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Dr. Bluethumb
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Registered: 02/17/15
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Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Straw. Sterilization or pasteurization
#21863525 - 06/27/15 10:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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The subject is pretty self explanatory. I am thinking about using a straw/coir based sub and then adding a thin layer of millet on the top of the whole deal. Of course, this will be done in mycobags. Now my question is is there any reason straw should not be sterilized? Of course i know it will still colonize but does straw lose it's potency when sterilized? I've had nothing but trouble with pasteutized straw. I've tried chemical pasteurization (lime soak) and hot bath. I've had limited success but very limited. Now coir on the other hand is a solid sub for me that flushes at least three times before contams set in. What I'm thinking is perhaps if i could allow the straw to colonize in a sterile environment first it would dramatically decrease contamination rates. Any thoughts or concerns with this methodology?
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
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Re: Straw. Sterilization or pasteurization [Re: Dr. Bluethumb]
#21863637 - 06/27/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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you don't want to sterilize your bulk substrate usually. pasteurize.
Are you sure you're pasteurizing properly? (if you click the "how frank gets shit done" link in my sig, there's a good pasteurization tek in there)
because coir is more contam resistant. That could be why coir works but not straw. Maybe you get the straw too hot during pasteurization (which causes partial sterilization, which is bad)
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Dr. Bluethumb
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Re: Straw. Sterilization or pasteurization [Re: Psilosopherr]
#21863654 - 06/27/15 10:34 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I shoot for 175 and never exceed 185. I pasteurize horse poo with pretty good results. I have even done well with castings which have a tendency to turn to mud.
Edited by Dr. Bluethumb (06/27/15 10:38 AM)
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Dr. Bluethumb
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Re: Straw. Sterilization or pasteurization [Re: Dr. Bluethumb]
#21863685 - 06/27/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've had great success with using straw outdoors without pasteurization. But indoors it seems to be a trich magnet.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Straw. Sterilization or pasteurization [Re: Dr. Bluethumb]
#21863687 - 06/27/15 10:41 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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If you plan to spawn to it in open air you must pasteurize. If its to be colonized invitro then sterilization is fine. However sterilizing straw in a bag and adding a layer of colonized wbs sounds like it would stall out.
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holycow
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Re: Straw. Sterilization or pasteurization [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21863700 - 06/27/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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pardon me asking, but why would sterilising straw and then spawning it with colonized wbs stall out?
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: Straw. Sterilization or pasteurization [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21863703 - 06/27/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Invitro its better to mix the straw with your grain or flour source and use liquids to inoculate. This of course is dependent on your ability to create a clean LC or LI. This was nothing but straw and whole wheat flour.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Straw. Sterilization or pasteurization [Re: holycow]
#21863716 - 06/27/15 10:47 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
holycow said: pardon me asking, but why would sterilising straw and then spawning it with colonized wbs stall out?
Because its a long distance to colonize. Gravity is going to pull the moisture to the bottom over time messing up the water content. the top of the bag will be in a fruiting state while the bottom is still colonizing. Its better to get good dispersion of inoculate.
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Dr. Bluethumb
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Re: Straw. Sterilization or pasteurization [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21863739 - 06/27/15 10:52 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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So perhaps a 1/1/1 straw/coir/millet mix well mixed together? Or should I go heavier on the millet? I already have a clean Texas and pink buffalo lc.
Edited by Dr. Bluethumb (06/27/15 10:54 AM)
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



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Re: Straw. Sterilization or pasteurization [Re: Dr. Bluethumb]
#21863752 - 06/27/15 10:55 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dr. Bluethumb said: I shoot for 175 and never exceed 185. I pasteurize horse poo with pretty good results. I have even done well with castings which have a tendency to turn to mud.
that might be your problem right there. I don't think you should exceed 170. between 140 and 160 is your sweet spot (i'll double check just in case I'm wrong, but I'm quite sure)
Also, its important to have a thermometer in the center of your substrate. Its the inner temperature of that which matters, not the temp of the water.
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Psilosopherr
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Registered: 02/15/12
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Re: Straw. Sterilization or pasteurization [Re: Psilosopherr]
#21863761 - 06/27/15 10:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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here is a quote from a tek I highly recommend you read.
"If the temp goes over 170F for more than ten or fifteen minutes, you will start to partially sterilize your substrate. It'd be best to toss it and try again. Since we spawn to bulk in open air, a partially sterilized substrate is often as shitty as an unpasteurized substrate."
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17246844#17246844
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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Loc: Canada
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Re: Straw. Sterilization or pasteurization [Re: Psilosopherr]
#21863767 - 06/27/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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140-160 is preffered. Most molds are killed at a temp of 130f sustained for 30 min. Over 160f is unnecessary and leads to risk of partial sterilization.
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holycow
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Re: Straw. Sterilization or pasteurization [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21863800 - 06/27/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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i see. thanks for your reply pastywhyte!
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blindingleaf
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Re: Straw. Sterilization or pasteurization [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21864129 - 06/27/15 12:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Invitro its better to mix the straw with your grain or flour source and use liquids to inoculate. This of course is dependent on your ability to create a clean LC or LI. This was nothing but straw and whole wheat flour.


woa dude, i don't think i saw those before, jesus!
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Straw. Sterilization or pasteurization [Re: blindingleaf]
#21864152 - 06/27/15 12:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks leaf! I gonna start with em again in a few months. Gonna rock some invitro lawn clipping experiments. Those were 200 & 175% BE first flush. Cost about a nickel in materials
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Dr. Bluethumb
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Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Straw. Sterilization or pasteurization [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21865510 - 06/27/15 06:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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So I'm gonna try what pastywhyte suggested. Fruit invitro with a straw coir millet mix. Straw is soooooooo much cheaper to use than coir. And I'm gonna try another hot bath pasteurization to see if maybe my method was just off. Like i said, i have pasteurized poo with little issue and even tryed the lime bath method. But, i know straw is very nute rich and is prime food for many nasties.
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azur
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Re: Straw. Sterilization or pasteurization [Re: Dr. Bluethumb]
#21865596 - 06/27/15 07:00 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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