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OfflinePsilosopherr
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'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning?
    #21870237 - 06/28/15 07:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I usually spawn to bulk in little 6 quart tubs, and then fruit them in a SGFC.

Side pinning is always an issue. The substrate has already shrunk away from the walls of the tub by the time the first flush starts, so it starts right off the bat.

I was just lamenting the situation as I misted and fanned when it occurred to me that the 6 quart tub holding the substrate is now pointless, and could be removed. Could I not just flip my mycelial patty out onto a piece of foil similar to how you'd fruit a pf-tek cake?

Seems like it might be better because more surface area can pin that way. And it'd be easier to dunk between flushes. Or am I better off using liners from now on? (wow, have I really never tried that?)

(I have a feeling that this is not a new idea and that I just failed in my keyword selection when searching for it.)


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21870256 - 06/28/15 07:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Occams razor.


--------------------

Once you understand the way broadly, you see it in all things. -Musashi


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Matt87]
    #21870279 - 06/28/15 07:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

In short yes you can. Mudafuka used to flip the subs up in his monos after first flush and get pins from all sides.  I have pulled subs outta the mono and fruited them in a SGFC to free the tub up. But I don't really mind side pins. They are easy enough to harvest.  I prefer liners because i dislike condensation running down onto the sub. With a liner it runs behind.


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21870749 - 06/28/15 09:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Smooth, flat and level substrate. Try it


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: azur]
    #21870775 - 06/28/15 09:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

azur said:
Smooth, flat and level substrate. Try it



this most recent bin of mine was quite flat.


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21870834 - 06/28/15 10:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Was it also smooth and level?


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: azur]
    #21870875 - 06/28/15 10:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

azur said:
Was it also smooth and level?



flat, smooth, level, even, whatever you want to call it :shrug:

whats that got to do with side pins though?


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21870961 - 06/28/15 10:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Don't see why not.  If hey have a thin side, you could also put them sideways to increase space efficiency if they will stand up.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21870981 - 06/28/15 10:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

azur said:
Was it also smooth and level?



flat, smooth, level, even, whatever you want to call it :shrug:

whats that got to do with side pins though?



Smooth, flat and level are three different things. Achieve all three and side pinning is not an issue.

A hill can be smooth
A flat book can be not level
A level slab of concrete can be unsmooth


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: azur]
    #21871067 - 06/28/15 10:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'd just think there are, in simple terms, only two states a substrate can be in. Roughly mixed, or roughly mixed and then leveled out. Hence my ignoring semantics

(I don't see how you'd achieve a smooth surface on a substrate anyways?)

And still don't see how the top being flat would effect side pinning :confused:


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21871111 - 06/28/15 10:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Fine then. Don't listen. Enjoy your side pins


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: azur]
    #21871192 - 06/28/15 11:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I know we kinda got off on the wrong foot, but I thought I was being perfectly pleasant

Either way. Would be nice to know what flatness has to do with side pinning though.


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21871237 - 06/28/15 11:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If you're cropping surface is smooth, flat and level, everywhere on the surface will be the same. Therefore you will get a good pinning surface.
Got a pic if these trays?


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: azur]
    #21871709 - 06/29/15 01:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

but the substrate still shrinks. It would still leave gaps in the sides. :confused: I simply don't see the connection. Explaining why it helps would shed some light on this.

I'm gonna go ahead and just use liners in the future. easy fix that addresses the problem at hand


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Matt87]
    #21871766 - 06/29/15 02:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Matt87 said:
Occams razor.



?


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21871792 - 06/29/15 02:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Pins form where the conditions are the best. They form on the sides because the humidity, moisture, etc. is just right there. There are various ways to avoid side pins, but the big question is: do you really want to? If conditions are the best there, why not just let it be?

I realize of course for practical reasons you may want them all on top when harvest time rolls around, but still, I've never found side pins to be difficult. In fact, the best quality mushroom I ever had was a side pin.


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: nooneman]
    #21871851 - 06/29/15 02:55 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

High spots in the substrate are dryer than the low spots meaning the high spots won't pin just the low spots. A flat level surface stays evenly moist no dry spots . Jmo


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21872173 - 06/29/15 07:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

Matt87 said:
Occams razor.



?



In other words, the easiest most obvious answer is almost always the right choice.

Yes. Exposing all sides would make a larger harvest.


--------------------

Once you understand the way broadly, you see it in all things. -Musashi


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Matt87]
    #21872430 - 06/29/15 08:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Why not use a liner?

I can't stand side pins.  They're easy enough to harvest but I hate picking the substrate off of them.


--------------------
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To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Matt87]
    #21872456 - 06/29/15 09:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Matt87 said:
Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

Matt87 said:
Occams razor.



?



In other words, the easiest most obvious answer is almost always the right choice.

Yes. Exposing all sides would make a larger harvest.




Assuming you have proper conditions still. I'd expect those edges to dry out faster.
I like flat growing surfaces. Side pins are a bitch, especially when they start at bottom and work their way around.


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21872487 - 06/29/15 09:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Shouldn't you use a liner? It's the shit. It'll make it not have side pins and you can pull the entire substrate out and work on a table too. Which is great if there still is side pins :smile:

Could try casings too. Really helps maintain a good microclimate on the surface if you're having issues not being able to have a good enough surface humidity. I noticed a big difference in side pins using it on my trays.


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Edited by Mad Season (06/29/15 09:17 AM)


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21872739 - 06/29/15 10:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Matt87 said:
Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

Matt87 said:
Occams razor.



?



In other words, the easiest most obvious answer is almost always the right choice.

Yes. Exposing all sides would make a larger harvest.



:hatsoff:

Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
Quote:

Matt87 said:
Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

Matt87 said:
Occams razor.



?



In other words, the easiest most obvious answer is almost always the right choice.

Yes. Exposing all sides would make a larger harvest.




Assuming you have proper conditions still. I'd expect those edges to dry out faster.
I like flat growing surfaces. Side pins are a bitch, especially when they start at bottom and work their way around.



Yeah I was concerned about it drying faster too. I could give it a dunk and roll like a pf cake

I hate side pins because they usually cause me to rip off chunks of substrate when they are in tricky places. And a lot more coir/verm to clean off the stems as well

I like the idea of pulling out the whole substrate for harvesting mad-season, hadn't thought about that :thumbup:

The veils just broke on the first flush so I'll be birthing this thing real soon. Will try to remember to update :shrug: (but yeah, unless that goes really well I'll be doing liners from now on)

Thanks all :wave:


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21892641 - 07/03/15 01:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yay! A current thread about my question!

My thought was, if they like side-pinning, why not give them what they want?

If we birth a tub, it would give greater surface area for fruiting. But, it would also eliminate the tight space between the container and the sub. Wouldn't this also eliminate this being a "micro-climate?"

However, couldn't we treat it like a giant pf cake and mist like in a shotgun FC or maybe put it in a Martha-like greenhouse? Wouldn't this possibly produce bigger flushes (assuming good pinning) and decrease the number of flushes and or time spent flushing?


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: PutACapInHisAss]
    #21892658 - 07/03/15 01:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I was going to pull quotes but I got hella lazy. Just check out this thread. Especially the last half of it.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21892315#21892315


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Edited by Mad Season (07/03/15 01:23 PM)


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Mad Season]
    #21893442 - 07/03/15 04:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Got 3 birthed tubs right now. They're a little more fragile than I expected, but I got them all out with minimal damage. Just a couple torn off corners.

Will try to remember to update once they start pinning again.


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21896430 - 07/04/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Awesome! I would love to know the results. I don't think it will avoid side pinning. I think the opposite will happen. After all, cakes sometimes side pin like crazy!
Quote:

rbalzer said:
Will try to remember to update once they start pinning again.




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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: PutACapInHisAss]
    #21900791 - 07/05/15 12:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Well 2 of the 3 beds have started pinning.

One of them is favoring the sides of the substrate, as one of you predicted. But the second has a really good looking pinset, nearly all of them on the top of the sub.

I don't think I'll be birthing tubs in the future though. The pins on the sides are hitting the sides of my SGFC. And it would be impossible to dunk them without damaging them.


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #21904522 - 07/06/15 08:37 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

When spawning PF to bulk I use a monotub not a SGFC. The holes in your SGFC likely caused a good climate on the sides, which is why you're getting so many side pins.
Just my guess though. Could be genetics.


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #21904765 - 07/06/15 10:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah I'm liking my SGFC less and less now that I've got my first real mono going.


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22802043 - 01/20/16 04:48 AM (8 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
Quote:

Matt87 said:
In other words, the easiest most obvious answer is almost always the right choice.

Yes. Exposing all sides would make a larger harvest.




Assuming you have proper conditions still. I'd expect those edges to dry out faster.
I like flat growing surfaces. Side pins are a bitch, especially when they start at bottom and work their way around.



Yeah I was concerned about it drying faster too. I could give it a dunk and roll like a pf cake

I hate side pins because they usually cause me to rip off chunks of substrate when they are in tricky places. And a lot more coir/verm to clean off the stems as well

I like the idea of pulling out the whole substrate for harvesting mad-season, hadn't thought about that :thumbup:

The veils just broke on the first flush so I'll be birthing this thing real soon. Will try to remember to update :shrug: (but yeah, unless that goes really well I'll be doing liners from now on)

Thanks all :wave:



First off, my apologies for bumping an old thread.
Right now ive created a big fuckup with my 6 quart trays, check it out to see what I'm talking about https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22738259/fpart/all/vc/1

My concern is, removing this and placing into my mono they're already in. I feel that because my tray walls are higher than the poly it pretty much isn't giving the surface area well enough FAE.

My curiosity comes from side pinning already happening quite a lot already so early in my first flush.

Would doing so with a casing layer already applied be a problem since most of it will fall off from flipping it out? Can I just get a surface cleaned to do this on and recollect the remanants and reapply once placed in my mono, or would it be a huge contam risk?

If one of these trays were dunked to avoid excessive drying before my first flush from doing so, would it ruin my preexisting pins on the top surface?

Again, sorry for the bump.


Edited by sai (01/20/16 04:52 AM)


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22802147 - 01/20/16 06:33 AM (8 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
Could I not just flip my mycelial patty out onto a piece of foil similar to how you'd fruit a pf-tek cake?





Not sure if others pointed this out already, I haven't read any posts below yours but mycelium is known to eat the shit out of aluminium so I think you're better off either flipping it on it's side or putting it on plastic wrapping or something.


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: sai]
    #22802829 - 01/20/16 11:10 AM (8 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

sai said:
Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
Quote:

Matt87 said:
In other words, the easiest most obvious answer is almost always the right choice.

Yes. Exposing all sides would make a larger harvest.




Assuming you have proper conditions still. I'd expect those edges to dry out faster.
I like flat growing surfaces. Side pins are a bitch, especially when they start at bottom and work their way around.



Yeah I was concerned about it drying faster too. I could give it a dunk and roll like a pf cake

I hate side pins because they usually cause me to rip off chunks of substrate when they are in tricky places. And a lot more coir/verm to clean off the stems as well

I like the idea of pulling out the whole substrate for harvesting mad-season, hadn't thought about that :thumbup:

The veils just broke on the first flush so I'll be birthing this thing real soon. Will try to remember to update :shrug: (but yeah, unless that goes really well I'll be doing liners from now on)

Thanks all :wave:



First off, my apologies for bumping an old thread.
Right now ive created a big fuckup with my 6 quart trays, check it out to see what I'm talking about https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22738259/fpart/all/vc/1

My concern is, removing this and placing into my mono they're already in. I feel that because my tray walls are higher than the poly it pretty much isn't giving the surface area well enough FAE.

My curiosity comes from side pinning already happening quite a lot already so early in my first flush.

Would doing so with a casing layer already applied be a problem since most of it will fall off from flipping it out? Can I just get a surface cleaned to do this on and recollect the remanants and reapply once placed in my mono, or would it be a huge contam risk?

If one of these trays were dunked to avoid excessive drying before my first flush from doing so, would it ruin my preexisting pins on the top surface?

Again, sorry for the bump.



don't worry about the bump. I can't for the life of me understand why so many people on this site even give a second thought to how old a thread happens to be.

that said I can't offer much help other than the last question. Dunking with pins will not damage the pins in itself.


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22802875 - 01/20/16 11:28 AM (8 years, 11 days ago)

Try it if you want. I used to birth a lot of bulk subs when I ran a green house. I've also flipped a lot of bulk subs on their side in mono tubs. Your yeilds won't change and you get some pretty cool looking growth sometimes. The one drawback is your substrate will dry out faster and generally requires more misting.


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22803797 - 01/20/16 03:23 PM (8 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

MudaFuka said:
Try it if you want. I used to birth a lot of bulk subs when I ran a green house. I've also flipped a lot of bulk subs on their side in mono tubs. Your yeilds won't change and you get some pretty cool looking growth sometimes. The one drawback is your substrate will dry out faster and generally requires more misting.




Thanks for letting me know :smile:

Quote:

rbalzer said:

don't worry about the bump. I can't for the life of me understand why so many people on this site even give a second thought to how old a thread happens to be.

that said I can't offer much help other than the last question. Dunking with pins will not damage the pins in itself.




I had never messed with bulk subs before ever, the sub was WAY softer than i thought it'd be. I just let my sub float in my sink for now, the casing layer basically just stuck to it mostly. I took my time since there has been peoples who had theirs crack on them.

Since theres already pretty decent sized pins already on top i didnt think it'd be safe to put something ontop to fully dunk it, i'm just letting it sit there for about an hour, i'm sure it doesn't need THAT much water absorbed, or would I need to let it sit a few more hrs? I dont want the casing to come off it will cause problems.


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: sai]
    #22803825 - 01/20/16 03:30 PM (8 years, 11 days ago)

Give it 2-4 houres. Don't worry about the casing too much.


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Invisiblesai

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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: MudaFuka]
    #22803890 - 01/20/16 03:44 PM (8 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

MudaFuka said:
Give it 2-4 houres. Don't worry about the casing too much.



Thanks for the quick response ! It just hit the 1hr mark of sitting there so far. Hope all goes well with this. I feel so dumb for doing this all wrong lol.


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: sai]
    #22809704 - 01/22/16 02:28 AM (8 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

sai said:
Quote:

MudaFuka said:
Give it 2-4 houres. Don't worry about the casing too much.



Thanks for the quick response ! It just hit the 1hr mark of sitting there so far. Hope all goes well with this. I feel so dumb for doing this all wrong lol.




After I harvest I fill the tub itself with water. Not too much because then I take my PC, fill it with water and slowly put that on my substrate. Filling the tub too much you'll end up making a mess on the floor. There's probably a better way to fully submerge the sub underwater like taping the holes (if that holds.) But it seems to be enough hydration for the coming flush. The sub bends a bit, especially if the tub is longer than normal but so far, I haven't had a substrate break in two pieces. When its time to empty the water I just hold the substrate and tip it slowly.

Not sure if there's a "wrong" way to do this, as long as you give your sub enough water for the coming flush, you're good to go. Sinks,tubs, submarines are all good I guess


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #22810027 - 01/22/16 06:59 AM (8 years, 9 days ago)

I stick my tubs in the bathtub and let the shower run over them for a few minutes. Then I fill them up and just let the substrate float for a few hours. After that they get another rinse under the shower and go back into fruiting. I used to weigh the sub down under the water but I don't bother anymore. There really is no wrong way of dunking. Just do what works for you.


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: MudaFuka]
    #22811332 - 01/22/16 02:26 PM (8 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

MudaFuka said:
I stick my tubs in the bathtub and let the shower run over them for a few minutes. Then I fill them up and just let the substrate float for a few hours. After that they get another rinse under the shower and go back into fruiting. I used to weigh the sub down under the water but I don't bother anymore. There really is no wrong way of dunking. Just do what works for you.



In the shower??  :awwhellno:  wouldn't the pressure from that damage the myc?


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InvisibleMudaFuka
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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: sai]
    #22811340 - 01/22/16 02:28 PM (8 years, 9 days ago)

No.


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: MudaFuka]
    #22811412 - 01/22/16 02:47 PM (8 years, 9 days ago)

I might just try that out after my first flush, although my casing would be SOAKED,or probably just everywhere, would leaving it that wet ruin things?


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: sai]
    #22811471 - 01/22/16 03:02 PM (8 years, 9 days ago)

Moste of my uncolonised casing layer gets washed off afterm the first flush but cubes don't need a casing so I don't sweat it.


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: MudaFuka]
    #22811541 - 01/22/16 03:17 PM (8 years, 9 days ago)

One of my trays is pinned a bit too far along to physically pick it up, I'm thinking about filling up the bathtub and holding down my tray just to let gravity do its thing. I just didn't want the casing to wash away if I still need it..


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Re: 'Birthing' tubs to avoid side pinning? [Re: sai]
    #22811586 - 01/22/16 03:31 PM (8 years, 9 days ago)

Whatever you find easiest.


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