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Invisible3iRiS9
@psilocybeing
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Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 512
Loc: Southwest Florida
Preservation by canning. * 1
    #21862634 - 06/27/15 04:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Ok, this is a little ridiculous, but the idea popped onto my head and it seems like it would be awesome if it worked.

What if you made "shroom tea" by pressure canning active mushrooms in water? Mushroom bits in the water would release active alkaloids as it boils, and when your ready to dose you could fasten a coffee filter or strainer under the screw cap to pour out the liquid. I'm sure it would work depending on how hot the canner really gets (if its below the melting point for psilocybin), but that would be awesome if it preserved it for long term storage. It would create a vaccume seal, so there's no oxidation, but maybe the water could cause the psilocybin/psilocin to break down. Does anyone have some science to throw at this? I know tea can remain active for longer than a month in a refrigerator, so I'm guessing it doesn't degrade that quickly in water. 

I first imagined how cool it would be to have single dose jars of tea on hand at any time, and I happen to be canning veggies right now, so the lightbulb just lit up. The scene from the movie shrooms with the inbred brothers' shack filled with jars and jars of "mushies" also comes to mind.

Crazy idea, just thought I'd share.


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InvisibleJvF
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Registered: 02/13/14
Posts: 2,662
Loc: Chicago Flag
Re: Preservation by canning. [Re: 3iRiS9]
    #21862700 - 06/27/15 05:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I literally thought of this yesterday, except for cactus tea.

I think it might get too hot for mushie alkalouds


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Offlinethebitterbuffalo26
Fartyr
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Registered: 04/18/15
Posts: 555
Loc: Texas Flag
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Re: Preservation by canning. [Re: JvF]
    #21862791 - 06/27/15 06:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

With canning it's super important to do it right or else you could end up with food poisoning like botulism. All that heat would have to have a negative effect on the alkaloids, but I like the idea and it might work a bit.


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InvisibleSteveRogers
gandy dancer
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Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 3,450
Re: Preservation by canning. [Re: thebitterbuffalo26]
    #21862825 - 06/27/15 06:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Cracker dry. Vacuum sealed in plastic. Placed in airtight glass container. Placed in deep freeze. Grind and make your tea when you are ready to trip. There is a lot of debate around here about alkaloid heat tolerance and potency loss via oxidation ect....but why mess with heat and pressures and water when you just don't have to? The method above will keep them for a very long time.

For science I'll do a 1/4 pint by canning the next time I fire up the PC for some Rye. See how the potency comes out.

If someone has the resources, freeze drying may be a better option than canning or drying....
http://www.survivopedia.com/food-storage-freeze-dried-versus-dehydrated/
I do not have the proper equipment to freeze dry, but am looking into it for ultra long term storage. If someone can try it please report your findings.


Edited by SteveRogers (06/27/15 06:51 AM)


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
Re: Preservation by canning. [Re: 3iRiS9] * 1
    #21862905 - 06/27/15 07:19 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It can be done and there's a full write up in my journal. Make sure you bring the acid down just like you would with normal canning. And use a small amount of (vit~c)ascorbic for an anti oxidant. Top temps on just the filtered liquid extract were 180. With water bath canning I reached a little under boiling.

From my research I determined that the actual extract is actually a purified version of psilocin. Completely converted by the addition of heat and acid. Potency was tested at 7 days and 1 month, both full blown experiences. IMO the tea most likely keeps its potency for much much longer being stored in sealed canning jar like this.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
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Re: Preservation by canning. [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #21862952 - 06/27/15 07:40 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Cronicr out cubes In a jar and pressure cooked them and they were fine afterwards 250F doesn't do shit to the actives. Just make tea and then put it in cans and if you wish freeze it no need to over think something so simply stupid.


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
Re: Preservation by canning. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21863010 - 06/27/15 07:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah that would be the proper canning technique for mushrooms. Id add some kind of lemon juice or pickling powder if I wanted to store them for a long period of time.

I think the reason the subject is a little elusive is because people have lost potency from not using a antioxidant of some kind with the mix. ....betting this is the reason people resort to freezing tea.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Preservation by canning. [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #21863219 - 06/27/15 08:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

What's doing the oxidation? They would have already oxidized in the boiling hot water but I'm no chemist


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
Re: Preservation by canning. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21863325 - 06/27/15 09:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Open air or light could possibly be doing it, or chlorine in the water. Anti-oxidants are used quite frequently in mushroom canning to preserve the appearance of the mushroom. And in this case can be used to preserve the alkaloids as well.


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Invisiblemustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist
I'm a teapot


Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
Re: Preservation by canning. [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #21863379 - 06/27/15 09:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

heat also raises the speed of oxidation so the ascorbic will help limit extra losses from this.

for every degree raised in temperature it will incrementally increase the speed and thus amount of oxidation per X amount of time that will occur.

we have the same rules for drying mushrooms.
air drying will take more time allowing more contact with air and resulting in x amount of oxidation.

we raise the temps from room temp we speed up duration but also speed up the rate of oxidation.

i would love to plot the curves on a graph to see where they meet!!
to find what at what temp would be best.

as more heat equals less time but quicker/higher rate of oxidation
and less heat equals more time but slower/ lower rate of oxidation.

there is a trade off point.

dehydrators work fine but i would love to see the maths behind it.

thats another project to my list i guess lol :smile:

EDIT: also water itself will oxidize the actives at a certain rate and faster at higher temps.
rember water is h2o it has oxgygen and will oxidise the actives.
only freezing will slow this

i hate seeing people say heat at such and such heat cant hurt or affect actives!!

you are wrong

the heat we use to dry mushrooms be that dehydrator, room temps or even oven will not destroy actives directly as the heat is below the melting point but it will increase the speed of oxidation that is occuring.

so the heat or any heat will contribute towards a loss in potency.

no way around it.

heat controls speed of oxidation

but we could control the rate of oxidation with ascorbic acid mitigating the effects of raised temps.


its only small so not worth being worried about tbh

now freeze drying is the way to go if you really are worried about small amounts being lost.


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Edited by mustangbob3 (06/27/15 10:22 AM)


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
Re: Preservation by canning. [Re: mustangbob3]
    #21863487 - 06/27/15 09:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/19122936_An_aqueous-organic_extraction_method_for_the_isolation_and_identification_of_psilocin_from_hallucinogenic_mushrooms

Pretty neat link on the subject... the research was funded by the feds but it sheds light on the subject.

All of his findings could be followed up by a Ehrlich's reagent test.


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Invisiblemustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist
I'm a teapot


Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
Re: Preservation by canning. [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #21863583 - 06/27/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

thanks will have a good read of it later :thumbup:


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
Re: Preservation by canning. [Re: mustangbob3]
    #21863669 - 06/27/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:sunny::thumbup:


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
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Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Preservation by canning. [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #21864296 - 06/27/15 01:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I was under the impression only cellular components that can phosphorelate would oxidze them hence why we dry with heat to stop the break down processes carried out by living tissue that is dying


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 5,212
Re: Preservation by canning. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21864615 - 06/27/15 02:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Its a tricky subject and closely parallels food science and preservation. In a normal environment the mushroom would still be mostly water. The reaction or oxidative stress/phosphorylation would need water to react in order to complete the conversion adp>>atp. Intruding bacteria and mold would also need water to operate.

Removing water= removing the highway to microbial contamination and destruction of alkaloids, vitamins and minerals from being converted to energy.

conclusion its just another way to preserve. Acids, preservatives, sugar or alcohol are used commercially in food process to eliminate this process. Most likely why we have such high sugar content in everything. Its sweet and its a preservative.

This is an example here of preservation with gelatin and sugar that I played around with.

1st example 4 grams of sugar to every 14 ml

7 days later trich in full effect...even sporulated all over the place when I dumped it.


and then 10 grams of sugar to 14 ml after 7 days

notice a difference
the sugar is the preservative

Anti oxidants are used by plants and people for preservation. Vit c is truly one to be watched in food and vitamin preservation. It also has a slow but effective decarboxylation process that can turn tryptophan into tryptamine under the right conditions. Also can turn a carboxylic acid into its original hydro carbon. Hence why they don't combine Sodium benzoate and vit c in food processing, because it will convert to benzene a known carcinogen.


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