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InvisibleGottaloveacid
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The receptor that causes drug hallucinations * 1
    #21861086 - 06/26/15 06:00 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I just learned about this receptor today. And before anyone starts thinking it, no, I don't mean visuals from psychedelics. I am talking about REAL hallucinations, not pseudo-hallucinations like acid visuals.

It is called the sigma receptor, and all the drugs that cause hallucinations are known to interact with it. Meth, DMT, cocaine, DXM, PCP etc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma_receptor#The_.CF.83_receptor

DMT in particular is known to interact with this receptor a LOT, which very well might explain why people hallucinate insane things while consuming DMT.

This receptor can also explain what causes mania, as it's agonization has been shown to cause blissful states (caused by mental instability, ie mania)

I just thought I would like to share this, and perhaps one day scientists create a medicine that antagonizes this receptor to help cure hallucinations from schizophrenia. Speaking of which, people with schizo have higher levels of DMT (which is an endogenous ligand) and since it interacts so much with this receptor, an antagonist could be a potential CURE for schizophrenia.


Just some food for thought


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InvisibleMalcolm_Xtasy
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Re: The receptor that causes drug hallucinations [Re: Gottaloveacid] * 1
    #21861115 - 06/26/15 06:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I think you're going a little to far. Yes the receptor is a part of the interaction but so is 5-HT, Dopamine, and myriad of other neurotransmitters. To say its the cause of hallucinations is definitely jumping the gun.

Source:

Neuroscience major


--------------------
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I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner.
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OfflineGorlax
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Re: The receptor that causes drug hallucinations [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
    #21861134 - 06/26/15 06:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

sigma usually just denotes a subunit of a major receptor. Like some opiates can hit the mu-receptor kappa receptor..


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InvisibleGottaloveacid
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Re: The receptor that causes drug hallucinations [Re: Gorlax]
    #21861142 - 06/26/15 06:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Both of the sigma receptors, σ1 and σ2 seem to play a role in these hallucinations it appears.

The sigma-1 receptor seems to play more of a role in endogenous DMT effects, whereas sigma-2 seems to play more of a role of dissasociative hallucinations


Do note though that sigma receptors aren't actually real opiod receptors, although it is easy to see why someone would think that. Drugs that activate sigma-1 and sigma-2 have nothing to do with opiods or any of their effects


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:mushroom2::mushroom2: The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends!:mushroom2::mushroom2:

wubba lubba dub dubstep :gimmebass:


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InvisibleGottaloveacid
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Re: The receptor that causes drug hallucinations [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
    #21861150 - 06/26/15 06:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Malcolm_Xtasy said:
I think you're going a little to far. Yes the receptor is a part of the interaction but so is 5-HT, Dopamine, and myriad of other neurotransmitters. To say its the cause of hallucinations is definitely jumping the gun.

Source:

Neuroscience major





While I will agree, it definitely seems to me that this receptor plays a much larger role in mental illness by itself than say serotonin or dopamine alone (besides maybe depression, thought antidepressants that increase serotonin levels, whether ssri or maoi, have been shown to only be effective in a smaller amount of people than you would think, which suggests depression isn't all about low serotonin levels for instance)


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:mushroom2::mushroom2: The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends!:mushroom2::mushroom2:

wubba lubba dub dubstep :gimmebass:


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: The receptor that causes drug hallucinations [Re: Gottaloveacid]
    #21861155 - 06/26/15 06:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

There already are selective sigma antagonists. They're not widely used, I suspect because they don't help people with schizophrenia much. Schizophrenia is a complex disease that isn't clearly caused by any one receptor or another. It also has many different symptoms that present differently in different people.

The most photorealistic hallucinations are caused by ACH antagonists (classical deliriants). Yet, treatment with ACH agonists in schizophrenics (nicotine) only results in minor improvement in symptoms despite the incredible strength of ACH agonists like nicotine.

Most modern antipsychotic drugs are dopamine and serotonin antagonists. They generally target tons of dopamine and serotonin receptors, yet schizophrenics report little to no improvement of symptoms (despite the fact that 5HT2A and D2 are both known to cause hallucinations under the right circumstances).

So what receptors does that leave us with? Opiate receptors, but opiate antagonists like naloxone appear to have no effect on consciousness. Same with cannabinoid antagonists.

In short, all the receptors that we know cause hallucinations show little or no improvement when treated with antagonists in schizophrenics. Schizophrenia is a complex disease.


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Offlineteamkiller
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Re: The receptor that causes drug hallucinations [Re: Gottaloveacid]
    #21861164 - 06/26/15 06:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I don't know what you mean by "real hallucinations"

Totally just judging it experientially, I feel like it gives u that crazy feeling, and a warped self perspective. Actually I don't think I can describe it at all, but they say with DXM and ketamine, you essentially get no sigma receptor binding until you hit a certain dose.  I think that "sigma cascade" i think they call it is responsible for the remarkably different character of those drugs at different dosages.

I'm rambling...  what i'm trying to say is when i steadily dose either of those two drugs, there comes a profound moment when all of a sudden the feeling of the drug changes 180 degrees, i always figured that was sigma doing thangs and it feels good man, all crazy like. 

Nothing to do with hallucinations though.


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InvisibleGottaloveacid
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Re: The receptor that causes drug hallucinations [Re: teamkiller]
    #21861175 - 06/26/15 06:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
There already are selective sigma antagonists. They're not widely used, I suspect because they don't help people with schizophrenia much. Schizophrenia is a complex disease that isn't clearly caused by any one receptor or another. It also has many different symptoms that present differently in different people.

The most photorealistic hallucinations are caused by ACH antagonists (classical deliriants). Yet, treatment with ACH agonists in schizophrenics (nicotine) only results in minor improvement in symptoms despite the incredible strength of ACH agonists like nicotine.

Most modern antipsychotic drugs are dopamine and serotonin antagonists. They generally target tons of dopamine and serotonin receptors, yet schizophrenics report little to no improvement of symptoms (despite the fact that 5HT2A and D2 are both known to cause hallucinations under the right circumstances).

So what receptors does that leave us with? Opiate receptors, but opiate antagonists like naloxone appear to have no effect on consciousness. Same with cannabinoid antagonists.

In short, all the receptors that we know cause hallucinations show little or no improvement when treated with antagonists in schizophrenics. Schizophrenia is a complex disease.




Nalaxone doesn't antagonize sigma receptors. Again, it isn't really an opiod receptor, as it has NO similarities with other opiod receptors.

But yeah, current modern antipsychotics aren't really effective, same with anti depressants. That leads me to believe that serotonin (same goes for dopamine) plays a smaller role in these diseases than one would think.


I am just suggesting that the sigma receptor plays a much larger role in hallucinations/mental illness than the currently widely accepted serotonin and dopamine understandings.
Quote:

teamkiller said:
I don't know what you mean by "real hallucinations"

Totally just judging it experientially, I feel like it gives u that crazy feeling, and a warped self perspective. Actually I don't think I can describe it at all, but they say with DXM and ketamine, you essentially get no sigma receptor binding until you hit a certain dose.  I think that "sigma cascade" i think they call it is responsible for the remarkably different character of those drugs at different dosages.

I'm rambling...  what i'm trying to say is when i steadily dose either of those two drugs, there comes a profound moment when all of a sudden the feeling of the drug changes 180 degrees, i always figured that was sigma doing thangs and it feels good man, all crazy like. 

Nothing to do with hallucinations though.





By real hallucinations, I mean seeing things that aren't there, yet they seem real. Search up pseudo-hallucination, and compare it to hallucination. For example, a hallucination would be hearing voices or seeing bugs on the walls. Also thinking that you are being controlled, etc etc


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:mushroom2::mushroom2: The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends!:mushroom2::mushroom2:

wubba lubba dub dubstep :gimmebass:


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InvisibleGottaloveacid
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Re: The receptor that causes drug hallucinations [Re: nooneman]
    #21861191 - 06/26/15 06:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Forgot to add-

The reason sigma antagonists aren't widely used is because there is hardly any research done on it, and doctors don't like prescribing things that haven't been heavily researched.


--------------------
   
:mushroom2::mushroom2: The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends!:mushroom2::mushroom2:

wubba lubba dub dubstep :gimmebass:


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Offlineteamkiller
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Re: The receptor that causes drug hallucinations [Re: Gottaloveacid]
    #21861208 - 06/26/15 06:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

yeah, and i was saying as a ketamine and dxm user i don't think sigma agonists has anything to do with hallucinations.


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InvisibleMalcolm_Xtasy
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Re: The receptor that causes drug hallucinations [Re: teamkiller]
    #21861381 - 06/26/15 07:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Ill respond to some of these points later on. Im drunk as shit right now :lol:


--------------------
I'm stupid, Enlil is smart.
I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful.
I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner.
Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.


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