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HerbalJunkie
Psycho


Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 305
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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COIR doesn't work for me... Why?
#21862862 - 06/27/15 06:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hey there folks of the shroomery.
So, as the title says, Coir is not working for me.
Now I'm sure I'm doing something wrong here, people have been successful grows with it.
I got the ''Nature's Footprint Coco Coir''
Is my coir too acidic? I've added gypsum and verm to it but still no success.
I am not even getting contamination. The problem seems to be in the Mycelium not digesting the coir well enough. It doesn't colonize it to a bright white, the trays would have a brown tint all over from the coir showing and it's soft, far from a solid brick of mycelium.
I used BRF cakes to spawn. They would be 100% clean from contamination, including bacteria.
Oh last thing, I use the bucket tek to pasteurize my coir. I know it's not proper pasteurization but it works with most who use it.
Could it be the bucket tek? Maybe my kind of coir needs proper pasteurization. Can I just load up some coir in jars and boil it for a certain amount of time? Does it even make a difference in the way mycelium eats the coir?
The results with coir for me aren't better than cakes.
Any advice would be appreciated
Cheers!
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: HerbalJunkie]
#21862876 - 06/27/15 07:08 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I had similar problems with coir. I used a different batch and the mycelium wouldn't colonize it completely. Was rather strange. Got two trays colonizing as we speak, different brand and it seems to work as it should
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forrest



Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 1,011
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: HerbalJunkie]
#21862877 - 06/27/15 07:08 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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so it does colonise, and you get fruits from it, but the yeields aren't as high as you think they can be?
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CliftonGK1
Sasquatch



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 327
Loc: A place
Last seen: 4 hours, 36 minutes
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: forrest]
#21863104 - 06/27/15 08:27 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I use the same brand; Nature's Footprint, Worm Factory 650g 5-pack, and I've had nothing but good harvests with it. No gypsum, just Damion's bucket tek with coir and verm. I spawn from grains, not crumbled BRF cakes, but I can't see that being a huge difference. (Maybe it is? TCs want to weigh in on that?)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: CliftonGK1]
#21863480 - 06/27/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Coir needs to be cooked to digest. IME sterilized coir is easier for myc to digest than pasteurized. If the myc is not leaping off to colonize the coir I think its more likely that your spawn (in this case cakes) may be contamed. Bacteria inhibits recovery.
I doubt the coir is too acidic. Coir is a little on the acidic side anyway but myc prefer a slightly acidic sub so its never a problem.
Weaker colonization is also sometimes genetic. If its weakly colonized it can still fruit.
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21863574 - 06/27/15 10:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: If the myc is not leaping off to colonize the coir I think its more likely that your spawn (in this case cakes) may be contamed. Bacteria inhibits recovery.

Possible that the coir's moisture content is off too. Op also does not mention what temps are being sustained for spawn run. Temps too high, and/or too low will slow colonization, as well. Of coarse, as you've already mentioned, genetics.
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 6,107
Loc: Galactic sector ZZ9 Plura...
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: hamloaf]
#21864347 - 06/27/15 01:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: HamHead]
#21864385 - 06/27/15 01:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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What Pasty said. I've done a full PC run (a bit over kill) with coir before and they ate it up just fine.
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Grey
⇜ ✯ ⇝



Registered: 11/06/14
Posts: 6,223
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: StygianKnight]
#21864392 - 06/27/15 01:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I PC my coir like pasty. It works really well.
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aris
Feline Bovine

Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 715
Loc: dl
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21864440 - 06/27/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I drill a few holes in the coir bricks before bucket tek and dump out the ultra fine fine dust. The inside and out of the lid, brim and interior of bucket gets wiped with alcohol. After adding the boiling water i put the bucket in a cement mixer with the lid still on it. Then wait.... it takes a long time for that stuff to cool.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: aris]
#21864538 - 06/27/15 02:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Are you even considering your cakes being at fault? 9/10 times contaminations in bulk are from bad spawn. If you don't do agar, get into it. You should work with a clean inoculant. I think everyone agrees every project should get started and tested on agar.
I saw my contamination rates plummet when I got into agar. Also I'm sure you check for it, but you didn't specify what you consider field capacity. Every handful should get squeezed to field capacity before going into the tub. At least that's my opinion.
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ShroominMe
Stranger

Registered: 05/03/15
Posts: 525
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: aris]
#21866029 - 06/27/15 08:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I thought coir was foolproof
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: hamloaf]
#21866138 - 06/27/15 08:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroominMe said: I thought coir was foolproof 
Quote:
hamloaf said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: If the myc is not leaping off to colonize the coir I think its more likely that your spawn (in this case cakes) may be contamed. Bacteria inhibits recovery.

Possible that the coir's moisture content is off too. Op also does not mention what temps are being sustained for spawn run. Temps too high, and/or too low will slow colonization, as well. Of coarse, as you've already mentioned, genetics.
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HerbalJunkie
Psycho


Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 305
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21867151 - 06/28/15 03:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks for the replies guys!
My moisture content is usually field capacity IF NOT a tiny bit on the dry side, I don't like too wet, I always found mycelium to digest something fluffy rather than something heavy and wet.
I'm gonna give sterilization a shot. Would steam sterilization be sufficient? How long should I sterilize for, don't want to be overkill.
Cheers!
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: HerbalJunkie]
#21867168 - 06/28/15 03:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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if your really having a problem...
try lycing the coir first.
pastywhyte is right cooking breaks down the cells.
if it is really stubborn then lyce first.
dampen the block and freeze then defrost and re-freeze several times.
this will break down the bonds of the cells.
when you pasturize it will break down even more.
now the myc will colonise and get nutes alot easier!!
it works with any coir too, to speed up the colonisation. 
its an old trick we used to use when coir was first used as a sub. it was believed that coir had so little nutrients that to get the best performance you needed to lyce it first to be of use.
now over the years we realized you dont even need to do this, but it dose make things more available if you do choose to! (most people will keep these little secrets close to their chest and not share them lol), i do it as routine with coir as it hasnt been field aged or passed an acidic gut like hpoo and brings it in the same league as hpoo. imo
lycing artificially ages and degrades the coir.
the lycing helps pre break down the coir and then the heat works on it further leaving it a whole world easier for the myc to digest the sub speeding up colonisation and increasing efficiency and making a product truly comparable with hpoo! a handful of insect frass too and its basically identical.
Edited by mustangbob3 (06/28/15 04:14 AM)
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: mustangbob3]
#21867172 - 06/28/15 03:48 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've got two test trays Coir verm spent coffee grounds and gypsum. Microwave it for 10minutes with clingfilm on top then let it cool.
1:2 ratio colonized in 4 days
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: Aero]
#21867183 - 06/28/15 03:59 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: I've got two test trays Coir verm spent coffee grounds and gypsum. Microwave it for 10minutes with clingfilm on top then let it cool.
1:2 ratio colonized in 4 days
would you concider trying insect frass as an additive?
it will do the same as coffee( speed colonisation) and add lots of extras like amino acids, vits , minerals, chitin and a balance of nitrogen, phos and potash.( might get used minimally to produce actives)
myc naturally gets insect frass in nature. it dont contam as easy as coffee.( need PC before use tho to kill bacteria present) has a great spectrum easy to digest nutrients.
i have used for a while with good results. not used isolates so cant really say on results like potency ect but colonisation time seems improved and fruit health(looks) is improved.
i would love to see what results others get! and see some tests with isolates
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Edited by mustangbob3 (06/28/15 04:03 AM)
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: mustangbob3]
#21867194 - 06/28/15 04:07 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'll post pictures once its fruiting. Will see
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: COIR doesn't work for me... Why? [Re: Aero]
#21867196 - 06/28/15 04:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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BTW I Dont recommend this tek to anyone. Its just me being lazy.. I nuke the coffee grounds prior to adding it to the mix. 3-4 minutes till its bone dry
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