like him. They're inconsequential now anyway because the losers they like will never be elected president.

Hillary is the anti-christ, Bernie is a Socialist ... BOO!

Right-wingers can go fuck themselves and it's good for the country that they're dying off like mayflies.




"Obama is killing it"

Yes he's killing the working middle class, that's an economic fact.  I glad you're so pleased with a President that has created the largest wealth and income inequality in over 80 years!!


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Offlinelurkmode
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: qman]
    #21883217 - 07/01/15 02:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

created huh? didn't have anything to do with the grundlemuncher that came before huh?

some of you people know so little about the real world


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Onlineqman
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: lurkmode]
    #21883243 - 07/01/15 03:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lurkmode said:
created huh? didn't have anything to do with the grundlemuncher that came before huh?

some of you people know so little about the real world




He has had 6 years to fix it, but instead of fixing it he's only increased it. 

I know you find it very troubling that your hero has been a major sellout to the people he was supposed to represent, but he has only gotten the rich even richer.


Edited by qman (07/01/15 03:02 PM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: qman]
    #21883246 - 07/01/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

>some of you people know so little about the real world

Ironic coming from a moonbat.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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OfflinetripN
Novice psychonaut
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: lurkmode]
    #21883277 - 07/01/15 03:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quick question

Is there one country or society that was or is socialist, became a world power and has held that position or even survived more than 1 century?

Socialism is great in small groups, a perfect example is Native American tribes, the men would hunt, woman pick fruit and vegatables. The point of it was survival, And it worked good.

But in a modern world were that won't willingly happen, all the people that don't want it will leave the country or find a way around it. Then it's the many hungry all alone.

We need a new idea not old ones that failed more than 90% in country's were it was tried.

No?


--------------------
Keep calm and trip on


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OfflineCenterfinger
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: lurkmode]
    #21883466 - 07/01/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lurkmode said:
Obama is killing it and his approval rating is climbing.




Yes he killed free market health care pretty good.  Weren't my costs supposed to go down for health insurance? Nah, a payoff to the insurance companies aka the banks is all fine and dandy.

Instead of fixing the job market in year one, the dems decided to railroad a 'you need to pass before you find out whats in it' healthcare bill.

The two party system is a complete joke, a snake with two heads.  Both parties in bed with big business just one prefers bailing out the banks and the other for the war machine.

I say throw them all out, term limits would help us out the most.  It's a civic duty not a career.

Libertarian for me.  I took an oath to uphold and protect the constitution not run it into the ground.


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OfflinetripN
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Centerfinger]
    #21883597 - 07/01/15 04:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The two party system is a complete joke, a snake with two heads.  Both parties in bed with big business just one prefers bailing out the banks and the other for the war machine.

I say throw them all out, term limits would help us out the most.  It's a civic duty not a career.

Libertarian for me.  I took an oath to uphold and protect the constitution not run it into the ground.





Yes both sides are screwing us why root for one?


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: tripN]
    #21883824 - 07/01/15 05:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tripN said:
Quick question

Is there one country or society that was or is socialist, became a world power and has held that position or even survived more than 1 century?

Socialism is great in small groups, a perfect example is Native American tribes, the men would hunt, woman pick fruit and vegatables. The point of it was survival, And it worked good.

But in a modern world were that won't willingly happen, all the people that don't want it will leave the country or find a way around it. Then it's the many hungry all alone.

We need a new idea not old ones that failed more than 90% in country's were it was tried.

No?




What a terrible analogy. Native Americans societies are not comparable to modern day social democracies. There are plenty of democratic socialist countries in the world that function perfectly well. The fact that some of them have some problems (which pale in comparison to America's enormous problems) does not mean they are dying or falling apart. I hear this argument of scale very often. The Nordic countries are smaller, so the whole game is different. I would like to see evidence that this is true, or that Capitalism works in countries of all sizes, but socialism only works on a small scale? This is propaganda.

America will either continue down the path of fascism, or implement socialism. Bernie is not comparable to Obama, just as Ron Paul is not comparable to G W bush.

Also, your analogy makes it sound like we, the helpless population of America (the women in your analogy), desperately need our corporate masters to provide for us (to hunt for us). I highly disagree. The way I see it, we are the hunters, and they are the leaches sitting around consuming disproportionate amounts of profit. Parasites. Taking tax money in enormous sums, with little societal benefit. Let them leave. The working class makes this country work.

Demanding a liveable wage, whether via a union, or via the government, is a citizens right. We're not asking for handouts. We're asking for the conditions to be met so that handouts are not needed in the first fucking place.

It is new deal principles that made America strong, NOT your beloved Reaganomics. For every corporate backed economist you find that supports Reaganomics, I can easily find 5 that argue otherwise.

Face it, right-wing fascism has had it's run. The Republicans will not take the white house, and they will not take congress in the upcoming election. Mark my words, watch, and weep.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/01/15 05:09 PM)


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21883893 - 07/01/15 05:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

tripN said:
Quick question

Is there one country or society that was or is socialist, became a world power and has held that position or even survived more than 1 century?

Socialism is great in small groups, a perfect example is Native American tribes, the men would hunt, woman pick fruit and vegatables. The point of it was survival, And it worked good.

But in a modern world were that won't willingly happen, all the people that don't want it will leave the country or find a way around it. Then it's the many hungry all alone.

We need a new idea not old ones that failed more than 90% in country's were it was tried.

No?




What a terrible analogy. Native Americans societies are not comparable to modern day social democracies. There are plenty of democratic socialist countries in the world that function perfectly well. The fact that some of them have some problems (which pale in comparison to America's enormous problems) does not mean they are dying or falling apart. I hear this argument of scale very often. The Nordic countries are smaller, so the whole game is different. I would like to see evidence that this is true, or that Capitalism works in countries of all sizes, but socialism only works on a small scale? This is propaganda.

America will either continue down the path of fascism, or implement socialism. Bernie is not comparable to Obama, just as Ron Paul is not comparable to G W bush.

Also, your analogy makes it sound like we, the helpless population of America (the women in your analogy), desperately need our corporate masters to provide for us (to hunt for us). I highly disagree. The way I see it, we are the hunters, and they are the leaches sitting around consuming disproportionate amounts of profit. Parasites. Taking tax money in enormous sums, with little societal benefit. Let them leave. The working class makes this country work.

Demanding a liveable wage, whether via a union, or via the government, is a citizens right. We're not asking for handouts. We're asking for the conditions to be met so that handouts are not needed in the first fucking place.

It is new deal principles that made America strong, NOT your beloved Reaganomics. For every corporate backed economist you find that supports Reaganomics, I can easily find 5 that argue otherwise.

Face it, right-wing fascism has had it's run. The Republicans will not take the white house, and they will not take congress in the upcoming election. Mark my words, watch, and weep.




If Jeb is in the race, the democrats cannot count on Florida, which is a huge blow in the electoral college. (ask Gore)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21883993 - 07/01/15 05:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Jebb will not be president. That just won't happen.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflinetripN
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21884094 - 07/01/15 06:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Ok long list of misunderstandings


Terrable analogy: it was not analogy it was showing the difference in how socialism worked good verses how I think it will play out.

Nordic country's are smaller it won't work in big country's: those country's are smaller than or the same size as the county I live in. If it's somebody in new york I don't give a rats ass, if somebody in my town needs help I'll give them the shirt off my back. I care for my neighbors not for people I'll never meet.

I think your saying my analogy is sexist? Sorry but that's how the Indian tribes worked.

A livable wage is just that livable. If you want the other stuff get a better job, work your way up.

The new deal was bullshit. That's a fact. It's one step away from being a pyramid scheme. And by the day I would get SS checks it will be long gone!

And regan made more than his fair share of fuckups I'm no reganite drone.

In the end the government should be run as a business, and right now it's in debt and will never come out. Unless somebody starts treating it as a business.

Your arguments come off so self serving like it's all about the little guys, I got bad news it's up to them, you, me to find our own way. Don't lean on anybody, ask for what you haven't earned, the only time for that is your darkest hour. And then with how smart our government is they'll be late or not come at all. Hurricane Katrina, sandy ........


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: tripN]
    #21884172 - 07/01/15 06:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tripN said:
Ok long list of misunderstandings


Terrable analogy: it was not analogy it was showing the difference in how socialism worked good verses how I think it will play out.

Nordic country's are smaller it won't work in big country's: those country's are smaller than or the same size as the county I live in. If it's somebody in new york I don't give a rats ass, if somebody in my town needs help I'll give them the shirt off my back. I care for my neighbors not for people I'll never meet.

I think your saying my analogy is sexist? Sorry but that's how the Indian tribes worked.

A livable wage is just that livable. If you want the other stuff get a better job, work your way up.

The new deal was bullshit. That's a fact. It's one step away from being a pyramid scheme. And by the day I would get SS checks it will be long gone!

And regan made more than his fair share of fuckups I'm no reganite drone.

In the end the government should be run as a business, and right now it's in debt and will never come out. Unless somebody starts treating it as a business.

Your arguments come off so self serving like it's all about the little guys, I got bad news it's up to them, you, me to find our own way. Don't lean on anybody, ask for what you haven't earned, the only time for that is your darkest hour. And then with how smart our government is they'll be late or not come at all. Hurricane Katrina, sandy ........




In a Socialist country hurricane Katrina would have played out much differently. We wouldn't have been focusing on rebuilding Iraq before rebuilding America. I wasn't saying you were being sexist, but I will say that women were a central part of Native American tribes. In fact, most tribes were matriarchal in nature. Women also played a role in growing and gathering food. Native American's didn't even have an economy in the conventional undertanding of the word. It's a poor analogy, sorry.

Socialists wantmto expand Social Security. The middle class was built on the New Deal, and it declined after Reagan. You may not be a 'Reaganite', but many folks around here are. Right now Liberal states pay for Right wing welfare states' tax subsidies. I propose we all take care of our neighborhood (the nation). In taking care of your neighbor, you show that you do care to take care of people in dark times. In a Socialist system it would be the same situation. Maybe you can't see that people in NY would be taking care of your neighbor too.

Nobody makes it anywhere in life without the participation of others in their endeavors. You act as if man is an island. He succeeds on his own. We are a society.

"Government should be run as a business" - make your case. I would argue that government is not a business, it serves an entirely different purpose than a business, and it shouldn't be run like a business. Are you a Trump supporter? Just curious.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/01/15 06:26 PM)


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Onlineqman
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21884275 - 07/01/15 06:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

tripN said:
Ok long list of misunderstandings


Terrable analogy: it was not analogy it was showing the difference in how socialism worked good verses how I think it will play out.

Nordic country's are smaller it won't work in big country's: those country's are smaller than or the same size as the county I live in. If it's somebody in new york I don't give a rats ass, if somebody in my town needs help I'll give them the shirt off my back. I care for my neighbors not for people I'll never meet.

I think your saying my analogy is sexist? Sorry but that's how the Indian tribes worked.

A livable wage is just that livable. If you want the other stuff get a better job, work your way up.

The new deal was bullshit. That's a fact. It's one step away from being a pyramid scheme. And by the day I would get SS checks it will be long gone!

And regan made more than his fair share of fuckups I'm no reganite drone.

In the end the government should be run as a business, and right now it's in debt and will never come out. Unless somebody starts treating it as a business.

Your arguments come off so self serving like it's all about the little guys, I got bad news it's up to them, you, me to find our own way. Don't lean on anybody, ask for what you haven't earned, the only time for that is your darkest hour. And then with how smart our government is they'll be late or not come at all. Hurricane Katrina, sandy ........




In a Socialist country hurricane Katrina would have played out much differently. We wouldn't have been focusing on rebuilding Iraq before rebuilding America. I wasn't saying you were being sexist, but I will say that women were a central part of Native American tribes. In fact, most tribes were matriarchal in nature. Women also played a role in growing and gathering food. Native American's didn't even have an economy in the conventional undertanding of the word. It's a poor analogy, sorry.

Socialists wantmto expand Social Security. The middle class was built on the New Deal, and it declined after Reagan. You may not be a 'Reaganite', but many folks around here are. Right now Liberal states pay for Right wing welfare states' tax subsidies. I propose we all take care of our neighborhood (the nation). In taking care of your neighbor, you show that you do care to take care of people in dark times. In a Socialist system it would be the same situation. Maybe you can't see that people in NY would be taking care of your neighbor too.

Nobody makes it anywhere in life without the participation of others in their endeavors. You act as if man is an island. He succeeds on his own. We are a society.

"Government should be run as a business" - make your case. I would argue that government is not a business, it serves an entirely different purpose than a business, and it shouldn't be run like a business. Are you a Trump supporter? Just curious.




"The middle class was build on the New Deal"

No it wasn't, it was build on a strong growing economy that had a very tight labor market, it had very little to do with the government.

Also, I agree that Reaganomics is a failed concept, the proof is today's economic environment.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: tripN]
    #21884286 - 07/01/15 06:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

tripN, your patience is admirable but the moonbats will just keep babbling the same old crap no matter what you tell them, no matter what the facts are just as they will vote democrat until they die even though it never made a difference.

If stalin was a dem and was running, they would pick him over the best gop there is and not even consider the third parties.

Woof used to be a rational person, he/she has gone downhill and is an ordinary troll now.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: qman]
    #21884333 - 07/01/15 06:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Can we agree on one thing all of the ideas that we as a society come up with should be tested on a state level, proven or disproven, then adopted, changed a little bit or thrown out.


I see no reason 5-10 years of socialism cannot be tried out in California, if it works there then other states will adopt it.

Can we find some middle ground with the idea that we should experiment different ideas in different states?


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OfflinetripN
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21884429 - 07/01/15 07:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
tripN, your patience is admirable but the moonbats will just keep babbling the same old crap no matter what you tell them, no matter what the facts are just as they will vote democrat until they die even though it never made a difference.

If stalin was a dem and was running, they would pick him over the best gop there is and not even consider the third parties.

Woof used to be a rational person, he/she has gone downhill and is an ordinary troll now.





If that is true (people not listening to there fellow men/women and arguing the positive and negatives of certain ideas, voting for somebody just because of there party or how cool they are) then we as a nation are truly fucked. Don't ever let anybody make decisions for you, listen, interpret, think it out, then choose the one that makes the most sense. If we truely love our country we will work together to find solutions not work behind others backs. We may have disagreements that is to be expected and is truely evident here.

At the end of the day a compromise must be reached I do it all the time in my business life. However in the national debates most think with there hearts not minds. Politicians worry about our brains but embrace our hearts and play us using them.

When everybody agrees on something usually the problem is white and black. Today's problems are many shades of gray.

More than 50.


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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: qman]
    #21884521 - 07/01/15 07:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

New Deal labor law provided legal protections that allowed workers to build unions and to negotiate for higher wages and benefits and for safe working conditions. New Deal legislation set labor standards, creating a minimum wage and overtime that lifted the incomes of workers across the wage spectrum. The minimum wage is the reference wage, which all specialized job pay rates are measured against.

Middle class wages were not the result of corporate benevolence. An enormous movement of striking workers, facing decades of government suppression, won the right to organize.

Do you think that without the minimum wage people would be earning a decent living in America? The free trade deals that force us to compete with cheap foreign labor would surely drive labod wages down.

Look, you Libertarians can spit on civilization all you like, but you can't change historical fact. The New Deal is what made america strong. Deregulation, free trade, and austerity make America weak.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21884581 - 07/01/15 07:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I think stoney is trying to imply that I just run around backing D's and check 'D' in the voting booth without consideration. I submit that he knows better, and he is strawmanning once again.

I reflect deeply on political issues, and through that reflection I have built a set of values. My values are different than Stonehenge's, so therefore he wishes to characterize me as some sort of ignorant blind dem. I was an avid supporter of Ron Paul when he ran. I am an even stronger supporter of Bernie Sanders now. Bernie is not some mainstream dem, and he would be harder pressed to win the general election than Hillary. If I were just a blind dem I would vote for the dem most likely to win, instead of the one with ideals I identify with.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/01/15 07:24 PM)


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Onlineqman
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21884674 - 07/01/15 07:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
New Deal labor law provided legal protections that allowed workers to build unions and to negotiate for higher wages and benefits and for safe working conditions. New Deal legislation set labor standards, creating a minimum wage and overtime that lifted the incomes of workers across the wage spectrum. The minimum wage is the reference wage, which all specialized job pay rates are measured against.

Middle class wages were not the result of corporate benevolence. An enormous movement of striking workers, facing decades of government suppression, won the right to organize.

Do you think that without the minimum wage people would be earning a decent living in America? The free trade deals that force us to compete with cheap foreign labor would surely drive labod wages down.

Look, you Libertarians can spit on civilization all you like, but you can't change historical fact. The New Deal is what made america strong. Deregulation, free trade, and austerity make America weak.




"creating a minimum wage...lifted the incomes of workers"

No, the start of WW2 is what got the economy going in the early 1940's, it was natural market forces that lifted wages, not a mandate by the government.

Guess what happened when the US won WW2?  The US labor market had too much work relative to workers, that's what created the strong middle class, not government regulation.  :facepalm:

Why were corporate profits so small and wages were so high during the 60's and 70's?  Because companies had NO other choice other than pay higher wages, they didn't have illegal workers, they didn't have Mexico, China, ect. to outsource work.  Strong wages are the result of natural market forces, it's called supply and demand.

If setting a high minimum wage was the recipe of economic prosperity and a strong middle class, why doesn't Spain, Greece, Italy, Japan, Mexico and others just hike their minimum wages regardless of the economic environment?  Because it doesn't work unless you have economic strength to support it.

"Free trade and austerity make American weak"

No disagreement there because our trade deals are NOT "free" at all.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: qman]
    #21884731 - 07/01/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tripN said:
Can we agree on one thing all of the ideas that we as a society come up with should be tested on a state level, proven or disproven, then adopted, changed a little bit or thrown out.


I see no reason 5-10 years of socialism cannot be tried out in California, if it works there then other states will adopt it.

Can we find some middle ground with the idea that we should experiment different ideas in different states?



Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
New Deal labor law provided legal protections that allowed workers to build unions and to negotiate for higher wages and benefits and for safe working conditions. New Deal legislation set labor standards, creating a minimum wage and overtime that lifted the incomes of workers across the wage spectrum. The minimum wage is the reference wage, which all specialized job pay rates are measured against.

Middle class wages were not the result of corporate benevolence. An enormous movement of striking workers, facing decades of government suppression, won the right to organize.

Do you think that without the minimum wage people would be earning a decent living in America? The free trade deals that force us to compete with cheap foreign labor would surely drive labod wages down.

Look, you Libertarians can spit on civilization all you like, but you can't change historical fact. The New Deal is what made america strong. Deregulation, free trade, and austerity make America weak.




"creating a minimum wage...lifted the incomes of workers"

No, the start of WW2 is what got the economy going in the early 1940's, it was natural market forces that lifted wages, not a mandate by the government.

Guess what happened when the US won WW2?  The US labor market had too much work relative to workers, that's what created the strong middle class, not government regulation.  :facepalm:

Why were corporate profits so small and wages were so high during the 60's and 70's?  Because companies had NO other choice other than pay higher wages, they didn't have illegal workers, they didn't have Mexico, China, ect. to outsource work.  Strong wages are the result of natural market forces, it's called supply and demand.

If setting a high minimum wage was the recipe of economic prosperity and a strong middle class, why doesn't Spain, Greece, Italy, Japan, Mexico and others just hike their minimum wages regardless of the economic environment?  Because it doesn't work unless you have economic strength to support it.

"Free trade and austerity make American weak"

No disagreement there because our trade deals are NOT "free" at all.




Good rebuttal. The left wing fanatics won't be able to understand it but reasonable folk may. The left likes simple answers that have an emotional ring to them. They think with their feelings, not their brain. They will tell you they analyze each candidate and only pick the best one regardless of party. Then you notice that they always vote for one party no matter what and you realize they are full of crap. Same goes for the right wing loonies who vote gop like it would make a difference.

If a gop had done half the things obumble did, the same loonies that are defending obumble would be on the warpath calling him a terrible president. "sent us off to war after promising the opposite?" fail "said he would go easy on medical pot and cracked down instead?" A gop would never get away with that, they would rant about it every day. But obumble gets no flack from the left. They don't like it and dimly understand something is wrong but they keep pulling the d lever no matter what.

Wait till the full impact of the bargain with the devil called tpp comes out. They will try to blame it on bush somehow.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: qman]
    #21884775 - 07/01/15 08:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
New Deal labor law provided legal protections that allowed workers to build unions and to negotiate for higher wages and benefits and for safe working conditions. New Deal legislation set labor standards, creating a minimum wage and overtime that lifted the incomes of workers across the wage spectrum. The minimum wage is the reference wage, which all specialized job pay rates are measured against.

Middle class wages were not the result of corporate benevolence. An enormous movement of striking workers, facing decades of government suppression, won the right to organize.

Do you think that without the minimum wage people would be earning a decent living in America? The free trade deals that force us to compete with cheap foreign labor would surely drive labod wages down.

Look, you Libertarians can spit on civilization all you like, but you can't change historical fact. The New Deal is what made america strong. Deregulation, free trade, and austerity make America weak.




"creating a minimum wage...lifted the incomes of workers"

No, the start of WW2 is what got the economy going in the early 1940's, it was natural market forces that lifted wages, not a mandate by the government.

Guess what happened when the US won WW2?  The US labor market had too much work relative to workers, that's what created the strong middle class, not government regulation.  :facepalm:

Why were corporate profits so small and wages were so high during the 60's and 70's?  Because companies had NO other choice other than pay higher wages, they didn't have illegal workers, they didn't have Mexico, China, ect. to outsource work.  Strong wages are the result of natural market forces, it's called supply and demand.

If setting a high minimum wage was the recipe of economic prosperity and a strong middle class, why doesn't Spain, Greece, Italy, Japan, Mexico and others just hike their minimum wages regardless of the economic environment?  Because it doesn't work unless you have economic strength to support it.

"Free trade and austerity make American weak"

No disagreement there because our trade deals are NOT "free" at all.




Without wage regulations business owners would have just taken a higher share of the profits. Without overtime regulation workers would not earn overtime pay. Sure, there was a competitive labor market, but the minimum wage raised the wages of those who weren't competitive in the market. If businesses don't pay decent wages, welfare picks up the tab. If full time workers cant pay their bills, and welfare doesn't pick up the tab, you have a shrinking middle class. You have more poverty.

Free trade is free. It is a form of deregulation. It is a Libertarian value. Do you support getting rid of the minimum wage and social security? A social safety net is part of functional capitalism.

Adam Smith and James Madison both supported regulation of business in support of workers. If you disagree I will pull their quotes on the subject, but otherwise I don't feel like digging them up.


--------------------
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21884871 - 07/01/15 08:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


Good rebuttal. The left wing fanatics won't be able to understand it but reasonable folk may. The left likes simple answers that have an emotional ring to them. They think with their feelings, not their brain. They will tell you they analyze each candidate and only pick the best one regardless of party. Then you notice that they always vote for one party no matter what and you realize they are full of crap. Same goes for the right wing loonies who vote gop like it would make a difference.

If a gop had done half the things obumble did, the same loonies that are defending obumble would be on the warpath calling him a terrible president. "sent us off to war after promising the opposite?" fail "said he would go easy on medical pot and cracked down instead?" A gop would never get away with that, they would rant about it every day. But obumble gets no flack from the left. They don't like it and dimly understand something is wrong but they keep pulling the d lever no matter what.

Wait till the full impact of the bargain with the devil called tpp comes out. They will try to blame it on bush somehow.




The left likes simple answers that have an emotional ring to them? Holy fucking jesus, are you serious? With your Sarah Palins and Michelle Bachmans, Rick Perry, George and Jebb, you say that the left is the party of the simple minded.

Partisanship isn't exclusive to the left, sir.

Stonehenge, you are the only person here who 'trolls' with every post you make.

You should really try contributing something aside from 'liberals is dumb!'


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FARTS
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Every one of you should see this video.
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21884893 - 07/01/15 08:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
New Deal labor law provided legal protections that allowed workers to build unions and to negotiate for higher wages and benefits and for safe working conditions. New Deal legislation set labor standards, creating a minimum wage and overtime that lifted the incomes of workers across the wage spectrum. The minimum wage is the reference wage, which all specialized job pay rates are measured against.

Middle class wages were not the result of corporate benevolence. An enormous movement of striking workers, facing decades of government suppression, won the right to organize.

Do you think that without the minimum wage people would be earning a decent living in America? The free trade deals that force us to compete with cheap foreign labor would surely drive labod wages down.

Look, you Libertarians can spit on civilization all you like, but you can't change historical fact. The New Deal is what made america strong. Deregulation, free trade, and austerity make America weak.




"creating a minimum wage...lifted the incomes of workers"

No, the start of WW2 is what got the economy going in the early 1940's, it was natural market forces that lifted wages, not a mandate by the government.

Guess what happened when the US won WW2?  The US labor market had too much work relative to workers, that's what created the strong middle class, not government regulation.  :facepalm:

Why were corporate profits so small and wages were so high during the 60's and 70's?  Because companies had NO other choice other than pay higher wages, they didn't have illegal workers, they didn't have Mexico, China, ect. to outsource work.  Strong wages are the result of natural market forces, it's called supply and demand.

If setting a high minimum wage was the recipe of economic prosperity and a strong middle class, why doesn't Spain, Greece, Italy, Japan, Mexico and others just hike their minimum wages regardless of the economic environment?  Because it doesn't work unless you have economic strength to support it.

"Free trade and austerity make American weak"

No disagreement there because our trade deals are NOT "free" at all.




Without wage regulations business owners would have just taken a higher share of the profits. Without overtime regulation workers would not earn overtime pay. Sure, there was a competitive labor market, but the minimum wage raised the wages of those who weren't competitive in the market. If businesses don't pay decent wages, welfare picks up the tab. If full time workers cant pay their bills, and welfare doesn't pick up the tab, you have a shrinking middle class. You have more poverty.

Free trade is free. It is a form of deregulation. It is a Libertarian value. Do you support getting rid of the minimum wage and social security? A social safety net is part of functional capitalism.

Adam Smith and James Madison both supported regulation of business in support of workers. If you disagree I will pull their quotes on the subject, but otherwise I don't feel like digging them up.




I have no issue with minimum wage laws, but at the same time I realize it really doesn't do that much to create economic prosperity.  Does it help people in today's economic environment?  Yes, because we have a massive excess pool of labor which could theoretically drive wages even lower. Does it create jobs?  No.

Again, government regulation over wages doesn't really create wage growth, it's about a growing economy and the supply/demand dynamics that take place in the labor market.  Why do you think the wages in India/China (4 billion people) are so low?  It has NOTHING to do with the minimum wage laws!!

Social security is OK at best, so far it's worked for most Americans, time will tell you it works in the future when the payouts exceed the SS revenue.


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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: qman]
    #21884940 - 07/01/15 08:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Social security is OK at best, so far it's worked for most Americans, time will tell you it works in the future when the payouts exceed the SS revenue.






Bad news dude it's happening, maybe 20 years at best.


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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: qman]
    #21884945 - 07/01/15 08:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
New Deal labor law provided legal protections that allowed workers to build unions and to negotiate for higher wages and benefits and for safe working conditions. New Deal legislation set labor standards, creating a minimum wage and overtime that lifted the incomes of workers across the wage spectrum. The minimum wage is the reference wage, which all specialized job pay rates are measured against.

Middle class wages were not the result of corporate benevolence. An enormous movement of striking workers, facing decades of government suppression, won the right to organize.

Do you think that without the minimum wage people would be earning a decent living in America? The free trade deals that force us to compete with cheap foreign labor would surely drive labod wages down.

Look, you Libertarians can spit on civilization all you like, but you can't change historical fact. The New Deal is what made america strong. Deregulation, free trade, and austerity make America weak.




"creating a minimum wage...lifted the incomes of workers"

No, the start of WW2 is what got the economy going in the early 1940's, it was natural market forces that lifted wages, not a mandate by the government.

Guess what happened when the US won WW2?  The US labor market had too much work relative to workers, that's what created the strong middle class, not government regulation.  :facepalm:

Why were corporate profits so small and wages were so high during the 60's and 70's?  Because companies had NO other choice other than pay higher wages, they didn't have illegal workers, they didn't have Mexico, China, ect. to outsource work.  Strong wages are the result of natural market forces, it's called supply and demand.

If setting a high minimum wage was the recipe of economic prosperity and a strong middle class, why doesn't Spain, Greece, Italy, Japan, Mexico and others just hike their minimum wages regardless of the economic environment?  Because it doesn't work unless you have economic strength to support it.

"Free trade and austerity make American weak"

No disagreement there because our trade deals are NOT "free" at all.




Without wage regulations business owners would have just taken a higher share of the profits. Without overtime regulation workers would not earn overtime pay. Sure, there was a competitive labor market, but the minimum wage raised the wages of those who weren't competitive in the market. If businesses don't pay decent wages, welfare picks up the tab. If full time workers cant pay their bills, and welfare doesn't pick up the tab, you have a shrinking middle class. You have more poverty.

Free trade is free. It is a form of deregulation. It is a Libertarian value. Do you support getting rid of the minimum wage and social security? A social safety net is part of functional capitalism.

Adam Smith and James Madison both supported regulation of business in support of workers. If you disagree I will pull their quotes on the subject, but otherwise I don't feel like digging them up.




I have no issue with minimum wage laws, but at the same time I realize it really doesn't do that much to create economic prosperity.  Does it help people in today's economic environment?  Yes, because we have a massive excess pool of labor which could theoretically drive wages even lower. Does it create jobs?  No.

Again, government regulation over wages doesn't really create wage growth, it's about a growing economy and the supply/demand dynamics that take place in the labor market.  Why do you think the wages in India/China (4 billion people) are so low?  It has NOTHING to do with the minimum wage laws!!

Social security is OK at best, so far it's worked for most Americans, time will tell you it works in the future when the payouts exceed the SS revenue.




I agree with you that the market environment has a powerful impact on wage growth. That's nit a point that can be argued. Supply and demand of labor surely play a role. With todays technologies, we will never see the demand for labor we once had. One solution might be to shrink the labor force via starvation and/or murder.

Here is a hypothetical for you. Robots take all of our jobs except for robot technicians. Do you still believe nothing should be done to equitibly distribute he wealth generated by human progress? Computers and robots are already taking over jobs. In the 50's it would have taken a much larger labor force to acheive what we create nowadays. Productivity has been skyrocketing because of technological advancement. Shouldn't that technology be used to raise society as a whole? Or should it only be used to raise up a few people?


--------------------
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: tripN]
    #21884951 - 07/01/15 08:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tripN said:
Social security is OK at best, so far it's worked for most Americans, time will tell you it works in the future when the payouts exceed the SS revenue.






Bad news dude it's happening, maybe 20 years at best.




Social security would be fine if we eliminate the cap on SSI tax. If Bernie is president social security will be solvent for 80+ years


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21885095 - 07/01/15 09:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Woof, that last post of yours made me laugh. And not just because I was high.

>The left likes simple answers that have an emotional ring to them? Holy fucking jesus, are you serious?

Look around yourself, what do you see besides that?

>With your Sarah Palins and Michelle Bachmans, Rick Perry, George and Jebb, you say that the left is the party of the simple minded.

"my" sarah... etc? How did those clowns become mine? Was I appointed their guardian or something? Or were you thinking of someone else? I'm glad you aren't simple minded or dizzy, but some people are. Where do you get off blaming me for whatever they did that you didn't like? See what I mean?

OK, here is where you were right and I agree 100%

>Social security would be fine if we eliminate the cap on SSI tax. If Bernie is president social security will be solvent for 80+ years

But... and its a big but, govt has to stop spending like a drunken liberal. I didn't want to get flack for insulting sailors so I said it that way. :wink:


--------------------
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21885106 - 07/01/15 09:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

tripN said:
Social security is OK at best, so far it's worked for most Americans, time will tell you it works in the future when the payouts exceed the SS revenue.






Bad news dude it's happening, maybe 20 years at best.




Social security would be fine if we eliminate the cap on SSI tax. If Bernie is president social security will be solvent for 80+ years




wow, what a novel Liberal idea... tax the rich more.


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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21885135 - 07/01/15 09:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Woof, that last post of yours made me laugh. And not just because I was high.

>The left likes simple answers that have an emotional ring to them? Holy fucking jesus, are you serious?

Look around yourself, what do you see besides that?

>With your Sarah Palins and Michelle Bachmans, Rick Perry, George and Jebb, you say that the left is the party of the simple minded.

"my" sarah... etc? How did those clowns become mine? Was I appointed their guardian or something? Or were you thinking of someone else? I'm glad you aren't simple minded or dizzy, but some people are. Where do you get off blaming me for whatever they did that you didn't like? See what I mean?

OK, here is where you were right and I agree 100%

>Social security would be fine if we eliminate the cap on SSI tax. If Bernie is president social security will be solvent for 80+ years

But... and its a big but, govt has to stop spending like a drunken liberal. I didn't want to get flack for insulting sailors so I said it that way. :wink:




I know my share of fishermen, and the term fits quite well. I think military spending needs to be cut before anything else. Also, spending on the NSA, and other government institutions that are way out of proportion. That money should be used for the betterment of society on the whole. Government spending on research has been shown to pay off $1.75 to $1 on average. Social security, healthcare, education, and emergency food programs are all worthy efforts to pursue.

Rebuilding Iraq and investing in Israels defense program are not efforts worthy of pursuit when our economy is in shambles.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21885487 - 07/01/15 10:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Woof, that last post of yours made me laugh. And not just because I was high.

>The left likes simple answers that have an emotional ring to them? Holy fucking jesus, are you serious?

Look around yourself, what do you see besides that?

>With your Sarah Palins and Michelle Bachmans, Rick Perry, George and Jebb, you say that the left is the party of the simple minded.

"my" sarah... etc? How did those clowns become mine? Was I appointed their guardian or something? Or were you thinking of someone else? I'm glad you aren't simple minded or dizzy, but some people are. Where do you get off blaming me for whatever they did that you didn't like? See what I mean?

OK, here is where you were right and I agree 100%

>Social security would be fine if we eliminate the cap on SSI tax. If Bernie is president social security will be solvent for 80+ years

But... and its a big but, govt has to stop spending like a drunken liberal. I didn't want to get flack for insulting sailors so I said it that way. :wink:




I know my share of fishermen, and the term fits quite well. I think military spending needs to be cut before anything else. Also, spending on the NSA, and other government institutions that are way out of proportion. That money should be used for the betterment of society on the whole. Government spending on research has been shown to pay off $1.75 to $1 on average. Social security, healthcare, education, and emergency food programs are all worthy efforts to pursue.

Rebuilding Iraq and investing in Israels defense program are not efforts worthy of pursuit when our economy is in shambles.




So say you raise the tax, cut the military and send that dough to SS.

Sooner or later the well will run dry then we get what Greece is going through.

At this point it is damn neer impossible to pay our debts, I wonder how long it will last, when will our land and all assets be reposest?

SS get it like the holocaust guys. One kills faster but the other kills an entire country (the best ever seen) and society.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: tripN]
    #21885500 - 07/01/15 10:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Social Security WOULD still be more solvent now and in the future if Congress hadn't pissed away the over $2 trillion trust fund over the years. And yes, both parties are to blame for this. And a major reason Greece is having such problems is that income tax evasion is rife.


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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: tripN]
    #21885588 - 07/01/15 11:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tripN said:
So say you raise the tax, cut the military and send that dough to SS.

Sooner or later the well will run dry then we get what Greece is going through.

At this point it is damn neer impossible to pay our debts, I wonder how long it will last, when will our land and all assets be reposest?

SS get it like the holocaust guys. One kills faster but the other kills an entire country (the best ever seen) and society.




Reposessed*

Are you seriously arguing that making the rich pay a percentage of their income to SSI will bankrupt the country? Do you realize how disasterous the state of affairs in America will be if we don't preserve social security?

I know that there's some reason you people think the wealthy shouldn't pay taxes, but I have news for you, even Warren Buffet doesn't believe he should be paying a lower percentage of his income than his secretary.

I suppose you think we should continue to impose austerity measures on the poor in order to increase the massive bankrolls of billionaires, but I find that notion reprehensible.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/01/15 11:13 PM)


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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21886055 - 07/02/15 01:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

"The top 10 percent of income earners paid 68 percent of all federal income taxes in 2011 (the latest year available), though they earned 45 percent of all income. The bottom 50 percent paid 3 percent of income taxes, but earned 12 percent of income."

just sayin...


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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #21887380 - 07/02/15 10:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Both major parties are just two sides of the same coin, the two hands of a puppet master that pretends to offer a choice. Only simpletons and liberals believe it entirely.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21887705 - 07/02/15 12:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:

If a gop had done half the things obumble did, the same loonies that are defending obumble would be on the warpath calling him a terrible president. "sent us off to war after promising the opposite?" fail "said he would go easy on medical pot and cracked down instead?" A gop would never get away with that, they would rant about it every day. But obumble gets no flack from the left. They don't like it and dimly understand something is wrong but they keep pulling the d lever no matter what.

Wait till the full impact of the bargain with the devil called tpp comes out. They will try to blame it on bush somehow.




Well where did he send us off to war. We still have some troops in Iraq and Afghanistan only because the regimes there requested it. They know that without a some troops there, they'd crumble like a sandcastle at high tide. And it's no where the numbers of troops we had there before they were drawn down.

yes, he did crack down on medweed growers beccause they were growing pot over and above what was allowed by state law. And he's allowed Colorada and Washington state to proceed freely with their recreation use and laws. And I don't like the TPP anymore that you but it was Republicans in the house and senate who overwhelmingly gave him the green light to proceed.


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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21887899 - 07/02/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Both major parties are just two sides of the same coin, the two hands of a puppet master that pretends to offer a choice. Only simpletons and liberals believe it entirely.




Plenty of conservatives would vote for Jebb over Bernie. Bernie is not a status quo politician. When you say 'simpletons' and Liberals, what you mean is 'conservatives and liberals', but 'simpleton' is a more apt depiction, we can agree there :wink:


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #21888021 - 07/02/15 01:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

>Well where did he send us off to war

For one, he sent troops back into Iraq after shrub had made a deal to pull them all out. Then there is arming our enemies in Syria to fight other enemies and now they use the arms against us. Plus other junk.

>We still have some troops in Iraq and Afghanistan only because the regimes there requested it.

I don't give a rats pattotie about what some puppet govt "requests" fuck 'em! And you are wrong, Afghanistan requested we get the hell out and obumble had to give major bribe money to get them to accept.

>They know that without a some troops there, they'd crumble like a sandcastle at high tide.

Let them crumble. Are you under the delusion that we are the world's cops and have to prop up every regime in sight? If we had left Iraq alone or just taught it a lesson instead of taking it over, it would never have gotten to the terrible state it is now.

>I don't like the TPP anymore that you but it was Republicans in the house and senate who overwhelmingly gave him the green light to proceed.

With help from crooked dems of course. If his own party had not deserted their principals, it would not have happened. He stabbed unions in the back big time. His motto is "hey, I don't have to run anymore so pound sand"


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21888218 - 07/02/15 02:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>Well where did he send us off to war

For one, he sent troops back into Iraq after shrub had made a deal to pull them all out. Then there is arming our enemies in Syria to fight other enemies and now they use the arms against us. Plus other junk.




No, there was huge draw down, which Bush engineered, but there's hardly 180K troops there like in the heydays of the conflict. And yes, we are arming some Syrian group, but that hardly means he's been sending us into war. I will agree with you that we need to stop that and let the Arab nations take care of that mess.

Quote:

>We still have some troops in Iraq and Afghanistan only because the regimes there requested it.

I don't give a rats pattotie about what some puppet govt "requests" fuck 'em! And you are wrong, Afghanistan requested we get the hell out and obumble had to give major bribe money to get them to accept.





They did! And yes we are giving them money as well. I'm sure you'll agree we need to stop doing that.

Quote:

>They know that without a some troops there, they'd crumble like a sandcastle at high tide.

Let them crumble. Are you under the delusion that we are the world's cops and have to prop up every regime in sight? If we had left Iraq alone or just taught it a lesson instead of taking it over, it would never have gotten to the terrible state it is now.




We are in agreement again! :laugh: We have no business being there and we wouldn't need to be if it weren't for the Saudis and their lovely oil. I say fuck them with a garden rake too. We can get our oil elsewhere. We cannot be the world's policeman- we can't afford it.

Quote:

>I don't like the TPP anymore that you but it was Republicans in the house and senate who overwhelmingly gave him the green light to proceed.

With help from crooked dems of course. If his own party had not deserted their principals, it would not have happened. He stabbed unions in the back big time. His motto is "hey, I don't have to run anymore so pound sand"




Yep, t'is true. I should have added that in my posting. Apologies.

But you see my friend, I may have Liberal leaning tendencies, but I'm not full-blown lib.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #21888306 - 07/02/15 03:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

LC, you are clearly not a brain dead moonbat so you deserve some credit for that.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #21888352 - 07/02/15 03:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You may or may not be a lib, but being against the TPP isn't demonstrative of conservative values. Trade deals are a conservative policy, not a liberal one.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineCenterfinger
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #21888443 - 07/02/15 03:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

From reading this derailed thread it's obvious to me that the two things that divide people the most are politics and religion.

At this very early point in the 2016 election, there is not one candidate that represents me.

what we need is term limits and a bit of common sense.

One of my biggest beliefs is that NATURE > GOV'T.  How can the government outlaw nature, to me that is just BS.  I'm pretty sure the  reason is that big pharma needs to make countless more billions making chemicals that exist freely in nature. So they just prop up the crony that will move their agenda forward.

Also, does no one else think something is screwed up when thousandaires go into office only to leave office millionaires.

Why are the insider trading records of elected officials in some basement.  It's ok to put the populations medical records online, but no we can put the house members and senators trading records online. 

It's all about money and power, it's a drug to them and they have to keep the vein tapped.

I'd rather elect a tow truck driver or a guy that does drywall than any of these lawyers that get into politics.

I will look into Mr. Sanders a bit further, but I know he will be just like the next guy.  Call me skeptical, but if you really look hard at a candidate you will always find something they have done /not done in the past that does not represent your view.  Your also going to be better off doing the research yourself, then taking the media's talking points and regurgitating it.  I do not blindly follow anyone because he has a (D), (R) or an (L) beside his name.  A large majority of them just bend over for the cash.

At least I know that the members participating in the politics forum are somewhat educated voters.  A big problem is people are too lazy to do any legwork on a candidate and blindly vote with party D or party R just because they want the "I Voted" sticker. A bill should be introduced requiring a civics test before you can place your vote.  Fail the test and your vote doesn't count.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Centerfinger]
    #21889613 - 07/02/15 07:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Bernie is the only serious candidate who is not backed financially by any billionaires.

His average campaign donation is $40. His voting record demonstrates his values. He's been saying the same shit for 20+ years. He was an independent for most of his political career.

Nobody argues against Bernie Sanders' integrity. They may not like his very Liberal views, but he is not a liar.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21889794 - 07/02/15 08:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I hope hitlery is having nightmares about sanders spoiling all her plans. He better watch his back, the Clintons don't play by the rules. Bill killed many people when pres and I'm sure he knows who to call if he wants another job done. Be alert for a "tragic accident". And any hint that it was orchestrated will be greeted with derision of course.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21890602 - 07/02/15 11:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:


I know that there's some reason you people think the wealthy shouldn't pay taxes, but I have news for you, even Warren Buffet doesn't believe he should be paying a lower percentage of his income than his secretary.






Oh.  That's why Warren Buffet has been fighting the IRS for the last 10 years on around 5 billion in back-taxes he owes.  :smirk:


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21890634 - 07/02/15 11:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
I hope hitlery is having nightmares about sanders spoiling all her plans. He better watch his back, the Clintons don't play by the rules. Bill killed many people when pres and I'm sure he knows who to call if he wants another job done. Be alert for a "tragic accident". And any hint that it was orchestrated will be greeted with derision of course.




Yeah, I expect Bernie to have a few assassination attempts. It doesn't matter though. If they kill him he will be a martyr for Socialism! I think there would be more blow back than the Fascist right-wing/corporatists want.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21891262 - 07/03/15 03:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
I hope hitlery is having nightmares about sanders spoiling all her plans. He better watch his back, the Clintons don't play by the rules. Bill killed many people when pres and I'm sure he knows who to call if he wants another job done. Be alert for a "tragic accident". And any hint that it was orchestrated will be greeted with derision of course.




Wow, so where's the proof? Oh it's a conspiracy..


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21891428 - 07/03/15 06:12 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
You may or may not be a lib, but being against the TPP isn't demonstrative of conservative values. Trade deals are a conservative policy, not a liberal one.




Well, I have read folks of all political stripes are speaking out against it.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #21892341 - 07/03/15 12:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Le_Canard said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
You may or may not be a lib, but being against the TPP isn't demonstrative of conservative values. Trade deals are a conservative policy, not a liberal one.




Well, I have read folks of all political stripes are speaking out against it.




The TPP was overwhelmingly support by Republicans. Free trade is a right wing philosophy. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, and yes, Obama did support it. Probably the most dissapointing thing I've ever seen him do.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/03/15 12:01 PM)


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OfflinetripN
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21892434 - 07/03/15 12:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The bad part of the TTP is that it allows immigration specifecly for companies like Google and Facebook, WTF?

Berrny sanders is not a liar or fake the one thing I love about him, he doesn't really care about being elected. I wish more politicians were like that telling us what they actually believe, not pandering to more popular ideas. Big points for berny there.

About the Clinton hit men. With the mountains of cash they have they can hire the best hit men in the world. I'll try to find the story for you, it was about there days in Arkansas when the one man that had the dirt on them died for no natural reason. It is a conspiracy theory  but unlike JFK, the moon landing and 9/11 the questions and doubts have not been fully answered.

I'm not a conspery theorist but political hit jobs go back to when we were apes, it's in our blood though today restrained very well.


--------------------
Keep calm and trip on


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: tripN]
    #21892502 - 07/03/15 12:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tripN said:
The bad part of the TTP is that it allows immigration specifecly for companies like Google and Facebook, WTF?

Berrny sanders is not a liar or fake the one thing I love about him, he doesn't really care about being elected. I wish more politicians were like that telling us what they actually believe, not pandering to more popular ideas. Big points for berny there.

About the Clinton hit men. With the mountains of cash they have they can hire the best hit men in the world. I'll try to find the story for you, it was about there days in Arkansas when the one man that had the dirt on them died for no natural reason. It is a conspiracy theory  but unlike JFK, the moon landing and 9/11 the questions and doubts have not been fully answered.

I'm not a conspery theorist but political hit jobs go back to when we were apes, it's in our blood though today restrained very well.




I can get behind a good conspiracy theory. I don't believe those sleezy bastards in Washington aren't willing or capable of conspiring. In fact, I think the situation regarding the TPP was quite a conspiracy. It was planned to play out in a very secretive manner, right in front of our eyes. Playing politics is generally the practice of conspiring. Have you ever watched house of cards? What a great show. I think its somewhat demonstrative of the atmosphere in Washington.

Also, I don't believe Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK.

By the way, you've mentioned a bad part about the TPP. I don't think it's 'the' bad part. The whole situation is bad, and I am assuming, since the bill is so secret, that it is also bad. What is the good thing about the TPP?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/03/15 12:46 PM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: psyconaught]
    #21893153 - 07/03/15 03:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
This thread just proves to me how much of a cult of personality Bernie Sanders really is.
"Bernie is love. Bernie is life."

Just like Obama was.




Let's judge everyone by their biggest fans.


--------------------


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #21893602 - 07/03/15 05:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I say "Bernie Sanders is the Democrats Ron Paul"... people say "No way! dude he has a huge online presence and his average donor gives $40!, his own party dislikes him and he is a man of character"....

lulz.

Here is what will happen. He will be outspent 4:1 by Hillary and remain to be a hope for libtards all the way up to the point where Hillary gets the nomination. Sanders voters will be split along half wanting to throw their support for Hillary and the other half urging Sanders to run independent..... which he won't. Whoever gets the GOP nom (jeb bush probably) will be such a scary notion for lefty's that they will proselytize the gospel of Hillary even though 2 months prior they were sharing articles about benghazi and email accounts to discredit her.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21894511 - 07/03/15 08:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
I say "Bernie Sanders is the Democrats Ron Paul"... people say "No way! dude he has a huge online presence and his average donor gives $40!, his own party dislikes him and he is a man of character"....

lulz.

Here is what will happen. He will be outspent 4:1 by Hillary and remain to be a hope for libtards all the way up to the point where Hillary gets the nomination. Sanders voters will be split along half wanting to throw their support for Hillary and the other half urging Sanders to run independent..... which he won't. Whoever gets the GOP nom (jeb bush probably) will be such a scary notion for lefty's that they will proselytize the gospel of Hillary even though 2 months prior they were sharing articles about benghazi and email accounts to discredit her.




Bernie's own party doesn't dislike him. I don't remember any talk of Ron Paul's average donation. I am pretty sure Bernie has raised more money than Ron Paul had at this point.

Ron Paul was much more fringe than Bernie Sanders. You couldn't find one other Republican taking the same stance as Ron Paul. There are several Democrats who have the same positions as Bernie Sanders. Even Hillary is starting to take some of his positions. Ron Paul ran against a slew of Republicans. Bernie is the only contender against Hillary. America as a whole is a Liberal leaning country. Ron Paul ran in a race in an election against an incumbent. There are no threats on the Republican side. This presidency will be won by a Democrat. We can afford to take a risk on our candidate.

This is not the same game as with Ron Paul, sorry.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/03/15 09:00 PM)


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21894787 - 07/03/15 10:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

According to Open Secrets Ron Pauls 2012 campaign saw 99% individual donations, with 44% of them being "small"... no idea what constitutes "small" on that website though.

Any candidate like Bernie that is going to potentially divide the vote and create a spectacle out of the primaries by staying in against a clear frontrunner is going to be problematic.

One thing BS has going for him is (i might be wrong about this) that the DNC does not allow winner-take-all states.

While Bernie is "surging" he has done so without the ire and black PR shit storm that is about to come his way. Remember Rp all of a sudden getting slammed with some "racist" newsletter bullshit from 1978? Yeah, nobody is squeaky clean and if there is any trace of Bernie anywhere on any minor traffic ticket it is about to be blown out of proportion into a media frenzy.

(when fox news is giving Bernie Sanders face time, you have to wonder why they would do such a thing?)


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #24355025 - 05/27/17 08:31 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Bernice supporter goes nuts on Portland train

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2017/05/police_responding_to_ne_portla.html

Quote:

Two men were killed in a stabbing on a MAX train Friday when they tried to intervene as another man yelled racial slurs at two young women who appeared to be Muslim, including one wearing a hijab, police said.

A third passenger who tried to help was also stabbed, but is expected to survive, said Portland police spokesman Sgt. Pete Simpson.






Wasn't there a Big Bad Bernice supporter here who threatened to go on a killing spree a while back?

Oh well, I'm sure they all aren't like that :shrug:

***:lol:


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #24355045 - 05/27/17 08:43 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Bernice supporter goes nuts on Portland train

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2017/05/police_responding_to_ne_portla.html

Quote:

Two men were killed in a stabbing on a MAX train Friday when they tried to intervene as another man yelled racial slurs at two young women who appeared to be Muslim, including one wearing a hijab, police said.

A third passenger who tried to help was also stabbed, but is expected to survive, said Portland police spokesman Sgt. Pete Simpson.






Wasn't there a Big Bad Bernice supporter here who threatened to go on a killing spree a while back?

Oh well, I'm sure they all aren't like that :shrug:

***:lol:





nowhere in the article is Sander's mentioned.  where are you getting that this person was a Sander's supporter?


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Invisiblevinsue
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: hostileuniverse] * 4
    #24355724 - 05/28/17 04:51 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Bernice supporter goes nuts on Portland train



Quote:

demiu5 said: nowhere in the article is Sander's mentioned.  where are you getting that this person was a Sander's supporter?



He pulls it out of his ass like most of his other shit posts.:shrug:

http://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2017/05/27/19041594/suspect-in-portland-hate-crime-murders-is-a-known-white-supremacist


Perhaps you should salute your comrade back HU.



What kind of fuckhead brings a bat to a protest? A Trump supporter?



:liar: . . . :peace:


--------------------

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  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: hostileuniverse] * 3
    #24355909 - 05/28/17 07:44 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Bernice supporter goes nuts on Portland train

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2017/05/police_responding_to_ne_portla.html

Quote:

Two men were killed in a stabbing on a MAX train Friday when they tried to intervene as another man yelled racial slurs at two young women who appeared to be Muslim, including one wearing a hijab, police said.

A third passenger who tried to help was also stabbed, but is expected to survive, said Portland police spokesman Sgt. Pete Simpson.






Wasn't there a Big Bad Bernice supporter here who threatened to go on a killing spree a while back?

Oh well, I'm sure they all aren't like that :shrug:

***:lol:




Why would you bump a 2 year old thread to call a neonazi a bernie supporter?

Amazing.


--------------------


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: hostileuniverse] * 2
    #24356252 - 05/28/17 11:36 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

come on, HU.  we've called you out on your bullshit and lies in this thread, with proof to show it.  where is your defense or rebuttal?


or will you admit to being a liar/make-believer?


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: demiu5] * 3
    #24356428 - 05/28/17 12:54 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

"Typical liberals attacking my character"


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OfflineTNK
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Re: perhaps this will clear some misconceptions about Bernie Sanders a bit.... [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #24356762 - 05/28/17 04:10 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

It's fake news propagated by visnue the Zionist media.


--------------------
Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)


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