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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
sun child
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how one knows if one is enlightened
    #21857409 - 06/25/15 09:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

How do you know if you are enlightened?

When another says 'I am enlightened,'

You say, 'Yes-  Very much so!'

That is the basic way.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
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Offlinecircastes
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21857501 - 06/25/15 09:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:sun:


--------------------
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: circastes]
    #21857543 - 06/25/15 10:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

We made it :smile:


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
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OfflineKickleM
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21859074 - 06/26/15 09:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

If that helps you feel good :thumbup:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: Kickle]
    #21859166 - 06/26/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

'you're already enlightened' - Bankei


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21861706 - 06/26/15 09:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I am more enlightened than I was in the past. A paradox, I know, since enlightenment is not dependent on time. But, that does not mean that I am so aware that I don't do stupid things anymore. :lol: I cut too much wood out of a doorframe yesterday when I was repairing a door closing mechanism. I marked the wrong side of the mount. I do not know if a fully enlightened being is perfect in the sense that [s]he no longer makes mistakes from failure to see a complete action from beginning to end. For example, fully enlightened beings still eat and poop. If, through no fault of their own the t-paper is thinner than usual and their finger pokes through when they're wiping their a-hole, and they get poo on their finger, is that still a statement of perfection? Or have they made a mistake, or is the mistake a teaching about unpredictability in phenomena, or is there no such thing as a mistake, mistakes being just the preference of the egoic-mind?

:holyshit:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineEvilShaman
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: Kickle]
    #21861860 - 06/26/15 10:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
If that helps you feel good :thumbup:




I like how you said that Kickle.

What is enlightenment? I once thought I was enlightened to only find it was my ego wanting to be the "most awaken" the "most aware" "the awakened one"... when in fact we all have the ability to be enlightened just by observing what is really going on in the World.

Demonic Experience = Enlightenment?
Divine Experience = Enlightenment?

How far should one go and why? What is it we seek through these sacred substances? I for one am searching for the most purest form of ME... I see the most purest form of me when on Psychedelics, I can see what lives inside. Something very good, also something very bad. Enlightenment to me.. is removing all evil impurities from the body, accepting the vessel you are currently in and being enlightened to me is seeing the good in this evil world we live in, this reality is hella influenced by demonic entities. I will just leave it at that. I'm probably just one of them kooks who believes in Reptilians running the world.... LOL. :robawet::wouldyoulookatthat::trollmove::fuckyeahdance::mygoditsfullofstars::ancientaliens:


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:scream: :billseal: :hst:
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Edited by EvilShaman (06/26/15 10:15 PM)


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: EvilShaman] * 1
    #21862770 - 06/27/15 06:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Fact is, unless you can first accept the evil satanic occult child sacrificing pedophile elite for what they are, you will never be even remotely enlightened. 

Never.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: LunarEclipse] * 1
    #21863057 - 06/27/15 08:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I guess that depends on your view of enlightenment. In India, enlightened beings are called Dwijas, which means "twice-born". That's referring to the fact that they have been born once to their mothers, and then they have "died" through the destruction of the individual self, and have then been spiritually "reborn" in unity with God. It's fine to say that under the surface we are all God, and all enlightened etc and on some level maybe that is true. But how many people have actually completed this process and are consciously one with God, having lost all identification with themselves as an individual? I think it's fair to say that although many want to achieve this, that few actually have at the moment.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: Kickle]
    #21863097 - 06/27/15 08:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
If that helps you feel good :thumbup:




Comforting things are always nice to the ego ;-P

I am not enlightened but by saying my neighbor is I reach that state too because then I can know who is enlightened, so now others think I'm enlightened and I feel power by that

More power feels good, else I feel powerless


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #21863157 - 06/27/15 08:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Fact is, unless you can first accept the evil satanic occult child sacrificing pedophile elite for what they are, you will never be even remotely enlightened. 

Never.




Enlightenment might both be seeing your own shadow side, overcoming it (so it doesn't control you), and seeing other's shadow side

Society wouldn't be pleasant to look at to an enlightened person, rottenness everywhere, so it is amazing that so many wish to be enlightened

Every control system we got is usually rotten in some parts. People are convicted daily all over the world for crimes without victims, to death sentence (US and Indonesia).

People got convicted here 10 times in a row for child molesting, but then it was just a bad state official that had gone mad, all 10 cases were wrong. One of the dads hung himself in jail due to the false accusations. The children were permanently removed from their homes.

Cops kill people daily, young kids etc.

Maybe they should wish to know themselves instead and improve upon society, our culture, politics instead

The more you look at our culture the more rotten it becomes, it must be more pleasant not to look at it at times.. Don't watch tv


Tv instils fear in people, newspapers do too, fear , frustration, and it stays in your subconscious for a long while..
Maybe those running those tv networks and newspaper groups are part of that evil satanic cult / are not themselves

They sell sex,murder,rape daily and people feed off it


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21863279 - 06/27/15 09:09 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

there are only essentially two states of existence - yet this is only in appearance; in reality all is one.

2 quotes for you lovely beings:

1, is something beloved vivekananda said - not so much a quote,

why deny the feeling of liberation to others? 


in other words, no one who is aware of the light that is everything and everywhere would ever say to someone

that they would fail, fall, or they are already lost. . . or anything like that.


removing that entirely, and it's very possible to do, is a very good aid for spiritual life.



the other is - something ramana said - there is no impediment to meditation - the very thought that there is an impediment is the only impediment.


in other words, it is simplicity.






you are light, and free - forever, never bound.  nothing in the universe could ever bind you, for you are light.



this is true of all, equally.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21863294 - 06/27/15 09:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

True, but I didn't judge in what I wrote, I just wrote cold facts :-)

You may not like it, but it is still true


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21863299 - 06/27/15 09:17 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

no. . . not really.  it is a story told.


more or less, a fantasy.


in truth, the universe is one.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore] * 1
    #21863307 - 06/27/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

There was no denial there that the rapists, murders were one with me in what I wrote

But it seems you don't like dry facts, you only like honeymoon good news?

Enlightenment must also be knowing what man does of bad things, even if there is no good or bad
When we are alive there is good or bad to the heart, even if there is 'no good or bad from a top view'

Enlightenment is also the hurting in the heart from seeing the insanity of society, and accepting it - like the guy said


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21863313 - 06/27/15 09:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

your entire message


seems to be centered around the idea 'You're not enlightened'


my entire message is saying - you are light.


i'm very glad and grateful for the infinite light - that is you.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21863326 - 06/27/15 09:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Enlightenment is the natural state...

But there are no rules for an enlightened person, you are the one that seem to impose rules

Neither did I claim I was enlightened, or that others were not


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime] * 1
    #21863330 - 06/27/15 09:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

something ramana said - there is no impediment to meditation - the very thought that there is an impediment is the only impediment.




This may be true, and may help a practitioner a certain level, but how much does it help on a practical level? Who here can actually reach Samadhi (or a similar state) on demand, without the use of drugs? Who here has cleansed so much of their karma that they are free from the incarnation cycle?


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21863334 - 06/27/15 09:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

humanity does indeed need rules


destroying life on the scale we have been so doing is not acceptable.


this does not mean we lose anything - rather we gain everything.


living in harmony with nature is the most fulfilling life.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: PocketLady]
    #21863336 - 06/27/15 09:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

to understand there is no impediment is to reach the real life very soon.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21863351 - 06/27/15 09:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

once in a lifetime said:
humanity does indeed need rules


destroying life on the scale we have been so doing is not acceptable.


this does not mean we lose anything - rather we gain everything.


living in harmony with nature is the most fulfilling life.




True enlightenment accepts all, also destruction

Because everything 'just is'

Also, maybe you need to slow down slightly, I cannot follow up with 100 messages :-P
Write one big one instead maybe


Here's a question for you, it is not judging:
How can we be free, without controlling our minds fully?
Then, do psychedelics make us free ? - or is it the process we undergo after them that makes us more free?

Initially they make our thoughts weird, but after some months they may make more sense

So it looks like you are in the process of becoming free, yet not free


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: PocketLady]
    #21863355 - 06/27/15 09:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i am free, pocket lady.  i am free - cleansed - here to help. 


there was a zen teacher who said once,


'i could give you something, but what would help?'


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21863367 - 06/27/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

it looks like


you are free.


i am free.


this is what i am saying.  do you know me?  one life- one heart- one energy- one soul- one culture- one world- one universe.


the essential lesson is that once you are enlightened, you will no longer tell others 'you are bound.'


such only creates bondage.


thanks you.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime] * 1
    #21863373 - 06/27/15 09:34 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I've never heard that rule..

I work with people all the time, and tell them they're bound

Because only by realizing ones shadow side can one become free


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21863384 - 06/27/15 09:36 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

you are infinite light.


infinite light cannot be bound.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore] * 1
    #21863395 - 06/27/15 09:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I tell them they're free, but they are binding themselves by their own thoughts

And that acceptance of the problem helps , instead of fighting it


That is hard to accept apparently ;-) - and that is how I know it works, people get mad at me initially often, but that is self defence telling me it worked


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21863409 - 06/27/15 09:42 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

*

to make clear slightly, or help share - i edited my previous post, to make it a little more simple. . .


to continue on with the discussion and meta-discussion -


if you do or say something to make others angry, you are not doing right by them. . .


for there is no cause for anger, no matter what may come.  so if you are evoking it, you might try a different approach.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21863412 - 06/27/15 09:42 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

That doesn't resonate with me Once In A Lifetime. I can understand there is no impediment to meditation, but that alone will not take me there. Just as understanding that we are all connected to God will not give me true God-realisation. Refined practical skills are the bread and butter of the spiritual path IMHO, and that has to start with facing the darkness.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: PocketLady]
    #21863422 - 06/27/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Heh.

If one understands there is no impediment, one is already there.



Understanding there is no impediment is the definition of not having any impediment.


--------------------
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime] * 1
    #21863434 - 06/27/15 09:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, if a person can permanently realise there is no impediment. But, in order to do that, we have to face the darkness when it comes (and it does come!). It takes practice because the mind is full of impressions that have to be brought to the surface to be released, before this permanent realisation can come.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: PocketLady]
    #21863472 - 06/27/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You're the infinite light of the universe,

in all its power, beauty, glory and play -

you are the sunlight, dog and the kitten

all in perfect harmony, joy, and play;

the shadow has already passed, gone.

gone for good.


om gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha


--------------------
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: PocketLady]
    #21863516 - 06/27/15 10:02 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I would say that everyone is absolutely divine, however most do not realize this divinity. to me, enlightenment is about fully realizing and actualizing this inherent divinity. so in that sense, I think true enlightenment is quite rare at this time. however, enlightened or not, we are all always divine :smile: enlightenment doesn't really make us more divine, it just makes us fully aware of that divinity and through that awareness allows us to act as divinity, or something like that :smile:

it's a tricky situation because saying "i am not enlightened" can act as a bit of a negative affirmation and strengthen the apparent separation there. but at the same time i think it's good to acknowledge if there is still more to go in terms of realization and spiritual unfolding. as PocketLady said, how many people are there who can enter Samadhi at will, or even moreso how many abide in Sahaja Samadhi (permanent Samadhi while functioning in the world) (to use one system's terminology)

it certainly feels good to affirm our inherent freedom, our peace, our love etc and i think this is good. but imo true enlightenment is more rare and it's not something i have attained. that said, perhaps in the future it will become much more commonplace on earth :smile:


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: deff]
    #21863537 - 06/27/15 10:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Well said Deff :sun:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: deff]
    #21863556 - 06/27/15 10:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yup, we all get off the path once in a while, and psychedelics may cheat us into thinking we are there because they distort our thinking often

But when we get back we got even more to learn than before, because now we can see where we are lacking in incorporating the light into our own life and other's lives around us.

Enlightenment wouldn't only be pleasant I think

First comes all the fear and doubt to a surface, may take years to resolve

Psychedelics just jump past that, but when you get back you still have to process it and you are no further than when you went in usually

Because you still have you clear your mind and process all the old stuff that now comes to surface

There are lots of ways to get on track, and lots of ways to get off track

Even though it is effortless being oneself :-)


But enlightenment is more I believe, if you are 100% in contact with God at all times, I believe you would feel an enormeous responsibility that you can hardly ever fulfill

It will take years of work to learn to accept that you cannot cure the world, you'd be lucky to cure a few people around you, and then learn to accept that any change you make is a good change


We all get lazy once in a while, but that is not really natural, natural is to have excessive energy I remember :-P
Laziness is not a virtue, it is something we have to transcend, anything that makes us lazy is not good for us, usually brings us ignorance.

We will have to learn our whole life, and enlightenment usually seems to happen after multiple lifetimes , if ever fully


I believe you may "be reborn" in contact with god if you meditate enough, many hours each day like one said, but you will have to learn to live in balance still - even if it looks effortless

The universe will throw obstacles at you in your life, and make any contentness fade if just for a moment when things don't go your way. Even really optimistic people.

By our actions, by our pureness of thought and speak we can measure our progress to some extent, but noone gets there permanently it looks like


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21863584 - 06/27/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

they will not agree, and probably not like you for saying it.




Just because they don't agree and aren't happy about being told that, doesn't mean it's not true :shrug:. In order to escape the illusion, first one has to realise one is bound by it, surely?

Incidentally, I don't think someone who was enlightened would really care whether or not they were liked by someone.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21863587 - 06/27/15 10:19 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

it is perfect and infinite peace and health.  once you see that, you no longer try to prevent others from seeing it.


to say to anyone, 'you are bound,' is never an aid to the solution - trust me.  go to work and say to your co-workers, 'hey buddy, you're all bound by maya,'


they will not agree, and probably not like you for saying it.


anytime you smirk with the knowing look that says, 'oh you fool,' you're not there, not even any where close -




yet at the same time, it is there for you at any time.


:sun:




Just because they don't agree and aren't happy about being told that, doesn't mean it's not true :shrug:. In order to escape the illusion, first one has to realise one is bound by it, surely?

Incidentally, I don't think someone who was enlightened would really care whether or not they were liked by someone.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: PocketLady]
    #21863594 - 06/27/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The lessons life gives us aren't always pleasant, but they are always what we need.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: PocketLady]
    #21863600 - 06/27/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

live at the source.


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21863608 - 06/27/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

life is light - infinite and free,


there is no bondage or illusion - the thought of it is the only illusion..


there is infinite life, light and love available at any moment.


it is very easy.


--------------------
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21863620 - 06/27/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i posted those but then deleted them; it was better without them. 


that's okay though.


the point is - trying to teach others about peace before one has gotten there is not so good, and yet it all resolves. ..


that is why it is best to seek the source, attain it in full - and then share what one has found - the way home.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21863632 - 06/27/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

once in a lifetime said:
i posted those but then deleted them; it was better without them. 


that's okay though.


the point is - trying to teach others about peace before one has gotten there is not so good, and yet it all resolves. ..


that is why it is best to seek the source, attain it in full - and then share what one has found - the way home.




That is also what I do
I don't go out and teach before I feel content, I only teach when I can reach the source 'without thinking'


But as any teacher will learn, they are not there fully, they have to learn, so initially they will fail as a teacher, in order to move on and learn more

So any good teacher will start by teaching darkness often, because you learn from your mistakes


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21863636 - 06/27/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

if you have not seen the infinite light - you will not recognize it;

and if you have, you will never forget it.


fairly simple. . .



the point is - finding peace and light - attaining them in full, and then going to share them with the world; this is the way of peace.


--------------------
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21863639 - 06/27/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

no genuine teacher tells us others there is darkness in their hearts.


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21863640 - 06/27/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

none.


that is not helpful.


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21863651 - 06/27/15 10:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

once in a lifetime said:
none.


that is not helpful.




A teacher affected by drugs does...

A teacher affected by life crisis does...

A teacher who is ill himself does...

And I could go on


Noone is perfect, neither are you
You are from the source, but your actions fail


A spiritual teacher learns to teach usually, like any teacher. They might not redirect the full light initially, but maybe only partially.


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21863673 - 06/27/15 10:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lessismore said:
A teacher affected by drugs does...

A teacher affected by life crisis does...

A teacher who is ill himself does...

And I could go on


Noone is perfect, neither are you
You are from the source, but your actions fail





:sun:

thank you for being more clear.

have a wonderful day.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21863675 - 06/27/15 10:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

In my experience, many teach that the way to the light is by recognizing, accepting and releasing darkness. Just a few I have found right now. There are many others.

C.G. Jung
“There is no coming to consciousness without pain. People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own Soul. One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious.”

Eckhart Tolle
“There is only one perpetrator of evil on the planet: human unconsciousness. That realization is true forgiveness. With forgiveness, your victim identity dissolves, and your true power emerges--the power of Presence. Instead of blaming the darkness, you bring in the light.”

Many forms of yoga/meditation are based on digging down and stirring up the negative karma (darkness) within ourselves so that it may be released. In fact the word guru means "darkness dispeller".


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21863717 - 06/27/15 10:47 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I like Tolle, someone gave me the book The Power of Now :-)

Needless I didn't need to read it, I also don't read well, never have read a book yet, but the title said it all at the time

I have since seen a youtube vid or two with him/found him in other ways, every word he speaks is my own, was pretty overwhelming too

It's nice to know that there are people that actually care that much on the planet, especially the days when you may feel low due to awakening / other life trouble

I.e. you may feel really ill, but joy each day, so you can help nobody because you are really sick in bed, you  can share no joy with nobody

It's also funny that one can feel joy when laying in bed for xx months with pain, but I suppose anything is possible when finding the soul

Luckily I still had nature , and then someone gave me that book


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21863748 - 06/27/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah I like Tolle too. It really changed my perspective when I read The Power Of Now.  But I found it extremely hard to practice consistently without the addition of other teachings. Being present and allowing the darkest depths of your subconscious to surface requires an enormous strength of will.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: PocketLady]
    #21863784 - 06/27/15 11:02 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Well I know what makes me less able to be present:

drugs,pills,stress

and I'm very sensitive to noise as just about the only thing, but of course also life crisis stress is not pleasant and very hard to stay present in if it lasts for too long

Imagine having a 5-10 year long life crisis i.e., won't be pleasant... would make anybody angry almost, angry at anybody

Especially if you combine it with pain pills...


Lots of ways to fall in, and lots of ways to get back out again when time is
There are really no coincidences, we usually get ourselves in the mess and sometimes we have to learn

I.e. if we get an illness and need to take high amounts of pain pills

How could we accept that ever, while teaching others?

That's 2 impossibilities almost, doesn't go good together

But I have helped people my whole life to some extent and I feel that path is right, I just cannot get off pills, so I am not teaching much at this moment anymore


So many things can make us fail to be present, but I guess that's part of evolving - to realize that
Realize which ways help us be present, and that is cycling long, exercising, nature, meditating,fasting,houseplants,gardening,service to others etc.

Our actions are very important, one bad action is all it takes often to remove all presentness


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21863817 - 06/27/15 11:09 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah staying present can be pretty tough. Sounds like you have had a rough time of it recently. Sorry to hear that. Having been through some challenging times myself, I do truly think that all of the obstacles life throws at us are there to teach us something, and quite often it is to be present and exist in a state of non-attachment. If we succeed, the lesson goes away. If it's too much, the lesson will come around again. However, as you say, often the challenge of staying present is too difficult, which is where energy work and meditation comes in.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21863845 - 06/27/15 11:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Haha, nicely said, I've noticed that too, if it keeps reappearing we haven't learned the lesson yet!

If it disappears, the lesson is usually learned


I.e. people keep being angry at you, talking behind your back - and you want revenge, now they don't any longer

you felt you were right because these people wouldn't want you any good!


That's how our mind often controls us, it will convince us we are right, and "they" are wrong

A present mind doesn't need to be right


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21863895 - 06/27/15 11:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Present is forgiveness

for your soul is my soul

"turn the other chin" - no matter if you are right or not


only attack back what needs to be attacked


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21864877 - 06/27/15 04:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lessismore said:
Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Fact is, unless you can first accept the evil satanic occult child sacrificing pedophile elite for what they are, you will never be even remotely enlightened. 

Never.




Enlightenment might both be seeing your own shadow side, overcoming it (so it doesn't control you), and seeing other's shadow side

Tv instils fear in people, newspapers do too, fear , frustration, and it stays in your subconscious for a long while..
Maybe those running those tv networks and newspaper groups are part of that evil satanic cult / are not themselves

They sell sex,murder,rape daily and people feed off it




Much like GMO foods, people eat whatever they are fed.  It's no maybe about those running tv networks and newspaper groups being part of the cult.  The other part is an amazing infiltration and control by the CIA into the media.  "Executive producers" et al.

I like your thought on recognizing shadows in yourself and others.  I think that opens one up to actually see the light of love and beauty because without both sides how can one actually see it all?

To be enlightened is to be aware, and accepting of what is around oneself.  It's not an easy state to realize without feeling that fear you speak of.  In time, the fear changes from anger, to disgust, to acceptance and an even deeper sense of morbid curiosity.


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #21864917 - 06/27/15 04:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

there's no need for fear, LE;

it's a temporary thing - it fades.

It's possible to leave it so far behind it becomes literally nothing.


You and I have similar views about some things, but we go about them differently, I feel.  We each feel that humans have destroyed too much of earth;

and that change needs to occur. . to get more into this might be outside of the scope of this thread, however.

one thing is - at the very basic nature, at the very essence of all of this - all is light;

seeing that, having seen it and continuing to go further, there are unlimited levels to it.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21864931 - 06/27/15 04:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Our wording says if we live in fear, or if we just got a cloudy mind due to drugs or bad life situation or such

I don't really live in fear, but there are other troubles such as high amount of pain pills each day

Pills makes it harder to accept society, illness does too

Isolation due to illness can do it too at times..

If we cannot move around easily and go out with friends due to illness, the frustration stays in ourselves

Normally I would cycle long, go out with friends etc, but illness can prevent that


Then frustration sticks to you, from reading newspapers etc. , you got no outlet
Pills make it all worse etc.

But I still see the good in people once in a while :-) , some things just make one forget easily - pills do i.e., I've never eaten a pill in my life before I got sick, never been sick in my life either before that


Noone gets there fully, it's a constant learning process to remember acceptance


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #21864949 - 06/27/15 04:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

lessismore said:
Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Fact is, unless you can first accept the evil satanic occult child sacrificing pedophile elite for what they are, you will never be even remotely enlightened. 

Never.




Enlightenment might both be seeing your own shadow side, overcoming it (so it doesn't control you), and seeing other's shadow side

Tv instils fear in people, newspapers do too, fear , frustration, and it stays in your subconscious for a long while..
Maybe those running those tv networks and newspaper groups are part of that evil satanic cult / are not themselves

They sell sex,murder,rape daily and people feed off it




Much like GMO foods, people eat whatever they are fed.  It's no maybe about those running tv networks and newspaper groups being part of the cult.  The other part is an amazing infiltration and control by the CIA into the media.  "Executive producers" et al.

I like your thought on recognizing shadows in yourself and others.  I think that opens one up to actually see the light of love and beauty because without both sides how can one actually see it all?

To be enlightened is to be aware, and accepting of what is around oneself.  It's not an easy state to realize without feeling that fear you speak of.  In time, the fear changes from anger, to disgust, to acceptance and an even deeper sense of morbid curiosity.




Very good description that last part, awareness  and acceptance of what is


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21864958 - 06/27/15 04:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Acceptance and appreciation of the Now

that's usually how I feel my soul


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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
sun child
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21864979 - 06/27/15 04:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I understand that.  Always have felt health was the most important thing to figure out, from my early days..  What brings health, accept that, bring it to my heart; what does not, let that fade from me. .

By saying this I do not mean avoiding suffering in the world; however.  My teacher Hanh says, "Do not avoid suffering in the world," and shares some other beautiful words about it, I will look them up sometime. .

Your post also reminded me of this quote I found, also by Margaret:

Gathering strength, gaining breath, — naught can sever
Me from the Spirit of Life!

I found that to be very beautiful: very well expressed - also akin to what I discovered. . I have historically expressed it - there's nowhere to go except the source. . that is, the leaves of the tree of life never fall. . . they never get cut off - because -

where is there to go in the universe that is not within the source of the universe?

To me this was very profound almost 9 years ago, and still is today. :smile:

So it was nice to see it again here written by Margaret.

That is from here, by the way. (same link as in the quotes thread)

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Margaret_Fuller


I will pray you may be healed, for what it is worth.  I do spend as much time as possible in prayer, each day, to keep a continuous feeling of meditation and connection - yet I will spend a while today in prayer for healing, if you would like.


As I mention to desant, anytime you ask, I will.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21865024 - 06/27/15 04:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks, would really appreciate that

I believe in intention, and a purpose for anything too, so I think I have mostly evolved beyond that health part

But the pills still got me most of the time, they change my mood, even if I have no fear for my health anymore

Feel limited in what I can do, but not in how I can feel of joy fortunately in certain states of meditation - in nature i.e.

So the strength is probably going to come from inside as usual in life, I've always had great strength all my life, but that has faded a lot with the illness, almost none left at times, pills drain me completely

But any help would be appreciated, I know we are not limited to our bodies after all, but I would like to be healthy, still got a lot I want to do on this earth, 100s of things

peace


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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21865045 - 06/27/15 04:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You are welcome.  I will do so now, for 2 hours or so in nature.

I live on a small acreage. . . i noticed today, the grass seemed much taller. . . an interesting experience :smile:


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
sun child
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Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21865048 - 06/27/15 04:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

will share this link: https://books.google.com/books/about/Powers_Within.html?id=PdNiZFAcy0wC

one of the most profound books I have read, got it around 18 or 19; selections from Mirra Alfassa and Sri Aurobindo,

be back later.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime] * 2
    #21865683 - 06/27/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

once in a lifetime said:
there's no need for fear, LE;

it's a temporary thing - it fades.

It's possible to leave it so far behind it becomes literally nothing.


You and I have similar views about some things, but we go about them differently, I feel.  We each feel that humans have destroyed too much of earth;

and that change needs to occur. . to get more into this might be outside of the scope of this thread, however.

one thing is - at the very basic nature, at the very essence of all of this - all is light;

seeing that, having seen it and continuing to go further, there are unlimited levels to it.




Actually, not all is light.  In fact, to truly see the light with open eyes one must first conquer the darkness and the fear it can bring.

Knowledge can be power, but until one understands the basic construction of power, and how mishandled it is, one can not become enlightened.  To sit in the sun all day, you will feel warm and light and at the end of the day have horrible sunburn, especially now that the ozone layer is toast.

I can perhaps accept that you don't feel fear, once in, but I think you may be that way only with a serious denial issue.  All is not well, you know it, but try to put lipstick on the pig thinking you can make things attractive.

Face the darkness, at least make an effort to understand the dark side.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #21867640 - 06/28/15 08:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I took 1 hour in nature too on the grass when you mentioned nature

nothing happened, is that a good or bad sign?

my mind is afraid of becoming nothing ^^


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OfflinePope
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Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21885672 - 07/01/15 11:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

once in a lifetime said:
no genuine teacher tells us others there is darkness in their hearts.




i'm not a teacher but i think everyone has darkness, or atleast blackness, which you need to take in light, that function is needed to gather anything i think. & light to express things and gather info from. i don't think it's necessarily that darkness is bad or light is good, lots of light will burn things to death, and darkness prolly helped a lot of slaves and such escape way back when or whatnot lol, that sorta thing. a purely white and bright thing would be oppressive and all denying, pure dark thing would be greedy and all consuming, i think everyone has a mix of both


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Invisiblelessismore
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Posts: 6,268
Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: Pope]
    #21889182 - 07/02/15 05:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Purely white makes us self-righteous in everything we do

Purely black makes us ignorant


Religion can also have that effect of making people self-righteous, they believe in God therefore they know the only truth.

Truth doesn't separate people, that is probably what this guy said
Truth makes you understand the oneness of all things and beings


"It's not the white side, it's not the black side, it's the interface" - mckenna

Without dark we would not know the light
We can deny we have a dark side, but then we are usually "pure white" - self righteous, and that's not good

There's no denial when you understand truth and live the truth, you understand you are not perfect as a human being, and that is not needed either, but you strive to do your best
Your soul is from God/source, but your actions fail to represent the divine love at times


Without our dark side we would not be balanced as human beings


That doesn't mean we should act out our dark side though, just be aware. Darkness is more useful if we can transcend it than if we live it. Then we can see we are no better than anyone else, we have made severe mistakes in our lives in order to learn.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: how one knows if one is enlightened [Re: lessismore]
    #21889200 - 07/02/15 05:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Merge black and white, and you get unity, oneness, humbleness

That's balance, the teacher, the enlightened/person on the path


Humbleness is being able to see your shadowside and see others as yourself
Without humbleness it is very hard to achieve right action


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