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InvisibleTheLoopIs

Registered: 05/29/13
Posts: 330
Setup recommendations please!
    #21855529 - 06/25/15 02:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So my setup is kinda janky the pictures attached do most of the explaining.
I've had two cakes in FC for a week and a day but no pins yet! could I be doing something horribly wrong or do I just need more patience?

my growth parameters inside FC are:
temp; 72-74
92- humidity
I'm not misting or fanning really.

My heater is set up a foot away from the FC and then I got a humidifier right next to it. I know that sounds crazy but i figured since its pumping out a lot of air through the fans on top (that u  can see in pic) It actually dramatically increases airflow!

Any suggestions/tips/praising  is appreciate 
thank you in advance!



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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: TheLoopIs]
    #21855707 - 06/25/15 03:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You should really mist.  Also the heater is a waste if it's not colder than 65 in there and the humidifier is a waste because the only place humidity matters is within 1cm from the surface of the cakes.  That doesn't look like enough perlite or enough holes for that box.

That heater is WAY too close to those jars too.  Not sure where you live but it's almost July...


-bigger box
-more holes
-more perlite
-more mist
-less electronics


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InvisibleSteveRogers
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: Inocuole]
    #21855775 - 06/25/15 03:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

heed the wind fish's advice. Get that heater outta there, mist, and fan regularly.
Also, I personally would not colonize jars with a humidifier blowing on them. Wet filters are bad news.

Good luck to you.


--------------------
"General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: SteveRogers]
    #21855819 - 06/25/15 04:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Fanning doesn't matter with adequate FAE.  It's misting that's really important.

Also if you rolled those in verm after birthing them it doesn't look like quite enough stuck to them.  You want them looking like you just deep fried them in fish fry they're so covered in verm.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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Invisiblejbaby007
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: SteveRogers]
    #21855828 - 06/25/15 04:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Use the KISS method. Keep it simple stupid :dawerp:
Seriously though. Listen to Inocuole, and yeah it's like fucking 90 here, I'd hate to even think about turning on a heater. My ac be on blast almost 24/7 and my mushies are perfectly fine.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: jbaby007]
    #21855833 - 06/25/15 04:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The heater is fine if it's really that cold.  We don't know where he lives.  He could be growing these up on the North Pole for Santa to bring to all the good little girls and boys.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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InvisibleSteveRogers
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: Inocuole]
    #21855846 - 06/25/15 04:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

haha indeed. I hope I was good enough this year to get a stocking full of clone candidates. Either way get it away from the shelves with the FC and colonizing jars. Heat the room not the jars.


--------------------
"General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: SteveRogers]
    #21855862 - 06/25/15 04:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

just watch the damn brf tek video and do that.


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Invisiblejbaby007
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: Inocuole]
    #21855880 - 06/25/15 04:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I can even imagine being surrounded by snow year round. That would suck balls. If that is the case though, tell Santa to bring me the winning lottery numbers.


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InvisibleTheLoopIs

Registered: 05/29/13
Posts: 330
Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: jbaby007]
    #21858892 - 06/26/15 08:24 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks guys that helped A TON!!! Why is having the heater so close to jars dangerous? without the heater the temp is around 64-65:/.... Doesn't myc colonize much faster in the mid 70's-80s? Iv always had extremely slow colonization so I really don't want to let go of the heater unless u guys think I need to with good reason:P


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: TheLoopIs]
    #21859041 - 06/26/15 09:08 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

64-65 is fine when the alternative is giving bacteria and mold a better climate to work with.


--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: Inocuole]
    #21859055 - 06/26/15 09:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:whathesaid: also will seriously mess up the rh. You want barely any airflow. A sgfc is supposed to change with the air currents and pressures in the room.

I was on your previous thread in the contamination forum, and told you it was too dry and needed more misting/perlite work. I had no idea you had a heater next to the chamber. That is also another reason they're dry.


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Edited by Mad Season (06/26/15 01:36 PM)


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InvisibleTheLoopIs

Registered: 05/29/13
Posts: 330
Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: Mad Season]
    #21864320 - 06/27/15 01:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I followed all your advice especially yours mad season! And the cakes started producing lots of pins after one day
I am baffled by this info though…" you want barely any airflow. A SGFC is supposed to change with the air currents and pressures in the room"
Barely any airflow??? WH a? Can you explain the logic behind got more? I gave a good soak and fluffed up my perlite. Does anyone know the actual process going on with the airflow in a SCFG? Does air come from the bottom holes and rise to the top?How does it do tha, and why do we want that?for evaporation?


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: TheLoopIs]
    #21864326 - 06/27/15 01:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TheLoopIs said:
I followed all your advice especially yours mad season! And the cakes started producing lots of pins after one day
I am baffled by this info though…" you want barely any airflow. A SGFC is supposed to change with the air currents and pressures in the room"
Barely any airflow??? WH a? Can you explain the logic behind got more? I gave a good soak and fluffed up my perlite. Does anyone know the actual process going on with the airflow in a SCFG? Does air come from the bottom holes and rise to the top?How does it do tha, and why do we want that?for evaporation?



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19279962#19279962


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21865353 - 06/27/15 06:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

watch how close that heater is. any closer than like a foot and a half at a high temp setting and your grain jars will get dry on the side facing the heater and be left unable to fully colonize


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
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You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: filthyknees]
    #21865369 - 06/27/15 06:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Pardon? Unable to fully colonize? Is that just a typo cause you're stoned? Lol


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InvisibleTheLoopIs

Registered: 05/29/13
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: Mad Season]
    #21872919 - 06/29/15 11:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

maybe thats why my rye sub has been takin so long to colonize?:0 @mad season are u saying that filthyknees is incorrect?


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: TheLoopIs]
    #21872985 - 06/29/15 11:12 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Once you're in a sgfc it doesn't need to colonize. It should be fully colonized in fruiting.

Also why would it get dry on one side during colonization? It should be almost sealed up. Very little gas exchange will be occurring. Definitely not enough for one side to get dry


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: Mad Season]
    #21874445 - 06/29/15 05:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

@Mad it was said they would get dry if the heater was less than 2 feet away which is correct because a heated solid with liquids immersed will still evaporate through the top of the jar.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: Mad Season]
    #21874454 - 06/29/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I was stoned but I speak from experience. I'm not talking about sgfc's, I've never used one. Strictly saying grain jars will get dried out from excessive heat (too close to a heater) and imagine what happens when the grain gets DRY (the myc cannot colonize it). I figured if an air temp directly next to the jars read 75 degrees that my jars would colonize fast (like using an incubator), I was wrong, it was too close and the moisture content got thrown way off.

I've lost dozens of jars this way - not that it was contaminated - but why would I use a stalled 80% jar? Maybe I could have tapped the dry grain out then spawned but that is far from ideal. :facepalm:


all that to say watch how close the heater is from the jars especially on high heat settings - about a foot and a half


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: Inocuole]
    #21874477 - 06/29/15 05:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
@Mad it was said they would get dry if the heater was less than 2 feet away which is correct because a heated solid with liquids immersed will still evaporate through the top of the jar.




heat bombs love to dry out grain jars! and prob any kind of jar like brf


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: filthyknees]
    #21874494 - 06/29/15 05:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I see! :thumbup: yeah fair enough. I understand how heat and convection works lol. Still threw me off because I thought we were talking about already colonized jars, and them fruiting in a sgfc haha. Anyways we're all pretty much unanimous on one thing. Ditch the heater and keep all hobby stuff at least a few feet from any heat source. (Vents or heaters).


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InvisibleTheLoopIs

Registered: 05/29/13
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: Mad Season]
    #21879122 - 06/30/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

!!!! You guys are fuckin awesome. I moved heater further. My jars have stalled growth, I shook up half of them and kept other half the way they where.

Im gana try to save these jars...
I can think of 2 options...
1) incoluate sterile water into them
2) try to spawn them all to the same bulk sub (they are all around 80% colonized

Which one?


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: TheLoopIs]
    #21879126 - 06/30/15 05:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

never do either! just shake the jars as you did and hope for the best.


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InvisibleTheLoopIs

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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: spacechildo]
    #21879242 - 06/30/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: TheLoopIs]
    #21879256 - 06/30/15 05:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah neither of those are acceptable.  If a jar is in a place where it needs saving, you've already missed the opportunity to save it.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

Coir-ca-cola
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InvisibleTheLoopIs

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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: Inocuole]
    #21880523 - 06/30/15 10:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

where does this strong motto/approach of yours come from? I admire it.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: TheLoopIs]
    #21880657 - 06/30/15 10:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Mostly from wasting lots of time fiddling with things that ended up amounting to the same as if I had done nothing at all, if not worse.

But I mean, let's review some of the things you could encounter that would make you think a jar might need saving:


Stalling: The symptom of just about every problem that could be wrong with a jar, with the exception of
Visible contams: Game over, toss it.
Not enough Gas Exchange: I've never encountered this, most grain jars built to spec can breathe just fine.
Dryness:Could cause stalling, but only very rarely can you inject water and have it absorb into the grains the same as if the grains were prepared properly initially.  I've injected water before to try to get spores to germinate on dry grain.  It has worked but not reliably and is not effective in situations where there is already mycelium.
Too wet: Can't do anything about this one either.  If it stalls for this reason, it's either literally swimming in water or the real reason is actually
Bacteria:  This is what most people fail to recognize for the first 6-12 months of growing.  The main reason is because for the most part it's invisible.  This is also, in my experience, the most likely reason that you would have stalling. 

Mycelium can colonize some pretty fucking dry grain.  But bacteria is the number one culprit behind jars and tubs that mysteriously never reach fruition.  If you're lucky and the mycelium plays nice with the bacteria you can still get fruits but that's the exception, not the rule.

Now, in most situations, by the time that you have seen something that VISUALLY tells you that a jar might need to be "saved", by that point, the jar is already beyond redemption because you would have never thought it would need saving if everything was fine.  If something is even a little bit NOT fine, give it 5 days and it'll grow into a whole mess of not fine.  Cubensis mycelium can cover up some contaminations but it doesn't eliminate any of them, and they keep on growing regardless.

Might not have been the elaboration you were looking for but that's what you get.  :shrug:  Hope it helped.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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InvisibleTheLoopIs

Registered: 05/29/13
Posts: 330
Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: Inocuole]
    #21883112 - 07/01/15 02:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

dude helped  a ton <3 u the best!


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Offlinewerdfu16
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: TheLoopIs]
    #21890241 - 07/02/15 09:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.amazon.com/IMAGE®-Digital-Humidity-Control-Controller/dp/B009VY1ANM/ref=sr_1_3?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1435894010&sr=1-3

this device works like a charm!!! With a little electrical knowledge.....
I use cool mist 24/7 with ultrasonic cycling on and off with this device to keep humidity at 98,,got two cheap hygrometers also to double check proper rh...3 tier greenhouse with perlite at bottom,,,
A/c in summer room temp all other times....no issues at all...
And it has temperature input,,but I don't use it,,cant say if it works right on that end...
But for rh,,,,,,I love it.....


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: werdfu16]
    #21890302 - 07/02/15 09:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Not another hygrometer person :/.. what is optimal rh? I don't even believe there's such a thing. Op you seriously don't need it. Just useless numbers in the fruiting chamber


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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Offlinewerdfu16
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: Mad Season]
    #21891589 - 07/03/15 07:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Hey op
READ all of RR,s notes,,and  u will c mad is wrong,,,
Do a search for  his notes,,someone has them in a PDF file
all top flight.    (and by no means am i a top,flight grower).  and commercial growers use rh ,,temp lighting controls,,,,,,u can get away without them,,,but
proper humidity and fae are  some of the most important factors for fruiting shrooms,,,
SGFC work great and with proper misting and fanning u will be fine,,,but for a greenhouse  to be somewhat automated u need to regulate rh with timer or humidistat,,
U get better fruits ,,yields ,,etc by keeping proper rh ,,temps and fae,,THAT IS A FACT!!!!!

SO READ ALL of RR,s notes and  thousands of others regarding proper rh and other parameters and u will succeed in your grows as i and countless others have by reading and following the expert advice given out by RR and others...
Follow his advice and teks and  I guarantee u will  succeed!!!!!!
THANKS RR
5 succesfull grows and no major contaminations ...


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: werdfu16]
    #21891793 - 07/03/15 08:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I like RR, but in terms of green houses and hyrgrometers that's seriously outdated. Also 5 grows with no contaminations really doesn't help. Try 200+, had multiple major contaminations you were able to get past and make clean cultures still. To me that's experience.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18322939

This is a greenhouse tek in the last 2 years that was done by a trusted cultivator. This is a quote from it.

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said
3) Hygrotherm. It's a cheap humidity/temp controller intended for reptile terrariums.  Precision humidity control may have its perks, but the humidity I care about is at the surface of the substrate. It was a waste of $90.




Relative humidity has nothing to do with what we want. We are concerned about a high surface humidity (casing, good hydration, and misting are ways we achieve it). As well as a lower relative humidity to have evaporation 24/7. Thus it'll initiate pinning, as well as be ideal fruiting conditions.

Higher humidity is actually bad. It severely slows down evaporation. If you did any recent reading.. Within the last 5 years. You'll know what's far more important than anything else is to replace the water on the surface by misting when it needs it. Doing that it can fruit in open air.

Check out this thread. These are mushrooms fruited in 1% humidity. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21856836 obviously not ideal, and needed to get watered every so often, but it shows humidity isn't all that.

Here's more quotes from another trusted cultivator in the last month:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I somehow doubt that you can find a TC or veteran cultivator that uses such things. Learn what the fruits actually need not what some device thinks they need. It takes a little trial and error but its far better in the long run.



Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Quote:

Climbhigher said:
Don't worry about humidity.  If you built your SGFC to spec you will be fine.  And do not cover any of the holes up.  The sgfc needs the holes to work properly.



:whathesaid: covering holes in the chamber can actually lower the RH. Humidity is most important at the sub surface.  The roll in verm provides that. Fresh air is super important.  Don't tape up holes.




I already said it once but it seems it needs repeating.  High RH is only needed for a microclimate at the subs surface. Some of the best grows I ever saw were done in open air, no Fruiting chamber at all. Also while I agree that things look a little wet, an uber fine mist is not needed. These things get rained on in nature. I use a cheap mister from the dollar store myself.



Just use your eyes. Mist when needed. That's the secret to growing. Not numbers in an fc, which are simply useless. It could say 99% in there, and the cakes would look dry if I didn't mist them. It could say 50% but if the cakes look well hydrated I won't mist them. Seriously. It's not about humidity. It's about surface hydration and the evaporation of it.

Thus there's no "optimal" rh, except 99% surface humidity. I was just way too lazy to type this out for you yesterday..


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Edited by Mad Season (07/03/15 09:51 AM)


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Re: Setup recommendations please! [Re: Mad Season]
    #21892493 - 07/03/15 12:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:whathesaid:

if you're looking at shit even more than 3-5 years old take it with a grain of salt.

I could go find you over 100 times when RR directly contradicts himself about important things, doesn't take away the fact that he is one of the best cultivators out there, it just means nothing we do is set in stone and there's more than one way to do it. being around a while and not even as long as most of the people here you'll come to see that and be able to make judgments based on other things than dogma.


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