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Deviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
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Anyone know where I can find more info on how the native americans used to use peyote?
#21871366 - 06/28/15 11:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I had another incredible cactus trip last night, which was so so healing for me.
I listened to native american shamanic music and it took me on an incredible journey during which I was shown the path of healing by the spirits of native americans who have passed on and are now with the Great Spirit.
I want to learn everything I can about this spiritual path, which seems almost a complete path in itself (provided one follows the lessons of the cactus in day to day life).. I dont feel this way about any other psychedelic. I mean mushrooms are awesome and wonderful but I cant ever see myself looking at mushrooms as a complete path in of themselves. I dunno, maybe if I had the right shamanic teachings/music I would feel differently. But anyway, I want to know how often the native americans recommend using cactus?
I am still very confused about whether I should focus on integration or keep spending my time in the cactus world. My last two trips have been so incredibly healing and wonderful. I put on the native american peyote music and I just get into this incredible groove that lasts the entire trip.
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
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Re: Anyone know where I can find more info on how the native americans used to use peyote? [Re: Deviate]
#21871438 - 06/29/15 12:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Many native americans do use peyote still. If you wanted info on how the ceremonies are held, I'd suggest looking online or calling the NAC.
But sacramental use of peyote is taking into your life. You shouldn't be tripping, and then go against the teachings. You must accept your teachings and let the enter your life.
Peyote is a great medicine spiritually, and I believe many psychedelics are. I actually am native american, but it's pretty uncommon for my tribe to participate in spiritual peyote use.I haven't participated in a peyote ceremony. Even though if I wanted to, I could.
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endogenous
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Re: Anyone know where I can find more info on how the native americans used to use peyote? [Re: Achillita]
#21871565 - 06/29/15 12:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The US gov said that the Native American Church believes that Peyote is the Deity. (This was recorded in the Federal Register during discussion of new drug legislation in the 1960s). The Church members pray to Peyote. That is the original reason why the US gov gave them an exemption to the law against Peyote. The thinking was that if someone believes Peyote to be God, then their religion couldn't exist without Peyote and therefore the importance of Peyote to their religion outweighed the government's interest in prohibition.
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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Achillita
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Re: Anyone know where I can find more info on how the native americans used to use peyote? [Re: endogenous]
#21871605 - 06/29/15 01:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Peyote never was considered "god". It's considered a sacrament to god though. The same time that they said native americans could use peyote is around the same time the US government legalized Native american religious practices.
It actually states in the bill that it is a sacrament to god, not god itself. It said it has been a sacrament for hundreds of years and is a necessity in native american religious practices. So they clearly understood that it wasn't god. But more like a sacrament similar to catholic wine.
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endogenous
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Re: Anyone know where I can find more info on how the native americans used to use peyote? [Re: Achillita]
#21871920 - 06/29/15 04:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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In 1970 Congress enacted a comprehensive revision of the narcotics laws, the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, which carried forward the controls on peyote, 21 U.S.C. § 812(c), Schedule I (c)(12). During hearings on this legislation, there occurred the following exchange between Congressman Satterfield and Mr. Sonnenreich of the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs:
Mr. Satterfield. I have one other question. I recall when we were discussing dangerous drugs a few years ago, the question came up about the Native American Church involving Indians in the west who use and have for centuries used peyote in connection with religious services. It is my understanding that they enjoy an exemption under the current law.
My question is whether in any of the bills we have before us, if passed, would in any way affect this present exemption?
1251 *1251 Mr. Sonnenreich. In the first instance, Mr. Satterfield, the Native American Church did ask us by letter as to whether or not the regulation, exempting them by regulation, would be continued and we assured them that it would because of the history of the church. We presently are involved in another hearing regarding another church that is a non-Indian church that is seeking the exemption and the order is going to be published. I believe, either today or tomorrow denying them the same exemption as the Native American Church.
We consider the Native American Church to be sui generis. The history and tradition of the church is such that there is no question but that they regard peyote as a deity as it were, and we will continue the exemption.
Mr. Satterfield. You do not see anything in the Senate bill that would make this impossible?
Mr. Sonnenreich. No. Under the existing law originally the Congress was going to write in a specific exemption but it was then decided that it would be handled by regulation and we intend to do it the same way under this law.
Mr. Satterfield. Thank you. I have no other questions.
(Drug Abuse Control Amendments of 1970, Hearings before the Subcommittee on Public Health & Welfare of the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce, House of Representatives, 91st Cong., 2d Sess. 117-18 (1970)).
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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endogenous
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Re: Anyone know where I can find more info on how the native americans used to use peyote? [Re: endogenous]
#21871926 - 06/29/15 04:12 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I would add that the "other church" mentioned, that was denied the exemption for Peyote, was the "Church of the Awakening". The reason they were denied was because they didn't believe that Peyote is a Deity. The court said that Peyote was therefore not needed for the existence of the church since, as they testified, they could reach God by other means such as meditation, etc.
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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Achillita
Back to the basics



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Re: Anyone know where I can find more info on how the native americans used to use peyote? [Re: endogenous]
#21872206 - 06/29/15 07:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't know if they just misunderstood, or if the church kidna lied. I'd probably say misunderstood though because the NAC says that peyote is the way to reach the fire of god.
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endogenous
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Re: Anyone know where I can find more info on how the native americans used to use peyote? [Re: Achillita]
#21874025 - 06/29/15 03:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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This is from the website of the Oklevueha Native American Church.
"The Huichole tribe now consists of about 25,000 people who live in the Sierra Madre Occidental mountain region of northwestern Mexico. Most of their sacred practices revolve around the use of peyote, which they hold as the physical manifestation of God.
....For the Huichole, peyote is much more than an intoxicant; it is a central feature of their lives. They pray to it, tell stories and dance to it, and use it for all types of illnesses, even childbirth, and rub the juices of fresh peyote into wounds to prevent infection and promote healing.
....The Tarahumara historically lived north of the Huichole in the Sierra Madre Occidental, but now many of the 50,000 members of the tribe have migrated to the hills and plains southwest of the city of Chihuahua. While the outward ritual of their peyote use is different from the Huichole, they share the belief that peyote is the flesh of God."
http://nativeamericanchurches.org/peyote-the-flesh-of-god/
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
Edited by endogenous (06/29/15 04:04 PM)
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germx99
Ghidra's Mahout



Registered: 08/05/14
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Re: Anyone know where I can find more info on how the native americans used to use peyote? [Re: endogenous]
#21874498 - 06/29/15 05:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Peyote is pretty prevalent among the tribes of the Southwest states. A very close friend is part of the Diné (Navajo), from what she has related to me, use of the hikuri takes a much different shape between the different clans making up the tribe. Her heritage exposes her to multiple clans. One side of the family is very casual about peyote use, their buttons are pickled similarly to cucumbers and kept to munch on when they feel the time is right. However, her other clan is ritualistic in their usage, and they typically use it conjunction with an elaborate fire ceremony.
She's told me one of the biggest takeaways from the teachings of the hikuri is that the religious practice surrounding the use of the cactus is ultimately atheistic at its core, much like Buddhism. "God" is worshiped not as deity, but as the mutual core within all nature, which the hikuri illuminates to the initiates who partake in its flesh.
There is a concept of local spirits in Vajrayana Buddhism, which holds similar validity within the folk beliefs of some clans of the Diné. These nesting-doll like energies of different ecosystems are a vital component of understanding the mutual core that links all nature together, how the morphologies of the microcosm mimic that of the macro, a perpetuation of Baphie's old adage, "As above, so below."
If you want the most out of your hikuri, prior to partaking in sacramental rites, it would be advisable to thoroughly update yourself on the environment where you live - its native fauna and their seasonal migration patterns, all the different plants you encounter on walks, the different waterways and how they flow into each other - basically just learn how everything interacts on a local level, come to see it similar to a neural network. When the time finally arrives for you to enjoy the flesh of peyote, you will be able to clearly recognize patterns within your ecosystem that wouldn't normally be perceived. The enhanced pattern recognition is why the cactus is famed for helping to find lost items and enabling preachers to see the causes behind illness. It is a skill that needs to be developed in everyday life to be fully put to use for "magical" purposes.
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Edited by germx99 (06/29/15 05:21 PM)
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Achillita
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Re: Anyone know where I can find more info on how the native americans used to use peyote? [Re: germx99]
#21874964 - 06/29/15 06:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Most native's I've talked to call it the love or the fire of god. Never god itself. Taking peyote though is praying in a sense. It's the communion with god and the spirits.
But considering the huichol are probably more of the original users. By Native american church, I mean the southwest Untied states americans in particular . Because honestly, the US laws do not allow mexican native americans to participate in traditional ceremonies of peyote use. Same as ayahuasca and south american natives.
While the more traditional natives (which are actually pretty rare) see it as the complete communion with nature and the great spirit. It's pretty much the more traditional view of it. Quite a bit of NAC practitioners use a christian view of the world, and speak of the bible. But Peyote is a way for them to reach god. But it's not really an atheist view. A lot of native culture focuses around that the great spirit is not in one place. It's the fabric of life. All around you, the air you breathe from the earth you walk.
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endogenous
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Re: Anyone know where I can find more info on how the native americans used to use peyote? [Re: Achillita]
#21876445 - 06/30/15 03:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The Oklevueha Native American Church is a merger of the Lakota and Oglala Sioux with the Oklevueha Seminole Native American Church.
The article about the Huichol and Tarahumara was from the Oklevueha NAC website. The Oklevueha Native American Church believes Peyote to be "the Flesh of God". http://nativeamericanchurches.org/onac-sacrament-peyote/
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
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Re: Anyone know where I can find more info on how the native americans used to use peyote? [Re: endogenous]
#21876739 - 06/30/15 06:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The flesh of god is a much different meaning than to be god itself. Just like saying wine is the blood of jesus. It's not saying the wine is jesus itself.
OP, you're gonna find many different traditions for peyote or cactus in general. It differs from tribe to tribe, and clan to clan. Especially when you look at cactus use in south america, it's all very different.
It's not how you use the cactus, it's what it teaches you, and how you follow that guide.
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voodoochild1000
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Re: Anyone know where I can find more info on how the native americans used to use peyote? [Re: Achillita]
#21877359 - 06/30/15 10:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The peyote cult by Weston La Barre.....
-------------------- ....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD ...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post
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endogenous
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Re: Anyone know where I can find more info on how the native americans used to use peyote? [Re: Achillita]
#21878494 - 06/30/15 03:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said: The flesh of god is a much different meaning than to be god itself.
To some people, such as "Christians", who call a wheat wafer "the Flesh of God", there is a different meaning. But since the Oklevueha NAC posted the page on the Huichol and Tarahumara under the banner "The Flesh of God", I think it's clear that when they use that term they are believing the same thing as the Huichol and Tarahumara.
Also, I would think that the representatives of the NAC who the Bureau of Narcotics was talking to, were not lying or meaning something other than the understanding that was given -- i.e. - that they believe Peyote is the Deity.
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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endogenous
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Re: Anyone know where I can find more info on how the native americans used to use peyote? [Re: Achillita]
#21895372 - 07/04/15 02:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said: The flesh of god is a much different meaning than to be god itself. Just like saying wine is the blood of jesus. It's not saying the wine is jesus itself.
To some "Christians" the bread and wine are not thought to be the actual flesh and blood of Christ. To others it is the actual flesh and blood.
What you are saying isn't clear to me. Are you saying that people think the wine is an actual part of Christ's Body, but not His whole Body? Or are you saying that people think the wine is just a symbol of His Body but not actually His Body?
-------------------- The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.
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