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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? * 2
    #21864227 - 06/27/15 12:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I am a big fan of free speech, and I firmly believe there is a place for discussing the issue of race in the pub.  I do not want to censor anyone's speech or make the job for the many mods I do respect there any harder than it has to be, as I think we all come here to share ideas and pass the time together.

I have always liked the pub because for a long time I felt there was a good balance of provocative conversation and thoughtful skepticism, but lately things have taken a turn for the worse in my opinion.  One of the moderators here seems completely unwilling to acknowledge that racism exists, that it is inherently wrong and offensive, it does hurt people, and that many people find it disgusting and offensive on a fundamental level.  I honestly thought that was why the strongly worded policy prohibiting racism existed for the pub, not because people were afraid to confront what racism actually is, and are afraid of being associated with the well deserved negative stigma associated with racism.

I know this is a privately operated forum that can be run within the limits of free speech, but I would genuinely like to know:

Why is someone who denies that racism exists moderating a forum that is supposedly not tolerant of racists?  Is that policy just for show?  Am I crazy and misunderstanding racism, thinking that associating things like criminality or capability with the color of someone's skin is not even borderline racist, it is just plain old school racism?

When confronted the people making such statements attempt to apply existential and pedantic arguments, but to me that does not excuse it in any way, and I am genuinely surprised if the administrators here are falling for that.  Why have a policy on racism if you do not understand what racism is?  How does the shroomery define racism?

Pris#1 claims I am a racist because I do not like police.  He gets alot of support for ideas like this, and me and others who challenge him consistently get railroaded until we're furious to the point of potentially saying someone incriminating, which I believe prisoner1 particularly enjoys in a way that is sadistic and disgusting considering he is standing up for people who say completely racist things, by any conventional definition.

I believe that is what happened to get akira banned, and I believe I have proof of that and much more racism here at the Shroomery that is consistently overlooked and even normalized to the point where anyone who stands up against it is going to be ostracized.

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

because race is fiction, racism doesnt exist and you've again exposed your bigotry



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21849589#21849589

Quote:

...
so if you want to promote tolerance, you need to have tolerance for the bigots
since it's clear that you are one as well. maybe it's time we promote racist
diversity instead of racial diversity since the latter still promotes
intolerance and bigotry




Quote:

Quote:

racism cant exist, race is a social construct




the rules in the pub are "absolutely no racism", should that only apply to non
whites or should it apply to all people equally?







He just does't seem to get it, which is ok, but I genuinely cannot fathom why someone who doesn't adknowledge racism even exists is in charge of a forum that is supposed to be non-racist.  I know he will probably come in here and try to say things like "if race doesn't exist how can racism?" and honestly I am so tired and deeply disturbed by hearing that blatant ignorance again and again it is seriously causing me to not enjoy my time here and think that by coming here I am condoning this sort of behavior.

Please let me know if you consider these concerns valid.  I know this is a long rambling rant, but I am genuinely disturbed by the fact that if pris#1 or one of his cronies says something racist and uses dumb semantic arguments like that it is allowed to slide, and then the people who get angry at him for perpetuating racism are liable to be banned if they slightly step out of line.  He trolled using racism, then banned akira when he rightfully was angered by that.  I'm not saying akira couldn't have handled it differently, but the level of hypocriticism is stunning to me.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21863435#21863435
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
he's another meandering schriven slithole who once wanted to post here to his post his music, and then turned...into a horrible trolly thing.





the temptation to simply lock this thread is great but the :banhamster: is far more satisfying




Edited by moonrockmushy (06/27/15 12:50 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: moonrockmushy] * 2
    #21865571 - 06/27/15 06:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

could you show us the racism?


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21867204 - 06/28/15 04:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Why are they "black teens?" What's wrong with just calling them "teens?" That's what the story would say if they were white.





you're right, they're like hookers, they should only be called black teens when
they're shot by cops or are found dead in the trunk of a car



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
In my opinion only a coward would stay quiet because they were worried about other people judging them for "melting".  Despite what the fedora wearing neckbeards on the internet and the underage dipshits who love to ride their dicks say, human equality is a perfectly good thing to be passionate about.

I would be more concerned being called a racist from someone who doesn't advocate for racial segregation or maintain that the racial categories common in America have value beyond identifying who is likely to have been the subject of racial discrimination.



If there are no races how can there be racial discrimination?  You are intellectually bereft.





Quote:

Malcolm_Xtasy said:
Quote:

The actual title was "Savage: Brooklyn Teens Slap Uber Driver Repeatedly For Refusing To Drive Them!". OP changed it.





:trollcop:



Quote:

Rebelutionsssss said:
Why are black teens always doing this shit




Quote:

Gorlax said:
I don't think black people will be happy until white people become slaves...






When people point out that associating black people with criminality is an offensive stereotype you will dig in and at any length deny that racism exists.  When people bring up a statistic and use it to validate a racist stereotype, you will back them using stupid semantic debates about if racism even exists or not, and how there is a statistic and the racist statement must be a fact.

Racism does exist.  It is offensive.  There is a definition of racism in the dictionary.  When zappa tells me that he has in fact given me a concrete definition of the word "Negro" and that it is a discrete biological group with inherent differences that is racism.  When you then deny that racism even exists and try to come with the angle "If race doesn't exist how can racism" you are reinforcing these racist statements.

You need to cut that shit out.  It's not a discussion we should be having, if racism exists or not.  If you can be so stupid as to not see how that encourages racism I severely underestimated you.  I want someone to explain to me why a moderator is so invested in the idea that racism doesn't exist isn't encouraging racism but rather providing a fair and balanced viewpoint because, hey, maybe it is partially correct.


Edited by moonrockmushy (06/28/15 04:34 AM)


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21867217 - 06/28/15 04:28 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'm seriously done here you can have the pub.  You're a disgusting human being if you think that is acceptable.  You equate understanding the racist viewpoint with tolerance and equality.  This is not a liberal issue, this is a human decency issue.


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Offlinesprinkles
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: moonrockmushy] * 2
    #21867229 - 06/28/15 04:45 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

sounds like something a racist would say. 




Only a racist could make up such lies and perceive everything as racist from a racist perspective.  :ifyoucanawe:


--------------------
welcome to my world http://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Board/326


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OfflineRebelutionsssss
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Registered: 07/23/14
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: sprinkles]
    #21867238 - 06/28/15 04:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:kittywalk:


--------------------
:
To define is to confine.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
    #21867245 - 06/28/15 05:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You are free to think I'm a racist, but I stand for the idea that all people are essentially equal regardless of race.  Not that all races are equal.  People who don't understand the difference are racist in my opinion, and since I can't get them to admit in any way shape of form that yes, racism is a problem, I am not willing to even be around them.  When you place people in mutually exclusive categories by skin tone or whatever, that is the basis of racism.  I'm not even saying it can never come up, but when I point out that the premise behind this is flawed, rather than adknowledge I am right in any way people paint me as a crazy liberal who views everything through a racist lens, which is disturbing to me.  I feel like non-racism should be the standard.

I resent the accusation that I am racist and consider the things people are saying about my intentions baseless.  I'm starting to believe that people actually do think I'm crazy, which does make me more mad.  Rather than let people use this against me I'm going to opt out of the conversation from now on, but I stand by everything I have said.


Edited by moonrockmushy (06/28/15 05:06 AM)


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OfflineRebelutionsssss
Mdmazing
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: moonrockmushy] * 3
    #21867253 - 06/28/15 05:13 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yea dude you're the one coming off as the raceist IMO


--------------------
:
To define is to confine.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: moonrockmushy] * 1
    #21867273 - 06/28/15 05:24 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
people paint me as a crazy liberal who views everything through a racist lens




That how you come across.


Quote:

I'm seriously done here you can have the pub.




The air suddenly smells cleaner.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (06/28/15 07:08 AM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21867302 - 06/28/15 06:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
In my opinion only a coward would stay quiet because they were worried about other people judging them for "melting".  Despite what the fedora wearing neckbeards on the internet and the underage dipshits who love to ride their dicks say, human equality is a perfectly good thing to be passionate about.

I would be more concerned being called a racist from someone who doesn't advocate for racial segregation or maintain that the racial categories common in America have value beyond identifying who is likely to have been the subject of racial discrimination.



If there are no races how can there be racial discrimination?  You are intellectually bereft.










How is my post racist?  You have repeatedly asserted that there are no races.  If there are no races then there can be no racism.


--------------------


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21868890 - 06/28/15 02:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You are so fucking stupid it is astounding.  Have a nice circle jerk.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21868922 - 06/28/15 02:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think pris or anyone else here is denying that racism exists, or that some people on the shroomery are racist. I think Pris and the others are arguing rather over what qualifies as racism, when, why, who, etc.

I'm sure everyone here has encountered actual racists IRL. God knows I have.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: nooneman]
    #21869271 - 06/28/15 04:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

He says there are no races.  If here are no races there can't be racism.  I'm not the one making the idiotic argument.  I am fully aware that there is racism but I also realize that in order for there to be racism you have to have races.  Something middle school doesn't seem to grok.


--------------------


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: nooneman]
    #21869375 - 06/28/15 04:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It's just ridiculous to me.  I don't want to even hate on anyone for what I perceive as racism, but people are trying to paint me as a crazy liberal asshole because I say that people are essentially equal, or that the concept of race is flawed at it's core. 

These are statements I believe to be truths, and I'm normally happy to argue that as an equal with anyone but lately there has been the pseudo-intellectual frenzy that I find disturbing.  I want to make it clear that taking a statistic or anecdote and claiming that is proof of distinct races is in fact racism.  You can say that you treat all races equally all day long, but until people acknowledge that all skin color means is skin color and "Negro" is not a population group defined in a concise way that is recognized by any modern science, it will always be racism.

I don't know why people think I said race doesn't exist.  I don't know why people feel it is necessary to argue the existence of a concept.  I don't know why that is relevant.

I've tried to state this many times and people just keep throwing the same thing in my face again and again, probably because they enjoy seeing me get upset.  I'll get over it, and honestly it probably would do me some good to just back off, but I wanted to state my case because alot of people here who I always considered reasonable skeptics seem to be going off the deep end with this "race doesn't exist so racism can't exist." thing when in the context of a racially sensitive issue that alone is somewhat offensive.

I consider it trolling at this point, and whatever fun some people get out of antagonizing others I've had enough.  I realize that this is very self-centered of me on many levels, but I appreciate the people who heard me out.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21869669 - 06/28/15 05:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
I consider it trolling at this point




If your ability to recognize trolling is as piss-poor as your ability to recognize racism, you're screwed.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21869760 - 06/28/15 05:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Dude, you've made your point already. Give it a rest, willya?


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Offlineqman
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: Le_Canard]
    #21870029 - 06/28/15 07:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Le_Canard said:
Dude, you've made your point already. Give it a rest, willya?




Actually not, he continues to contradict himself and yes he should give it a rest!


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InvisibleAdden
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: qman]
    #21870118 - 06/28/15 07:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Pris and Wiccan should give it a rest.

I liked Rose's idea of scrapping racism threads in the Pub and moving them to the Romp so people can speak freely.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: Adden]
    #21872520 - 06/29/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'm just stressed out anyways from personal issues and I don't appreciate into the guy that likes to argue about this all the time.  It is not something I am willing to compromise on and I don't like feeling I am backed into a corner because someone thinks that my views are crazy all the time.  Like I said alot of this has to do with me personally, but I can't keep my mouth shut regarding this and it stopped being fun a long time ago so I'm done.

This is my feedback, it's nothing personal but I genuinely don't understand why people can't see how simple what I am saying is.  It's like I'm speaking a different language entirely.  I didn't call anyone a racist because they had an opinion, I said it is racist to imply that there are discrete biological groups for humans known as races.  When a stupid article or statistic comes up and people use it to make a snarky racist comment, and then tell me it is not only racist it is a fact, I would much rather the conversation just end with the fact that is racist rather than have to argue for days with people including a mod over what I consider a simple fact just to feed their egos.

On some level I am a hypocrite here, but if that is what the pub is about it's soured my experience to the point I've stopped enjoying it.  I appreciate I can just ignore people, but when I started seeing people getting riled up and then banned over this it made me question what type of community this really was.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why are people including moderators allowed to troll the pub using racism? [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21876254 - 06/30/15 12:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
It's just ridiculous to me.  I don't want to even hate on anyone for what I perceive as racism, but people are trying to paint me as a crazy liberal asshole because I say that people are essentially equal, or that the concept of race is flawed at it's core. 

These are statements I believe to be truths, and I'm normally happy to argue that as an equal with anyone but lately there has been the pseudo-intellectual frenzy that I find disturbing.  I want to make it clear that taking a statistic or anecdote and claiming that is proof of distinct races is in fact racism.  You can say that you treat all races equally all day long, but until people acknowledge that all skin color means is skin color and "Negro" is not a population group defined in a concise way that is recognized by any modern science, it will always be racism.

I don't know why people think I said race doesn't exist.  I don't know why people feel it is necessary to argue the existence of a concept.  I don't know why that is relevant.

I've tried to state this many times and people just keep throwing the same thing in my face again and again, probably because they enjoy seeing me get upset.  I'll get over it, and honestly it probably would do me some good to just back off, but I wanted to state my case because alot of people here who I always considered reasonable skeptics seem to be going off the deep end with this "race doesn't exist so racism can't exist." thing when in the context of a racially sensitive issue that alone is somewhat offensive.

I consider it trolling at this point, and whatever fun some people get out of antagonizing others I've had enough.  I realize that this is very self-centered of me on many levels, but I appreciate the people who heard me out.





how is your bigotry any different from the bigotry of the 'racists'?


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