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OfflineJohnDoeKENTUCKY
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Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars
    #21857855 - 06/25/15 11:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Hi, I am using rye seed as a bulk substrate and I have already bought 2 golden t syringes and basically my question is when I am ready to inoculate more rye berry jars do I have to buy more syringes or can I just do a G2G transfer from an old inoculated jar I had from say 2 months back that I put in the fridge?

I am aware that I can make a spore print but I would like to make it simple as possible and stick to G2G transfers for my bulk substrate grows.

Thanks and sorry if this question sounds stupid or repetitive I haven't found any threads exactly like this on the forum.


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OfflineSizlChest
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: JohnDoeKENTUCKY]
    #21857911 - 06/25/15 11:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:takingnotes:


--------------------
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: SizlChest]
    #21857922 - 06/25/15 11:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Uhh..just get into agar:shrug:

Keep a mini fridge full of dozens of cultures, just grab one that you'd like to use at that time, knock up a jar, and expand:shrug:


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: SizlChest]
    #21857938 - 06/25/15 11:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Technically if the jar is clean, then you can easily g2g it. However ime, clean grain jars are hard to come by. Perfectly fine for bulk, but I'd never use a jar with even a hint of bacteria for g2g. Basically a few pics of the jar would determine if it's good for g2g. Otherwise I'd just go back to spore.

If you're open to trying agar, you can take a few grains and put it on agar before spawning to bulk. Also you should think about putting your syringes onto agar too.


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Edited by Mad Season (06/25/15 11:29 PM)


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OfflineGreen Bastard
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: JohnDoeKENTUCKY]
    #21857999 - 06/25/15 11:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

JohnDoeKENTUCKY said:
Hi, I am using rye seed as a bulk substrate....




Hope you're not actually planning to use rye as your bulk sub.
Probably just a terminology thing, eh?


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: Green Bastard]
    #21858527 - 06/26/15 04:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

As stated, if the jar is clean, you can definitely G2G with it.

I would advise you to make a small jar of grain to G2G into.  Observe it for contamination, then use that jar to G2G a meaningful quantity.  You could also make Liquid Culture and drop a good looking single colonized grain in AFAIK, or a drop from the spore syringe.  Further liquid cultures could be inoculated with the original.  Again I'd advise you to test it on a small quantity of grain to make sure it is what you think it is.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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OfflineJohnDoeKENTUCKY
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #21859134 - 06/26/15 09:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I understand what you are saying but what I don't understand is the point in using LC's whatsoever. They seem pretty useless if you can preserve a colonized jar are rye in the refrigerator, I guess because less contams


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OfflineJohnDoeKENTUCKY
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: Green Bastard]
    #21859142 - 06/26/15 09:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Green Bastard said:
Quote:

JohnDoeKENTUCKY said:
Hi, I am using rye seed as a bulk substrate....




Hope you're not actually planning to use rye as your bulk sub.
Probably just a terminology thing, eh?




I am using rye berries only for my bulk substrate is this bad? I have already pasteurized much coir and verm for casing..  Should I use rye as spawn and spawn it in to hpoo or straw? I feel that using rye alone (being cased) would be easiest and less contaminate prone then spawning in to hpoo.
-john


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InvisibleSteveRogers
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: JohnDoeKENTUCKY]
    #21859167 - 06/26/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

JohnDoeKENTUCKY said:
Quote:

Green Bastard said:
Quote:

JohnDoeKENTUCKY said:
Hi, I am using rye seed as a bulk substrate....




Hope you're not actually planning to use rye as your bulk sub.
Probably just a terminology thing, eh?




I am using rye berries only for my bulk substrate is this bad? I have already pasteurized much coir and verm for casing..  Should I use rye as spawn and spawn it in to hpoo or straw? I feel that using rye alone (being cased) would be easiest and less contaminate prone then spawning in to hpoo.
-john




Yes it's bad. Bulk substrate is more along the lines of straw/manure/coir. Do not pre pasteurize your bulk substrate. prepare it when you have CLEAN spawn ready to transfer.

Good luck to you


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Edited by SteveRogers (06/26/15 09:46 AM)


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: JohnDoeKENTUCKY]
    #21859175 - 06/26/15 09:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Coir and verm can and will work the same way as hpoo and straw. Although it can be used for casings, it is technically these days a bulk substrate. Basically you should spawn the rye into a tub of coir verm and gypsum (cvg)


--------------------
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OfflineJohnDoeKENTUCKY
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: Mad Season]
    #21859479 - 06/26/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So I should take the colonized grain and mix it with the coir/verm and mix it real good or case it with the coir and verm?
-john


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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: JohnDoeKENTUCKY]
    #21859487 - 06/26/15 10:59 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'd do option one if it were me. Maximize the yield as much as I can.


--------------------
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: Mad Season]
    #21859526 - 06/26/15 11:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

do both! :super:

even if you're gonna g2g from master in the fridge you're gonna have to start over at some point.
you cant g2g a jar forever or keep g2g'ing the same culture forever.

taking prints is easy, foil, cap, cover, bam!


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OfflineZorroro
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars *DELETED* [Re: Buck513]
    #21859563 - 06/26/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Post deleted by Zorroro

Reason for deletion: .



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InvisibleBuck513

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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: Zorroro]
    #21859566 - 06/26/15 11:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Months if kept in a clean ziploc bag.

Slants store for longer


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OfflineShamanic Scientist
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: JohnDoeKENTUCKY]
    #21859781 - 06/26/15 12:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I have kept colonized rye grain in the fridge for 2-3 months before, and subsequently sued it for g2g. It worked just fine. Might take a couple days or so before the mycelia "wake up" and you start to see growth on the new grain.


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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: Shamanic Scientist]
    #21859797 - 06/26/15 12:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Storing cultures is the way to go OP.

You can have clones of different varieties and just pick one to work with.

You could keep dozens of cultures, but have fun keeping dozens of jars that you're trying to expand lol.

Plus you shouldn't expand the same culture via g2g more than a few times


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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: Buck513]
    #21859831 - 06/26/15 12:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:whathesaid: they say max 3 g2g transfers, however you can do 20 transfers if you so desire on agar. They say g2gs are best for expanding your myc, I'd have to disagree. After 20 transfers you could easily multiply it up to thousands or tens of thousands of dishes (not realistic) and could inoculate tens of thousands to a few hundred thousand grain jars. I'd like to see you do that with g2g. After 3 transfers 1 jar would make 1000 grain jars.

It might take a little longer, but it's guaranteed clean inoculant.


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Edited by Mad Season (06/26/15 12:29 PM)


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: JohnDoeKENTUCKY]
    #21861094 - 06/26/15 06:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

JohnDoeKENTUCKY said:
I understand what you are saying but what I don't understand is the point in using LC's whatsoever. They seem pretty useless if you can preserve a colonized jar are rye in the refrigerator, I guess because less contams




As I see it, the point of LC is that you can quickly expand a master culture or small quantity of spore syringe into a useful amount of inoculant.  The other option for this is agar.

If you want to inoculate 6 jars with a tiny piece of clone tissue, or 1ml left in your spore syringe, it would take weeks if not well over a month to colonize and expand out into a sufficient amount of grain to inoculate all those jars.  It would be much faster with an LC. 

Also, if you had a master culture rye jar, instead of needing to use half a cup from it per jar, you could take a single grain, make LC, and noc 6 jars.

From what you've said it would make the most sense to make an LC with the last of your spore syringe if you have any left.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #21861114 - 06/26/15 06:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

you've never done either of those methods have ya? :lol:

there was just too much in there to try and correct or guide :tongue2:


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: spacechildo]
    #21861135 - 06/26/15 06:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Nope but the point is more rapid expansion yes?  It takes well over a month to expand a clone to an amount that could inoculate multiple quart jars with grain petris.  G2Ging with a master culture on grain will be quite slow unless you expend a considerable quantity of grain each time you use it, meaning you'll run out of master culture in short order.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #21861158 - 06/26/15 06:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Tbh I don't trust LC from spore syringe. I feel agar and LC go hand in hand. They're the best combination for every aspect. Inoculate LC with a clean wedge, draw in syringe and test its cleanliness on a few agar dishes. Then run TONS of grain jars from 1 lc. You can store it in the fridge. Make a massive amount of inoculant and agar dishes. Imo lc is the shit.


--------------------
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How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: Mad Season]
    #21861168 - 06/26/15 06:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

yeah its more a replacement for g2g than agar. both ways can give you way more spawn than most people have jars to do in a very short time.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: spacechildo]
    #21861176 - 06/26/15 06:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:whathesaid: everything you do should get started on agar. Even LC. At least if you want to do it right.


--------------------
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How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: Mad Season]
    #21861344 - 06/26/15 07:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The more volatile the medium, the more it makes sense to start from the cleanest source.

However for someone without agar, I think I would trust a vendor syringe that has proven itself to be clean or a nice colonized grain over a spore print that's passed through open air.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #21861377 - 06/26/15 07:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Grain is a way different story than LC. Bacteria and molds grow WAY better in LC. Even a small amount of contamination can fuck it all up. I shoot spore syringes on agar and can't believe the amount of bacteria or strange stuff I see. Albeit most are clean. It isn't uncommon to see some monstrosities.

As for agar go to the top where there's sponsors flashing in your face. It'll say please support our sponsors. Do a little shopping there. A quick search found a bottle of pre mixed agar for under 15$. Hint don't try the places with spores.

You can also buy agar online in powder form and buy your own malt. Lol. Where there's a will there's a way :smile:. I agree though you can just inoculate jars and get by with g2gs or something. However if you live in a bad environment like me you need agar. It was my saving grace and I'd have quit long ago in frustration without it.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


Edited by Mad Season (06/26/15 07:36 PM)


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: Mad Season]
    #21861414 - 06/26/15 07:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It's not quite worth spending for me yet (not to make this thread about me.)  I think I will try tearing some rhizo mycellium that are prickling up off the top of a grain petri with tweezers and dumping them into LC and see what happens, then test that LC on grain petris for purity.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #21861417 - 06/26/15 07:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

what's a grain petri?


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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: spacechildo]
    #21861421 - 06/26/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

grain water agar plate is what it sounds like. or hes putting a piece of grain on an agar plate.
g2a.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: spacechildo]
    #21861427 - 06/26/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Just 1/8th of a cup of grains in a half pint.  I've been able to get a lot of clean clones and clean up some contamination on them with inteligent transfers.  Pretty handy.  Got the idea from violet, but she doesn't use them as a ghetto agar (check for contams, clone, transfer,) only a microscale culture testgrow.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


Edited by Machiavelliavore (06/26/15 07:55 PM)


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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: eatyualive]
    #21861430 - 06/26/15 07:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

ok op, so i regularly store masters in the fridge of colonized grain jars for future use. ill take them out when ready and g2g. but, the grain jars do have a shelf life. if you see metabolite(yellow or liquid looking water pooling in the jar) or off colors when you take it out of the fridge. don't use it. you want healthy white mycelia.

ive had success numerous times using jars up to 1 year old. but this also is dependent on culture/genetics.

the most id suggest storing them in the fridge is 6 months.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: eatyualive]
    #21861437 - 06/26/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Do you perpetuate the same culture by expanding it every 6 months to get new mycellium to refridgerate?


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: eatyualive]
    #21861439 - 06/26/15 07:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

eatyualive said:
grain water agar plate is what it sounds like. or hes putting a piece of grain on an agar plate.
g2a.




he just said he didn't have money for agar... :confused:

ninja; oh OK, a half pint jar of grains. not a petri dish :super:


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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #21861450 - 06/26/15 08:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
Do you perpetuate the same culture by expanding it every 6 months to get new mycellium to refridgerate?



no, once that grain jar is used, i start again from master culture. from a plate/liquid culture ect.
only first transfer masters are stored in the fridge. never anything older than that.


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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: eatyualive]
    #21861533 - 06/26/15 08:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
Quote:

eatyualive said:
grain water agar plate is what it sounds like. or hes putting a piece of grain on an agar plate.
g2a.




he just said he didn't have money for agar... :confused:

ninja; oh OK, a half pint jar of grains. not a petri dish :super:





I call it a grain petri because that's what violet calls essentially the same thing.  Very thin, maybe 3 grains thick, so it's easy to see what's growing, and it doesn't require lots of time or a shake (which would make transfering away from contams very hard) to get completely colonized.

The issue I have with it is that I end up with 1/8 cup of grains as my master culture.  Usually I have to expand that to another grain petri, then G2G that into a quart of grains, then g2g that to more grains.  The whole process is rather lengthy, which is why I want to try making an LC from the master petri.

Quote:

eatyualive said:
Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
Do you perpetuate the same culture by expanding it every 6 months to get new mycellium to refridgerate?



no, once that grain jar is used, i start again from master culture. from a plate/liquid culture ect.
only first transfer masters are stored in the fridge. never anything older than that.



Do plates or LC's have greater longevity in the frige?  I was under the impression that they didn't, though I hadn't found a satisfactory search result or bothered to ask yet.


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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #21861537 - 06/26/15 08:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

ive stored a liquid culture syringe from 2007 of oysters in the fridge.

here is a thread of that same culture. since 2007 ive used about a total of 1cc of solution. blues and pearls both from 2007.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21744280/fpart/1/vc/1

here is a recent tub grow of the same pearl culture. although the fae was shit.



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Re: Can you save mycelium for future use in grain jars [Re: eatyualive]
    #21865469 - 06/27/15 06:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

you can dry them out too for long storage... agar is the surefire way, but there are others... I didn't have a flow hood and didn't trust SAB's enough with my masters so I devised this:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6590986/an/0/page/1

again, agar is your best bet, but maybe the above link will help in other ways.

faht


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